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Father Wendigo posted:Kimball came, saw, and then hosed everything up repeatedly for years. His stupid PR stunt at the dam might as well be a desperate attempt to ensure the public that the lights coming from the kitchen are merely Aurora Borealis. If the second battle of Hoover Dam ended up being won by some dumbass in a party hat who showed up out of nowhere with an army of killer robots, the public would House's plan is pretty much to make it his "Mission Accomplished" moment.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:53
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Cyberpunkey Monkey posted:Maybe that's why you don't like Fallout 4 because it's about building a network of small sustainable farming communities and hauling garbage. Also there's that bug where nothing in your workshop counted towards the settlement and the weird hard caps on scrap. Lots of super questionable decisions. On the plus side I got to spend a lot of time building a power armour museum when the game came out so that was cool. 8one6 posted:Remember to take the fusion core out of the armor when you're not using it. NPCs (especially your settlers) will jump into available power armor during a fight if it has a fusion core installed and then abandon it wherever the gently caress they are when the fight ends and it can be a bitch finding it again as the game only shows you the marker for the last set you personally wore. Wait they drop out of it after? gently caress, that's kinda lovely. A settlement of people in power armour would be cool. dogstile fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 16:57
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The Zombie Guy posted:Yes, I found it, thanks. I try to be thorough with my searches after everything has stopped trying to murder me. I know Elder Scrolls and Fallout games tend to have awesome stuff hidden away in the oddest places. (Fin Gleam in Oblivion, anyone?) Remember to take the fusion core out of the armor when you're not using it. NPCs (especially your settlers) will jump into available power armor during a fight if it has a fusion core installed and then abandon it wherever the gently caress they are when the fight ends and it can be a bitch finding it again as the game only shows you the marker for the last set you personally wore.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:05
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Cyberpunkey Monkey posted:Maybe that's why you don't like Fallout 4 because it's about building a network of small sustainable farming communities and hauling garbage. There's no reason to actually do any of that either.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:07
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Avalerion posted:There's no reason to actually do any of that either. It's fun
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Jul 23, 2018 17:10
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SwitchbladeKult posted:Have we discussed yet just how stupid Caesar is for insisting that a true warrior fights using I mean, in a post-apocalyptic world where there's shittons of sand and grit everywhere and guns are likely to jam after a few clips it makes sense to train your dudes in close quarters combat, I think Caesar just forgot that not all of his troops are Kenshiro.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:14
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Avalerion posted:There's no reason to actually do any of that either. All video games are meaningless diversions. Get over it!
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Jul 23, 2018 17:16
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RBA Starblade posted:It's fun Yea, but I wouldn't argue that's what the game is about - playing falloutcraft is completely optional, I think a lot of us just slapped down some beds in goodspring and called it a day. 
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Jul 23, 2018 17:16
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Depended on the settlement tbh. If it wasn't a place that was particularly interesting to build on i'd just slap down some beds and food. If it was interesting i'd build a proper little settlement. The drive in is particularly good.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:35
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Bremen posted:My problem with the institute wasn't how they acted, it was that the game just decides to never allow you to bring it up. In New Vegas if you don't like House, you can complain to him and he'll defend himself, and maybe you'll buy his justification or maybe you wont, but it's at least an option to talk about. Fallout 4? It usually even doesn't let you talk to the people about that. I usually can't even talk to the institute about at least considering the synths might be conscious, or the brotherhood or railroad about trying negotiation, or things like that. Or if I do, it's a half hearted explanation that the PC doesn't even get the option to disagree with. I found the morality of FO4 interesting on the surface but was repeatedly frustrated that the game's way of adding moral ambiguity was apparently to have the protagonist stick his fingers in his ears and refuse to think about things. I think the crowning moment in this regard is at the very end where you confront your son as he is dying in bed and you're walking over his soon-to-be corpse to get the codes you need to utterly annihilate his life's work, he asks you "under what righteous pretense have you justified this atrocity?" This is the chance for you to put your motivations into words. Why did you choose the allies you did? What moral force drove you to betray your own son? Are synths people? Is pre-war tech dangerous? Were the abductions and experiments too morally repugnant for you to stomach? This is both an excellent story moment and a great roleplaying opportunity. ...Aaaaand your choices are "there's no other way", "I just want to watch this place burn", "the greater good" and "are you seriously surprised you have enemies?", each equating to a one sentence response. What a way to squander the narrative climax of your game.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:35
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blowing up the prydwen with deacon and tinker tom did own tho imo
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Jul 23, 2018 17:37
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Berke Negri posted:blowing up the prydwen with deacon and tinker tom did own tho imo 100% best part of Fallout 4 yes
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Jul 23, 2018 17:41
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But there's a cat on board...
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Jul 23, 2018 17:44
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that cat knew what it signed up for.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:45
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Also cats suck, get a dog, morons.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:47
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Avalerion posted:But there's a cat on board... I sided with the Institute at one point (only one playthrough but you can do most of the game world before the branch point) because Deacon straight blasted the cat on the Prydwen.
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Jul 23, 2018 17:52
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The cat was a synth anyway
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Jul 23, 2018 18:00
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SwitchbladeKult posted:Have we discussed yet just how stupid Caesar is for insisting that a true warrior fights using I believe the Legion, uhh, credo is that recruits are handed a machete or a spear and told 'git gud lol' and if they survive long enough they're promoted and handed a gun or at least a nicer spear. This is why Legion hit squads will carry high-end firearms. quote:Did the 200+ years of stasis fry House's brain? His plan is almost as dumb as Caesar's. He thinks that breaking his treaty with the NCR and forcing them to sign a new treaty at gunpoint will result in Kimball getting voted out of office and the NCR citizens just paying the extortion money for the water and electricity on top of continuing to frequent Vegas when things "calm down"? The minute General Oliver gets back to California (dead or alive) and people find out what happened the entire NCR is going to come down on Vegas. House's army of upgraded securitrons isn't going to be able to protect Vegas from an entire nation-state. If the NCR was able to defeat several squads of BoS paladins armed with Gatling lasers, Gauss rifles and T-51 Power Armor using basic ballistic weapons and explosives then I think they would be able to handle a few thousand securitrons if they put their minds to it. House's plan is, in the short term, to survive, and while you can debate the merits of his long-term technotopian dreams he isn't really breaking the treaty so much as he's defending himself from the NCR that was already planning on murdering him (see: the NCR route where you're told to go murder him). Making a war so unpopular and expensive that the NCR public wants to stop spending money on it is probably his only chance at survival.
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Jul 23, 2018 18:01
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Vinylshadow posted:The cat was a synth anyway So?
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Jul 23, 2018 18:04
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Wolfsheim posted:I believe the Legion, uhh, credo is that recruits are handed a machete or a spear and told 'git gud lol' and if they survive long enough they're promoted and handed a gun or at least a nicer spear. This is why Legion hit squads will carry high-end firearms. Someone in the Legion also specifically explains that they mostly stick to simpler firearms (breach load or bolt action, mostly, along with some lever action weapons) because they are less complicated to maintain.
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Jul 23, 2018 18:10
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house saying cats were extinct was really dumb so im glad they didnt stick with that cause there's not really any basis to it
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Jul 23, 2018 18:12
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Wolfsheim posted:I believe the Legion, uhh, credo is that recruits are handed a machete or a spear and told 'git gud lol' and if they survive long enough they're promoted and handed a gun or at least a nicer spear. This is why Legion hit squads will carry high-end firearms. The Legion doesn't mind using technology for its own ends, but they believe that you shouldn't use it as a crutch and that everyone must prove that they can survive without it before they can be trusted to use it. Recruits get lawnmower blade machetes and primitive healing powder, but experienced veterans are packing plasma guns and Caesar is using the best pre-war medical technology money can buy.
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Jul 23, 2018 18:12
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Berke Negri posted:house saying cats were extinct was really dumb so im glad they didnt stick with that cause there's not really any basis to it A ghoul mentioned that they were extinct in 2; I think that's the only reason House comments on it.
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Jul 23, 2018 18:17
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Father Wendigo posted:Kimball's popularity is already in the shitter when the game begins. The campaign to secure Hoover Dam has been stalemated by tribals in sports equipment wielding pointy sticks and lawnmower blades for almost half a decade, and mismanagement is so rife that they kept reassigning troops off guard duty at the NCRCF until the prisoners managed to take the facility with nothing but a crate of dynamite and sheer numbers. Speaking of those prisoners, the railroad that promised to allow commerce to safely traverse Nevada and was to be built with prison labor is effectively on hiatus for the foreseeable future. I would totally agree with all of that if the Courier chose the Independent Vegas ending. There is no recovering from the PR nightmare of losing years of blood and treasure to a pissed off mailman. While House's plan is to give Kimball a "Mission Accomplished" moment I feel it would turn into a Pearl Harbor moment instead. Remember, House's plan is to let the NCR win the battle for Hoover Dam then stab them in the back, stealing it out from under them. Any savy politician could capitalize from House's plan even if it isn't Kimball. The narrative is clear: the good and smart NCR defeated the Legion only to be betrayed by their friend and ally Robert House in the 11th hour! At the very least the NCR would refuse to let it's citizens go to New Vegas and they would never buy any of House's water and electricity. Vegas would wither and die leaving House the immortal technocrat of rumble and robots. Edit: That would make a cool sequel. 50 years later Vegas is abandoned but dangerous as hell because it is full of half broken-down crazed securitrons. House has totally lost it, something having gone wrong with his immortality machine. SwitchbladeKult fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 18:18
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Keeshhound posted:A ghoul mentioned that they were extinct in 2; I think that's the only reason House comments on it. npcs in fallout 2 talk about owning living cats you can talk to someone who is like oh yeah we ate all our cats but there's not really any reason to think that wasnt localized
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Jul 23, 2018 18:27
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SwitchbladeKult posted:Have we discussed yet just how stupid Caesar is for insisting that a true warrior fights using I mean, no I think that a few nerds in power armour probably are significantly less of a threat than thousands of killbots. Power armour is good but it hardly makes you unkillable. A massive army of robots would be a serious threat to both the NCR and the legion, especailly in the NCR's weakened state. Yes they might be able to take Vegas if they wanted to, but it would cost them dearly in resources, to the point that they might just say it isn't worth it, that's nominally the weakness of a democracy, you need public support to keep throwing lives at a problem, and it's not like America hasn't demonstrated this multiple times in the recent past. You could perhaps says that it is perhaps more of a contemporary view of the weakness of a democracy, than perhaps the NCR might be, but that would be entirely in-keeping with House being 200 years old, wouldn't it? The NCR would have two options, either throw massive numbers of lives away trying to secure Vegas to... very little end really if they have to destroy all the robots to do it and it's entirely possible House would destroy the dam as well if they threatened to take it. Or they can just accept that they have to pay for it. Or I suppose, stop expanding east, which is probably not really an option for them. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 18:29
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Berke Negri posted:npcs in fallout 2 talk about owning living cats I thought they all prefaced those stories with "this was back when cats were still around." Either way, my point was that House saying they were extinct was more of a nod to those NPCs than an "all cats are extinct, everywhere, this is canon." I mean, how would he know? Although, it would fit his character to just assume that because he couldn't find one, they must no longer exist.
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Jul 23, 2018 18:40
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SwitchbladeKult posted:I would totally agree with all of that if the Courier chose the Independent Vegas ending. There is no recovering from the PR nightmare of losing years of blood and treasure to a pissed off mailman. While House's plan is to give Kimball a "Mission Accomplished" moment I feel it would turn into a Pearl Harbor moment instead. Remember, House's plan is to let the NCR win the battle for Hoover Dam then stab them in the back, stealing it out from under them. Any savy politician could capitalize from House's plan even if it isn't Kimball. The narrative is clear: the good and smart NCR defeated the Legion only to be betrayed by their friend and ally Robert House in the 11th hour! At the very least the NCR would refuse to let it's citizens go to New Vegas and they would never buy any of House's water and electricity. Vegas would wither and die leaving House the immortal technocrat of rumble and robots. How would they enforce that though? Build a giant wall around New Vegas and just hope Mr. House/The Courier and their army of giant death robots are ok with that? Not to mention they'd lose the power from the Hoover Dam, severely weakening them. Either way a lot of the NPCs you meet aren't NCR settlers, they're either wandering traders, natives to the Mojave, or from unaffiliated factions like the Followers of the Apocalypse. New Vegas would be just fine.
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Jul 23, 2018 18:45
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Keeshhound posted:I thought they all prefaced those stories with "this was back when cats were still around." nah its like some young woman is like "yeah i had a cat when i was a kid but then we had a famine and everyone ate all the cats" and this is like 100 years after the war while npcs in another town refer to having a pet cat i think the only animal implicitly extinct are horses but that's never explicitly said in game either
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Jul 23, 2018 18:49
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Berke Negri posted:nah its like some young woman is like "yeah i had a cat when i was a kid but then we had a famine and everyone ate all the cats" and this is like 100 years after the war while npcs in another town refer to having a pet cat Poor Freckles, thought of giant ants and died
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Jul 23, 2018 18:52
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CharlestonJew posted:Poor Freckles, thought of giant ants and died IMO the Legion would be a way better faction if they dropped the rape-torture camps and replaced them with giant ant taming camps. Can you imagine chopped up Corvega chariots pulled by giant ants!?
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Jul 23, 2018 19:04
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CharlestonJew posted:How would they enforce that though? Build a giant wall around New Vegas and just hope Mr. House/The Courier and their army of giant death robots are ok with that? Not to mention they'd lose the power from the Hoover Dam, severely weakening them. Either way a lot of the NPCs you meet aren't NCR settlers, they're either wandering traders, natives to the Mojave, or from unaffiliated factions like the Followers of the Apocalypse. New Vegas would be just fine. NCR tourism is pretty explicitly the economic lifeblood of the Strip, and House's robot army can be subverted without facing the entirety of it directly (hence the Independent ending.) It seems to me that if sufficiently motivated, the NCR could, if not necessarily win back Vegas outright, inflict at least as much expense on House as he could on them by kicking them out of the Mojave with the Securitrons.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:08
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honestly fallout lore is dodgy as hell even going back to 1 where the master and lieutenant gives you contradictory explanations for why mutations occur (master says radiation, lieutenant says FEV from some leak in mariposa which doesn't really make a lot of sense) because the creators seemingly were in disagreement on a lot of things, this continues on in 2 in a lot of places which is why avellone set down to do the fallout bible to try and consolidate a coherent background for van buren but since that got canceled it never got finished so even it contradicts itself in places
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Jul 23, 2018 19:12
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SwitchbladeKult posted:I would totally agree with all of that if the Courier chose the Independent Vegas ending. There is no recovering from the PR nightmare of losing years of blood and treasure to a pissed off mailman. While House's plan is to give Kimball a "Mission Accomplished" moment I feel it would turn into a Pearl Harbor moment instead. Remember, House's plan is to let the NCR win the battle for Hoover Dam then stab them in the back, stealing it out from under them. Any savy politician could capitalize from House's plan even if it isn't Kimball. The narrative is clear: the good and smart NCR defeated the Legion only to be betrayed by their friend and ally Robert House in the 11th hour! At the very least the NCR would refuse to let it's citizens go to New Vegas and they would never buy any of House's water and electricity. Vegas would wither and die leaving House the immortal technocrat of rumble and robots. As for preventing people from going to The Strip, the mega-rich are already a privileged class in the NCR. The Strip is a hot new toy, and trying to take it away would just result in lobbying money moving to different senators.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:12
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House is attached to the Strip, but there's little reason why Joe Sixpack from the NCR should be. The NCR opens a few casinos in their core territories, or even just has a major recession cutting into discretionary travel budgets, and he could be looking at sizable loss of business. See what happened to Atlantic City IRL once gambling got legalized in more places.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:16
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I mean it's also the main bastion of civilization in the mojave, so... everyone who lives there is a reason to care. They need to buy stuff, have stuff to sell etc.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:28
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So you can blow it up without a guilty conscience knowing that it'll just be downloaded into a new body - maybe not a cat this time - and sent to one of your Settlements Pity they didn't have mixups in the Synth room and suddenly a humanoid synth starts mooing and the Brahmin start screaming about intruders
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Jul 23, 2018 19:56
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CharlestonJew posted:How would they enforce that though? Build a giant wall around New Vegas and just hope Mr. House/The Courier and their army of giant death robots are ok with that? Not to mention they'd lose the power from the Hoover Dam, severely weakening them. Either way a lot of the NPCs you meet aren't NCR settlers, they're either wandering traders, natives to the Mojave, or from unaffiliated factions like the Followers of the Apocalypse. New Vegas would be just fine. At first I thought this was still about the cats.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:56
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cat in a fridge with a pre-war safe with jet and a pipe gun in it
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Jul 23, 2018 20:04
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OwlFancier posted:I mean it's also the main bastion of civilization in the mojave, so... everyone who lives there is a reason to care. They need to buy stuff, have stuff to sell etc. If you side with House doesn't he end up kicking out everyone in and around New Vegas that isn't a rich tourist immediately after he takes over Hoover Dam? Besides, what does New Vegas have to offer for trade? It is full of robots and gambling. What use is that to the surrounding towns? Yeah they got electricity and water now but they are charging way more than anyone can afford. Places like Jacob's Town are much better trading partners than Vegas. Without the NCR stuffing House's coffers he is nothing. SwitchbladeKult fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 20:09
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