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I guess I agree that if it can't be done correctly, then it's best not to do it at all otherwise you just end up with a lovely mini game being a core part of the title. But I actually think the EL combat is a decent compromise. Your units can hit far above their weight if you play it right, as you can use positioning and support units to your full advantage. But if you out-tech or just use the appropriate unit types in the mid or late game, you can ease/remove the micro and just autocomplete them.
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Jul 17, 2018 00:23
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I've slowly realized that completely boring and/or 'economy wins' combat is killing a lot of TBS games I used to like quite a bit. TBS strategic AI is almost universally braindead, diplomacy generally blows, and if the combat is bland I'm left with a build queue simulator where I build a bunch of cities and click next item/next turn a lot, autoresolving to victory once the midgame econ snowball starts accumulating. I realize I'm generalizing, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the '4x' games I've enjoyed most in the last few years have been stuff like Warlock 1/2, Gladius, and Total Warhammer. Even Space Tyrant to some extent, and possibly Sorcerer King if it'd been made better. Meanwhile Endless Space 1/2, Endless Legend, Stellaris (ok realtime, but same general point about the combat/econ), and Civ6 I have way less playtime. AoW3 is a notable exception for having excellent tactical combat and half decent tac AI to boot. Frustrating too. I love bits and pieces of the rest - the Endless games have masterful UI design and wonderfully engaging worlds and factions.
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Jul 17, 2018 01:04
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If you liked Warlock 1, the new WH Gladius game uses its combat system. I'm trying to get into Endless Space 2, but it develops so slowly I get bored before anything happens.
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Jul 17, 2018 01:06
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The Deleter posted:Tactical combat in 4x games sucks because it is almost always a crappier second game hidden inside the first game, with less thought put into it. There's hardly any actual tactical thought required for most of them. Space 4X games suffer the most because it's hard to actually include things like terrain or meaningful manoeuvres in an infinite 3D space, so they don't bother. There's no excuse when something like Sorcerer King or Stardrive's ground combat doesn't even try and just puts everyone on a flat grid. I totally agree. Not to mention that a lot of the time, being "good" at the combat in 4x's often feels kind of like you're just exploiting the game - it tends to be less about meaningful payoffs and more just that fiddling gets you free strength out of nowhere.
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Jul 17, 2018 02:37
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I love me some EL and I am really looking forward to the expansion. I wonder if it is an exploratory expansion to fish for the viability of an EL2?
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Jul 17, 2018 04:17
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4x combat being kinda bad is why CK2 is still the best 4x because lol who cares about the combat when the rest of the game is so drat interesting and never devolves into build queue simulation.
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Jul 17, 2018 04:39
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As someone who auto-resolves battles all the time, I respect ES2's commitment to have auto-resolve be just as meaningful as watching the battle.
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Jul 17, 2018 06:14
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I love me some EL and I am really looking forward to the expansion. I wonder if it is an exploratory expansion to fish for the viability of an EL2? Probably yeah, drumming up interest and or setting up some story stuff. EL2 would probably need to be set on Auriga or somewhere very similar so they'll need to do some soft retconning I guess
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Jul 17, 2018 11:46
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Probably yeah, drumming up interest and or setting up some story stuff. EL2 would probably need to be set on Auriga or somewhere very similar so they'll need to do some soft retconning I guess Could be that they are hiding underground and will re-emerge in the future post-ES2 and some Endless Technology has rejuvinated the planet (Sowers?!). This expansion could offer an alternate ending state where you go DEEPER to survive.
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Jul 17, 2018 12:52
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I mean more from a "If we make this EL expansion and no one buys it, we probably should not invest in EL2", but those are also good points. If it is something about Inferno I could see it being their attempt to stop the Ice Age from happening in the first place, or something.
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Jul 17, 2018 13:30
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I mean more from a "If we make this EL expansion and no one buys it, we probably should not invest in EL2", but those are also good points. I am fairly sure this is a way to drum up hype for a soon to be announced EL2. They are pretty committed to the Endless universe and it seems like a logical next step for them to go with. Preventing the freezing over of Auriga is an interesting notion though. I wonder how it would fit in mechanically, if you were the Allayi and the winters were prevented, you would be screwed.
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Jul 17, 2018 13:33
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mitochondritom posted:I am fairly sure this is a way to drum up hype for a soon to be announced EL2. They are pretty committed to the Endless universe and it seems like a logical next step for them to go with.
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Jul 17, 2018 13:40
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I'd like to see an RPG released in the Endless Legend setting. At least a tabletop RPG sourcebook/campaign or something.
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Jul 17, 2018 13:41
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Fair enough. I dont know the numbers on EL and its expansions or how much building EL2 would cost so that was just a shot in the dark. I think I read that Endless Legend was well over a million copies sold. They also became part of SEGA so I guess they have a decent financial backing to do stuff and it always seems like sequels are the safer bet, especially with 4x games.
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Jul 17, 2018 14:00
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Yeah, I think once you make a successful 4x game, you stay in that franchise and never leave. It's particularly hard to pull me away from the ones I like and invest time learning a new one to the degree that I can fully enjoy it. Have to keep those repeat customers with such a high learning curve.
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Jul 17, 2018 14:05
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Of course what I really want is Dungeon of the Endless II.
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Jul 17, 2018 14:35
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Lunsku posted:Of course what I really want is Dungeon of the Endless II. I just want to be able to listen to that ost for the first time again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEU04KxQpuw
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Jul 17, 2018 14:48
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Lunsku posted:Of course what I really want is Dungeon of the Endless II. Same. It's just a good little game. Hard as hell though
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Jul 17, 2018 14:53
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but the difficulty options are easy or too easy though??
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Jul 17, 2018 14:55
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In Endless Space 2, is there any way to see a list of minor factions and your relationship to them and other related info? Can't seem to find that information unless I hunt and peck for the actual star systems they live in.
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Jul 21, 2018 15:34
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While I'm on ES2 questions: is there a mod or something that makes the playing field more visible? About 2-30 turns in, I have trouble distinguishing unexplored territory that I need to send probes into from background noise. Especially when near the galactic core.
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Jul 21, 2018 20:57
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Megazver posted:I'd like to see an RPG released in the Endless Legend setting. At least a tabletop RPG sourcebook/campaign or something. Hell, same.
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Jul 21, 2018 21:29
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Megazver posted:I'd like to see an RPG released in the Endless Legend setting. At least a tabletop RPG sourcebook/campaign or something. ZearothK posted:Hell, same. Some dude is working on something like this over on Amplitude's forums. Not certain how confident I am in it but Amplitude gave it the ok so I guess we'll see.
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Jul 21, 2018 23:28
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Generic Octopus posted:Some dude is working on something like this over on Amplitude's forums. Not certain how confident I am in it but Amplitude gave it the ok so I guess we'll see. That's really cool, thanks for sharing! Wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
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Jul 22, 2018 16:30
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I feel like Legend as a setting would be more interesting than Space, really. Honestly, there isn't much unique or interesting in Space; it's just an original sci fi setting, of which we have loads (Mass Effect, Star Trek, etc.). While Legend is a very neat blend of low technology and magic, with high technology and advanced poo poo mixed in, almost like Numenara.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:53
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The whole idea of a world suffused with nanomachines whose inhabitants don't understand them (beyond niche uses) and use them as money is very cool.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:32
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Especially considering that "magic" is just manipulation of said nano machines. loving Viking people with crossbows made from advanced modern alloys, and shields with futuristic stripe designs on them, fighting a cult of marionettes possesed by an ancient precursor race alien is dope af Edit: plus, as an argument for Legend as the setting, it is mechanically built with hero units who level up and have gear. It would be cool if whatever system this cat created for the setting involved gear working in a similar way as Legend, providing levels of bonuses that you would mix and match, almost like monster hunter. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 21:35
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:
As someone pointed out in this tread a while ago, Dust makes Endless Legend (and Space) probably the only 4x game where the buyout mechanic for construction actually makes sense, because the sack of cash you're throwing at the project is actually a sack of magic/programmable nanomachines. Sandwich Anarchist posted:
The Cult is much cooler than that. The Queen is not an Endless, she's an AI they callously left behind without purpose when they transcended. Enraged at this abandonment, she started the Cult as a religious order whose sole, fanatical purpose is not worshiping the Endless, but hunting them down and making them pay. So basically the entire faction is a psychotic ex trying to find their former lover's new apartment and set it on fire.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:14
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Legends tighter scope gives it much better story telling potential. I'd kill for a good EL board game with great production values. Like Scythe / Twilight Imperium levels.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:56
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Avasculous posted:As someone pointed out in this tread a while ago, Dust makes Endless Legend (and Space) probably the only 4x game where the buyout mechanic for construction actually makes sense, because the sack of cash you're throwing at the project is actually a sack of magic/programmable nanomachines. I might've been the one who pointed it out, if not then we had the same idea. Yeah. It's a good one really. quote:
Yeah, the Queen is implied to be some sort of powerful AI that was constructed to last forever, and is *so* well built she can't even self-terminate because she's indestructible, so she's out to blow up the universe. A psychic computer, too, as its tantrums have been known to mentally scar people. A lot of the Cult members aren't robots, but since they wear armor that makes them look just like the robots it gets ambiguous. That's one of the big reasons they tear apart towns and cities they conquer. They really want to kill as much as they can, leaving only scattered villages under their control for resource gathering. The Necrophages may be the primary antagonists in most people's stories but the Cult is Sephiroth to their Shinra. I like how the Mawgar (I keep spelling it wrong) have psychic powers too, but theirs work differently both in-universe and gameplay-wise. Instead of indoctrinating people into permanent servants they seem to forcibly take control of someone's body to give them specific commands, and they UN-pacify villages just to sow chaos. Nasty creatures.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:40
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Avasculous posted:The Cult is much cooler than that. I adopted a "kill on sight" approach to the Cult pretty quickly... They really are a great antagonist for a 4X, aren't they. They're genuinely creepy, and they send out lots of nice squishy Preacher stacks to kill, and their actual armies are disgustingly powerful (aaghh, I learnt to dread that *clicking* noise from their archers.) Plus, for us RP types, you have the moral dilemma of whether or not to hire their stupidly strong heroes.
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Jul 23, 2018 09:42
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I feel like Legend as a setting would be more interesting than Space, really. Honestly, there isn't much unique or interesting in Space; it's just an original sci fi setting, of which we have loads (Mass Effect, Star Trek, etc.). While Legend is a very neat blend of low technology and magic, with high technology and advanced poo poo mixed in, almost like Numenara. I think there's a lot interesting in the race concepts and the mini-stories that come from them. I like the Unfallen and their whole sentience being built around the dual role of fire in plant growth especially. Legend does have a lot stronger core story and presentation to it, thanks to being on a planet and all. It's a lot easier to build something for audiences to wrap their head around since that's also where we live.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:51
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Defiance Industries posted:I think there's a lot interesting in the race concepts and the mini-stories that come from them. I like the Unfallen and their whole sentience being built around the dual role of fire in plant growth especially. Legend does have a lot stronger core story and presentation to it, thanks to being on a planet and all. It's a lot easier to build something for audiences to wrap their head around since that's also where we live. Well sure, Space has some awesome interesting stuff, but without a focus on smaller scale personal narrative, it's hard to imagine a fleshed out table top setting coming from it. The game is focused on such macro things like large scale interplanetary population control in the trillions, and entire fleets of ships crewed by large nameless crews. Even ground troops are a resource number. Legend is much more focused on narrative, as you said, with more being put into smaller scale things. Space feels detached and dead compared to Legend for this reason.
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Jul 24, 2018 02:16
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Well sure, Space has some awesome interesting stuff, but without a focus on smaller scale personal narrative, it's hard to imagine a fleshed out table top setting coming from it. The game is focused on such macro things like large scale interplanetary population control in the trillions, and entire fleets of ships crewed by large nameless crews. Even ground troops are a resource number. I love the ES2 universe, but it is hard to think of a narrative or character that *wouldn't* fit into it, somewhere. That'd make it a tough choice for a focused RPG or board game.
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Jul 25, 2018 04:39
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Playing as Vaulters on EL in the RPG and a Craver nest fleet hits the planet. Yeaaaah. Any news on the new expansion?
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Jul 26, 2018 14:14
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Flipswitch posted:Playing as Vaulters on EL in the RPG and a Craver nest fleet hits the planet. Yeaaaah. I think a trailer and information is going to be released this evening. I got a tweet from them about a Twitch stream at 4.30 pm GMT
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Jul 26, 2018 14:19
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mitochondritom posted:I think a trailer and information is going to be released this evening. I got a tweet from them about a Twitch stream at 4.30 pm GMT
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Jul 26, 2018 14:31
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mitochondritom posted:I think a trailer and information is going to be released this evening. I got a tweet from them about a Twitch stream at 4.30 pm GMT
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Jul 26, 2018 14:53
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Please post a link here if you get a chance, I will be busy at work and not needing to search for it would be really nice. Twitch link. Should be up in about half an hour.
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Jul 26, 2018 14:56
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Here you go my dudes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFxGrgsZo8c quote:Meet the new guys in town. Amplitude blog post about Inferno https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qe05XP5VFY Amplitude blog about Supremacy quote:The Hissho are back, ready to kick rear end and take names! quote:This will be available next week on August 2nd. mitochondritom fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 15:54
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