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RZA Encryption posted:Why were all the ev-1s destroyed? I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation for it, but I just keep thinking "big oil got scared". Didn't the leasees love it? Ulf posted:There’s a pretty obscure documentary about it if you’re interested! non-snarky answer: a thousand gushing owners of your niche product doesn’t pay for the $$millions in federally mandated support you’d have to provide for the next decade on your weird exotic car that you designed, built, and leased at a loss anyway. In the end someone made a ruthless but financially sound decision to crush ‘em Ulf fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jul 27, 2018 |
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Jul 27, 2018 01:45
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Here’s the documentary https://archive.org/details/WhoKilledTheElectricCar123 Basically CARB backed off on the whole reason for the EV1 existing and GM decided it was easier to scrap the whole line rather than support it for the next few years.
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Jul 27, 2018 01:48
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What happened to Chevron's promise to commercialize the EV1s battery tech?
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Jul 27, 2018 15:24
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Jaguar is having some production issues with the new I-Pace: https://electrek.co/2018/07/26/jaguar-i-pace-delay/ I know, I know, Electrek is a Musk shell fake news outlet...  But for real, who could have anticipated high demand and manufacturing difficulty for a desirable electric car?? It does put a dent in the narrative of "Well, once the REAL car builders start making EVs Tesla has no chance." Also Porche is asking it's workers to pay for a new factory / factory overhaul: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-porsche-taycan-production-hell/ I'm not saying this is some outright evil. It might end up being a benefit to the workers. But just image what type of stories would be coming out if Tesla did something even remotely like this? Tesla looks like it might finally be turning the corner; they are steadily producing 4 - 5 k cars a week, profit margins are thought to be good, the performance model 3 gets glowing reviews all around and Q3 + Q4 should be profitable. Still, on the daily mainstream news outlets poo poo all over them. https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/26/technology/tesla-model-3-reservations/index.html No wonder Musk as a delusional persecution complex. I mean, I wish he would get his poo poo together and get of Twitter / hire a COO and just focus on pushing cool new vehicles at Tesla, he seems to be good at that. Hire a Gwynne Shotwell equivalent @ Tesla and just spend his time doing crazy tech projects like strapping rockets to the new roadster or whatever.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:28
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Wait. People are scared of the Taycan being competition for the S and they are aiming for 20k/year production numbers?! Isn't that less than half of the current S production? e: 24k for Q1 S+X. So... yeah.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:44
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I can't see 'Taycan' without snickering
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Jul 27, 2018 19:32
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spandexcajun posted:I know, I know, Electrek is a Musk shell fake news outlet... This but unironically. Do you have that coming from any legitimate news source?
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Jul 27, 2018 22:22
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I don’t have anything official (and I am certainly no Muskrat) but I too have been hearing rumblings that I-Pace production is a little behind. The thing is, Magna knows how to build cars, so I am pretty sure it’ll get on track without any tents being erected or design engineers being made to drive forklifts and work the production line.
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Jul 28, 2018 00:27
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spandexcajun posted:It does put a dent in the narrative of "Well, once the REAL car builders start making EVs Tesla has no chance." Does it? Tesla has been making electric cars for over a decade and by their own admission are not anywhere close to modern production standards. It Jaguar starts shipping i-Paces with panel gaps that you can fit a toaster in and hoods that don't shut we can talk. No one said buying a ground up electric car was easy or there wouldn't be setbacks, just that Elon should stop running his mouth about how amazing and revolutionary his production techniques are when he can't met the standards to ship a 10+ year old Audi. Three Olives fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 01:24
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spandexcajun posted:Jaguar is having some production issues with the new I-Pace: Well, there you're talking about another luxury brand. If any of the major players were to make a serious commitment to bringing electric cars fully into the mainstream, then Tesla would be in trouble. Thus far, VW is the only company that looks like they're making the sort of investment that could meaningfully challenge Tesla.
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Jul 28, 2018 02:19
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Cockmaster posted:Well, there you're talking about another luxury brand. If any of the major players were to make a serious commitment to bringing electric cars fully into the mainstream, then Tesla would be in trouble. Thus far, VW is the only company that looks like they're making the sort of investment that could meaningfully challenge Tesla. BMW is committed to 4.7B. Also Tesla is a luxury brand and their tax credits are phasing out, it's getting a little weird how they aren't held to the basic level standards of luxury cars given their pricing.
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Jul 28, 2018 02:28
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Three Olives posted:BMW is committed to 4.7B. Also Tesla is a luxury brand and their tax credits are phasing out, it's getting a little weird how they aren't held to the basic level standards of luxury cars given their pricing.
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Jul 28, 2018 03:35
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It would have been amazing if Telsa just ordered a bunch of bodies in white from ford and installed their mechanicals in them and actually had $39k before tax credit 3s.
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Jul 28, 2018 13:11
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Elephanthead posted:It would have been amazing if Telsa just ordered a bunch of bodies in white from ford and installed their mechanicals in them and actually had $39k before tax credit 3s. They should do that with the F150 and get a truck in the market. With their current release rate and production numbers, it'll be a decade before they get an original design out for 30%+ more than they marketed.
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Jul 28, 2018 14:56
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Phuzun posted:They should do that with the F150 and get a truck in the market. With their current release rate and production numbers, it'll be a decade before they get an original design out for 30%+ more than they marketed. Why would Ford ever sell F150 bodies to Tesla?
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Jul 28, 2018 15:08
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Why would Ford ever sell F150 bodies to Tesla? For the same reason as the post that I quoted.
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Jul 28, 2018 16:36
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Test drove a Zoe. Really liked it. That is until I got home and realized that to get in a spec that isn't disgustingly low quality, I'd have to pay the equivalent of $41.5k (I'm not renting a battery).
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Jul 28, 2018 18:07
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Elephanthead posted:It would have been amazing if Telsa just ordered a bunch of bodies in white from ford and installed their mechanicals in them and actually had $39k before tax credit 3s. Except that without designing the vehicle from the ground up to be electric, it can be kind of tricky to squeeze in 200+ miles worth of batteries (at least, without severely compromising cargo space). The most range I've ever seen out of an electric vairant of an ICE car has been 125 miles (e-Golf).
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Jul 29, 2018 01:42
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Why would Ford ever sell F150 bodies to Tesla? Because by the time Tesla ever does anything with them, they'll have had their own electric truck on the market for a year or two, and it'll be a new model.
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Jul 29, 2018 02:06
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It doesn't make sense for trucks but ford is abandoning the sedan market.
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Jul 29, 2018 03:07
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Elephanthead posted:It doesn't make sense for trucks but ford is abandoning the sedan market. I think you'd be surprised at just how little sense there is in truck purchasing decisions.
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Jul 29, 2018 03:26
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blugu64 posted:Because by the time Tesla ever does anything with them, they'll have had their own electric truck on the market for a year or two, and it'll be a new model. Not to mention Elon Musk's ego would never allow them to produce any vehicle without the high-tech aesthetic of their current products.
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Jul 29, 2018 03:27
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Cockmaster posted:Not to mention Elon Musk's ego would never allow them to produce any vehicle without the high-tech aesthetic of their current products. Panel gaps are a high tech aesthetic?
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Jul 29, 2018 04:10
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Cockmaster posted:The most range I've ever seen out of an electric vairant of an ICE car has been 125 miles (e-Golf). Kona has 300 mile range and looks identical to the ICE version. Most Konas are normal ICEs, but I would guess that electrification is accounted for in the design of the platform.
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Jul 29, 2018 04:13
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Powershift posted:Panel gaps are a high tech aesthetic? Might want to look at current production cars.
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Jul 29, 2018 04:45
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MrOnBicycle posted:Test drove a Zoe. Really liked it. That is until I got home and realized that to get in a spec that isn't disgustingly low quality, I'd have to pay the equivalent of $41.5k (I'm not renting a battery). I had to look that one up as I hadn't heard of it. I like how the Wikipedia article specified it's pronounced as "Zoe". Yes... Also there is a woman named Zoe Renault who sued Renault.
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Jul 29, 2018 05:05
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How is it pronounced? I'm not a floppy European.
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Jul 29, 2018 05:39
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LRADIKAL posted:How is it pronounced? I'm not a floppy European. That's my question. Zoe is pronounced like Zoe according to the article, which doesn't tell you anything. I'm guessing Zoh-Ee though.
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Jul 29, 2018 07:49
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DoLittle posted:Kona has 300 mile range and looks identical to the ICE version. Most Konas are normal ICEs, but I would guess that electrification is accounted for in the design of the platform. If it was released simultaneously in gas and electric, then it most likely would have been designed to hold the big battery pack from the beginning. I was previously referring to taking an established car design, swapping out the engine for an electric motor, and cramming in the batteries wherever they'll fit.
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Jul 29, 2018 13:29
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Charles posted:I had to look that one up as I hadn't heard of it. I like how the Wikipedia article specified it's pronounced as "Zoe". Yes... Pretty sure it's just an iMiev, same thing with that Citeron EV.
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Jul 29, 2018 14:49
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That Taycan line investment stuff is pretty standard German works council shenanigans.
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Jul 29, 2018 15:31
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Cockmaster posted:If it was released simultaneously in gas and electric, then it most likely would have been designed to hold the big battery pack from the beginning. I was previously referring to taking an established car design, swapping out the engine for an electric motor, and cramming in the batteries wherever they'll fit. Well the ICE Kona has been out since 2017 and the electric is just become available, but they’ve cartainly been designed simultaneously.
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Jul 29, 2018 15:35
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Cockmaster posted:Not to mention Elon Musk's ego would never allow them to produce any vehicle without the high-tech aesthetic of their current products. If you had any idea how much the big 3 spend on new truck development you’d never have written this.
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Jul 29, 2018 15:41
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blugu64 posted:Pretty sure it's just an iMiev, same thing with that Citeron EV. It's a Renault only. You may be thinking of the Peugeot version.
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Jul 29, 2018 15:43
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DoLittle posted:Kona has 300 mile range and looks identical to the ICE version. Most Konas are normal ICEs, but I would guess that electrification is accounted for in the design of the platform. I think the 300mi range was the WLTP cycle, and that the EPA numbers would be more like 250. Still pretty good though. I'm most curious about how fast it will be able to charge (e.g. can it take advantage of the 150kw CCS chargers that Electrify America is putting up, and charge at >100kw?).
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Jul 29, 2018 16:38
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Here's some Kona test vlogs. It can only charge at 70 kW. Suspected bottleneck is CCS 1.0 which is limited to 200A, even though the charger is supposed to be able to deliver 175 kW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdfXMdkUl9A&t=456s 318 mi real world range at <55 mph though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq3OoZoUZBA
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Jul 29, 2018 16:46
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I like Bjorn's enthusiasm. Kona BEV looks pretty good!
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Jul 29, 2018 17:05
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Man_of_Teflon posted:I think the 300mi range was the WLTP cycle, and that the EPA numbers would be more like 250. Yeah, that's what Hyundai is advertising on their US website. Ola posted:318 mi real world range at <55 mph though. How often is anyone going to be driving over 250 miles in one day and staying under 55 mph? At least, apart from taxis/delivery trucks/other professional stuff.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:16
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Cockmaster posted:
Every real world range test comes with some pointless goalpost moving. How often is anyone going to be driving over 250 miles in one day, over 55 mph but refusing to charge along the way?
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Jul 29, 2018 21:24
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Ola posted:Every real world range test comes with some pointless goalpost moving. How often is anyone going to be driving over 250 miles in one day, over 55 mph but refusing to charge along the way? The same way I drive from Vegas to LA and back 270 miles one way without getting gas on the trip? Or the same to and from Ely, NV at 243 miles? I do each a couple times a year, 75+ all the way.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:38
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