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Honestly I find that one of the game's least satisfying rules and suggest just playing at +1 or +2 and communicating as much as you like. A "don't be a dick" rule that prevents you from micro-managing your teammates is good and is I think part of what that's supposed to foster, but if you've got a good head for games and play frequently with the same classes, you get a pretty good feel for what your teammates can do such that any hint of speed is going to be easy to figure out. Nevermind that in theory if they say broadly what they're doing, you'll generally know what cards they're using unless it's the simplest plan. Like if the Cragheart says "I wanna hit all these guys and muddle them", no one is going to think anything's going on except Giant Boulder, etc. I'd say either don't talk at all, or play it really fast and loose and crank up difficulty once you've found your feet.
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Jul 26, 2018 21:16
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SettingSun posted:In games that limit communication, it's almost a guarantee that you'll develop a meta that doesn't violate the letter of the rules but does violate the spirit of them. My group considers the rule a bit arbitrary so we play with it very loosely.  the enemies can gently caress up your plans anyways, and you can change what you're doing once everyone has flipped their cards over (like if you were planning on not moving and hitting enemies that moved up, but they aren't moving this turn), so I don't think you really lose anything by being more or less accurate with how you communicate what you're doing
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Jul 26, 2018 21:17
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As a Mindthief, I basically have two lines: I'm going to slowly walk up and obliterate this guy, or I'm going to do blasphemous things to this guy and quickly get away. Miftan is correct, though. After 4-6 scenarios, you're just going to know the cards so well that even vague descriptions will be as good as actual numbers.
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Jul 26, 2018 21:27
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Yeah, "I'm going as fast/slow as I possibly can" is fine, imo
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Jul 26, 2018 21:44
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Guy A. Person posted:Hahah my literal first turn as the Brute: I was closest to the 3 bandits on the right of the room and did a delayed initiative with a big sweeping attack and the lower half attack, and literally the first guard card we drew was the one that gave them all ranged attacks. So instead of me tanking and smashing I watched our party's Cragheart getting nearly killed in the first round because he was equidistant from me and acted earlier. My first turn as brute ended up charge -> cleaving into 3 guards with 1 shield and 2 retaliate really set the tone for the rest of the run.
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Jul 26, 2018 22:01
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I like the ambition of the blue sky thinking behind some of the quirkier scenario objectives but not all of them feel very thoroughly playtested. That's probably a function of how big the game is but that just suggests it's too big in some ways.
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Jul 26, 2018 22:45
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So, I have a problem maybe you dudes can help. Basically, with the mind thief, I can basically, yeah, walk up and murder the ever living gently caress out of a guy, probably burning a card or two, or I can do weird stun poo poo (or steal all the gold). Often there's generally an obvious target for everyone, and my team mates don't always have the ability to just delete a fool. However, I never really want to be the closest to any enemy, because I'll die. So I find more often than not, I have to wait until all my team mates are done deciding what they're doing, and then adapting. This is fine, but my girlfriend who is incredibly critical of everything I do keeps getting uppity that she has to wait for me. Is there any way that I can plan better without knowing what the Brute and Cragheart are doing (the spell weaver rarely matters to my positioning). I know this stuff will come with time (we're only level 3) but any tips would be massively appreciated, tia.
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Jul 26, 2018 22:52
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The Mindthief has a handful of slow-rear end cards that will likely play after all the enemies are done moving. It doesn't matter where you end your turn since you can basically always take your next turn before anything gets to move again. Plus enemies that are stunned, disarmed or immobilized melee attackers can't hurt you. With Perverse Edge and Frigid Apparation you get two non-loss stuns right out the gate. Once you get the hang of Mindthief you'll basically never be attacked unless you decided to take the hit beforehand, and as long as your tankier team mates don't move away from their current target, you'll usually be able to position yourself without knowing when they'll act.
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Jul 26, 2018 22:56
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!Klams posted:So, I have a problem maybe you dudes can help. Basically, with the mind thief, I can basically, yeah, walk up and murder the ever living gently caress out of a guy, probably burning a card or two, or I can do weird stun poo poo (or steal all the gold). Often there's generally an obvious target for everyone, and my team mates don't always have the ability to just delete a fool. However, I never really want to be the closest to any enemy, because I'll die. So I find more often than not, I have to wait until all my team mates are done deciding what they're doing, and then adapting. This is fine, but my girlfriend who is incredibly critical of everything I do keeps getting uppity that she has to wait for me. Is there any way that I can plan better without knowing what the Brute and Cragheart are doing (the spell weaver rarely matters to my positioning). I know this stuff will come with time (we're only level 3) but any tips would be massively appreciated, tia. Especially for the Mindthief, consider going into a slow-fast-slow-fast tempo. Basically, turn 1 you go slow with the intention of going after the monsters. You walk up and stab a dude. Turn 2 you go fast, before the monsters, and stab+run away. Then repeat in a cycle. Save invisibility for when you get caught out or have to interrupt the tempo.
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Jul 26, 2018 22:57
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!Klams posted:So, I have a problem maybe you dudes can help. Basically, with the mind thief, I can basically, yeah, walk up and murder the ever living gently caress out of a guy, probably burning a card or two, or I can do weird stun poo poo (or steal all the gold). Often there's generally an obvious target for everyone, and my team mates don't always have the ability to just delete a fool. However, I never really want to be the closest to any enemy, because I'll die. So I find more often than not, I have to wait until all my team mates are done deciding what they're doing, and then adapting. This is fine, but my girlfriend who is incredibly critical of everything I do keeps getting uppity that she has to wait for me. Is there any way that I can plan better without knowing what the Brute and Cragheart are doing (the spell weaver rarely matters to my positioning). I know this stuff will come with time (we're only level 3) but any tips would be massively appreciated, tia. There's a rhythm to playing the stab rat, but it's not complicated. Use the slow cards to walk up after the monsters go, use the fast cards to get back out before they go again. If you're trapped, go fast and go invisible. If the problem is ranged guys, stun is the answer. Scurry+Perverse Edge followed up with Frigid Apparition+Empathetic Assault(or Move 4) is just great for dealing with tight situations or really tough guys. The Invis Cloak is a wonderful crutch, and Boots of Striding are great as well. Bur really: Move in slow, move out fast, do damage in between. And since two other people posted the same basic idea while I was writing this, let me add something: Fearsome Blade is an absurdly good card. There are lots of traps in scenarios, and trap damage bypasses shields. The feeling you get when you stab an elite for 4 then push him into a 4 point trap is just glorious. And you can even hit multiple traps if you line it up right! I ride bikes all day fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 23:01
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Yeah, a combination of alternating slow/fast and alternating melee/ranged are both pretty key for mindthief. You want to think like a lion separating weak stragglers from the herd, such that you never expose yourself to being focused by more enemies than you can drop disables on in a turn. In terms of communicating effectively, generally I've found for mindthief you just need to know where people are standing and who they're planning on killing, and all the other details don't matter. Feel free to claim your spot first if your teammates are dithering, and then it becomes their problem to pick from the remaining targets or spots to stand. King of Bleh fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 23:24
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You shouldn't be culling the herd as Mindthief, though. You should point to the biggest, toughest baddie on the field, go "gang, I got this" and stunlock that fucker and their double digit hit points to death.
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Jul 26, 2018 23:34
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Okay the analogy was a bit strained, but my point was that when positioning it's good to have invisibility, fast initiative, etc to bail out when things go sour, but it's even better if you find ways to outflank isolated enemies and manage focus such that you never even get targetted. The end goal is to be able to drop Into the Night for another attack because your positioning and stuns render it redundant, and to not care about using your fast cards because anything that might look at you funny was already stunned in the previous round.
King of Bleh fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 23:42
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SettingSun posted:In games that limit communication, it's almost a guarantee that you'll develop a meta that doesn't violate the letter of the rules but does violate the spirit of them. My group considers the rule a bit arbitrary so we play with it very loosely. Ah, Hanabi.
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Jul 27, 2018 03:40
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silvergoose posted:Ah, Hanabi. *Kerrigan voice* Thinkin' the same thing.
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Jul 27, 2018 03:49
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Elephant Ambush posted:*Kerrigan voice* Thinkin' the same thing. I think the only point of the limited communication rules is to limit AP, in that you can't perfectly calculate everything before the start of the round. (Why are card names forbidden? Nobody who hasn't played your character knows your card names). Also Hanabi has explicit rules regarding communication and if you don't follow them to the letter you are cheating 
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Jul 27, 2018 04:13
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Only slow card I had in my deck as Mindthief was the other augment with jump muddle in the bottom but I ended up replacing that at level 6 (I think?) Even then I don't remember using it for slow initiative much. I also rarely did the back to back stun since the SW always wanted the frost and I usually let him. We just always killed the stuff that would have smashed me I guess.
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Jul 27, 2018 04:56
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Thursday Next posted:So... we just tried to do Scenario 33. What the everloving gently caress were we supposed to do? Unless we misread something the Savvas only spawn twice - once when you enter, and once when you loot all the treasure, but it's possible we misread something. THe solution is to stun and/or execute them.
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Jul 27, 2018 09:10
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thespaceinvader posted:Unless we misread something the Savvas only spawn twice - once when you enter, and once when you loot all the treasure, but it's possible we misread something. This is correct: "At the end of the current round one normal Savvas Lavaflow for three or four characters will spawn in hex D. At the end of the round in which the last treasure tile is looted, one normal Savvas Icestorm for two or three characters or one elite Savvas Icestorm for four characters will spawn in hex D". That scenario is difficult regardless, so misreading that will make it quite hard to beat. edit: nvm, looks like this was already answered on last page stoic665 fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jul 27, 2018 |
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Jul 27, 2018 18:12
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stoic665 posted:This is correct: We got a little lucky (scenario and eclipse, sun, cthulhu spoilers) with only one spawn, but as discussed a couple of pages back, we are playing a party which can trivialise basically anything. The Savvas have pierce poison and wound which is horrible for sun, but when there are only single-figure numbers of enemies in the scenario and they make elements a LOT, Eclipse just runs WILD. We only had to take like... 3 attacks in the entire scenario, and Sun soaked them even with the pierce/poison/wound. I had to walk through 3 traps on purpose to get my last perk ticked off lol
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Jul 27, 2018 20:29
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2 questions about scenario 81: I looted the chest in the final room and got the Helix Ring. My Sunkeeper got it. She is level 2, and as such can only have 1 handheld item. She already consumed her stamina potion during the scenario. Can I equip the Helix Ring and consume it to heal? Do consumed items, like the stamina potion, still count as being in your inventory after being consumed? She's low on health and whether I can heal or not is pretty important right now. I checked the rulebook and I couldn't find anything that confirms or denies whether or not consumed items are considered still in your inventory or not.
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Jul 27, 2018 20:58
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Elephant Ambush posted:2 questions about scenario 81: I looted the chest in the final room and got the Helix Ring. My Sunkeeper got it. She is level 2, and as such can only have 1 handheld item. She already consumed her stamina potion during the scenario. Can I equip the Helix Ring and consume it to heal? Do consumed items, like the stamina potion, still count as being in your inventory after being consumed? She's low on health and whether I can heal or not is pretty important right now. I checked the rulebook and I couldn't find anything that confirms or denies whether or not consumed items are considered still in your inventory or not. Isaac specifically mentions not being able to "change equipment" during a scenario in the FAQ. It's probably intended to apply to consumables, but we ignored it for the same reason you are considering doing so. Also because that item seems GD useless other than in that specific scenario.
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Jul 27, 2018 21:08
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Elephant Ambush posted:2 questions about scenario 81: I looted the chest in the final room and got the Helix Ring. My Sunkeeper got it. She is level 2, and as such can only have 1 handheld item. She already consumed her stamina potion during the scenario. Can I equip the Helix Ring and consume it to heal? Do consumed items, like the stamina potion, still count as being in your inventory after being consumed? She's low on health and whether I can heal or not is pretty important right now. I checked the rulebook and I couldn't find anything that confirms or denies whether or not consumed items are considered still in your inventory or not. You can only equip items at the start of a scenario so nothing you loot during a scenario can be equiped during that scenario.
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Jul 27, 2018 21:09
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Thanks! That's what I figured. Looks like I'm going to just barely lose and have to run it back. Oh well.
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Jul 27, 2018 22:17
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Elephant Ambush posted:Thanks! That's what I figured. Looks like I'm going to just barely lose and have to run it back. Oh well. That scenario is objectively the worst one in the game
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Jul 28, 2018 12:42
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81 is where we're headed next, after having unlocked it months ago. No Pun Included talked a bit about their scenarios in a recent email Efka posted:What actually goes into making a Gloomhaven adventure? Well, I wish I could tell you because even after having been involved in the process of making two of them I think I still have no idea. But at least I can (briefly) walk you through the steps that I have been involved in.
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Jul 28, 2018 12:48
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It was the third scenario we ever did, and we got completely wrecked. It was real satisfying to come back five levels later, knowing what to expect, and absolutely crush it with the ol' Scoundrel quadruple-damage combo, though.
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Jul 28, 2018 12:51
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million dollar mack posted:That scenario is objectively the worst one in the game I actually managed to barely squeak out a victory due to some very lucky attacks on the last couple turns. Sun exhausted and Cragheart survived the rest of the enemy attacks FTW. That scenario is a hell of a lot easier with the Sun class than it would be without and it's the #1 reason I waited to unlock Sun before trying it. IMO scenario 26 is easily the worst one I've seen. My group lost to it twice before just setting the difficulty to 0 and crushing it because we were so salty.
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Jul 28, 2018 14:29
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Scenario 2: Scoundrel (Me), Mind Thief, and Cragheart. We got loving destroyed in this scenario. Our DPS couldn't keep up with the boss and the 3 extra curse Null Damage cards always seemed to come out at the worst time (7 point backstab DENIED). Any tips for this one? Is our party comp bad? We managed to do 17 damage to the boss (who has 30 hps) but we got unlucky with boss abilities and he opened 2 doors we couldn't deal with the Living Corpses, Living Bones, and Archers while also maintaining any sort of boss DPS (it also hurt that our damage was spread out as hell)
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Jul 28, 2018 14:48
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SalTheBard posted:Scenario 2: Scoundrel (Me), Mind Thief, and Cragheart. We got loving destroyed in this scenario. Our DPS couldn't keep up with the boss and the 3 extra curse Null Damage cards always seemed to come out at the worst time (7 point backstab DENIED). Any tips for this one? Is our party comp bad? We managed to do 17 damage to the boss (who has 30 hps) but we got unlucky with boss abilities and he opened 2 doors we couldn't deal with the Living Corpses, Living Bones, and Archers while also maintaining any sort of boss DPS (it also hurt that our damage was spread out as hell) Sounds like you just had bad RNG, and that's the worst way to lose  The overall strat for that one tends to be just bum rush the boss and ignore everything else until he's dead. Don't spread damage around unless you absolutely have to. The archers can be annoying so you may want to deal with them but you can safely ignore the corpses until after the boss is dead. They move really slow and you can just clean them up at the end. Scoundrel should set up a Smoke Bomb in the middle of the room into a fast move and a Backstab the next turn. Make sure you can always reach him no matter where he goes and hope you don't draw a curse. Then just stab stab stab. Mindthief's summon is normally pretty bad but in this one specific scenario it's not bad if you summon it near the middle of the boss room. Otherwise just stab him with Frigid Apparition and obviously always have Mind's Weakness active. Don't bother with ranged attacks since they're low damage and he's immune to most statuses anyway. Just stab like crazy. Go in on a late initiative to go in for a stab, then next turn go on a fast initiative to stab and run away. Repeat. Stab stab stab. Cragheart should equip Backup Ammo first thing and throw rocks at everything. Stick to ranged attacks to maximize the bonus targets and xp unless you have no choice but to melee. Being able to target both the boss and an archer in the same attack is fun and awesome. Always try to position yourself to do so. Crack your stamina potions on turns when you use powerful cards together in order to do the same combo 2 turns in a row. Also remember that if you want the chest you have to let the boss open that second door before you kill him because players cannot open doors in that scenario. Only the boss can. Yeah it sucks. Good luck! Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 15:43
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million dollar mack posted:That scenario is objectively the worst one in the game Highly depends on party composition. We had Sun, Cthulhu, Circles, and Cragheart and had very little trouble. Granted, we unlocked it around L3 and were L6-7 before actually attempting it. I'll second the vote for scenario 26 as extremely tough (largely because you have to plan and play very differently because of the win condition). Probably harder than 72 until you figure out an approach, because you may have to take multiple cards you don't usually use, or, in some parties, do some purchasing.
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Jul 28, 2018 16:05
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Doctor Spaceman posted:81 is where we're headed next, after having unlocked it months ago.
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Jul 29, 2018 14:06
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Our group had our first retirement last night. Scoundrel unlocked Two Minis and this was our collective reaction:    Our Spellweaver wants to retire ASAP and play it now. Since our Scoundrel player's wife is having their first baby next week he is dropping out of the group until he has more time to play and he won't be creating a new character for a while. He was kind enough to enhance Smoke Bomb with Strengthen and donate to the sanctuary. He already had jump on his initiative 5 move 5 so the next person to play the Scoundrel is going to be set. My Mindthief hit level 7 and I am basically god now. I will murder everything. Our Spellweaver hit 7 too and is hype for his new card but also went crazy over Two Minis so he'll be playing that soon. My wife's Tankerer hit 7 as well and she's finally decided that she wants to retire and play Sun after avoiding retirement for a long time. Oh and we're 1 donation away from Prosperity 3 so we have that to look forward to. Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jul 29, 2018 |
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Jul 29, 2018 16:06
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Elephant Ambush posted:Our group had our first retirement last night. Scoundrel unlocked Two Minis and this was our collective reaction: Two-Minis spoilers Two-Minis is pretty great except the bear follows summon rules and it can get pretty annoying on higher levels. Want him to use his focused rage on the bandit standing next to him? Too bad the enemy with shield 4 and retaliate 4 is next to him and lower initiative. Plus sometimes your allies will kill the guy you were planning on murdering and suddenly your bear is running his rear end across the map through traps towards his next target. Basically he's a great class but managing summons can be a bit irritating
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Jul 29, 2018 20:25
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Haroshia posted:Two-Minis spoilers Yeah that's what I figured. I told the guy who wants to play it to study up on summon movement. Could you explain how the bottom of Concentrated Rage works? I just finished reading 2 different class guides and both of them imply that you can add the attack values of your attack actions to the bear for the turn but that's not even close to what the card actually says. Basically to me it says "skip your top action, regardless of what it is, to add +3 atk to the bear for the turn" and "skip your bottom action, regardless of what it is, to add +3 move to the bear for the turn". Do I just have poor reading skills or has there been errata issued or something? Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 29, 2018 |
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Jul 29, 2018 21:03
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Elephant Ambush posted:Yeah that's what I figured. I told the guy who wants to play him to study up on summon movement. The power of that card is that it also applies to whichever action you aren't skipping. Sacrifice one top action and use a bottom action that has two attacks on it, and you effectively get +9 attack for that round, so long as that action is a Command action.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:09
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Elephant Ambush posted:Yeah that's what I figured. I told the guy who wants to play him to study up on summon movement. Summons just follow monster AI. They focus the closest target and move to attack it, and if there's a tie they go for the lower initiative. This means the bear can get himself in a lot of trouble since there are some monsters you REALLY don't want to melee, so having Patch Fur is a must. Keeping the bear alive is a priority since if he goes down you're basically an unarmored low damage squishy rat. If you forgo taking a top action you add +3 to the bear's attacks for the ROUND. If you forgo taking a bottom action you add +3 to his movement. It happens BEFORE the bear gets a turn though, which means his start of turn auto-attack is actually +5 instead of +2, and any bottom action attacks you use (which there are a lot of) also add +3. The confusion might be because the guides are talking about adding +3 to bottom attack command actions. It can get really buck wild if you have classes that let you attack AGAIN since the +3 buff lasts for the entire round.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:15
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Notably, with the right allies: if you can GRANT attacks to the Bear Buddy, Concentrated Rage applies to those as well. There are classes that can do this...
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Jul 29, 2018 21:31
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:The power of that card is that it also applies to whichever action you aren't skipping. Sacrifice one top action and use a bottom action that has two attacks on it, and you effectively get +9 attack for that round, so long as that action is a Command action. Oh I think I get it. You skip any top action for yourself to add +3 atk to the bear, then use a bottom command attack card to boost the bear's attack even more. This obviously assumes that the bear is already adjacent to an enemy. Is that right?
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Jul 29, 2018 21:38
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Elephant Ambush posted:Oh I think I get it. You skip any top action for yourself to add +3 atk to the bear, then use a bottom command attack card to boost the bear's attack even more. This obviously assumes that the bear is already adjacent to an enemy. Is that right? Not quite, if I'm reading you right. You add +3 to the bear's own automatic attack, making it do a move 3 attack 5 action before your turn. Then, if you use a bottom action which makes the bear attack again, that action also gets +3 to any attacks it might have. The bear has its own turn before the Beast Tyrant's, but Command actions are cards you can play on the Tyrant's turn as if they were the bear's action, rather than the Beast Tyrant's own.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:41
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