|
Endless Mike posted:I've never read The Hidden Years, but wasn't that just a bunch of stories that were intended to take place during the hiatus of the X-Men comic? This is intended to replace comics that were published. Yeah they were. I had a couple, but I don't remember anything about them. I just remember Magneto in the Savage Land with that weird outfit he had with the lasers built in.
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2018 16:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 10:06 |
|
|
Endless Mike posted:I've never read The Hidden Years, but wasn't that just a bunch of stories that were intended to take place during the hiatus of the X-Men comic? This is intended to replace comics that were published. This is it precisely. It was conceived as a way to backfill issues 67-93 which were reprints because the book wasn't selling well enough to warrant new stories. I've read the Hidden Years, and much like pubic works project, I don't recall a single thing about them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
Jedi posted:This is it precisely. It was conceived as a way to backfill issues 67-93 which were reprints because the book wasn't selling well enough to warrant new stories. I've read the Hidden Years, and much like pubic works project, I don't recall a single thing about them. Neither do the X-Men I guess because I do recall them inexplicably running around with Storm.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 01:14
|
|
|
The only notable thing about Hidden Years is that the print run on the final issue was so small that it was for a time a super valuable comic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:I liked Emperor Vulcan as a rat bastard villain who was like a character from Warhammer 40K who just stepped into the Marvel Universe. Then again I thought War of Kings was great which is a controversial opinion around these parts. This is a post from waaay back, but I remember this comic vividly from my childhood. And how if one of them was hurt, anyplace in the galaxy, the other was also hurt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 08:44
|
|
|
How well do Excalibur, Dazzler and The New Mutants read by themselves? I'm probably gonna try reading chronologically the majority of X-Men stuff from Giant-Size X-Men until the debut of Gambit and do it "properly", but I thought I'd ask anyway in case I burn out or w/e. For context, I'm knowledgeable about a lot of major Claremont-era stories, and I also split off X-Force and Cable from the other 90s titles on a 90s => mid-2000s X-Men chronological read I'm currently enjoying, so I thought I'd go back and get the full lead-in for Cable and X-Force before I read them (beyond the numerous 90s crossover issues I read, naturally).
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 16:12
|
|
|
Metalshark posted:How well do Excalibur, Dazzler and The New Mutants read by themselves? I'm probably gonna try reading chronologically the majority of X-Men stuff from Giant-Size X-Men until the debut of Gambit and do it "properly", but I thought I'd ask anyway in case I burn out or w/e. Excalibur is fairly self-contained. Early on there's an Inferno crossover, but they're kind of off doing their own thing during it, so reading the other books isn't really necessary. The Davis/Claremont era is a ton of fun. After Davis leaves, Scott Lobdell takes over, and while it's not quite as good as the Davis stuff, it still manages to maintain some of the level of levity. Lobdell leaves after 82 and Warren Ellis takes over the book completely shifts in tone. It's still mostly separate from the other X-Books. New Mutants occasionally makes references to what's going on over in Uncanny X-Men, but again, not really necessary and can be enjoyed on their own. Claremont started the book and then Louise Simonson took over. It's very solid up until Liefeld starts drawing it with the introduction of Cable. Thankfully, that happens near the end of the run - if memory serves, it's issue 86/87 and the book ends at 100. Dazzler is completely separate from everything and also pretty terrible. Even if you ignore the very dated subject matter (it's even worse than reading the 60's stuff), it's still not a very good book. Pretty sure you can pick up the entire series from any LCS's quarter/dollar bin. The graphic novel Dazzler: The Movie, which wraps up the comic is completely bizarre and borders on nonsensical. There is a callback to her series and graphic novel in Uncanny X-Men 260. Jedi fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jul 29, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 16:45
|
|
|
I read the Dazzler series when I was reading every X-book and let me tell you, don't read the Dazzler series. The most remarkable thing about it is that it's a book ostensibly about a musician and no one whoever wrote it bothered to learn anything about what being a musician is like, or the music industry, or how musical styles work, or frankly what songs are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
Metalshark posted:How well do Excalibur, Dazzler and The New Mutants read by themselves? I'm probably gonna try reading chronologically the majority of X-Men stuff from Giant-Size X-Men until the debut of Gambit and do it "properly", but I thought I'd ask anyway in case I burn out or w/e. New Mutants starts out slow, then becomes awesome around #14 or so when Seinkewitz hops on board. It stays awesome until around #80 I think, when Liefeld took over, then it degenerates into full page fight scenes and pouches. Dazzler is weird. The first few issues are okay, then it becomes extremely blah. However, the last few issues, in which Allison escapes from an ultra-creepy cult, are haunting and surreal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 17:58
|
|
|
Thanks everyone. I'll give Dazzler a go, but I guess there was a reason I've never heard much about it, beyond it being the longest female X-solo title. I think it will basically come down to whether the properly old X-stuff might be a bit much for me, due to Claremont's wordiness and/or just it being dated in which case I'll maybe hop forward to when Rogue first appears. I actually read Inferno on it's own since it came up in Secret Wars and I know I like the Outback team from that, and Rogue's a favourite. If I can make it through the 90s* and have a great time... (I'm about to hit Austen's run though... but in order with New X-Men it might not be too funky, and I do like Polaris. Feel free to tut in gentle concern now at my naivete.) *Minus X-Man, Wolverine, Cable and X-Force since that I felt that would have been too much of an undertaking in one go, hence me looping back around when I catch up to where I've read the major X-Men series from in the mid-2000s.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
Reading Austen’s run alongside Morrison’s will give you whiplash. I remember being and wanting to read everything in this new, exciting era of X-Men.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 22:48
|
|
|
Metalshark posted:Thanks everyone. I'll give Dazzler a go, but I guess there was a reason I've never heard much about it, beyond it being the longest female X-solo title. Excalibur and New Mutants are definitely worth reading. Dazzler is a bit of trip if only because it's completely transparent how badly they wanted her to become a thing but she never really took off. The art is OK, but the writing is laughable. I know Claremont is overly wordy, but I've never had a problem getting through his prose. Then again, those were some of the first comics I ever read, so I've probably got a soft spot for it. I had a much harder time reading the issues from the 60's then I ever had with Claremont's stuff. The 90's are pretty rough - Austen's run especially. In fact, it's pretty rough the whole way through for awhile.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:01
|
|
|
It's interesting with the X-Men as there's no real way to get in gently, but the big stuff just becomes known to you through osmosis so I'm not gonna be too precious when things get rough. I've read most everything since Messiah CompleX, which was my mainline entry point after New Mutants Vol. 2 and Academy X were my first toe-dip, and I love Gambit so I read from just before his first appearance through the 90s where I'm at Claremont's Revolution return, which is fine enough. I definitely intend to read X-Treme X-Men, Whedon's Astonishing Run (I've read that from Ellis) and Grant Morrison's run at minimum, then I'll loop back for New Mutants, Excalibur and Uncanny, but following a chronological order online (Crushing Krisis is my go-to) unveils some interesting minis and crossovers, and seeing things like digital colouring come in was fascinating. Claremont's issues just take so long to read, I think it depends on whether the slimmer X-Men line of the 70s and 80s balances that out enough. It's taken me about 9 months to read the 90s X-comics until 2001 (minus the extreme ones I mentioned I carved out), for reference. That said, I do respect his commitment to developing things, so I'm definitely up for trying Uncanny from Giant-Size. Maybe I'll skim the earlier stuff if need be? Finally, I know this isn't news, but Generation X is the poo poo. I was thrilled that it lived up to the hype so well (gonna suck for Skin to die so ignominiously soonish!). AoA was the big surprise to me, I really thought it would be the worst 90s excess but I enjoyed the heck out of it, especially with how it overlaps as the titles progress. I remember The Phalanx Covenant dragging outside of the Uncanny issues with Emma and the proto-Gen X kids, but otherwise I've enjoyed it all pretty, says the big Rogue & Gambit fan. Even the failures are interesting in the 90s, to me at least. I'll report back way down the line if Liefeld drives me spare on latter New Mutants and early X-Force, but I've heard good things about Nicieza's development of the characters, and Larry Hama's Wolverine always seemed to be at 1000% when I read the crossover issues, so that might be a fun read since Jean and the others pop up a bit from what I've seen. Jubes & Logan from earlier issues is something I might check out too. My to-read pile is ridiculous. It includes Darkhawk, Marvel 2099, Marvel Adventures and Spider-Girl/MC2 stuff if it isn't terrible. Go big or go home, right? (I used to read non-Marvel comics ha...haha...ha.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:30
|
|
|
The only problem I had with Generation X was seeing Chris Bachalo go from his hyper-detailed style to his more stylized version (which is probably way easier and faster to draw).
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 01:45
|
|
|
Metalshark posted:
GenX was a rollercoaster. It was awesome under Lobdell & Bachalo, putrid with Hama, very good under Faerber. Then came Warren Ellis. Normally I worship the ground Ellis walks on, but Generation X was a really bad fit for his style. He did a four-issue arc about kids held in a creepy detention facility under a creepy warden under the auspices of a huge semi-goverment conspiracy, which would have been fine in Transmet or any of a dozen other titles, but it just didn't fit in here. Steve Pugh's terrible artwork didn't help.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
Jedi posted:Excalibur is fairly self-contained. Early on there's an Inferno crossover, but they're kind of off doing their own thing during it, so reading the other books isn't really necessary. The Davis/Claremont era is a ton of fun. After Davis leaves, Scott Lobdell takes over, and while it's not quite as good as the Davis stuff, it still manages to maintain some of the level of levity. Lobdell leaves after 82 and Warren Ellis takes over the book completely shifts in tone. It's still mostly separate from the other X-Books. Dazzler was so bizarre because it had a hero based on a trend that was nearly over when she debuted, and completely over when her series launched. They did nearly 2 years in her disco outfit before realizing disco was dead and buried, and then they went with the “aspiring actress” angle and an all-new 80s aerobic inspired costume. She ended up getting involved with a bounty hunter and some mutant musicians before they finally realized they could play up the mutant angle. Her series got axed, then they did a graphic novel and a limited series with the Beast - it was like Marvel thought “if we could just get a different angle she’ll sell a ton of books!” Also she had some of the most boring creative teams... Danny Fingeroth and Frank Springer did most of it, and I can’t think of a more plain Jane boring creative team in the 80s.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 02:21
|
|
|
The worst thing about Ellis' run is that he ignored all of Emma's character growth and development up until that point, just casually reverted her to strip the warmth and humanity that the entire book up to that point had established and also had her adopt British slang because gently caress it why not? She ended up with great stories after that, so it wasn't a complete character assassination but it was so loving dismissive of the book and I'm still really angry about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 02:30
|
|
|
rantmo posted:The worst thing about Ellis' run is that he ignored all of Emma's character growth and development up until that point, just casually reverted her to strip the warmth and humanity that the entire book up to that point had established and also had her adopt British slang because gently caress it why not? She ended up with great stories after that, so it wasn't a complete character assassination but it was so loving dismissive of the book and I'm still really angry about it. Is that where 'Emma is British' comes from? I know Whedon thought that. Also I was always under the impression those Ellis b-tier X-books were mostly him just plotting the books and then handed off to other writers to script and such.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 03:02
|
|
|
I just read X-Men Annual #4 since it's part of the Days of Future Past trade and I just went "umm what?" at the reveal that Nightcrawlers' girlfriend is actually his stepsister in disguise and how happy everyone was finding out at the end of the issue.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 03:06
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Is that where 'Emma is British' comes from? I know Whedon thought that. People seem to think that upper-crust Bostonians affect a British accent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 03:58
|
|
|
OhFunny posted:I just read X-Men Annual #4 since it's part of the Days of Future Past trade and I just went "umm what?" at the reveal that Nightcrawlers' girlfriend is actually his stepsister in disguise and how happy everyone was finding out at the end of the issue. Adopted sister kinda (they were raised as siblings, which isn't actually better but for some reason I still think Kurt and Amanda are a great couple when writers remember she exists. I cannot for the life of me explain why it doesn't bother me even though it probably should, but she's the best partner for him unless Meggan finally leaves Brian Braddock. Kurt and Rachel makes no loving sense.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:07
|
|
|
e: gently caress
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
Oh poo poo, quote is not edit twice!
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
Gynovore posted:People seem to think that upper-crust Bostonians affect a British accent. It's people misunderstanding the upper crust American accent that is better known as the Mid-Atlantic Accent. Think of how the women at the Country Club talk in that Simpsons episode. I think she had that accent in the Wolverine And the X-men cartoon?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:11
|
|
|
It makes total sense for Emma to adopt an accent that makes people think "rich, aloof, and sophisticated" since that's what she wants to project herself as.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:29
|
|
|
I always thought that was the dumbest excuse to make her posh. Why not just have her mimics a rich person from a 1980s comedy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:31
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:I always thought that was the dumbest excuse to make her posh. If she talked like Thurston Howell III that would also be acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:32
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:It makes total sense for Emma to adopt an accent that makes people think "rich, aloof, and sophisticated" since that's what she wants to project herself as. That is why I always made jokes about her real voice being a Southie. Everything about her is manufactured, including the way she talks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:32
|
|
|
she's an upper-class Bostonian she should talk like JFK
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:If she talked like Thurston Howell III that would also be acceptable. New x writers please make this happen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:57
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:That is why I always made jokes about her real voice being a Southie. Everything about her is manufactured, including the way she talks. Except she was never a Southie I know this is going to be hard to believe but not everyone from Boston talks like a character from Good Will Hunting I promise you this is true
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 05:07
|
|
|
rantmo posted:Adopted sister kinda (they were raised as siblings, which isn't actually better but for some reason I still think Kurt and Amanda are a great couple when writers remember she exists. I cannot for the life of me explain why it doesn't bother me even though it probably should, but she's the best partner for him unless Meggan finally leaves Brian Braddock. Kurt and Rachel makes no loving sense. It's funny how super pro-leaving-Brian I was for Meggan for basically like all of Davis and Claremont's Excalibur run. But I don't remember if it came along in the last 1/4 of the series or stuff afterwards but they finally got to a place where Brian finally was like "oh yeah, you should have some agency and taking advantage of the fact you're basically magically programed to bend to my wishes is not something I should exploit." After that I was cool with it, Captain Britain is much less of an oaf these days. But yeah Kurt and Meggan would also be really good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 05:09
|
|
|
Alaois posted:she's an upper-class Bostonian His people are new money trash, they lack the utterly detached from all reality Brahmin accent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 07:50
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Except she was never a Southie That's why its a joke, not a serious statement. I would assume her natural voice would just be normal east coast American.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 07:53
|
|
|
So I realize I'm way behind because I'm reading on Marvel Unlimited, but I really am enjoying how they're bringing Jean back in Phoenix Resurrection. I was hesitant at first because I really like teen Jean and wasn't sure there'd would be a good way to bring original Jean back, but I'm digging it so far.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 16:39
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Except she was never a Southie https://youtu.be/rLwbzGyC6t4
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 23:18
|
|
|
After reading the trades of the Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past I got to say I’m not a fan of the writing style Chris Claremont uses. There’s way to much self-narration and repetition like the constant repeating that Storm was a street thief in Cairo and how sharp Wolverine’s claws are or how tough his adamantium skeleton is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 08:43
|
|
|
All that stuff was so that anyone could pick up a single issue and follow along. It's from a different era where writing for new readers really mattered, and "writing for the trade" wasn't a thing. That said, if you're not into it, you're not into it! But it's there for a reason rather than just being a stylistic foible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 08:58
|
|
|
Android Blues posted:All that stuff was so that anyone could pick up a single issue and follow along. It's from a different era where writing for new readers really mattered, and "writing for the trade" wasn't a thing. I believe this was also a Shooter edict - 'every issue could be somebody's first' - and he wasn't wrong.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 12:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 10:06 |
|
|
I eventually just started skipping over those bits in Claremont books, you learn to recognize the repetitive stuff. Maybe not possible just reading a couple trades, but if you're reading his whole run it just becomes second nature.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 13:35
|
|