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Alright, gotta get back on track. Rookie first is fine, we don't really have a choice. If we're going to do a rookie draft with a 12hr timer then we've got to start right about now. August 1st at the latest I'd think. We could even do a slow auction for FA when it's all done if we had to. That would mean that we need to get rosters fixed by uhhhh today? Everyone needs to be under cap and IR fixed, and then 24hrs later we start the draft? So are we doing a slow draft or not?
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Jul 27, 2018 15:39
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does MFL have a trading block function? and if so, why is it impossible to find e: nvm I found it...the league-wide "trade bait" page can be accessed from your My Team page I just listed some good defensive players plus possible wife-beater shady mccoy Stevie Lee fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 27, 2018 |
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Jul 27, 2018 16:41
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So, just to feed into the debate more: the reason you don't calculate exactly how much you'll spend on rookies in advance is because you have the option of not drafting at any rookie draft pick, and you can also trade draft picks during the draft. There were at least a couple of trades made mid-draft last year, for example. There is also an opportunity to drop players after the rookie draft but before the free agent draft, right? Zauper posted:Last year our FA waiver run was August 30, draft was September 1. We did FA first. Dang, really? OK well.... I stand corrected I guess. OK Let's take a quick poll 1. Should we draft rookies first, or have a free agent auction first? 2. Should the rookie draft be a "slow draft," or a live draft? If you look at the "2017 Draft Schedule" tab of the spreadsheet, you'll see how we figured out when to hold the draft last year... I know there's some vacations and stuff but I can clone that sheet and we can give that a try again for at least the live free agent draft, and for the rookie draft too if we decide that's live as well.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:42
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Leperflesh posted:So, just to feed into the debate more: the reason you don't calculate exactly how much you'll spend on rookies in advance is because you have the option of not drafting at any rookie draft pick, and you can also trade draft picks during the draft. There were at least a couple of trades made mid-draft last year, for example. The flip side to this is that you can't fill your open roster slots with rookies, unless you can drop during the FA auction. With rookies, you also have the option of using taxi squad to move money around and make them fit. That doesn't work as well unless FA is first because of roster spot issues.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:46
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My votes: 1) FA first. 2) Don't care. E: though I will clarify that I'm highly unavailable for the next month+, and usually go to bed around 8:30 EST when I'm not, so I think trying to schedule two will be painful.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:47
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Leperflesh posted:If you look at the "2017 Draft Schedule" tab of the spreadsheet, you'll see how we figured out when to hold the draft last year... I know there's some vacations and stuff but I can clone that sheet and we can give that a try again for at least the live free agent draft, and for the rookie draft too if we decide that's live as well. Yeah lets clone that and get rolling. If we can't agree on a date (and scheduling two different drafts is going to be really hard) then we need to start a slow draft in the next week at the latest I'd think. Ninja edit: If we're doing one slow draft and one live draft then I think it makes sense to do the rookie slow draft first. It's not bidding against people, the rookie draft is just making a pick so it's more hands-off in my opinion.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:57
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Leperflesh posted:
1. No strong opinions 2. Leaning towards slow draft, but either way works
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Jul 27, 2018 18:29
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1. I prefer rookie's first, but I really don't care 2. I prefer slow draft but I'm sure I can sweet talk my wife to ignore me for 2 hours one evening if absolutely needed.
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Jul 27, 2018 19:21
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Leperflesh posted:1. Should we draft rookies first, or have a free agent auction first? 1) I have no strong opinions on which we do first. 2) I would prefer not to do a slow draft, but for the rookie draft it's more palatable.
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Jul 27, 2018 20:06
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Spermy Smurf posted:Rookies are a set payscale so I'm not sure why you can't just do the math of adding up your draft pick prices. Yeah that's my point. You know exactly how much you could and would be willing to spend per player before you get there whereas there's no way of knowing that entering the FA period which is why it behooves you to not have to account for more money you may or may not need later
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Jul 28, 2018 00:08
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I dont understand that post at all. I have read it a dozen times but it doesnt click for some reason. Not trying to be a smartass, I legitimately dont understand. Rookies are a set payscale. The instant we set the draft lineup is the instant you know how much you are going to spend on rookies. Having the FA auction first means you have all the cap space in the world to try to get that final piece to help your team win. Worst case is your rookies all get thrown on the taxi squad and cost you $0. There is no benefit to doing the rookies first and screwing with your cap as well as the number of players on your roster limit and THEN trying to squeeze in that one extra guy at $???
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Jul 28, 2018 00:19
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If I have 60 dollars in space and I have draft picks that, should I choose to use them, will total 35 in salary. I know for a fact I can spend 25 dollars in free agency plus any additional space from any cuts I'd like to make and shuttling salary to the taxi squad if i have 60 dollars in cap space entering a free agent draft, I have no idea how things will break and there may be players available for a price I'm willing to pay that i did not anticipate, but now I also have to factor in squirreling money away for the rookie draft, that I might not even use on top of that! makes it a lot more difficult to get in on those players I really have trouble understanding why anyone would want to enter an auction draft without a clear amount of cap space available. i don't want to have to do extra math i just feel like doing FA first is throwing in extra variables for no reason whatsoever Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 00:54
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Teemu Pokemon posted:
The first part is exactly my logic. gently caress yeah I get guys I want at a cheaper price than expected. It's a salary cap league and this is literally the reason I play it. If I get a steal on someone then I am going to drop one of my guys that are slightly higher than I want to pay and open up room for rookies. This is 100% the reason I joined a salary cap league. Nerding out is fun sometimes. The second part is alien to me. You are already doing math before. Who gives a poo poo if you do math after instead? You already know you need 28 in rookie salaries. You have 1 guy on your taxi that is easily cutable. Now you have 4 rookie picks and 4 taxi slots. Zero math needs to be done if you want. 28 dollars on taxi means $0 cap space so zero math. Right?
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Jul 28, 2018 01:03
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You keep acting like you know before the rookie draft exactly how much you will spend in the rookie draft. That is not necessarily the case. Please stop ignoring that fact.
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Jul 28, 2018 01:05
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But I know my max. So yes I do know my max rookie draft dollars. It is literally set in stone. There is zero deviation unless I trade.
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Jul 28, 2018 01:08
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Leperflesh posted:You keep acting like you know before the rookie draft exactly how much you will spend in the rookie draft. That is not necessarily the case. Please stop ignoring that fact. Most $ from the rookie draft can be TSed and/or is minimal. Put your first 4 picks on the TS and you're paying what, $1 per player? Meanwhile unless you can drop during the auction and draft, if you draft first you may find players you are willing to spend on going for less than you're willing to spend, but without roster spots to bid on them because you drafted too many late flyers - doing rookie first prevents you from using all your picks to fill slots. You have to keep in mind a rough budget for the rookie draft, recognizing the later players are super cheap vs Gambling on what others will bid to determine how many slots to leave open.
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Jul 28, 2018 01:12
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I admit that I dont understand anyones logic on rookies and being surprised by a salary that is written in our rules. That's odd to me. I am arguing for the sake of arguing here, if I can understand your mindset (Teemu and I have same mindset with completely different results) then maybe I can understand where you are coming from. We haven't done rookie before FA before and that (I thought) was by design. I really dont care which goes first but if we are going to slowdraft one of these things its gotta be soon. I would rather focus on "oh poo poo do we have to slow draft like we have never done before"
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Jul 28, 2018 01:19
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1. Rookies first. 2. Slow draft that starts this weekend. (if not, then live draft anytime in August)
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Jul 28, 2018 01:44
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1.10 is available for a 2019 1st.
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Jul 28, 2018 01:57
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Spermy Smurf posted:I admit that I dont understand anyones logic on rookies and being surprised by a salary that is written in our rules. That's odd to me. Not that I'm going to be surprised, it's actually the opposite. Since I for all intents and purposes know what I'm going to spend in the rookie draft, it makes more sense to me to first address the variable that I can somewhat control rather than jumping right to the more unpredictable thing that could completely change my strategies in the rookie draft once it's over Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 02:04
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Edit: nevermind. Not worth it. Let's figure out when draft starts. The rookie draft first is going to absolutely kill me. I have 13 guys on my 'to bid on' list. If I am unable to bid on 7 of them because I drafted rookies who will probably be cut in 12 months I dont know what to do. It's not how the real world works and I dont like it but I will have to deal with it. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 02:22
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Ash will not be back till the 7th at the earliest. He will need a few days to decompress after. Can't start a slow auction till then.
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Jul 28, 2018 02:39
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Where can I find draft pick costs? Tried looking on SS but couldn’t find it.
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Jul 28, 2018 02:46
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Rules doc. OP or bulletin board in the mfl site. In the first round, the first four picks are paid $17 In the first round, the fifth through eighth picks are paid $15 In the first round, the ninth through twelfth picks, plus the compensatory 1.13 pick, are paid $13 In the second round, the first through fourth picks are paid $11 In the second round, the fifth through eighth picks are paid $9 In the second round, the ninth through twelfth picks are paid $7 All players drafted in the third round are paid $5 All players drafted in the fourth round are paid $3 All remaining drafted players (fifth and later rounds) are paid $1
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Jul 28, 2018 02:49
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Spermy Smurf posted:But I know my max. So yes I do know my max rookie draft dollars. It is literally set in stone. There is zero deviation unless I trade. You can trade. And you can choose to skip picks. And we keep going till everyone is done taking picks, so you for example could choose to take six, seven, eight rookies if you want. It's clear to me that you are not looking at your own rookie draft this way, and that's fine. I haven't actually decided for myself yet, but I may well look at it that way, especially because I have no first round pick. Random example: suppose I'm hoping to draft for value in the second through fourth rounds. I don't really know what positions I might take, I'm just hoping to get the best player available. But, come round four, I've just taken two WRs, and the best values available are more WRs, and I decide that the next guy I'm actually wanting is probably still gonna be available in round five. So I try to trade my round four pick, and if I can't, I just skip it. I now have two dollars more in cap space (and possibly another roster slot) for a free agent. Or maybe I traded my pick and got a DE back, and now I don't need to pursue a DE in free agency. Another scenario: at the end of the first round, another owner suddenly announces his second 1st round pick is open to trade for one of my RBs. I decide to jump on the trade, and now I'm suddenly taking a $13 pick I hadn't expected! It's a good thing I haven't filled my cap space with an expensive free agent yet! And now I need a RB in free agency, too! It's a good thing the FA auction isn't already over, because it'd be too late to get a good RB. They're all gone now. This stuff is even more likely if we do a slow draft, which gives everyone gobs of time to trade picks mid-draft. Meanwhile: free agency is an auction. I have no idea whether I can get the players I want via auction, and may hesitate to bid high on a player in FA if a later rookie draft might get me the guy I want, but I'm not really sure. You're fortunate to have a 1.2 pick... my first pick is 2.05. I really don't want to have to decide now to potentially spend like $20 of my FAAB dollars to take a specific free agent before I find out if I could have gotten the rookie at that position that I'm hoping will fall to me at 2.05. Because if I pull the trigger on that FA, and then I do get that rook, I just wasted $20 of FAAB bucks, and I've got a free agent I can't put on taxi. I'd far rather get that taxi-eligible rookie at $9! But I can't count on it, at all, whereas I can guarantee getting the free agent (in a later FA draft) by simply determining to outbid everyone else. All of this is also just me arguing this side. I can live with it regardless of which draft goes first. It's not the end of the world either way and I hope there's no hard feelings. I'm just surprised that you're struggling to understand this perspective. Spermy Smurf posted:Edit: nevermind. Not worth it. Let's figure out when draft starts. Why would you be less able to bid on those 13 guys post-rookie-draft rather than pre-rookie-draft? You'll still have just as much FAAB dollars, and you've already pretty clearly stated that you feel you know exactly how much you're spending in the rookie draft, e.g. you're not anticipating trading for picks or skipping picks. Unless... OK, I think the deal is that you feel those free agents are strictly better than the rookies you might draft. If that's so, then you're saying once you have an undroppable rookie (at least between the two drafts) you no longer can bid a free agent who would take the same roster slot, because you just don't have the roster slot, whereas if you simply skipped that draft pick, you can't be sure you'll win that valuable FA so you could wind up with neither the rookie nor the FA? Yeah, that's a risk. I guess the deal is really: regardless of the order of the two drafts, we are all taking a risk that we take someone in one draft that isn't as good as the guy we really want in the following draft, and then regret it when it turns out we could have had that second guy after all. And I agree with that completely, but I think it's equally true in either direction and depends highly on whether you prefer the rookie or the FA in that specific case. This is the opportunity cost of taking a player, basically. The good thing is that even if we don't allow any drops between the rookie draft and the FA draft or vice-versa, you can still possibly use trades to clear space before, during, or after taking a pick/winning a bid, as long as you don't temporarily bust your cap. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 07:19
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It's a roster space question. Its not a "who is better" thing. I would rather have free agent vets than a rookie round 4+. There are great players in FA and I can likely get some of them for $1. If I can then I would trade my picks away. I sure as hell wouldnt skip 1.10, I would much rather trade that pick away. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 11:28
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Spermy Smurf posted:It's a roster space question. Its not a "who is better" thing. The offer is sitting in your inbox...
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Jul 28, 2018 13:21
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Leperflesh posted:You can trade. And you can choose to skip picks. And we keep going till everyone is done taking picks, so you for example could choose to take six, seven, eight rookies if you want. quote:Another scenario: at the end of the first round, another owner suddenly announces his second 1st round pick is open to trade for one of my RBs. I decide to jump on the trade, and now I'm suddenly taking a $13 pick I hadn't expected! It's a good thing I haven't filled my cap space with an expensive free agent yet! quote:And now I need a RB in free agency, too! It's a good thing the FA auction isn't already over, because it'd be too late to get a good RB. They're all gone now. quote:Meanwhile: free agency is an auction. I have no idea whether I can get the players I want via auction, and may hesitate to bid high on a player in FA if a later rookie draft might get me the guy I want, but I'm not really sure. You're fortunate to have a 1.2 pick... my first pick is 2.05. I really don't want to have to decide now to potentially spend like $20 of my FAAB dollars to take a specific free agent before I find out if I could have gotten the rookie at that position that I'm hoping will fall to me at 2.05. Because if I pull the trigger on that FA, and then I do get that rook, I just wasted $20 of FAAB bucks, and I've got a free agent I can't put on taxi. I'd far rather get that taxi-eligible rookie at $9! But I can't count on it, at all, whereas I can guarantee getting the free agent (in a later FA draft) by simply determining to outbid everyone else. quote:Unless... OK, I think the deal is that you feel those free agents are strictly better than the rookies you might draft. If that's so, then you're saying once you have an undroppable rookie (at least between the two drafts) you no longer can bid a free agent who would take the same roster slot, because you just don't have the roster slot, whereas if you simply skipped that draft pick, you can't be sure you'll win that valuable FA so you could wind up with neither the rookie nor the FA?
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Jul 28, 2018 15:31
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I do see all your points. I think a lot of this comes down to something that ought to be the purview of the owner - decisions about what is the best strategy to build their team, whether to value rookies vs. free agents, how much FAAB money to blow before the season even starts, the relative value of roster (and taxi) slots vs. flexibility using free agency, etc. I'm reluctant to accept arguments that one order of the two drafts is definitely better than the other, when those arguments seem to mostly be predicated on decisions about what is optimal or best from a team-building perspective. I think you guys have presented good arguments though and I'm happy to let the poll decide.
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Jul 28, 2018 21:18
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Results so far:pre:1. Rookies first or free agent auction first 2. slow or live draft for rookies Name 1. 2. Zauper FA don't care The Zack don't care leaning slow draft Alfalfa Prefer Rookie 1st prefer slow draft Epi Lepi Don't care prefer live Stevie Lee Rookie 1st Slow starting this weekend, or live in August
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Jul 28, 2018 21:26
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I am obviously on the FA side. Not a huge deal I guess. I will figure something out.
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Jul 28, 2018 21:40
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pre:1. Rookies first or free agent auction first 2. slow or live draft for rookies Name 1. 2. Zauper FA don't care The Zack don't care leaning slow draft Alfalfa Prefer Rookie 1st prefer slow draft Epi Lepi Don't care prefer live Stevie Lee Rookie 1st Slow starting this weekend, or live in August Spermy Smurf FA ? Zauper pointed out that last year we did the FA draft first; absent a clear league preference I guess we should do that again. But let's see if we can't get a few more votes first.
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Jul 28, 2018 22:08
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Don't have a preference toward which goes first. Slow draft with the idea that nobody drags their feet (including me the draft dodger!) unnecessarily so we can try to get it completed sooner than later.
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Jul 29, 2018 02:01
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I'm obviously team rookies first. as for the draft, I'd prefer live but slow is fine
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Jul 29, 2018 12:55
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pre:1. Rookies first or free agent auction first 2. slow or live draft for rookies Name 1. 2. Zauper FA don't care The Zack don't care leaning slow draft Alfalfa Prefer Rookie 1st prefer slow draft Epi Lepi Don't care prefer live Stevie Lee Rookie 1st Slow starting this weekend, or live in August Spermy Smurf FA ? Chen Kenichi don't care slow draft Teemu Pokemon Rookie 1st prefer live Leperflesh don't care don't care
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Jul 30, 2018 01:08
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Prefer FA first and would prefer a live draft but don’t really mind either one.
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Jul 30, 2018 16:53
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Can we lock down logistics, order, type of draft, and schedule tonight by chance?
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Jul 30, 2018 17:21
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Alfalfa posted:Can we lock down logistics, order, type of draft, and schedule tonight by chance? Ash is out of town until the 7th, so we probably can't lock down everything until he's back. I'm also not sure if the spreadsheet for availability has been updated and linked yet or not?
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Jul 30, 2018 17:28
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pre:Name 1. 2. Zauper FA don't care The Zack don't care leaning slow draft Alfalfa Prefer Rookie 1st prefer slow draft Epi Lepi Don't care prefer live Stevie Lee Rookie 1st Slow starting this weekend, or live in August Spermy Smurf FA ? Chen Kenichi don't care slow draft Teemu Pokemon Rookie 1st prefer live Leperflesh don't care don't care Swarmin Swedes prefer FA first prefer live, don't mind tho Alfalfa, Vecna, Zauper; what are your respective time zones? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 18:36
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I've put up a new "2018 draft schedule" tab on the spreadsheet. You can put anything into your cells, or just tell me here and I'll fill them in. I'm going to read back a few pages in the thread and try to fill out what I can now. Red means you're not available, green means you are, and yellow contains a limited availability slot. For example, I'm available after about 9pm eastern (6pm pacific) on weeknights. I've also started the dates at Friday, August 17th, but we can add earlier dates if we need to. If we do a slow draft I assume everyone's nominally available to make picks at least by phone or something, and I guess we'd have to start it after Ash gets back, which means we'd need to push hard to get it done by sept 5 but maybe it's possible. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 18:47
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