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PT6A posted:I don't object to Bernie's oldness because I think people wouldn't vote for him, I object to it because I personally think anyone 70+ is not in ideal shape for the presidency. It's a demanding position, and the fact that y'all elected someone who's completely unqualified and unsuited to it on literally every level this time around doesn't make it a good idea. Thanks for the concern troll, I'm glad you can't vote here.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:52
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It's the 2016 argument all over again. Yes this person is more popular among the electorate at large and has better ideas, but this horrifically unpopular person campaigning on "better ideas will never happen, let's commit to doing poo poo-all for anyone" has such a great paper resume and so much experience, so let's risk losing to a fascist in order to be smug about how our terrible candidate with terrible ideas was somehow vaguely the most qualified in some unquantifiable way.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:11
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VitalSigns posted:It's the 2016 argument all over again. No? Bernie's absolutely the most appealing of the currently-prominent possible candidates, but that doesn't mean we can't find someone even better and younger. If it turns out that's actually impossible -- and I see no reason to believe that's the case, but it might be -- then by all means pick Bernie.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:16
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Clinton keels over on a hot day in NY and she's the most qualified candidate ever. Bernie drains 3s on a basketball court and runs for the train: too old
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Jul 23, 2018 20:17
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PT6A posted:No? We are building the bench. This takes time. In the meantime, Bernie is the guy who we need to go into the Oval Office. Age be damned.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:18
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PT6A posted:If it turns out that's actually impossible -- and I see no reason to believe that's the case, but it might be -- then by all means pick Bernie. Thanks for your input, Canadian, I'm sure your finger is on the pulse of who's nationally recognizable in American politics.  Matt Zerella posted:I'm glad you can't vote here.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:18
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PT6A posted:No? If we find someone better we should run them even if they're the crypt-keeper just pick a good VP. Better and younger is a subset of better so that would be fine too if they exist (they don't because there's a 45-year gap in Good Dems and people like AOC aren't old enough to run yet)
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Jul 23, 2018 20:19
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It really only comes down to who his running mate would be. He needs someone with his bonafides, and that can be seen as an additional bulwark against the existing establishment, not an offering to them. I have no idea who that person is. I don't care if he dies in office, and I don't get why people would care.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:20
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VitalSigns posted:If we find someone better we should run them even if they're the crypt-keeper just pick a good VP. Fair enough, I can see the value in that.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:20
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Gabbard or Ellison are the only two I'd trust as a VP pick to carry on Bernie's legacy should something go wrong. I don't particularly trust Warren. What I'd like to avoid is a Truman situation, which in this case for me personally would be Gillibrand.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:23
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Matt Zerella posted:Gabbard or Ellison are the only two I'd trust as a VP pick to carry on Bernie's legacy should something go wrong. I don't particularly trust Warren. Ellison would be an excellent pick. In fact, I think he'd be a credible pick for the top of the ticket.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:25
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Ellison would be great, but he's sort of taken a low profile lately hasn't he? Gabbard I don't know enough about Warren is not a good fit, or a good VP. same with all of the expected 2020 runners. anyone have any other names?
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Jul 23, 2018 20:28
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PT6A posted:Ellison would be an excellent pick. In fact, I think he'd be a credible pick for the top of the ticket. If Bernie runs, he won't. If Bernie doesn't he'd be my, to quote Christopher Multisante, "hair apparent".
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Jul 23, 2018 20:28
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Bernie/Keith 2020 Keith/Alexandria 2024 Alexandria for permanent General Secretary 2028
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Jul 23, 2018 20:29
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Ellison would be great, but he's sort of taken a low profile lately hasn't he? Bullock. But they're not going to run two white men. Ellison is running for AG in Minnesota. Not quite low profile but he's leaving the house.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:29
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Matt Zerella posted:If Bernie runs, he won't. If Bernie doesn't he'd be my, to quote Christopher Multisante, "hair apparent". That's probably a good choice on his part, even if I'd prefer him over Bernie in a perfect world.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:30
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Matt Zerella posted:Gabbard or Ellison are the only two I'd trust as a VP pick to carry on Bernie's legacy should something go wrong. I don't particularly trust Warren. nina turner
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Jul 23, 2018 20:41
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Condiv posted:nina Goddammit I always forget Nina and yeah, hell yeah, she'd be great.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:42
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Tulsi Gabbard, lol. Never change y'all
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Jul 23, 2018 20:58
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Condiv posted:nina I think this would be great.My worry is that Bernie doesn't make it to 2020 to run  I hope he's on the RBG staying alive workout regimen.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:02
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Condiv posted:nina Imagine how much this would piss off Donut Twitter. 
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Jul 23, 2018 21:12
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D.N. Nation posted:Tulsi Gabbard, lol. Never change y'all I wish democrats would start supporting women of color.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:41
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A man, who needs to ration his walmart brand insulin vials because the only health care he can afford has huge out of pocket deductibles, briefly scans his voter's pamphlet, his hand shaking from the hypoglycemia taking hold. Democrats he's never heard of fill the list, each making fig-leaf promises to make health care affordable, but Bernie Sanders stands out, offering a single payer solution that makes health care accessible to everyone. In a bout of dizziness and sweat, he takes his time to carefully turn the page without dropping or ripping the pamphlet. A grimace contorts his face when he scans Bernie's brief profile. "Nah, too old." He marks the spot on his ballot for Hillary Clinton, the only other name in politics he knows of in the past 40 years of his existence. The damp absentee ballot crumbles as he jams it into the envelope. He grips his chest tightly as he makes the long walk to his mailbox. Each step gets heavier and heavier, and just as the mailbox is within his sight, a terrible pain grips his entire body. He hits the ground with a thud, his balled up ballot gently rolling down his gravel driveway. As daylight turns to darkness, his last thoughts are of his car, a weathered and rusted pontiac firebird he left sitting in the front yard. "It only needs a tune-up" he murmurs, before the last ray of light leaves his eyes.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:41
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Freakazoid_ posted:A man, who needs to ration his walmart brand insulin vials because the only health care he can afford has huge out of pocket deductibles, briefly scans his voter's pamphlet, his hand shaking from the hypoglycemia taking hold. Democrats he's never heard of fill the list, each making fig-leaf promises to make health care affordable, but Bernie Sanders stands out, offering a single payer solution that makes health care accessible to everyone. In a bout of dizziness and sweat, he takes his time to carefully turn the page without dropping or ripping the pamphlet. A grimace contorts his face when he scans Bernie's brief profile. Wow that sounds like a great argument for supporting Sanders over Clinton, a thing which hasn't been contested here by anyone in ages. I mean, was Sanders anything approaching a household name prior to 2016? I certainly don't remember him doing much of anything, although he clearly was. Somewhere out there, there is someone else -- younger, but with similar policies -- who is working in a similarly invisible position, who could do what Sanders did in 2016 except actually secure the nomination this time.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:47
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Deptfordx posted:Serious question.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:53
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I agree with all this but the problem is there are no credible leftists in the Democratic party because they got purged by the 90s and Clinton (Bill) et al made sure they could never come back. So? Sanders wasn't in the Democratic party, it hardly seems like it's an impediment to people wanting to vote for him. You can pick from people outside the party organization -- Sanders himself proves that.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:55
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PT6A posted:So? Sanders wasn't in the Democratic party, it hardly seems like it's an impediment to people wanting to vote for him. You can pick from people outside the party organization -- Sanders himself proves that. Such as?
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Jul 23, 2018 21:59
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VitalSigns posted:Such as? I don't loving know! But I, and I suspect most people, wouldn't have known Sanders pre-2015 or so either. I don't have an exhaustive knowledge of every community organizer, labour leader, mayor, state official, etc. everywhere in America, but it defies common sense that there is no one who would fit the bill. If Clinton purged the leftists from the Democratic party in the 90s, it stands to reason that unless he actually had them killed, they're around somewhere. Like I said, if no such candidate can be found, there's nothing wrong with going ahead with Bernie, but I find it unlikely that that's the case.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:05
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Deptfordx posted:Serious question. Their age is a downside, but there are no other options who don't have downsides that are significantly worse (in the case of Sanders that is). PT6A posted:Beyond the demands of the presidency, someone who is that age simply doesn't have the same stake in the future that someone younger does. This is the sort of thing that sounds like it makes sense, but falls apart under scrutiny, at least in this context. As someone else mentioned, no one who becomes President has the same sort of stake in the future as the vast majority of Americans. You can potentially make this argument regarding voters, but not high profile politicians. LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:If that's what you think a 50 year old white liberal's wet dream is that, you don't actually know the difference between them and a republican. Or they just say they're a liberal and vote straight ticket R anyway or some such poo poo. There needs to be a distinction here. Your average 50 year old white liberal is very anti-cop, though this is under the assumption that the cop is a Republican with all the associated stereotypes. They are very favorable to "The Good Ones" among groups that are otherwise usually associated with conservatives (or perceived as such, like the military). The liberal's wet dream could best be described as "finding common ground with people who would normally be our enemies." Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 22:19
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how about instead of a brand new candidate with 0 name recognition who will go completely ignored by the media, we pick the candidate with high name recognition, tons of favorability, and great policy positions, and pair him up with a young running mate like, i dunno, sanders/turner 2020?
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Jul 23, 2018 22:19
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PT6A posted:So? Sanders wasn't in the Democratic party, it hardly seems like it's an impediment to people wanting to vote for him. You can pick from people outside the party organization -- Sanders himself proves that. So it could be somebody in the House that we don't know about or something, but if they're not making any waves yet then the clock is ticking.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:23
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bernie doesnt pass my purity test
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Jul 23, 2018 22:25
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I think Ellison would be an amazing presidential nominee if he wins his AG race first.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:46
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PT6A posted:I don't object to Bernie's oldness because I think people wouldn't vote for him, I object to it because I personally think anyone 70+ is not in ideal shape for the presidency. It's a demanding position, and the fact that y'all elected someone who's completely unqualified and unsuited to it on literally every level this time around doesn't make it a good idea. It's genetics. My grandpa on my dad's side fell apart in his 70s and barely made it into his 80s as a confused doddering sick old man who lingered for years in purgatory. He lived in a home for the last 6 years of his life. My wife's grandpa had full control of his facilities and basically kept the same schedule from his early 60s to his late 80s. He had a brief decline after a stroke and died immediately. He was living on his own right until the stroke. It's 100% dependent on the person, yeah generally people decline but some of them just keep going at the same basic level until they croak. Considering the vid footage of Bernie running through the airport, Bernie playing basketball and sinking buckets, Bernie confidently working the crowd on hot days - he seems like he's the latter.
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Jul 23, 2018 23:23
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He owns a beachouse IN VERMONT. The man bathes in the frigid waters of lake Champlain and gargles maple syrup. He will be fine.
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Jul 23, 2018 23:24
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Bernie can't run for president because Jotun are not citizens of America
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Jul 23, 2018 23:26
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PT6A posted:I don't loving know! But I, and I suspect most people, wouldn't have known Sanders pre-2015 or so either. Yes correct, and that handicap doomed his campaign. Had he been a household name pre-2015 then he would have almost certainly won the primaries, even more reason not to run someone nobody has ever heard of against established politicians with huge name recognition.
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Jul 23, 2018 23:28
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Lol arguing we need to run Bernie because of name recognition is literally some pro Hillary Anti Bernie 2016 primary rhetoric.
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Jul 23, 2018 23:32
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Lol arguing we need to run Bernie because of name recognition is literally some pro Hillary Anti Bernie 2016 primary rhetoric. Hillary's problem wasn't that she had name recognition per se, bud Being popular and well known - and this may be a controversial opinion - is in fact a good thing in a popularity and recognition contest.
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Jul 23, 2018 23:36
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Lol arguing we need to run Bernie because of name recognition is literally some pro Hillary Anti Bernie 2016 primary rhetoric. I'd argue clinton's problem was a bit too much name recognition, what with the decades of fraud and bullshit
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Jul 23, 2018 23:37
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