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Cool, thanks. I’m at 87 agility now after putting like 3 levels in to it.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:19
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You’ll probably want a solid hundred.
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Jul 30, 2018 00:54
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Bogart posted:You’ll probably want a solid hundred. 99 is a breakpoint and 100 isn't, aim for 99 if you want 100.
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Jul 30, 2018 00:56
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Arrhythmia posted:99 is a breakpoint and 100 isn't, aim for 99 if you want 100. 100 is a breakpoint for backstep iframes.
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Jul 30, 2018 01:26
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Paracelsus posted:100 is a breakpoint for backstep iframes. I always forget that you can backstep in souls games.
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Jul 30, 2018 01:29
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Arrhythmia posted:I always forget that you can backstep in souls games. I think DS2 may be the only one that gives iframes on backsteps.
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Jul 30, 2018 03:06
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ds1 also has backstep iframes, just very few. (more usefully, backstepping in ds1 gives you infinite poise, so you can do things like backstep through the boulders in sen's)
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Jul 30, 2018 03:58
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Arrhythmia posted:I always forget that you can backstep in souls games. Wait, what the heck is a backstep?
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Jul 30, 2018 04:26
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Ratoslov posted:Wait, what the heck is a backstep? Just press circle.
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Jul 30, 2018 04:27
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Arrhythmia posted:Just press circle. How did I not know this?
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Jul 30, 2018 05:17
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Paracelsus posted:100 is a breakpoint for backstep iframes. Isn't it also a breakpoint for chugs?
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Jul 30, 2018 05:21
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dis astranagant posted:Isn't it also a breakpoint for chugs? If I'm reading this post correctly, the estus breakpoints are at 91, 95, and 100. I've never seen actual good data, though, so I don't know whether there are increases between those or not.
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Jul 30, 2018 05:39
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I started my first NG+ playthrough on the weekend and it's surprisingly hilarious. They have changed stuff juuuust enough that every time I relax and get into a rhythm I get caught out again. The additional normal enemy red phantoms are one thing, but they've changed how some encounters work that is just straight up cruel. Two that come to mind are: One of the very first chests you would normally open being a mimic really sets the tone for the playthrough and In Harvest Valley there is a side area where in NG you get trapped in with a bunch of assholes with large sickles. In NG+ they know you know about the trap and come BARGING out and all pile into the thin tunnel behind you.
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Jul 30, 2018 06:32
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Ratoslov posted:How did I not know this? You always skipped the tutorial message?
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Jul 30, 2018 08:10
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No one reads the tutorial messages, and even if they did the only time I've ever intentionally backhopped was for doing speedrun stuff. I'd imagine the way most people find out about it is by hitting the wrong button to pick up an item (possibly because they'd been playing Nintendo games) and backhopping off a ledge. The whole reason to do the Sen's boulder with it is to take more damage which, in general, is not something you're usually aiming for.
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Jul 30, 2018 08:51
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To be honest, I've never found a productive use for backstep in any of the souls games. Any time I tried to use it to avoid attacks with a backstep it has ended poorly.
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Jul 30, 2018 10:06
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double nine posted:To be honest, I've never found a productive use for backstep in any of the souls games. Any time I tried to use it to avoid attacks with a backstep it has ended poorly. Yeah, I just tested it out some and I have no idea why I would want to do it instead of rolling. It takes about the same time.
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Jul 30, 2018 10:20
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It's useful for spears or weapons with good running attacks, when you want to bait out a strike at just the very edge of an enemy's attack range. Hop back as soon as they start swinging, and time the R1 follow-up just as the attack passes to close the distance and hit safely. Basically it's good when you want to counterattack without rolling through.
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Jul 30, 2018 10:22
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Ratoslov posted:Yeah, I just tested it out some and I have no idea why I would want to do it instead of rolling. It takes about the same time.
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Jul 30, 2018 10:28
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NGDBSS posted:It's a bit quicker than rolling, so if you just need to reposition it has its advantages in high-level PvP. I've never seriously considered it myself but I've seen it in saint_riot's videos. (He calls it "ravioli steps" so it's probably a term copied from Peeve or some other PvP notable.) It's when you unlock, then you backstep, then quickly push the movement button in the opposite direction to that in which you wish to move, and that will let you backstep in any direction(aka, not just backwards). From here you can execute a running R1 in the middle of a fight or get behind people in a weird way. In other words you can be facing forwards, and then 'backstep' forwards without actually turning around to face the other direction prior to the backstep.  
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Jul 30, 2018 11:15
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Mailer posted:No one reads the tutorial messages Uh, how else are you going to find out what buttons do, in addition to any new functions in the game? Really, pressing every button when starting a new game is such standard procedure that I almost don't believe there are people who don't do that.
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Jul 30, 2018 11:42
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IronicDongz posted:Ravioli steps isn't normal backstepping. True. It was peak DS1 glitch abuse edgelord pvp technics. (okay, 80% pvp edgelords, 20% fun and helpful guys). Only pivot-bs-escape bs would people react more like a grognard about the whole meta game. (It still looked impressive.) Thankfully this the DS2 thread and DS2 pvp was pretty tame about technics. Animation speedups (through copious amount of rolling) and unlocked reactive actions. Way more approachable.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:03
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Amppelix posted:I read them in every single game, in addition to trying to press all the buttons on the controller and combinations of them before I do anything else. Or you get a skill selection menu that is labeled with L1 and that opens the four quick select button menu thing which you yourself assigned and they're color-coded to the buttons as well. Basically, through tutorials, UI choices and straight-up ability gating, a lot of games will hammer their every control option into your brain over the course of you playing them, so it's utterly pointless to try and figure things out on your own. Hell, even the Souls games have the obvious crosspad symbol on their UI to always remind you that left and right switch weapons, down switches items and up switches spells because that's what you see there. Then BB gets rid of the "up" element instead of, like, putting a "+5 Bullets But In Red" symbol there and you get tons and tons of players who simply never push that button to get blood bullets because the UI seems to indicate that Up just doesn't exist.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:14
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Or, as is the case in the Soulsborne games, the tutorial is often so minimalistic it's completely missable. Like, I was halfway through Bloodborne before I noticed the tutorial messages in the Dream. And so, being minimal, it's very forgettable.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:39
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i always went around and read the tutorial messages in all the games, even the big mess of them that are in the pit in the Nexus 
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Jul 30, 2018 13:05
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I forget, are there good backstep attacks in this one? I use them all the time in BB. I never really use backstep as a dodge, though.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:41
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I've known about backstep as a dodge since 1 but the only time I used it was after fighting the Old Dragonslayer, when the spear Knight came in from off screen and attacked while I was messing with my recording irl (it's in the last 20 seconds or so of the video) So I only used it once and it was by accident
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Jul 30, 2018 13:45
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Am I correct that the Fire Longsword is a noob trap weapon?
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Jul 30, 2018 14:42
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There’s not really trap aspect to it. It’s a longsword. If you’d rather it didn’t do fire damage you can just bring it to Macduff and do something else with it.
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Jul 30, 2018 14:51
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Eh, it can definitely feel like a trap with all the explosive barrels around...
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Jul 30, 2018 14:52
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Zack Ater posted:I forget, are there good backstep attacks in this one? I use them all the time in BB. I never really use backstep as a dodge, though. There certainly are. Backstep attacks are basically the weapon running attacks (but better control and timing over the execution). People use them all the time in pvp, but they are nice for pve, too. Thrusting sword 1h has long reaching poke. Katanas get a thrust attack with long reach. Greatswords have some 300° "catch all" swing. Halberd 2h gets glorious "spin to win" with two or three 360° spins.
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Jul 30, 2018 14:54
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Playing through the game, on the normally intended path, the fire longsword is pretty great for when you get it and how long it remains relevant.
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Jul 30, 2018 14:54
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Look Sir Droids posted:Am I correct that the Fire Longsword is a noob trap weapon? I used it right up until the DLC the last time I played. It's good.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:17
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I think the biggest problem with the Fire Longsword is that a seasoned DS1 veteran might think that it's, like, ridiculously good for when you get it because in DS1, a fire weapon of course meant a +5 weapon as baseline. Instead it's simply a pre-infused weapon which is great because Fire is great to have as an element at your disposal. You ultimately lose out on damage if you keep it around forever without upgrading your caster stats to take advantage of the scaling, but it's never bad. The other thing you lose out on is the vast variety of super fun non-straight sword weapons in DS2. I think just by virtue of having so many good and viable options, the standard sword&board combo is probably the least attractive in DS2 compared to all the games. Entire classes of weapons are terrible in the other entries but the only really bad one in DS2 is Reapers, and you can still use them just fine.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:26
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That’s why I’m putting off upgrading anything until I have more variety.
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Jul 30, 2018 16:40
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Simply Simon posted:A lot of games where this is gently caress-all useful have kind of trained me off doing this, tbh. There's a whole slew of games where initially, your Y and B buttons do nothing for example because Y will be the SONIC BLAST and B will be the BUTTSTOMP but you start the game without them and have to unlock them first. Or it's the secondary weapon button, but you get that after the (lengthy) tutorial level to "not confuse new players" I guess, and then of course they will be like HEY HIT B TO BASH ENEMIES WITH THE BEEGUN!
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Jul 30, 2018 16:49
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Amppelix posted:I guess, but it's not like I can't devote five minutes of my time whenever starting a new game to pressing buttons randomly. Souls UIs can be too subtle anyway. How many people know that the small clear/green light in Bloodborne's UI even exists, much less that it signifies if your weapon is currently transformed or not? *also, not to forget that as a kid you had such fabled things as "manuals" with one page dedicated to what button did what and often even "this button is not assigned in this game" spelled out bluntly.
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Jul 30, 2018 16:55
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Well, a lot of button combos like that are context sensitive, especially when we're talking about the game where you've got R1, R1 while holding run, and R1 while flicking left analog, so it's not like you'd be able to necessarily intuit everything that you can do with buttons in Dark Souls. e: Speaking of, is there even any hint in game about powerstancing?
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Jul 30, 2018 17:02
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Simply Simon posted:*also, not to forget that as a kid you had such fabled things as "manuals" with one page dedicated to what button did what and often even "this button is not assigned in this game" spelled out bluntly. Have you heard the good word of such a fabled like a "menu" and "control settings", brother? You can check the tab/screen/whatever there and the secrets of the universe and button mapping shall be open to YOU!
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Jul 30, 2018 17:02
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That's if your game comes with control settings, which a lot of games don't. Or they might have control settings, but only in terms of sensitivity/inversion, and not actually show you the control scheme.
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Jul 30, 2018 17:04
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