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Even the argument that the Legion enhances security within its own territories gets weaker under closer inspection. If that security is purchased with routine rapes and massacres perpetrated by a state that all but requires constant war with its neighbors and has no stable lines of succession, how much safer has the wasteland really gotten? Really, it's just a Fallout version of the Italian fascists "making the trains run on time." (Thing is, they didn't. You just got beaten up if you complained about it.)
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Jul 22, 2018 21:14
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You can replace the legion with orks, basically. Or super mutants. Except even the super mutants in FNV have more nuance than the legion does.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:18
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SwitchbladeKult posted:Glad to hear you are having fun! While I agree with the criticism that Power Armor in FO4 is a bit too common there is no denying it is incredibly fun to use. This is especially true if you find any gun that is explosive, like the Spray n Pray, or a random legendary gun such as a Western Revolver or Combat Shotgun
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Jul 22, 2018 21:46
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Hell if you want a security state which routinely abuses its own citizens and wages constant war on the outside world, you can go a lot more recent than Mussolini
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Jul 22, 2018 21:51
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Reveilled posted:Something Awful has a front page Haha, oh yeah, i forgot they did still kinda weird sfuff like that
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Jul 22, 2018 22:02
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OwlFancier posted:Caesar is a dumb romeaboo
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Jul 22, 2018 22:09
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Internet Wizard posted:I was pretty down on the Legion but now that I realize it's just a few rape camps I'm a huge fan! Fallout 1-76: Not just rape camps and slaves
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Jul 22, 2018 22:15
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Jul 22, 2018 22:30
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Woe to any who reads this but skimming it the line "in the last game I'm trying to help my father create clean water but in this one I'm working for a pimp to help people gently caress robots" jumped out at me as a ringing endorsement of FNV but he seemed not to enjoy it 
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Jul 22, 2018 22:50
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You... can join the Followers Of The Apocalypse
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Jul 22, 2018 22:51
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Not only that but the followers have some of the best roleplaying quests in the game.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:55
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I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that someone takes issue with the game tracking how the legion feels about you. The idea that the game doesn't start out with the primarily antagonistic faction being nonsensically aware of you and wanting you dead, and instead reacts to how you choose to play is somehow a negative in his view?
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Jul 22, 2018 23:19
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As far as I can tell he doesn't like the fact that the game informs you that they don't like you shooting them up.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:22
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OwlFancier posted:As far as I can tell he doesn't like the fact that the game informs you that they don't like you shooting them up. Well I mean it is kind of redundant to find out I'm vilified by the Powder Gangers when I'm standing in the middle of the prison admin building surrounded by their corpses.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:27
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This guy is such a loving tool.  "I walked into the town bar and decided the guy talking to the bar tender looked kind of shifty, so I shot him and, can you believe it, the town got mad at me!?" (Also, you don't get vilified by Goodsprings for killing Joe Cobb unless you friendly fire a townie, so that's telling, too.)
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Jul 22, 2018 23:27
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how do i fix aiming with a controller moving slow as molasses in fo4? at first i was getting double inputs for completely different buttons, so i disabled the generic controller support in steam, but now i get all keyboard button prompts, my controller works fine other than basically not being able to turn though. there's nothing in the settings for sensitivity it seems.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:59
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StandardVC10 posted:Well I mean it is kind of redundant to find out I'm vilified by the Powder Gangers when I'm standing in the middle of the prison admin building surrounded by their corpses. It isn't if you don't know about the rep system, which he also seemed to be surprised at the existence at. Also I'm pretty drat sure that an explicit way to get into the bunker is to listen to one of the BoS scout team holotapes. He simultaneously complains that the game uses quests but also spectacularly fails to be able to do any of the stuff that it doesn't use quests for, such as the BoS stuff, or the fact that the C finder has POSEIDON ENERGY written on it which might give you a loving hint. He even finds the plant! But he's so rock stupid that he apparently a: doesn't realise that fantastic is an idiot and b: doesn't find any of the stuff about the satellite. Is fantastic even a member of the followers or is he just a random bum? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 00:05
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this is excellent bait especially when the dude is contradicting himself every other paragraph. TexMexFoodbaby fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 00:18
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Wolfsheim posted:Tip if you missed it; climb to the very top of the car factory if you want to find an item that makes power armor even better. And then jump off, because jumping off large heights in power armor is one of the best things about wearing it. Yes, I found it, thanks. I try to be thorough with my searches after everything has stopped trying to murder me. I know Elder Scrolls and Fallout games tend to have awesome stuff hidden away in the oddest places. (Fin Gleam in Oblivion, anyone?)
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Jul 23, 2018 00:19
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TexMexFoodbaby posted:this is excellent bait It's the same poo poo with the rehashed trollbro-talking-point criticism of Fallout 4.
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Jul 23, 2018 03:30
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StandardVC10 posted:But this is transparently absurd. Our first encounter with the Legion is them literally murdering an entire town (an explicitly non-aligned town in the current conflict, too; Vulpes notes that they're equally happy to serve NCR, Powder Gangers, and Legion.) Moreover in Honest Hearts we see that plenty of tribals don't view brutality as normal. Agreed. I think that there was a good story to tell about the Legion v NCR as being about accepting the realities of a new era rather than clinging to the ways of the old world. And if the Legion was less chaotically violent, and if the NCR was having a more difficult time of maintaining order, then perhaps it would have been a more compelling story. But as it was, the Legion seems to have more issues with maintaining order than the NCR ever has. They don't seem to offer much beyond lunatic mayhem. In truth, Caesar's Legion has a lot more in common with lunatic barbarians than historical Rome. Meanwhile the NCR seems to be pretty good at incorporating new groups and virtuously improving things for everyone. As a result it became more of a stark morality tale of good versus evil rather than a philosophical one exploring authoritarianism v. egalitarianism, or building a lasting peace with the point of a sword.
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Jul 23, 2018 04:29
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Kaal posted:... lunatic barbarians than historical Rome. please, tell me more about these lunatic barbarians and your wonderful Rome that didn't have a series of deranged Emperors bent on expanding an Empire built on misogyny and slavery through violence. (Caesar is an amalgam of several Roman leaders, most notably the combination of Marcus Aurelius and his son, Commodus). Not much in common with the "barbarians" of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa that Rome would have dealt with though.
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Jul 23, 2018 05:26
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Kaal posted:As a result it became more of a stark morality tale of good versus evil rather than a philosophical one exploring authoritarianism v. egalitarianism, or building a lasting peace with the point of a sword. Or is it just making a different philosophical point? If anything, the Legion failing to live up to even its own rationalizations is quite realistic, and an ironic counterpoint to the NCR falling short of the ideals of a democracy.
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Jul 23, 2018 05:49
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kind of prefer the Institute's banality of evil to the Legion's ISIS level evil but the latter works cause the legion wasn't intended to be shades of gray evil but either are both thematically fine to utilize like i don't think 2 or 3 is weaker cause no one (sane) would think "wow the enclave had good ideas after all" but i guess at least in NV you've got the option to join along if you want to (maybe that's a thing in broken steel which i never finished idk) quote:Agreed. I think that there was a good story to tell about the Legion v NCR as being about accepting the realities of a new era rather than clinging to the ways of the old world. And if the Legion was less chaotically violent, and if the NCR was having a more difficult time of maintaining order, then perhaps it would have been a more compelling story. But as it was, the Legion seems to have more issues with maintaining order than the NCR ever has. They don't seem to offer much beyond lunatic mayhem. In truth, Caesar's Legion has a lot more in common with lunatic barbarians than historical Rome. Meanwhile the NCR seems to be pretty good at incorporating new groups and virtuously improving things for everyone. As a result it became more of a stark morality tale of good versus evil rather than a philosophical one exploring authoritarianism v. egalitarianism, or building a lasting peace with the point of a sword. yeah there's not really much a choice between NCR vs Legion, one is a flawed post-war democracy that's roughly egalitarian and facing the corruption any organizational behavior will encounter versus a rape murder kill personality cult that loooooves death and doesnt really have any promise to the wasteland. NCR has a hosed up past but those scars run deep in those that participated in them, and where they took place, while the legion is like hell yeah we just genocided multiple settlements and dont care NCR vs House vs Independent is much more an interesting debate besides please find yourself next in line against the wall if you want to support a dude like House who obv got to go imo
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Jul 23, 2018 07:32
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Bombing Lyons' Brotherhood at the end of Broken Steel is just a "for the lulz" option on behest of the protagonist.
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Jul 23, 2018 09:45
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Berke Negri posted:kind of prefer the Institute's banality of evil to the Legion's ISIS level evil but the latter works cause the legion wasn't intended to be shades of gray evil but either are both thematically fine to utilize My problem with the institute wasn't how they acted, it was that the game just decides to never allow you to bring it up. In New Vegas if you don't like House, you can complain to him and he'll defend himself, and maybe you'll buy his justification or maybe you wont, but it's at least an option to talk about. Fallout 4? It usually even doesn't let you talk to the people about that. I usually can't even talk to the institute about at least considering the synths might be conscious, or the brotherhood or railroad about trying negotiation, or things like that. Or if I do, it's a half hearted explanation that the PC doesn't even get the option to disagree with. I found the morality of FO4 interesting on the surface but was repeatedly frustrated that the game's way of adding moral ambiguity was apparently to have the protagonist stick his fingers in his ears and refuse to think about things. New Vegas, love it or hate it, definitely didn't have "lack of dialog options" as a sin.
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Jul 23, 2018 10:14
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The Institute's "banality of evil" would be interesting fi there was anything underpinning it, an ideology or practical need for their wretched actions. But no, they just... kinda do things. And you're never allowed to ask why.
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Jul 23, 2018 10:53
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Did I miss the conversation where someone said playing as the legion means you have lovely mental health and then someone decided to bring rapelay into it as if its anywhere close to loving fallout. What the gently caress happened to this thread and why are there so many bad opinions. I for one can't possibly play as a bad guy in videogames because i'm morally superior btw. Why would anyone try an evil playthrough? I much prefer the constant "i am the hero" storylines that are 99% of the stories told nowadays. gently caress variety, I say!
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Jul 23, 2018 12:00
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Perfect avatar/post combo.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:46
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See I feel like this dude ignores what's so great about New Vegas which is the little prescribed loop you make to get to Vegas. Like the "Just wander" around thing is silly because the game actually provides you with this mini-story arc at the start of the game in the form of the prison outbreak. Goodsprings, Primm, and the prison itself are all designed around the convicts and the Powder Gangers. And it's a storyline that you can legitimately finish. You can help defend Goodsprings in a climatic fight or betray the town, restore order to Goodsprings, and help get back the prison before you ever meet the Legion. And then you come to Nipton. It's smart to build up the Powder Gangers plotline and isolate it because it really accentuates your probable first encounter with the Legion. When you first meet the Legion, the first thing you've seen them do is decimate the bad guys you were tiptoeing around and fighting at the start of the game. There is a level of thought and plotting in New Vegas beyond just general world building. I know some people just ran north to Vegas, but for me, by the time I finally got to Vegas, it felt like I had gone on a journey.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:56
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Samuel Clemens posted:Perfect avatar/post combo. I do try. Unless someones changed it from the tank thing again, i dunno i've had avatars turned off for a while. E: I just read that entire effortpost from the guy who didn't like new vegas and honestly I feel like his opinion is actually worse than every hot take in this thread combined so I take it back. dogstile fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 13:10
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It's really weird to me that Fallout 4 takes place in Boston where I live, and Fallour 76 takes place in West Virginia where I'm from.
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Jul 23, 2018 13:21
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TheAnomaly posted:please, tell me more about these lunatic barbarians and your wonderful Rome that didn't have a series of deranged Emperors bent on expanding an Empire built on misogyny and slavery through violence. (Caesar is an amalgam of several Roman leaders, most notably the combination of Marcus Aurelius and his son, Commodus). Not much in common with the "barbarians" of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa that Rome would have dealt with though. I don't think he was making a direct comparison to the exact Germanic tribes that the Romans called barbarians, but the actual Roman Empire was worlds ahead of Caesar's Legion. While they may have shared similar beliefs in misogyny and slavery, they actually had working infrastructure, a complex bureaucracy with different levels of representation, and either a clear line of succession or a stable enough government that a succession crisis wouldn't cause the entire empire to collapse because the personal wills of the emperor didn't make the carts run on time. Even the "fall of Rome" was more of a gradual reworking of the government that your average peasant wouldn't really notice happening.
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Jul 23, 2018 13:56
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I guess I don't really get the criticism of "once you've done all the quests there's no reason to go back". Like... yeah, isn't that the case in all RPGs? Quests are what the game is about right? What reason is there to go back to Megaton or (wracks brain trying to think of another Fallout 3 town) Girdershade?
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Jul 23, 2018 13:59
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Gameko posted:It's really weird to me that Fallout 4 takes place in Boston where I live, and Fallour 76 takes place in West Virginia where I'm from. There is a BoS NPC in 3 with my name who is stationed very close to where I was living at the time. The legion is bad, and wrong. We all kinda get it. What really sucks tho? The NCR. They constantly come up with reasons why they cant help you. It's always a lack of ammo, paperwork, or some such bullshit. Considering they have a higher body count in game by a longshot compared to every other faction, I would have expected more from them. The vast majority of side quests involve helping them out too. I know NV was limited by a lot of factors, but if there is something to gripe about regarding Obsidian it's that instead of spreading things out between legion and NCR they dumped it all into one side. Legion are obviously badguys. Even badguys have their reasons to to bad guy stuff. But the NCR wasnt just a lovely good guy because of their prewar values; they stood around and did gently caress all after the Hoover drat fight. They dont help against the powder gangers for example even tho a better armed and trained unit of them are like a block away.
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Jul 23, 2018 14:00
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2house2fly posted:I guess I don't really get the criticism of "once you've done all the quests there's no reason to go back". Like... yeah, isn't that the case in all RPGs? Quests are what the game is about right? What reason is there to go back to Megaton or (wracks brain trying to think of another Fallout 3 town) Girdershade? You have to go say hello to Moira every now and again, you know.
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Jul 23, 2018 14:12
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2house2fly posted:I guess I don't really get the criticism of "once you've done all the quests there's no reason to go back". Like... yeah, isn't that the case in all RPGs? Quests are what the game is about right? What reason is there to go back to Megaton or (wracks brain trying to think of another Fallout 3 town) Girdershade?
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Jul 23, 2018 14:40
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Have we discussed yet just how stupid Caesar is for insisting that a true warrior fights using Did the 200+ years of stasis fry House's brain? His plan is almost as dumb as Caesar's. He thinks that breaking his treaty with the NCR and forcing them to sign a new treaty at gunpoint will result in Kimball getting voted out of office and the NCR citizens just paying the extortion money for the water and electricity on top of continuing to frequent Vegas when things "calm down"? The minute General Oliver gets back to California (dead or alive) and people find out what happened the entire NCR is going to come down on Vegas. House's army of upgraded securitrons isn't going to be able to protect Vegas from an entire nation-state. If the NCR was able to defeat several squads of BoS paladins armed with Gatling lasers, Gauss rifles and T-51 Power Armor using basic ballistic weapons and explosives then I think they would be able to handle a few thousand securitrons if they put their minds to it.
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Jul 23, 2018 15:48
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SwitchbladeKult posted:Did the 200+ years of stasis fry House's brain? His plan is almost as dumb as Caesar's. He thinks that breaking his treaty with the NCR and forcing them to sign a new treaty at gunpoint will result in Kimball getting voted out of office and the NCR citizens just paying the extortion money for the water and electricity on top of continuing to frequent Vegas when things "calm down"? The minute General Oliver gets back to California (dead or alive) and people find out what happened the entire NCR is going to come down on Vegas. House's army of upgraded securitrons isn't going to be able to protect Vegas from an entire nation-state. If the NCR was able to defeat several squads of BoS paladins armed with Gatling lasers, Gauss rifles and T-51 Power Armor using basic ballistic weapons and explosives then I think they would be able to handle a few thousand securitrons if they put their minds to it. Kimball came, saw, and then hosed everything up repeatedly for years. His stupid PR stunt at the dam might as well be a desperate attempt to ensure the public that the lights coming from the kitchen are merely Aurora Borealis. If the second battle of Hoover Dam ended up being won by some dumbass in a party hat who showed up out of nowhere with an army of killer robots, the public would Father Wendigo fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 16:43
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2house2fly posted:I guess I don't really get the criticism of "once you've done all the quests there's no reason to go back". Like... yeah, isn't that the case in all RPGs? Quests are what the game is about right? What reason is there to go back to Megaton or (wracks brain trying to think of another Fallout 3 town) Girdershade? Maybe that's why you don't like Fallout 4 because it's about building a network of small sustainable farming communities and hauling garbage.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:53
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