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No you miserable idiot! Now you're DOUBLE weak to blunt damage!
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Jul 28, 2018 20:50
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Kaysette posted:Yeah and they almost never get used in AL because that’s a poo poo use of the +1 as-is. That's a shame, more people need to learn how to use Kenku's. I mean I'd use it for my "kenku bard" concept, just go concert of lore and it'd be fine!
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Jul 28, 2018 20:51
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Novum posted:No you miserable idiot! Now you're DOUBLE weak to blunt damage!
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Jul 28, 2018 20:51
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Josef bugman posted:That's a shame, more people need to learn how to use Kenku's. I mean I'd use it for my "kenku bard" concept, just go concert of lore and it'd be fine! No, Kenku need to not suck RAW so people have a compelling reason to use them.
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Jul 28, 2018 21:01
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The pike debate is an excellent illustration of realism versus 'verisimilitude'. Most people, like 99% of people including massive nerds have no idea how medieval weapons were actually used in real combat. I don't care how much Chivalry you've played, you probably (I'm sure at least three people in this thread are exceptions) have no idea how these weapons were actually used. When you watch a movie like Fellowship of the Ring, most people don't care how accurate the use of weapons is - we just care that, in that moment of tension, you can suspend your disbelief enough to say, 'oh that kind of makes sense, I see the logic of this thing.' Likewise, a character using a polearm in a typical 2 player fighting game generally makes no sense but we accept it within the context and logic of that world. Of course there is always somebody who scoffs at the movie or the game and says, I can't enjoy this, it just doesn't make sense to me, and I have to wonder in how many cases they really just can't see what the contextual logic is versus how often they need to tell the world they have superior knowledge of history. What I'm getting at is, I can completely accept someone using a polearm in personal scale combat and still acknowledge that it's not historically accurate - it just doesn't mater because what the polearm is attempting to communicate is, 'personal scale weapon that looks like X and has a long reach' and not 'literally a pike as would have been using by anti-cavalry infantry.'
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Jul 28, 2018 21:35
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mango sentinel posted:No, Kenku need to not suck RAW so people have a compelling reason to use them. I don't think they suck! +dex and +wis is quite nice, having an adorable bird friend is nice, having a few extra abilities is nice, so is perfectly mimicing people. Plus it gives you the opportunity to break out pre-recorded songs if you are going to be playing a bard. "Urgh this fight is depressing, Kenku Bard, play despacito"
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Jul 28, 2018 21:45
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“that fighter is holding his pointy stick wrong and it is ruining my immersion” *guy next to him polymorphs into a dinosaur*
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Jul 28, 2018 21:49
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Josef bugman posted:I don't think they suck! +dex and +wis is quite nice, having an adorable bird friend is nice, having a few extra abilities is nice, so is perfectly mimicing people. The Dex/Wis is nice but being unable to speak properly and inability to synthesize new ideas is dumb.
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Jul 28, 2018 21:58
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mango sentinel posted:The Dex/Wis is nice but being unable to speak properly and inability to synthesize new ideas is dumb. I always have it that the Kenku just work off of synthesis. The idea that they "can't come up with new things" is dumb as balls and I always treated it as a human idea that they are "creatively not on our level". Kenku generally take ideas that work and synthesise them into new things, creating through combining as opposed to creating anew whilst denying the stuff from the past that led you to this point. It still, technically, fits RAW. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 22:05
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Kaysette posted:“that fighter is holding his pointy stick wrong and it is ruining my immersion” Take both a maximum murder hobo favoring GM "I will keep a spreadsheet of the bandit loot down to their individual pocket change and misc rolled table valuables". He only encourages us to take enemies alive if we can leverage it into his love of fantasy business tycoon stuff. Like forcing kobolds to make gimmicky traps for us. Then take another GM who prefers the party to be storybook heroes who try to take as many random bandits and goblins alive as possible. Nonlethal attempts are the party default for anything sentient, even if only to mock them after the fight. Both of these friends would just sort of shut down and go "...But arrows/javelins/etc are SHARP!" and nope, nope. Automatically lethal. Even in 4th edition "Literally everything is KO if you feel like it" rules. Light them on fire? Nonlethal. Damage over time ice impalement? Nonlethal. Shoot someone in the foot with a crossbow and WHOA! HOLY poo poo! You can't knock someone out with that! It's SHARP! You need to smash them in the skull with a thrown hammer or flat end of your buster sword for a knock out! (Oh you sprayed them with acid instead? Yeah that can be a knockout). Part of why over the years "But, realistically-" has become a huge irritation to me, is from how often it creeps into the minds of even the most well meaning and fun bullshit loving people. They have both gotten better, the latter more than the former. One realizing it's impractical to hinder your players from playing less than lethal if you desire them to not be murder hobos. The other offering custom ordered blunt ammo with reduced range because aerodynamics. Progress! Section Z fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 22:08
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Kenku should all talk like Bumblebee and any Kenku bards should play mashups like a walking sampler, imo
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Jul 28, 2018 22:33
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It does kind of disappoint me that there's no real thought put into matching up why a person would use X weapon with what the rules interact with. Like, any kind of fencing style sword is a weapon with a very specific niche: dueling. It's great for fighting one-on-one with another human being. It wouldn't make much sense to use it against, say, a heavily armored ogre soldier holding a shield. Or against a horde of dire bats. Or against a dragon. But as far as the rules are concerned, a rapier is just 'Pointy object + finesse trait'. This is how the spear, which is by leaps and bounds the most useful all-purpose hand weapon an adventurer could carry, gets relegated to the trash tier. It's not the MY REALISM I care about, so much as I think there's a lot of room to make interesting choices, but the rules focus on entirely the wrong junk.
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Jul 28, 2018 22:49
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Section Z posted:Something about pointy objects in particular fucks with people's heads, in my experience. Do what you want. Ive trained with spears and was just commenting. If you dont care about that part of the narrative then give your fighters lightsabers and move on. Tendales posted:It does kind of disappoint me that there's no real thought put into matching up why a person would use X weapon with what the rules interact with. Early DnD had damage-vs-armor-type charts, but they were tedious and almost no one used them.
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Jul 28, 2018 23:03
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Tendales posted:It does kind of disappoint me that there's no real thought put into matching up why a person would use X weapon with what the rules interact with. Like, any kind of fencing style sword is a weapon with a very specific niche: dueling. It's great for fighting one-on-one with another human being. It wouldn't make much sense to use it against, say, a heavily armored ogre soldier holding a shield. Or against a horde of dire bats. Or against a dragon. But as far as the rules are concerned, a rapier is just 'Pointy object + finesse trait'. This is how the spear, which is by leaps and bounds the most useful all-purpose hand weapon an adventurer could carry, gets relegated to the trash tier. That would involve spending as much time designing fighters and rogues as they do wizard and clerics.
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Jul 28, 2018 23:04
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FRINGE posted:Do what you want. Ive trained with spears and was just commenting. If you dont care about that part of the narrative then give your fighters lightsabers and move on. So "Just give your fighters lightsabers and move on" alas, doesn't deal with the underlying phenomenon of cherry picking your realism moments in gaming. You gotta face that head on, otherwise you'll be dancing around it forever. Reik posted:That would involve spending as much time designing fighters and rogues as they do wizard and clerics. Like how a lot of people claim "But wizard spells can ALSO suffer disadvantage on attack rolls!" moments before casting a save vs cantrip that ignores disadvantage on attack rolls. Section Z fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 23:20
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You can't finesse with spears is neither about MY REALISM nor about GAME BALANCE, it's because whoever originally wrote the finesse rules however many editions ago spent about 30 seconds going down the list and writing F next to anything they felt made sense and everyone since then has copied them over with the same or less amount of thinking. There aren't many D&D weapons where it's hard to imagine a dex/agility/finesse based fighting style. What breaks if you just write "Finesse" next to every single-handed slashing or piercing weapon?
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Jul 28, 2018 23:27
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I like going down the versimilitude rabbit hole as far as I can but I'll be the first to admit the concept of walking around in metal armor all day is completely ridiculous. And since I like heavy metal armor, gently caress it
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Jul 28, 2018 23:34
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Practical question: RAW, how do Kenku cast spells?
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Jul 28, 2018 23:35
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Mendrian posted:Practical question: rules as written I think they just do, I'm pretty sure the recital thing is just flavour. I'd just ignore it but my theory is that at childbirth the kenku's mum just recites every different vocal sound.
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Jul 28, 2018 23:40
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Mendrian posted:Practical question: Wrestlepig posted:rules as written I think they just do, I'm pretty sure the recital thing is just flavour. I'd just ignore it but my theory is that at childbirth the kenku's mum just recites every different vocal sound. Giving more credence to my theory that the "can't create stuff" is bunkum.
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Jul 28, 2018 23:44
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Josef bugman posted:Giving more credence to my theory that the "can't create stuff" is bunkum. It's an extremely large scale long con.
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Jul 29, 2018 00:03
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AlphaDog posted:It's an extremely large scale long con. The fact that there are a million elf deities and not even one Kenku one is a conspiracy! Kenku will work together to exalt the entire species and ascend heaven through theft!
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Jul 29, 2018 00:10
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Section Z posted:I could see the effort being made AlphaDog posted:You can't finesse with spears is neither about MY REALISM nor about GAME BALANCE, it's because whoever originally wrote the finesse rules however many editions ago spent about 30 seconds going down the list and writing F next to anything they felt made sense and everyone since then has copied them over with the same or less amount of thinking. Tendales posted:It does kind of disappoint me that there's no real thought put into matching up why a person would use X weapon with what the rules interact with. Like, any kind of fencing style sword is a weapon with a very specific niche: dueling. It's great for fighting one-on-one with another human being. It wouldn't make much sense to use it against, say, a heavily armored ogre soldier holding a shield. Or against a horde of dire bats. Or against a dragon. But as far as the rules are concerned, a rapier is just 'Pointy object + finesse trait'. This is how the spear, which is by leaps and bounds the most useful all-purpose hand weapon an adventurer could carry, gets relegated to the trash tier.
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Jul 29, 2018 00:34
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It also doesn't work with magic weapons unless you have a lot of them. If I get a cool magic sword, then go up against an iron golem, neither of my options are any good.
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Jul 29, 2018 00:52
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Wrestlepig posted:It also doesn't work with magic weapons unless you have a lot of them. If I get a cool magic sword, then go up against an iron golem, neither of my options are any good. Well then just cast some spells!
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Jul 29, 2018 01:34
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Splicer posted:You could about a decade ago yes. It was a good time. Fighters should have squires that do little but help them in and out of armor and hand them appropriate weapons. Old time DnD where fighters became kings and generals and poo poo was awesome and even a little of that flavor would be nice to have back. grah fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jul 29, 2018 |
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Jul 29, 2018 02:21
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My group fooled a group of drunk bandits by sticking a severed bugbear head on a sword and using it like a puppet. Natch 20 on the Performance roll, lead the fuckers into an ambush. I like this game.
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Jul 29, 2018 04:31
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TheHoosier posted:My group fooled a group of drunk bandits by sticking a severed bugbear head on a sword and using it like a puppet. Natch 20 on the Performance roll, lead the fuckers into an ambush. I like this game. You're doing this on purpose aren't you
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Jul 29, 2018 04:34
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mastershakeman posted:You're doing this on purpose aren't you Ya got me. Silly poo poo aside, everyone seems to be enjoying the first trip into D&D.
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Jul 29, 2018 04:39
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I don’t understand, that sounds pretty typical D&D session fare to me 
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Jul 29, 2018 05:43
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Sesh was a huge hit. Thanks for the tidbits guys. I'm becoming a serviceable dm.
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Jul 29, 2018 06:41
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I don't know if this has been posted here but this is the dumbest, smuggest poo poo I've ever seen: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/07/29/revised-ranger-there-is-one-ranger-the-one-in-the-players-handbook/ Apparently the revised ranger was a huge mistake, even though core rangers have several abilities that are practically unusable and Beast Master just flat out sucks. Jeremy Crawford's solution? Ask your DM for an animal companion that doesn't suck.
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Jul 29, 2018 16:17
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This is after they admitted the PHB ranger was the weakest and universally disappointing class. But no, "rangers aren't even in the bottom third." That's a fuckin lie. This is really turning into some missing stair bullshit.
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Jul 29, 2018 16:28
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Where do they admit it's broken?
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Jul 29, 2018 16:32
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Zarick posted:I don't know if this has been posted here but this is the dumbest, smuggest poo poo I've ever seen: What’s great about this is that everyone who wanted a revised Ranger in a book wants it to use in Adventurers League, which doesn’t allow Unearthed Arcana and absolutely totally does not allow DMs to hand out fun animal pet friends with class levels. People in home games are already playing with the revised Ranger, or have already houseruled something better for them.
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Jul 29, 2018 16:41
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I think the normal ranger is fine as it is ? Also when I looked at the math, the beast master seems fine if u go two weapon fighting.
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Jul 29, 2018 16:45
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Like compare a 9th level war cleric to a fighter if you really want to see a weak class
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Jul 29, 2018 16:47
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The beastmaster Ranger isn't so much broken as badly worded. Dan Dilion of the horseman did this amazing rant on how it works and how it's not explained well. http://www.thetomeshow.com/e/round-table-121-beast-master-and-murders-and-acquistions/
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Jul 29, 2018 16:47
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shades of eternity posted:The beastmaster Ranger isn't so much broken as badly worded. I can't listen now, can you give cliffs notes? How does it ever overcome damage resistance?
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Jul 29, 2018 16:50
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mango sentinel posted:I can't listen now, can you give cliffs notes? Lol like any other martial class is expected to: with magic items. Like mearls has come out and said this.
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Jul 29, 2018 16:51
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