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It’s the not the number of cuts, it’s that the cuts are badly edited and the direction is extremely poor. A quick cut highlights both of these issues, so a fight scene consisting of quick cuts is gonna be lovely because it’s just constantly hammering in how weak the editing and direction are. Continuous long form cuts would work way better in the context of the show, unless a new fight choreographer showed up and really flipped the script
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Jul 27, 2018 03:17
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Proteus Jones posted:HK Kung Fu typically have long continuous wide shot steady cam sequences, that move to quick cuts to emphasize and imply power. Hollywood quick cuts and swoopy cam are used to disguise terrible choreography and unskilled fighters that need tricky angles for every strike to make it look real. I've seen this before, but I just spent the nine minutes to watch it again, so thanks for the post! Jackie Chan is just so much fun to watch. And even a newb like me can tell the difference between the cuts in his fight scenes and the confusing ones in some of the bad Marvel fights.
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Jul 27, 2018 03:54
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Dias posted:...sooooo...counting cuts is still very dumb. Yeah, gently caress trying to understand the medium.
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Jul 27, 2018 08:47
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Number of cuts isn't the last word or a perfect metric for scene quality, but it's still a useful metric because those cuts (especially in modern action films) are often used to disguise a limp scene. It's like how a movie failing the Bechdel Test doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad or a sexist movie, but a large percentage of the time it will mean at least one of those two things.
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Jul 27, 2018 09:16
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In other words, you need to establish context, but scenes filled with quick cuts are a useful diagnostic symptom of editing propping up bad choreography, direction or cinematography.
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Jul 27, 2018 09:18
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It's okay to hire actors who aren't martial artists and use quick cutting to disguise it. I mean not so much in Iron Fist, but like Taken or something? Sure. Although doing it for climbing a fence is absurd.
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Jul 27, 2018 13:06
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, gently caress trying to understand the medium. You should direct that towards the dude purely counting cuts, yes. I think that fight scene is serviceable, especially considering budget and training constraints. It's definitely masked by editing, but sometimes that's your best option. IF is an example of how not to do it, especially because it didn't fit the TYPE of fighting IF should be going for.
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Jul 27, 2018 13:44
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Last night I watched Simon Sez, a very very poorly shot movie with numerous attempts to do Jackie Chan shenanigans and blowing it every time. It starred Dennis Rodman and Dane Cook in 1999, so you can imagine the melange of influences at work.
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Jul 27, 2018 14:55
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BiggerBoat posted:drat, man. I'd love to see a Moon Knight series. A while ago I would have said it will never happen because of the mental illness stuff but Legion changed the game so maybe there's a chance.
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Jul 27, 2018 15:18
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Halloween Jack posted:Last night I watched Simon Sez, a very very poorly shot movie with numerous attempts to do Jackie Chan shenanigans and blowing it every time. It starred Dennis Rodman and Dane Cook in 1999, so you can imagine the melange of influences at work.  holy poo poo
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Jul 27, 2018 16:41
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Field Mousepad posted:I'd love to see a Moon Knight series. Same. Always loved the character. I'd like them to play up Marc Spector's schizophrenia and film it like Showtime's "The Affair" where they split each hour up into 20 minute segments showing "what happened" from the perspective of each of Marc's separate personalities, all of which are drastically different, to where the viewer never knows what's the "real" version. Or, if needed, rotate each episode from the view of Jake Lockley, Stephen Grant and Marc Spector., so you'd have 12 episodes, for 4 each character, each a full hour and they're all the same stories just told from wildly different perspectives. Like, really play up the crazy, give Marc extreme PTSD and maybe a drug dependency or something and have him believing he really WAS bitten by a werewolf and that moon gods are real and poo poo...Which maybe they are. I dunno. Could be cool.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:57
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bring back old gbs posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mWdEwRtTok
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Jul 27, 2018 17:37
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BiggerBoat posted:Or, if needed, rotate each episode from the view of Jake Lockley, Stephen Grant and Marc Spector., You could also use varying film styles and production techniques to drive this home - Muting the colors for a Zack Snyder look for Mark Spector, then filming Steven Grant scenes with the aesthetics of an episode of Dallas or whatever.
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Jul 27, 2018 18:01
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counterfeitsaint posted:Because you have a single, tiresome gimmick. Gimmick isn't even really the right word, but it's just all you do. Remember when that guy quoted you like 20 times calling people hyperbolic in this thread a few months ago? Do you think maybe, just maybe that has something to do with why people are sick of it? I had considered it, and was doing it for a while, but then you posted about me again. Don't do this. Talk about Netflix Marvel, chum. 😉
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Jul 27, 2018 19:13
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moths posted:You could also use varying film styles and production techniques to drive this home - Muting the colors for a Zack Snyder look for Mark Spector, then filming Steven Grant scenes with the aesthetics of an episode of Dallas or whatever. That''s a really good idea. Frame, light, edit, write and pace each character completely different. I think doing it 3 x an episode each time would drive home the mental illness and split personality parts but it might be hard to script and confusing from a storytelling standpoint. Maybe give 15 minutes each to the three personalities and then 15 to the Moon Knight in costume each hour. But dividing them up individually might help with the binge watching element. Have you ever seen "The Affair"? they basically divide the episodes in half and show it from the perspective of each protagonist, resulting in two different stories. 3 personalities PLUS a guy in a white costume night be a bit much. I don't know. There's a lot of really cool ways they could approach it but I think the best way to start is establishing that Marc is crazy. I could see some crossover potential too with DD, Luke and Punisher. Hire me, Netflix. I'll write this poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2018 00:43
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I mean the dude probably got killed and raised from the dead by an Egyptian deity, that sort of thing isn't conductive to mental stability.
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Jul 28, 2018 01:16
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Dias posted:...sooooo...counting cuts is still very dumb. Especially since, in the case of that Universal Soldier scene, there would be no way for the characters slowly to accumulate the visible injuries without cuts for makeup application. Plus as anyone who has sparred for any length of time knows, it's loving tiring, a lot of what they were doing wouldn't be safe to attempt fatigued.
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Jul 28, 2018 01:20
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Don't do this. Talk about Netflix Marvel, chum. 😉
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Jul 28, 2018 07:18
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BrianWilly posted:So I hear Iron Fist is really loving bad Hyperbole!
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Jul 28, 2018 07:22
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New Iron Fist teaser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu5FAWnFRI0
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Jul 28, 2018 11:31
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1999 was truly a special time. Bust Rodd posted:Hyperbole! All of the Marvel Netflix shows suck, they're like a comedian who forgot to tell a joke. Comic book shows with boring stories that take too long to get to the point. Pathological aversion to being fun or even fantastical. Everything is "gritty" and small-time. Care is taken to make you forget you are in an alternate version of Earth with alien invasions and powered armor. The closest they get to getting it is Daredevil season 2, because the Daredevil source material simply forces them to get into genre stuff. The shows otherwise just make multiple forays into over-explaining stuff that isn't that complicated or interesting. I knew what was going to happen the third time the construction guys called Frank Castle a retard and stepped on his lunchbox. I didn't need fifty near-identical scenes of Frank dreaming about his wife. I don't care that Matt Murdock's dumb dork friends disapprove of him being Daredevil and I don't need Deborah Ann Woll written sideways into every Marvel show. Her character is boring and sucks. I don't care what happens to her and I don't care what she thinks. I have never once thought that Wilson Fisk is interesting enough to do a character study on, no matter how many episodes they waste on him or how hard D'Onofrio acts his rear end off with the lame material they give him. I care more about DC's paper-thin dimestore plotting and characters, because they didn't forget that they're in the loving entertainment business. The objective shouldn't be to convince me that Iron Fist is a real person like me. If there's a misfire episode on DC, it lasts 44 minutes and not thirteen interminable episodes because Marvel TV just doesn't get the medium. The prestige drama style has become a cancer on the balls of Marvel shows. The Marvel movies, even the ones on the low end, are a zillion times better because they deliver on the premise. So much of Marvel TV is brilliant casting utterly wasted on tripe material, five episodes of plot in a thirteen episode season. gently caress 'em all. You're on a loving streaming format, write what you've got and let's loving go. Don't try to coddle me and convince me comics are real.
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Jul 28, 2018 11:42
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I started watching Kim's Convenience on Netflix and it's so dumb but good
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Jul 28, 2018 16:42
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BrianWilly posted:So I hear Iron Fist is really loving bad It certainly seems that way!
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Jul 28, 2018 16:54
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Looke posted:I started watching Kim's Convenience on Netflix and it's so dumb but good I did not know this had found its way onto Netflix, so thanks.
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Jul 29, 2018 01:03
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BrianWilly posted:So I hear Iron Fist is really loving bad Nah it's alright for a hung over weekend. Get real hosed up Friday and you're fine.
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Jul 29, 2018 01:18
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Sodomy Hussein posted:1999 was truly a special time. are you okay
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Jul 29, 2018 20:30
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Sodomy Hussein posted:1999 was truly a special time. This is an amazingly insightful and thoughtful critique of Marvel Netflix. Now do Iron Fist and The Defenders.
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Jul 29, 2018 22:16
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Nah actually Punisher is probably one of the best seasons of TV ever imo. Please name other action-dramas that deliver as hard in Season 1.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:01
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Bust Rodd posted:Nah actually Punisher is probably one of the best seasons of TV ever imo. Please name other action-dramas that deliver as hard in Season 1. Punisher was straight up middle of the road.
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Jul 30, 2018 08:36
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Lurdiak posted:Punisher was straight up middle of the road. It was good, actually. and so it went on
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Jul 30, 2018 10:17
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Hakkesshu posted:and so it went on
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Jul 30, 2018 11:33
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Bust Rodd posted:Nah actually Punisher is probably one of the best seasons of TV ever imo. Please name other action-dramas that deliver as hard in Season 1. Like any other low budget show you’ve never heard of that somehow ran for 4 seasons on Cinemax.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:33
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Lurdiak posted:Punisher was straight up middle of the road.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:46
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I do agree what does hold down the Netflix series is that they do try act like prestige TV for some reason, I mean just act like AOS where you can have drama, but also you know fun comic book poo poo (I guess the outliers I wouldn't really change would be Punisher and Jessica Jones)
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Jul 30, 2018 12:53
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Netflix has gotta keep this poo poo toned down because as sweet as it would be to have Skrulls and Atlanteans and demons everywhere, they went hard on everything being live-action so you can't have people throwing buildings everywhere because you've gotta do CG or whatever. So we're back to X-Men 1 where no one wears their iconic uniforms instead of boring grey X suits.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:00
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I would argue the opposite, that Daredevil s1 was such a juggernaught precisely because there was so little goofy comic book influence. Every marvel property has goofy magic poo poo going on and as a result they all feel equally innaccessibly dumb to me. Grounding them and making it more about human/emotional interactions and needs (shelter, a sense of home, protecting your community, guilt) makes them seem more real, which is what generates a relationship to the viewer. So when S2 was like “now it’s all zombie ninjas” it’s like the stakes get tossed out the window because now there’s nothing relatable about the issues we’re facing anymore. Kingpin is a villain that can impact my day to day life with his policies. The Hand seem so detached from reality as to appear to be non-threatening.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:08
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Nah, ninjas are fine. The problem is they were just faceless fodder If we got like a boss ninja who was cool and didn't immediately get chumped it'd be fine
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Jul 30, 2018 13:14
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Zzulu posted:Nah, ninjas are fine. The problem is they were just faceless fodder You mean like Nobu, from S1?
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Jul 30, 2018 13:16
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Bust Rodd posted:You mean like Nobu, from S1? He means like the Shredder or the Silver Samurai.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:21
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Jessica Jones s1 was also good for that reason. The issue comes when they don't have something meaningful or interesting to say, but they maintain the prestige drama pacing and aesthetic, so it becomes a dragging sequence of scenes with two people talking to each other in meaningful tones, without actually saying anything very much or effecting any change on the plot or each others' character.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:52
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