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I read Lupe’s example and said, of course, of course, that’s how you do it, who doesn’t know that? And then I realized that I spent a decade not knowing how that worked (thanks for nothing, D&D!). So, I guess if I ever publish a game I’m going to have to include a balloon animal sidebar. Is there a game expansion for pixel art comics?
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Jul 27, 2018 15:33
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DalaranJ posted:Is there a game expansion for pixel art comics? I think Retro Phaze is your jam for that
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Jul 27, 2018 15:40
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there had loving better be Classes: Fighter, Black Mage, Thief, Elaborate D&D Joke, Mega Man Recolor
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Jul 27, 2018 15:55
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:This is presupposing things about the nature of rpgs that don't need to be presupposed. Some (popular) tabletop games are primarily about combat but that doesn't mean that you can't make a cool tabletop game that genuinely is about other sorts of puzzles. I mean yes if someone made an RPG where doing Sudoku is the primary mechanical way of engaging with the game, then Sudoku would in fact be a good puzzle. I'm exaggerating a bit for effect here, but we're really talking past each other if I'm making an argument about puzzles in at least 90% of RPGs that exist today, versus you talking about how, hypothetically, an RPG could be based on game book puzzles and riddles.
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Jul 27, 2018 15:56
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Is it just CAD with PA for flavour or are they going to branch out? I can respect a well-aimed parody with far too much effort put into it (see the Duckman RPG), but seems narrow. I remember reading far too many mediocre gaming comics back then. Shortpacked might count as an honorary member.
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Jul 27, 2018 15:57
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My Lovely Horse posted:there had loving better be Kidd Radd RPG?
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Jul 27, 2018 15:58
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I don't want to reread Bob and George after a decade lest it loses its luster
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Jul 27, 2018 15:58
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Is it just CAD with PA for flavour or are they going to branch out? I can respect a well-aimed parody with far too much effort put into it (see the Duckman RPG), but seems narrow. I remember reading far too many mediocre gaming comics back then. Shortpacked might count as an honorary member. If it's the game I think, I've actually chatted with the designer about it exactly that, and the consensus was it'd be a snap to expand it to other types of comics. I was specifically pushing for an expansion aimed at hoary old RPG comics like Nodwick and Knights of the Dinner Table.
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Jul 27, 2018 15:59
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How Not To Run A Comic ironically hasn't aged that well, but it's still an achingly accurate time capsule.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:08
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fool_of_sound posted:I mean yes if someone made an RPG where doing Sudoku is the primary mechanical way of engaging with the game, then Sudoku would in fact be a good puzzle. I'm exaggerating a bit for effect here, but we're really talking past each other if I'm making an argument about puzzles in at least 90% of RPGs that exist today, versus you talking about how, hypothetically, an RPG could be based on game book puzzles and riddles. To me the interesting question is what makes a scene in a game fun or engaging and I promise has nothing to do with swords or fighting monsters even if there are a lot of similar games in which you do that. There are plenty of RPG sessions, some even labelled "D&D", where the players spent most of the time thinking their way through situations and coming up with solutions using their player brains rather than choosing an appropriate power from a list and moving around tokens in grid combat. It's okay not to like one sort of puzzle, and it's okay not to like the other, but it's weird to call grid combat good but other sorts of puzzles bad, just because like, a lot of people write books about the former.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:11
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I used sudoku as an example of a bad one - the whole point is that games are centered on combat because that's what the designers like and want themselves, not because that is a fundamental element of RPGs while other sorts of puzzles aren't. It's like... here's why games still bother with social stats and intellectual stats: So that players can feel like the big drat hero even when they are not. Stutter? Can't hold a tune? You are still allowed to play a bard. Can't solve a puzzle and you're not much of a reader? You can still play the smartest man in the world. The game shouldn't test the player on their character's stats. Ever. And it only ever happens to intellectual and social stats. No DM ever makes you go for a long loving jog to prove your constitution is that high. There's a disconnect there and it's pretty apparent if you stop and think about it for even a second. Now if you happen to have a group of friends that really like puzzle solving and ignoring actual mechanics, well that's great. Exception to the rule.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:18
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theironjef posted:No DM ever makes you go for a long loving jog to prove your constitution is that high. Someone post the dragon magazine alternate rule where this is in fact the case
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Jul 27, 2018 16:20
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theironjef posted:It's like... here's why games still bother with social stats and intellectual stats: So that players can feel like the big drat hero even when they are not. Stutter? Can't hold a tune? You are still allowed to play a bard. Can't solve a puzzle and you're not much of a reader? You can still play the smartest man in the world. The game shouldn't test the player on their character's stats. Ever. And it only ever happens to intellectual and social stats. No DM ever makes you go for a long loving jog to prove your constitution is that high. There's a disconnect there and it's pretty apparent if you stop and think about it for even a second. This. We don't don't have stick fights to resolve combat. Not anymore anyway.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:21
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fool_of_sound posted:Someone post the dragon magazine alternate rule where this is in fact the case It happened to me on a campaign on these forums not long ago!
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Jul 27, 2018 16:23
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I usually ask my players to describe how they approach social action, like "you want to buddy up to the duke? ok, you go up and turn on your charm. what do you make small talk about?". This is mostly for RP purposes, but I'll usually give a bonus if they pick something they remember the duke is interested in.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Is it just CAD with PA for flavour or are they going to branch out? I can respect a well-aimed parody with far too much effort put into it (see the Duckman RPG), but seems narrow. I remember reading far too many mediocre gaming comics back then. Shortpacked might count as an honorary member. Skimming it, CAD is certainly seems to be the strongest inspiration but there's elements that are either obviously from another comic or very obviously not a thing CAD had. The Weird One is really more of a Pintsize (Questionable Content) than Zeke (who is more of a The Evil One) and the more down-to-earth side of The Evil One (the character who is scheming or cruel but not murderous) is just straight-up absent from CAD. One of the Drama examples is from Dumbing of Age which is neither a gaming comic nor a 00's comic. I'm 100% sure I've seen every non-CAD element somewhere, though I've thankfully forgotten enough to not be able to tell you where for most of them.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:33
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The only webcomic I want an RPG for is Hitmen for Destiny.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:41
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theironjef posted:It's like... here's why games still bother with social stats and intellectual stats: So that players can feel like the big drat hero even when they are not. Stutter? Can't hold a tune? You are still allowed to play a bard. Can't solve a puzzle and you're not much of a reader? You can still play the smartest man in the world. The game shouldn't test the player on their character's stats. Ever. And it only ever happens to intellectual and social stats. No DM ever makes you go for a long loving jog to prove your constitution is that high. There's a disconnect there and it's pretty apparent if you stop and think about it for even a second. Of course, you're still assuming D&D as a context which is pretty narrow - it's not like you can't play another game where puzzle solving is part of the mechanics. There are many types of obstacles you can give your players to work around and I think a lot of them are more interesting than grid combat.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Is it just CAD with PA for flavour or are they going to branch out? I can respect a well-aimed parody with far too much effort put into it (see the Duckman RPG), but seems narrow. I remember reading far too many mediocre gaming comics back then. Shortpacked might count as an honorary member. While researching for this I brushed up on Penny Arcade, CAD, PvP, the Walkyverse comics, Megatokyo, Mac Hall, VG Cats, Questionable Content, Fanboys, Loserz, Full Frontal Nerdity, Life of Riley, and Real Life Comics. There's a little of all of them in there, I hope. (I also found some other comics. Have you read God Mode? Look at this poo poo.) I also looked at 8-Bit Theater but I'm not planning a sprite thing right now, partly because I'm just doing this for fun at the moment but also because: Plutonis posted:I don't want to reread Bob and George after a decade lest it loses its luster
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Jul 27, 2018 16:44
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theironjef posted:The game shouldn't test the player on their character's stats. Ever. And it only ever happens to intellectual and social stats. No DM ever makes you go for a long loving jog to prove your constitution is that high. There's a disconnect there and it's pretty apparent if you stop and think about it for even a second. And yeah, I agree my character may be smarter than me (or maybe dumber); and they may be better at talking to people (or maybe worse) and it's totally fair to leverage mechanics for that if the game provides those tools. But it's not all too weird when a game doesn't, or only does so inconsistently. Like, I'm playing Trog the Barbarian and he has a huge penalty to whatever talk-nice ability the game has. We're asking an NPC for help with something or other. I expect we're playing that out that conversation, rather than just saying "Trog talks to the NPC (roll dice)." (unless it'd be boring.) Because I'm talking for Trog, is it fair if we talk through it and resolve it without any dice hitting the table? Should there be a new failure chance for Trog's bad talky-talk skill? Should there be a bonus or penalty based on the conversation we just roleplayed - and is that fair at all if Trog's poo poo at talking?
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Jul 27, 2018 16:57
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NinjaDebugger posted:The only webcomic I want an RPG for is Hitmen for Destiny. Oglaf 
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Jul 27, 2018 16:58
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theironjef posted:It's like... here's why games still bother with social stats and intellectual stats: So that players can feel like the big drat hero even when they are not. Stutter? Can't hold a tune? You are still allowed to play a bard. Can't solve a puzzle and you're not much of a reader? You can still play the smartest man in the world. The game shouldn't test the player on their character's stats. Ever. And it only ever happens to intellectual and social stats. No DM ever makes you go for a long loving jog to prove your constitution is that high. There's a disconnect there and it's pretty apparent if you stop and think about it for even a second. It winds me up when a player who's socially confident, but playing something like a utterly asocial techie still blathers their way through the social stuff without a skill roll because the GM doesn't want to say, "Yeah, you still have to roll." In my current game I've got a player who took a precog ability and sometimes uses it to test the waters on whether he should do something, most recently was "If I try to socialise with the people from my home planet, does it go well?" Situations like that I have him do the skill check at the point of pre-cogging and it sticks if he follows up with the action.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:00
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NinjaDebugger posted:The only webcomic I want an RPG for is Hitmen for Destiny. Alfie
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Jul 27, 2018 17:02
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Ettin posted:While researching for this I brushed up on Penny Arcade, CAD, PvP, the Walkyverse comics, Megatokyo, Mac Hall, VG Cats, Questionable Content, Fanboys, Loserz, Full Frontal Nerdity, Life of Riley, and Real Life Comics. There's a little of all of them in there, I hope. quote:(I also found some other comics. Have you read God Mode? Look at this poo poo.) 
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Jul 27, 2018 17:21
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Lupercalcalcal posted:*snip* This was a real good post and I shared it with some friends of mine.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:22
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Ettin posted:(I also found some other comics. Have you read God Mode? Look at this poo poo.) That one! I remember reading it when I was 14 and would read anything that was free and about video games. Actually an excellent case study in what The Evil One can be in these types of comics. And of how some of the humour from that era was really bad, like the joke about trans prostitutes. ...can I go back in time and murder my 14-year-old self?
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Jul 27, 2018 17:23
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mllaneza posted:Oglaf Oglaf is great but there are approximately 0 people I could ever play it with.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:34
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theironjef posted:Now if you happen to have a group of friends that really like puzzle solving and ignoring actual mechanics, well that's great. Exception to the rule. I still don't see why these are mutually exclusive, I think players should be allowed both to feel clever and also to feel as though their character investment has panned out. Placing a puzzle with clear rules on how they can skill past it or letting them roleplay around it offers your players several layers of exlression and let's them feel like they overcame a problem. I agree "solve puzzle to unlock door" solutions aren't great generally, but I think a character busting that door open or just taking apart the puzzle artifice and getting in that way are cool character moments.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:53
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dwarf74 posted:I get it, but the disconnect is because "talking" and "thinking" are still core activities players expect to do in RPGs. They're indispensable elements of gameplay. (And you can do them in Dave's mom's basement without spilling the doritos.) Social and intellectual stats are crutches, same as physical ones. Good crutches. Stilts even. You can RP all you want (and you should!), and if you're terrible at social intrigue or whatever you should still be allowed to make your roll with a bonus, or unencumbered by penalty, because the stats are setting the floor for what your character can accomplish. Conversely, they also represent limits. If Trog the Barbarian has a ludicrously low skill in this game's social whatever, and the player translates that to "Him am deeply thoughtful and socially capable but him talk like unfrozen caveman lawyer" then that's a problem, because why would you bother investing in the social whatever skill? You can just bypass it anyway. Now if you want to RP Trog as saying something horrible because he's bad at this, then hell yeah, do it. I'm not made of stone and that poo poo is funny. My sole objection is where players can tank stats and get the benefits of them anyway. Maybe in some games social stats just don't need to exist (hell in a lot of games I like they don't). But when they do and are things you build around, they accomplish two goals. They let players represent themselves with better skill than that player actually has. And they protect that player's spotlight time from another player with those social skills who chose a different thing as their spotlight. And both of those things are good. theironjef fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jul 27, 2018 |
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Jul 27, 2018 17:54
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Plutonis posted:It happened to me on a campaign on these forums not long ago! Ettin posted:I also looked at 8-Bit Theater but I'm not planning a sprite thing right now, partly because I'm just doing this for fun at the moment but also because: Can also do sample art. At the risk of giving away more than I'd like, I'm sure I haven't lost the touch.
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Jul 27, 2018 18:06
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LatwPIAT posted:That one! I remember reading it when I was 14 and would read anything that was free and about video games. When you think about it, we did.
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Jul 27, 2018 18:22
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My Lovely Horse posted:Mod Challenge: the RPG It was a teacher punishing my reluctant school delinquent character by forcing her to run several laps on the gym lol
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Jul 27, 2018 18:27
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Kibner posted:This was a real good post and I shared it with some friends of mine. Thanks. The crunch of game theory, in the sense of "how we play games and how we model that" is something that really captures my attention. If it's something that interests you I can recommend in the strongest possible terms Vincent Baker's talk from Ropecon in 2013.
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Jul 27, 2018 18:47
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NinjaDebugger posted:Oglaf is great but there are approximately 0 people I could ever play it with.
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Jul 27, 2018 18:51
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There's probably a way of making a sexual comedy game, with the understanding that the focus is on dirty jokes, not dwelling on the actual loving. You would definitely need the right group though.
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Jul 27, 2018 18:57
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fool_of_sound posted:There's probably a way of making a sexual comedy game, with the understanding that the focus is on dirty jokes, not dwelling on the actual loving. You would definitely need the right group though. The Tales of Ribaldry RPG featuring Jon Lovitz. You can do as much bawdy solicitation and steamy innuendo as you care to do, but if anyone has any sex the game pans back out to Jon Lovitz, who expresses his dissapointment with you and changes the scene. Character classes include "Strapping Young Bootblack" and "Wench with Her Bosoms a'Heaving"
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Jul 27, 2018 19:36
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theironjef posted:The Tales of Ribaldry RPG featuring Jon Lovitz. You can do as much bawdy solicitation and steamy innuendo as you care to do, but if anyone has any sex the game pans back out to Jon Lovitz, who expresses his dissapointment with you and changes the scene.
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Jul 27, 2018 19:46
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theironjef posted:You can do as much bawdy solicitation and steamy innuendo as you care to do, but if anyone has any sex the game pans back out to Jon Lovitz, who expresses his dissapointment with you and changes the scene.
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Jul 27, 2018 19:49
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theironjef posted:The Tales of Ribaldry RPG featuring Jon Lovitz. You can do as much bawdy solicitation and steamy innuendo as you care to do, but if anyone has any sex the game pans back out to Jon Lovitz, who expresses his dissapointment with you and changes the scene.
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Jul 27, 2018 19:49
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Ettin posted:While researching for this I brushed up on Penny Arcade, CAD, PvP, the Walkyverse comics, Megatokyo, Mac Hall, VG Cats, Questionable Content, Fanboys, Loserz, Full Frontal Nerdity, Life of Riley, and Real Life Comics. There's a little of all of them in there, I hope. You should add some edgy flash cartoons in as well like Neurotically Yours
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Jul 27, 2018 20:16
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