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Spacewolf posted:I do have one question: They bonesaw their jets heavily. If you could pop the hood on one of their nets im sure youd find at least a dozen parts of different planes inside. Also, surely russian mechanics are aiding in the airforce being kept up. The russians brought their own airforce and spare parts to the theater, they could have been given a parts needed order from syria for essential jet parts and just include them in their own airforce shipments to the country. When youve got a dude whos worked on migs for 40 years your going to find they will last a long time. Especially when youve got gargantuan scrapyards to choose from
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Jul 24, 2018 22:03
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https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1021782993617256458?s=19
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Jul 24, 2018 22:20
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Boy that would be a thing.
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Jul 24, 2018 22:28
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They should ask the Kurds how that worked out for them.
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Jul 24, 2018 22:33
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They then sign a referendum to become part of kuwait Seeing as this is the iraqi gate to the sea i doubt that the government wouldnt commit attrocities to maintain the lifeline. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 25, 2018 00:02
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I suspect there are a significant number of people in that province who don't actually want to leave Iraq as well. This isn't a province populated by people from a minority ethnic group or sect, and protesting against the government doesn't mean you suddenly want to be independent. I just hope the government doesn't decide to start placating angry Shia by loving over Sunnis and starting this whole cycle over again.
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Jul 25, 2018 00:32
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Iraq is inherently unstable. I really doubt Basra is going to become independent but stuff like this will keep coming up. Even if Iraqis themselves somehow become unified the country will still be split by its stronger neighbours.
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Jul 25, 2018 00:39
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Count Roland posted:Iraq is inherently unstable. I really doubt Basra is going to become independent but stuff like this will keep coming up. Even if Iraqis themselves somehow become unified the country will still be split by its stronger neighbours. Iraq's strongest neighbors would prefer to deal with a unified Iraq though, and Iran in particular has a vested interest in keeping it that way. I don't think the US has any interest in partition either, even if it might contribute to weakening Iranian influence in the region, just because there's no way the country would collapse peacefully, and watching ISIS reestablish itself in the Sunni triangle isn't something anyone wants to take the blame for letting happen. Nobody wants a new refugee crisis from the region as the statelets fight to establish their borders either. I personally think Iraq's more likely to turn back into a dictatorship than it is to splinter any time soon, and everyone will more or less look the other way in the name of stability.
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Jul 25, 2018 01:13
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https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/1022034164097470464
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Jul 25, 2018 13:45
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Sinteres posted:Iraq's strongest neighbors would prefer to deal with a unified Iraq though, and Iran in particular has a vested interest in keeping it that way. I don't think the US has any interest in partition either, even if it might contribute to weakening Iranian influence in the region, just because there's no way the country would collapse peacefully, and watching ISIS reestablish itself in the Sunni triangle isn't something anyone wants to take the blame for letting happen. Nobody wants a new refugee crisis from the region as the statelets fight to establish their borders either. I personally think Iraq's more likely to turn back into a dictatorship than it is to splinter any time soon, and everyone will more or less look the other way in the name of stability. The neighbours want a unified Iraq that is friendly to their interests. KSA for example would prefer a split Iraq to one unified under Iran's banner, and vice versa. Especially if Iran gets into a shooting war with someone, I could see some of these more helpless states being carved up a bit like Syria has been. Not saying this will happen any time soon mind you.
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Jul 25, 2018 14:48
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Well the good news is Basra's been hosed up harder in the last 50 years, technically.
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Jul 25, 2018 18:13
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Is there any thread to discuss the Pakistani elections or will this thread do?
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Jul 25, 2018 20:33
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mila kunis posted:Is there any thread to discuss the Pakistani elections or will this thread do? Afghanistan comes up a lot, so I think you're good to go so long as you keep the Pakistan discussion west of the Indus river. Don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about Pakistan ITT though.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:09
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Since the Bush Jr administration, the Greater Middle East has referred to all the countries from Morocco to Pakistan and from Kazakhstan to Somalia.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:59
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Cat Mattress posted:Since the Bush Jr administration, the Greater Middle East has referred to all the countries from Morocco to Pakistan and from Kazakhstan to Somalia. lol at Cyprus not being Middle Eastern but Kazakhstan and Pakistan applying under some definitions.
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Jul 25, 2018 22:09
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Grape posted:lol at Cyprus not being Middle Eastern but Kazakhstan and Pakistan applying under some definitions. Here's the full-size image, it's from Wikipedia: 
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Jul 25, 2018 22:18
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Saladin Rising posted:Cyprus is counted, you just can't see it with how low resolution the picture is. Honestly the southern Balkans should have some sort of highly conditional light color, even if every country there would sputter and protest about it.
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Jul 25, 2018 22:22
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Speaking of Pakistani elections, there was a suicide bombing at a polling station today, at least 30 dead.
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Jul 25, 2018 22:23
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Grape posted:Honestly the southern Balkans should have some sort of highly conditional light color, even if every country there would sputter and protest about it. The map has more to do with Islam (and the reach of Islamist terror groups) than geography, and the context for this super broad definition was the early War on Terror, which is why countries around Afghanistan were seen as more relevant than usual. I think the former Soviet -stans (except for maybe Tajikistan) are sufficiently distinct that reading much about them in this thread would be weird (just my feeling, not trying to thread police), but as long as the US is in Afghanistan, it and Pakistan will probably be thread relevant.
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Jul 25, 2018 22:46
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Even then it’s kind of weird. Like, Georgia and Armenia? Also do Azeris or Kazakhs really have any connection to the idea of a global Islam, at all? I guess the “Middle East” being a catchall for the former Ottoman territories is reasonable, especially since it’s very frequently referred to as MENA in international organizations, but including Iran and especially anything east of Iran always seems weird to me. Like are there any links of any kind between Central Asia and any of the trsdional “Middle East” countries? The only connection I have ever heard is for hajj and Saudi-funded Wahhabi evangelical imam missionaries. OtherWise the cultural and economic ties seem pretty much nil.
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Jul 25, 2018 23:21
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Grape posted:Honestly the southern Balkans should have some sort of highly conditional light color, even if every country there would sputter and protest about it. I've never, ever seen anybody say that the southern Balkans could be included in the Middle East. Central Asia is already tenuous enough, and rarely defined as part of the Middle East as is, but in all my life I haven't seen anyone try to make the case that the South Balkans should be too. Saladman posted:Even then it’s kind of weird. Like, Georgia and Armenia? Also do Azeris or Kazakhs really have any connection to the idea of a global Islam, at all? If you want, you can say that Central Asia is both mostly Muslim and Turkic, with strong cultural connections to Turkish, Persian and to a lesser extent Arab cultures and massive historical connections to the core of the Middle East too. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 00:00
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Saladman posted:Even then it’s kind of weird. Like, Georgia and Armenia? Also do Azeris or Kazakhs really have any connection to the idea of a global Islam, at all?  Ras Al Ayn/Sere Kaniye, Raqqa, and Deir Ez Zor. Deir Ez-Zor in particular was home to the Deir Ez Zor camps and Deir Ez-Zor has been called the Armenian Auschwitz, since it was where the most mass killings occurred. Deir Ez-Zor was also home to a memorial and museum to the victims of the genocide, but those both were destroyed by ISIS in 2014, because ISIS. The Deir Ez Zor camps posted:Those who survived the long journey south were herded into huge open-air concentration camps, the grimmest of which was Deir-ez-Zor... where they were starved and killed by sadistic guards. A small number escaped through the secret protection of friendly Arabs from villages in Northern Syria. Prior to the Syrian civil war there was a sizable Armenian diaspora of about 60,000 people in Syria (many descended from those who escaped from the deportations/camps), and at least 15,000 or so have fled Syria and been granted Armenian citizenship, and settled in Armenia and the Nagorno-Karabakh region. This has bolstered Armenia's influence/control of the region and pissed off Azerbaijan: quote:In December 2014, Armenian media cited local municipal authorities in stating that dozens of Syrian Armenian families had been resettled in the disputed zone, in particular in the city of Lachin and the village of Xanlıq in Qubadli. Azerbaijan's Minister of Foreign Affairs Elmar Mammadyarov expressed his concern over Armenia's attempts to change the demographic situation in the region and informed of his intention to raise this issue with the Minsk Group. Finally, Georgia I can actually give a specific and direct answer for: https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/1021675423879454721 quote:President Assad receives Anatoly Bibilov President of South Ossetia who is in Syria for 3 day visit. President Bibilov thanks Syria for recognizing South Ossetia & his country’s support & solidarity for Syria. Treaty of friendship and cooperation was signed between the countries. https://twitter.com/howardamos/status/881075120055480320 quote:Chechen soldiers in Syria have carved "Grozny" into the antique remains of Palmyra. Photo via Russian war correspondent Kirill Romanovskiy Saladin Rising fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 00:18
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khwarezm posted:I've never, ever seen anybody say that the southern Balkans could be included in the Middle East. Central Asia is already tenuous enough, and rarely defined as part of the Middle East as is, but in all my life I haven't seen anyone try to make the case that the South Balkans should be too. I mean in the same world where Central Asia receives tenuous definitions, the southern Balkans should get the same sort of definition. There are many shared cultural characteristics across the former Ottoman/Byzantine world that didn't vanish after independence from the Turks. Some even gained after.
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Jul 26, 2018 02:51
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Grape posted:I mean in the same world where Central Asia receives tenuous definitions, the southern Balkans should get the same sort of definition. Ok, this feels like an extremely Goony conversation because we're fixating on definitions for something that's intrinsically arbitrary. The only thing that actually matters for designations like 'Europe' or 'The Middle East' is what's widely agreed upon by society as a whole, you can argue until the sun burns out that Albania being mostly Muslim and heavily Turkish influenced should technically make them eligible to be considered Middle Eastern, maybe, but it simply does not matter because the only thing that really makes something Middle Eastern is if we all collectively decide that it's Middle Eastern, and like I said the Balkans never gets thrown into the Middle East basket in my experience. There'll always be edge cases and bizarre frustrating exceptions to whatever rules you try to come up with to unify these sorts of things, like the Republic of Cyprus being resolutely and homogeneously Christian which undermines the idea that the Middle East is specifically Muslim, or the existence of Albania and Bosnia undermining the idea that Europe is intrinsically christian, it's all arbitrary and ill defined and in constant flux (The expanded definition of the Middle East mostly comes from the War on Terror, while when the Byzantine empire still controlled Anatolia most of Asia Minor would have been considered integrally European) so this is sort of a go-nowhere discussion.
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Jul 26, 2018 04:36
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khwarezm posted:Ok, this feels like an extremely Goony conversation because we're fixating on definitions for something that's intrinsically arbitrary. The only thing that actually matters for designations like 'Europe' or 'The Middle East' is what's widely agreed upon by society as a whole, you can argue until the sun burns out that Albania being mostly Muslim and heavily Turkish influenced should technically make them eligible to be considered Middle Eastern, maybe, but it simply does not matter because the only thing that really makes something Middle Eastern is if we all collectively decide that it's Middle Eastern, and like I said the Balkans never gets thrown into the Middle East basket in my experience. There'll always be edge cases and bizarre frustrating exceptions to whatever rules you try to come up with to unify these sorts of things, like the Republic of Cyprus being resolutely and homogeneously Christian which undermines the idea that the Middle East is specifically Muslim, or the existence of Albania and Bosnia undermining the idea that Europe is intrinsically christian, it's all arbitrary and ill defined and in constant flux (The expanded definition of the Middle East mostly comes from the War on Terror, while when the Byzantine empire still controlled Anatolia most of Asia Minor would have been considered integrally European) so this is sort of a go-nowhere discussion. Not to mention that the "Middle East" has been a definition that has been incredibly susceptible to change over the years. First of all it's not that old, like late 19th century itroduced by British naval strategists IIRC to refer to the region between the Near East and India, that is roughly the Persian Gulf area and Afghanistan. Then it changed again in WWI and kind of usurped the earlier "Near East" term (and I believe it included Greece at this time, also primarily a strategic term rather than cultural or religious), and then continued to change after WW2, with many modern understandings of the term also including North Africa and even Central Asia at times and maybe excluding Anatolia depending on the mood of whoever is using it.
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Jul 26, 2018 10:00
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Saladin Rising posted:
Huh! I'd heard of the Armenian population in Syria from the small few who escaped the genocide, but had not heard anything about Nagorno-Karabakh in forever. I wonder if the local Armenians are pissed off about "them refugees" that the Armenian government let in, or if they're welcoming because of 100-year-old ethnic ties? 15,000 people is quite a bit for that area - just over 10% of the population, it looks like.
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Jul 26, 2018 11:40
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Soleimani is never one to turn down a good sabre rattling. https://mobile.twitter.com/MehrzadBBC/status/1022414244812337152
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Jul 26, 2018 12:33
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Volkerball posted:Soleimani is never one to turn down a good sabre rattling. Love to see Iranian generals talking to US presidents like they want them to release their bankai.
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Jul 26, 2018 13:09
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Volkerball posted:Soleimani is never one to turn down a good sabre rattling. Seems dumb. However bad an idea war with Iran is for the US, it would be a hell of a lot worse for Iran. That doesn't mean Iran should do absolutely everything we demand to avoid it, but maybe making threats right now isn't helpful.
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Jul 26, 2018 13:50
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Sinteres posted:Seems dumb. However bad an idea war with Iran is for the US, it would be a hell of a lot worse for Iran. That doesn't mean Iran should do absolutely everything we demand to avoid it, but maybe making threats right now isn't helpful.
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Jul 26, 2018 14:11
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Constant belligerence generates legitimacy for the IRGC. Without it people might start to wonder why Iran has two armies and why one owns half the businesses in the country. Does it? The people seem increasingly disenchanted with Iran's aggressive foreign policy, and the price they pay for it.
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Jul 26, 2018 14:12
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Sinteres posted:Does it? The people seem increasingly disenchanted with Iran's aggressive foreign policy, and the price they pay for it. I suspect there will be a mix of opinions. Lots of Iranian people see huge amounts of their money going to Syria, Lebanon and elsewhere and are understandably tired of it. On the other hand, Trump is clearly gunning for Iran, and that kind of legitimate external threat has a way of uniting people.
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Jul 26, 2018 15:06
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khwarezm posted:Ok, this feels like an extremely Goony conversation because we're fixating on definitions for something that's intrinsically arbitrary. The only thing that actually matters for designations like 'Europe' or 'The Middle East' is what's widely agreed upon by society as a whole, you can argue until the sun burns out that Albania being mostly Muslim and heavily Turkish influenced should technically make them eligible to be considered Middle Eastern, maybe, but it simply does not matter because the only thing that really makes something Middle Eastern is if we all collectively decide that it's Middle Eastern, and like I said the Balkans never gets thrown into the Middle East basket in my experience. There'll always be edge cases and bizarre frustrating exceptions to whatever rules you try to come up with to unify these sorts of things, like the Republic of Cyprus being resolutely and homogeneously Christian which undermines the idea that the Middle East is specifically Muslim, or the existence of Albania and Bosnia undermining the idea that Europe is intrinsically christian, it's all arbitrary and ill defined and in constant flux (The expanded definition of the Middle East mostly comes from the War on Terror, while when the Byzantine empire still controlled Anatolia most of Asia Minor would have been considered integrally European) so this is sort of a go-nowhere discussion. That's what happens when you get into discussing anything with "Greater" tossed on front mate.
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Jul 26, 2018 15:44
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Sinteres posted:Seems dumb. However bad an idea war with Iran is for the US, it would be a hell of a lot worse for Iran. That doesn't mean Iran should do absolutely everything we demand to avoid it, but maybe making threats right now isn't helpful. They don't actually want a war with the US any more than North Korea does. But as previous posters said, it's necessary to keep aggressive dialogue going (so long as it isn't really going anywhere) for domestic consumption. It invigorates their own support base, makes reform more difficult, and provides convenient justification for the positions of power they enjoy. The US president being an easily manipulated buffoon makes this easier in a variety of ways - both to keep things ramped up for those juicy sound bites and to put the brakes on in ways that still keep you looking good. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 16:41
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This is already being discussed in the Trump thread, but it's obviously relevant here too: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1022502465147682817 This alliance just keeps getting stronger and stronger!
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Jul 26, 2018 16:52
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There's also this: https://twitter.com/mestrate/status/1022097108239835137
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Jul 26, 2018 17:15
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Cat Mattress posted:There's also this: Holy poo poo.
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Jul 26, 2018 17:17
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Cat Mattress posted:There's also this: If the Turks don't get the JSF the UK won't be able to service the fighters they don't have on the carrier they didn't want. 
Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 17:20
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Cat Mattress posted:There's also this: Lol what a punishment.
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Jul 26, 2018 17:30
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Rent-A-Cop posted:If the Turks don't get the JSF the UK won't be able to service the fighters they don't have on the carrier they didn't want. Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 17:41
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