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Cardiac posted:If this thread was representative of Sweden (lol) roughly 1/4 of the male posters (ie most on SA) would be SD supporters. Whereas I would estimate this thread to contain on the order of 90% V voters. I'm a V politician as of last year, does that count? 
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Jul 22, 2018 22:40
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congratulations!
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Jul 22, 2018 23:46
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MiddleOne posted:I'm a V politician as of last year, does that count? Is this true? If so, that's awesome.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:33
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It's amazing that people are still willing to do the old "Please define racism" song and dance with Nils ten years on. There is literally no configuration of words that will do the job.
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Jul 23, 2018 03:44
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MiddleOne posted:I'm a V politician as of last year, does that count? What's your view of V from the inside? Be honest On an unrelated note, today I got a letter from Centerpartiet with voting slips. In England. Went straight to the bin SplitSoul posted:It's amazing that people are still willing to do the old "Please define racism" song and dance with Nils ten years on. There is literally no configuration of words that will do the job. Imo the problem is that there are legitimate issues with the immigration policy (in Sweden at least) but that until recently the only party that seemed to talk about it was SD. They cornered the market on being critical of immigration and when inevitable complications arise from accepting as many people as Sweden has it legitimizes SD in the eyes of the voters. If you strongly feel that the immigration policy is a failure then it's not so strange you'd vote for the party that has been the loudest about how bad it is, especially considering that both blocks are responsible for how the situation looks now. The flipside to that of course is that SD is a racist party, and if you are a racist they're your go to guys, and in my head I keep thinking that there's a difference between the guy who has legit grievances about immigration and the racist yokel, but if the end effect is that they empower racists, does intent matter? Beeswax posted:Sweden has immigration-related problems, but SD is the worst equipped bunch to solve them. Well yes, just looking at their LGBT plank is enough to convince me they're run by malicious bigots, and giving them any real power to ostensibly "fix" immigration is delusional at best, but people have little faith in the other parties, which is why they in desperation turn to the quacks and snake oil salespeople. Just curious, which municipality was it, if you don't mind me asking? McCloud fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 12:05
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Sweden has immigration-related problems, but SD is the worst equipped bunch to solve them. Also, I did an internship with V in my old home municipality as part of my degree. It was about what you would expect. Good ideals, pragmatic local politicians, overall good bunch.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:32
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McCloud posted:What's your view of V from the inside? Be honest Filled with way more sympathetic and capable people than I expected when I originally joined up.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:08
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MiddleOne posted:Filled with way more sympathetic and capable people than I expected when I originally joined up. Are you on the ballot?
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Jul 23, 2018 16:41
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McCloud posted:Imo the problem is that there are legitimate issues with the immigration policy (in Sweden at least) but that until recently the only party that seemed to talk about it was SD. They cornered the market on being critical of immigration and when inevitable complications arise from accepting as many people as Sweden has it legitimizes SD in the eyes of the voters. If you strongly feel that the immigration policy is a failure then it's not so strange you'd vote for the party that has been the loudest about how bad it is, especially considering that both blocks are responsible for how the situation looks now. This is along the same lines as the excuse people are fielding in Denmark, "Oh, nobody could say peep about immigration in the '90s without being called racist and worse, that's why they won and the only reasonable course of action now is to overbid the racists on the racism". It's empirically untrue. The parliamentary racists were openly pushing for ethnic cleansing and opposed to the very concept of integration back then, while the establishment parties were trying more measured policies - until the Social Democrats implemented the most restrictive change since 1973, before the racists even had any real power, and no measure has come close since.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:43
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Potrzebie posted:Are you on the ballot? On the ballot, highly unlikely to not have a seat after the election.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:57
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MiddleOne posted:I'm a V politician as of last year, does that count? I had you pegged as S or MP, since you have shown more understanding of the parliamentary process than the common poster here. As well as having a more cynical view of politics in general, compared to the more idealistic usually seen for V. Or maybe you are making a career move and joining V since they are on an upward path? McCloud posted:Imo the problem is that there are legitimate issues with the immigration policy (in Sweden at least) but that until recently the only party that seemed to talk about it was SD. They cornered the market on being critical of immigration and when inevitable complications arise from accepting as many people as Sweden has it legitimizes SD in the eyes of the voters. If you strongly feel that the immigration policy is a failure then it's not so strange you'd vote for the party that has been the loudest about how bad it is, especially considering that both blocks are responsible for how the situation looks now. Two things to keep in mind about SD. 1. Politics is a game of trust and SD is the most trusted party when it comes to immigration. Which is readily obvious given the swing that S&M have done in immigration without the subsequent rise in polls. 2. SD have in the last 4 years spent a whole lot of time and money on broadening their politics and are now making inroads among those who wonders why they pay tax and get nothing. They are now transforming from a party focused on immigration to a true populist party.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:01
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I don't think V has any shortage of cynics these days, especially if we'd start talking climate change. I think I mentioned in the last thread that I campaigned for S back in both elections of 2014. Like a lot of former social democrats I grew disenfranchised with the party through these last few years due to the many failings and course changes made by the government.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:14
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SplitSoul posted:This is along the same lines as the excuse people are fielding in Denmark, "Oh, nobody could say peep about immigration in the '90s without being called racist and worse, that's why they won and the only reasonable course of action now is to overbid the racists on the racism". It's empirically untrue. The parliamentary racists were openly pushing for ethnic cleansing and opposed to the very concept of integration back then, while the establishment parties were trying more measured policies - until the Social Democrats implemented the most restrictive change since 1973, before the racists even had any real power, and no measure has come close since. I can't speak for Denmark, but for Sweden that was pretty much the case. The ĺsiktskorridor was a thing up until...3-4 years ago? Just a few years ago the migration secretary Tobias Bilström wanted to reduce the number of immigrants the country takes in and was savaged for it in the press. The unwillingness to change or criticize the immigration system is what allowed SD to enter a win win situation. Either you debate SD, where they play(prey?) on xenophobia and appeal to baser instincts, and where they can criticize the ruling parties for the problems caused by their policies, or you ignore them and they fester like a disease. I used to think that you could just face them in debates and show them for what they are, but I've come to realize that's a fools game. The more exposure you give their ideals, the more it spreads. Cardiac posted:I had you pegged as S or MP, since you have shown more understanding of the parliamentary process than the common poster here. Their "broadening" is just stealing the party plank of other parties though, and I think people are still savvy enough to know they have little to offer besides hatorade against brown people. At least for now. MiddleOne posted:I don't think V has any shortage of cynics these days, especially if we'd start talking climate change. I have this impression that S are more concerned about their careers than anything else. Same with M. Not sure how true that is. V is the party with more passionate people who actually care, but some of them have some real weird ideas about some poo poo. Imo.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:23
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MiddleOne posted:On the ballot, highly unlikely to not have a seat after the election. On what level? I'd vote goon for Stockholm  E: I guess you might not want to answer that, considering it would open up to doxxing.
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Jul 23, 2018 23:57
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McCloud posted:I can't speak for Denmark, but for Sweden that was pretty much the case. The ĺsiktskorridor was a thing up until...3-4 years ago? Just a few years ago the migration secretary Tobias Bilström wanted to reduce the number of immigrants the country takes in and was savaged for it in the press. The unwillingness to change or criticize the immigration system is what allowed SD to enter a win win situation. Either you debate SD, where they play(prey?) on xenophobia and appeal to baser instincts, and where they can criticize the ruling parties for the problems caused by their policies, or you ignore them and they fester like a disease. Seems like it's basically a play-by-play of the past 20 years of Danish politics with a slight delay. We've arrived at no-poo poo legal apartheid for poor immigrants, "third-generation" and all, less than 20 years later.
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Jul 24, 2018 00:48
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McCloud posted:Their "broadening" is just stealing the party plank of other parties though, and I think people are still savvy enough to know they have little to offer besides hatorade against brown people. At least for now. Stealing the politics of other parties is politics 101. As example see S first decrying and then adopting Ms proposals the last couple of years. Only extreme ideological parties that refuse to adopt doesnt do that. Also, apparently 20% of the population doesnt see it that way. McCloud posted:I have this impression that S are more concerned about their careers than anything else. Same with M. Not sure how true that is. V is the party with more passionate people who actually care, but some of them have some real weird ideas about some poo poo. Well, M have always treated their party leader as a CEO, where political failure means he/she gets kicked out. For M focusing on the political career is not necessarily a bad thing as it goes hand in hand with the party mentality.
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Jul 24, 2018 07:57
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M in Stockholm veritably see profiteering off politics as a virtue.Potrzebie posted:On what level? I'd vote goon for Stockholm Fun fact: Personal campaigning, such as asking people to vote for your name, is actually grounds for exclusion in V.
MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 08:56
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MiddleOne posted:Fun fact: Personal campaigning, such as asking people to vote for your name, is actually grounds for exclusion in V. Which is kinda fun considering V is a collectivist party full of individualists. Also, given history the policy is kinda obvious since the left have long been pioneers in entryism. I guess that is also one reason why V havent had the same issue with islamists as all the other parties have had.
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Jul 24, 2018 12:06
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MiddleOne posted:I'm a V politician as of last year, does that count? Congrats, if you're on the national ballot you'll be getting a vote from me Being an overseas swede makes it hard to keep up with politics, since all the newspapers seem hell-bent on paywalling all the news.
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Jul 24, 2018 18:23
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MiddleOne posted:Fun fact: Personal campaigning, such as asking people to vote for your name, is actually grounds for exclusion in V. Huh. Well, that might be the best policy regarding that issue; or the worst. I have no idea what impact personröstning has had apart from Nazis abusing empty lists to win local seats.
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Jul 25, 2018 04:53
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I'm more of a Giáp guy than Pol Pot, but thanks for the av.
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Jul 25, 2018 12:21
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You know that you are a lovely communist dictator if the US are prepared to back you up.
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Jul 25, 2018 13:27
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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Potrzebie posted:I'm more of a Giáp guy than Pol Pot, but thanks for the av. Haha I have so many questions
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Jul 25, 2018 13:38
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I feel left out 
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Jul 25, 2018 13:50
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Retarded Goatee posted:You know that you are a lovely communist dictator if the US are prepared to back you up. And Kim Il-Sung and most of the international community until 1993, because a retardedly genocidal racist death cult is surely preferable to the Reds.
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Jul 25, 2018 18:13
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McCloud posted:Just curious, which municipality was it, if you don't mind me asking? Uppsala
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Jul 25, 2018 18:16
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Beeswax posted:Uppsala Florian has always seemed like a cool guy.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:45
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Just in case you didn't think that Scandinavia is a segregated society: https://twitter.com/KriseKarro/status/1022455091960406016
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Jul 26, 2018 14:12
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So she didn't get to start her masters due to being suicidal?
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Jul 27, 2018 20:34
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Outsider here, why is so much of european politics so heavily focused on migrants right now? What percentage of the population do they form in scandinavia, and isn't the constant focus on them drowning out discussion on economic issues?
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Jul 28, 2018 10:38
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mila kunis posted:Outsider here, why is so much of european politics so heavily focused on migrants right now? What percentage of the population do they form in scandinavia, and isn't the constant focus on them drowning out discussion on economic issues? Populists are desperate for anything to rally the docile masses against, and immigrants are what they always fall back on.
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Jul 28, 2018 10:42
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mila kunis posted:and isn't the constant focus on them drowning out discussion on Correct
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Jul 28, 2018 10:42
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mila kunis posted:Outsider here, why is so much of european politics so heavily focused on migrants right now? What percentage of the population do they form in scandinavia, and isn't the constant focus on them drowning out discussion on economic issues? It's something like 5% in reality, but you'd think it was at least 30 going by public discourse. It's at least in part due to the rise in populist and nativist parties. The center parties see racist rhetoric scoring tons of votes, and want to get a slice of that cake. And apparently doing so garners more votes than it costs them, so they keep it up. Plus it's a handy fall-back for issues you'd rather not talk about, like how the nativist and liberal parties in Denmark have a climate policy that boils down to "ignore it, it'll fix itself eventually."
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Jul 28, 2018 10:54
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:It's something like 5% in reality, but you'd think it was at least 30 going by public discourse. 17% in Sweden are foreign born. Immigration rates, primarily asylum seekers, have per capita been the highest in EU with roughly 4x the average since the 80s. Among the highest numbers in EU counting the absolute numbers. So, yeah, it is not a small thing.
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Jul 28, 2018 11:06
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Cardiac posted:17% in Sweden are foreign born. Included in those 17% are people from all over, including the US, Asia, Europe and even Scandinavia. The Middle Eastern and African people are a minority. The ridiculous fearmongering over the DANGEROUS BROWN HORDES COMING TO STEAL OUR JOBS WHILE BEING LAZY ON BENEFITS AND WEARING STRANGE CLOTHING is absolutely idiotic and appeals to the lowest forms of xenophobic fear and hate. The reason why we're seeing more asylum seekers is because we've been loving over their countries with wars for decades.
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Jul 28, 2018 11:13
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KozmoNaut posted:Included in those 17% are people from all over, including the US, Asia, Europe and even Scandinavia. The Middle Eastern and African people are a minority. By "we" you mean the US? It's unfair to blame most european countries for that. But regardless of who's at fault, it's weird to see such a big hubub if refugees are such a tiny portion of the population.
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Jul 28, 2018 11:28
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mila kunis posted:Outsider here, why is so much of european politics so heavily focused on migrants right now? What percentage of the population do they form in scandinavia, and isn't the constant focus on them drowning out discussion on economic issues? The right wing needs a scapegoat to distract from how they've hosed the rest of us over.
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Jul 28, 2018 11:33
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Zudgemud posted:So she didn't get to start her masters due to being suicidal? No, she didn't get to start her masters due to the school thinking that trans people are icky.
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Jul 28, 2018 11:49
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the migration issue in scandinavia is actually fairly interesting, because it illustrates how the reigning ideologies have shifted curiously, right-wing populism has manifested very differently in the different countries; what they have in common is a refutation of international solidarity being a Thing. this used to mean a hard line against foreign aid, and now means fundamental opposition to the refugee convention of 1951 basically, right-wing populism in scandinavia tends to reflect that we are now, collectively, rich combined with the not-unreasonable observation that nobody ever got richer through sharing. if you're still insecure in some way despite all this collective wealth, that's a fairly potent argument. add to this baseline populism re: common-sense and all the outright racists and you have a winner!
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Jul 28, 2018 11:49
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mila kunis posted:By "we" you mean the US? It's unfair to blame most european countries for that. Most European countries gladly jumped in and whole-heartedly supported the US.
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Jul 28, 2018 11:49
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