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the talent deficit posted:i thought they were removing nashorn because the graalvm js implementation is just better?
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 02:02 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 22:34 |
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c gently caress Groovy s: Groovy considers empty lists and strings falsey so you can do "if (!list)" instead of "if (list == null || list.empty())" or whatever. This means you can return the first element of a list by doing this: "return list ? list.first() : null" "Wait," you say. "I've seen this pattern before. This is where we're supposed to use the ?. operator, right?" Well "return list?.empty()" fails because ?. only cares about the nullity, not the truthiness. So now you get to see that line of code that really looks like it wants to use a ?. operator, but it can't. You're tempted to leave a comment explaining why it can't, but uuuugh. I miss Ceylon's "List.first" and "List.get()" having the type "Element?" and never throwing an exception for being out of bounds.
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 02:06 |
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Thermopyle posted:I've used bounty source many times to get someone to fix things in various open source projects. cool. so it’s a really good experience as a “client”? any frustration from bounties that never actually happen? disputes over achievement? any sense of how project people feel about it? does it draw in different contributors?
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 02:07 |
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Sometimes it's a little unclear what counts as finished, so you've got to really specify that. Otherwise I've never seen any complaints about it from project owners or people getting paid. I almost always have other people watching the issue end up contributing to the bounty as well, so that's nice.
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 03:40 |
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Sometimes I'll post the bounty issue on other forums that might have interested contributors and I've got people coming in from those forums.
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 03:42 |
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CPColin posted:c gently caress Groovy s: I feel like the ?. operator wouldn't even need to exist if tony hoare's b^Htrillion dollar mistake was not repeated ad infinitum
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 03:45 |
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rjmccall posted:does anyone here have experience with open-source (non-security-limited) bounty / crowdfunding programs? something like bountysource or i guess just kickstarter or gofundme or whatever open source bounties are usually comical because people offer like $15 for plural hours of effort, so it's literally worse than not offering a bounty in the first place. presumably apple isn't going to be that dumb?
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 04:38 |
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the talent deficit posted:i thought they were removing nashorn because the graalvm js implementation is just better? graal still isn't in an official jdk release. nor, so far as i know, is there a jsr for it. i am starting to worry that it is not going to be a part of a real jdk
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 04:41 |
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The biggest bounty I'm aware of was $500 for basically someone to come in and rewrite a large subsystem in an emulator (something about open source nerds having to steal content made for better operating systems goes here). Anyone knowledgeable enough to try knew how miniscule that amount was for the amount of work, so the project was littered with tons of bad attempts for the $500 that caused several on the core team to quit over being pressured to code review this thing and merge a broken branch constantly. If you think design-by-committee is bad, wait until you see design-by-bounty.
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 05:47 |
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comedyblissoption posted:has there ever been a situation in the history of programming languages where implicitly coercing non-boolean values to true or false was a good idea I can't think of one. It just encourages the sloppiest of idioms, to the point where you see code like in my example and think it needs to look more idiomatic and suddenly you're trying to call first() on an empty list and your code blows up. I wish Ceylon's ecosystem were a little healthier, so I could advocate for it more. (It just moved to the Eclipse Foundation and has kind of been stuck, gearing up for a binary-incompatible release, with very few commits going on.)
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 05:51 |
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comedyblissoption posted:has there ever been a situation in the history of programming languages where implicitly coercing non-boolean values to true or false was a good idea mumps has the ultimate bad take on bools and coersion. everything is implicitly typed by usage. numerics <=0 are false, >=1 are true, strings are coerced into numbers and then evaluated. on top of that, boolean evaluations are secretly a non-atomic set and then test on the secret global $T variable. An example (note that mumps comments begin with semicolons): code:
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 06:25 |
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Thermopyle posted:Sometimes it's a little unclear what counts as finished, so you've got to really specify that. Otherwise I've never seen any complaints about it from project owners or people getting paid. thanks, that's really helpful b0lt posted:open source bounties are usually comical because people offer like $15 for plural hours of effort, so it's literally worse than not offering a bounty in the first place. presumably apple isn't going to be that dumb? i mean this is not apple, apple funds swift development by employing like fifty people to work on various aspects of it (which is not nearly enough) and of course it's a part of our jobs to help out external contributors so that's a pretty meaningful kind of open-source funding. this is more like "someone else wants a minor language feature but doesn't want to wade through the evolution process and learn how to write a compiler in c++". and yeah, bounties being comically low is probably the biggest concern here, although swift is a relatively major project so maybe it wouldn't completely languish?
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 07:31 |
yesssss the return of mumpsposting
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 07:53 |
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VikingofRock posted:yesssss the return of mumpsposting
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 07:55 |
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jit bull transpile posted:numerics <=0 are false, >=1 are true, strings are coerced into numbers and then evaluated what is 0.5
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 08:14 |
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that is definitely some sort of programming language semantics right there
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 08:18 |
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b0lt posted:what is 0.5 maybe neither?
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 08:44 |
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Maximum Leader posted:maybe neither? bool? yes
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 08:50 |
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rjmccall posted:that is definitely some sort of programming language semantics right there
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 09:13 |
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From the opposite side, about a month ago I thought about establishing our project on those oss bounty sites, and after looking at the issues and bounties, and with very specific exceptions, the $$ bounties were laughably low even for someone who lives in eastern Europe. The exceptions were company paid things like "add simd support to pypy", which probably still were laughably small for the effort unless you already were core developer.
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 09:18 |
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b0lt posted:what is 0.5 I can't remember. I write Hadoop now.
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 16:19 |
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b0lt posted:what is 0.5 FileNotFound
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 17:02 |
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carry on then posted:FileNotFound
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 17:14 |
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thats 4.04
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 17:35 |
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i'm sorry the bad people did this to you
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# ? Jul 20, 2018 18:37 |
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Boiled Water posted:bool?
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# ? Jul 21, 2018 00:46 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:nashorn replaced rhino, but now they are questioning the wisdom of including any js runtime at all our use case is adding scripting for users to extend a product. you want the scripting language to be something people might know already, which basically means python or javascript these days. but jython is permastuck on python 2 and also has absolutely terrible performance and barely supports java 8 even, so nashorn was the best option while it lasted
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# ? Jul 21, 2018 11:47 |
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Soricidus posted:our use case is adding scripting for users to extend a product. you want the scripting language to be something people might know already, which basically means python or javascript these days. but jython is permastuck on python 2 and also has absolutely terrible performance and barely supports java 8 even, so nashorn was the best option while it lasted well there are lots of bridges to/from java and other languages just, you have to distribute two runtimes. one for java, one for the target language. which sucks if you have zero control over deployment
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# ? Jul 24, 2018 22:10 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:well there are lots of bridges to/from java and other languages yeah, we’ve experimented with things like jpype and they look promising but are a pain to deploy compared to literally no effort for nashorn, or just bunging another jar in with all the others for jython
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 00:49 |
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Soricidus posted:so nashorn was the best option while it lasted
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 01:34 |
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Soricidus posted:yeah, we’ve experimented with things like jpype and they look promising but are a pain to deploy compared to literally no effort for nashorn, or just bunging another jar in with all the others for jython if you want to just bang in a jar, rhino is still kinda/sorta supported by mozilla it at least gets bugfixes
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 02:03 |
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Peeny Cheez posted:The best technical option, maybe. The best overall option in that situation is, of course, to fake your death and move to Belize. i wanted to disagree but after thinking about it i am pretty sure you are right
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 02:03 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:if you want to just bang in a jar Notorious b.s.d. posted:rhino is still kinda/sorta supported by mozilla
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 02:22 |
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the fact that the issues with embedding python as a scripting language stem rather directly from the breaking changes the maintainers forced through should make you weary of jumping through complicated hoops to embed the changed version. i at least would worry about the future maintainability of the thing a sad state of affairs when javascript is the only other option, but you'll be drowning in quite compatible options on that front
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 09:00 |
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:the fact that the issues with embedding python as a scripting language stem rather directly from the breaking changes the maintainers forced through should make you weary of jumping through complicated hoops to embed the changed version. i at least would worry about the future maintainability of the thing there is that other alternative for embedded things it's just, it's c++ and calling it an alternative might be a stretch
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 09:08 |
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only other alternative from what Soricidus listed i should say. without that constraint i think i'd toss in groovy and be done, if i was just expected to provide something maintainable/accessible (and wasn't a primary user of the extension system myself)
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 09:29 |
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they should just include js polyfills or w/e the gently caress it's called in the JVM and be done with it. bing bang badda boom support for new js (we did just this for a thing and it works fine) plus i'll be dead before we upgrade to jdk11 so meh
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 10:29 |
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don’t people embed lua into applications a lot? I think the wow ui is all lua
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 13:39 |
Sweeper posted:don’t people embed lua into applications a lot? I think the wow ui is all lua yeah wow ui is entirely in lua
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 14:33 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 22:34 |
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If your budget is > 15$ per board, there's no excuse to not run embedded Linux these days. That price point get's you 1Ghz+, 512Mb of ram, and 8GB of eMMC. At that point, choose whatever language you drat well please.
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# ? Jul 25, 2018 14:38 |