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Son of Thunderbeast posted:more like DOOM RET5RDNAL  
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Jul 30, 2018 23:29
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 is it too late to pitch this to iD
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Jul 30, 2018 23:30
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Are the skeletons different then the ghosts with the weird ranged attack and the water? Cause that's where I got to and got stuck when I first played Souls.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:32
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Are the skeletons different then the ghosts with the weird ranged attack and the water? Cause that's where I got to and got stuck when I first played Souls. This is correct, Dark Souls 1 opens up with not just one but two go gently caress yourself paths.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:36
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Neo Rasa posted:This is correct, Dark Souls 1 opens up with not just one but two go gently caress yourself paths. Nice.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:40
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might as well ask here I guess. wtf is a beanpole? Most of the soapstone messages I've figured out one way or another. But I haven't figured out "beanpole ahead" or anything that talks about beanpoles. I thought it might have something to do with skinny characters/enemies, because fatty ahead usually pointed out big tough guys, but beanpoles could be anything or nothing edit: RET5RDNAL should have a soapstone message system actually a Souls-style multiplayer system would loving own in DOOM
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Jul 30, 2018 23:43
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DontMockMySmock posted:If I'm so loving dumb and you're such a big fan of using your goddamn brain, could you take a moment to use your superior loving intellect to explain to poor stupid me what the gently caress I was supposed to notice? How do I tell the difference between "fight you're supposed to beat but it's really hard" (e.g. Capra Demon) and "fight you're not supposed to beat because it's really hard" (e.g. those loving skeletons)? You die on Asylum Demon and learn to run away rather than fight him, through the open doorway. Then later you die on somebody, and rather than slamming your dick in the door over and over trying the same thing, you try to run away somewhere else and end up in undead burg. Its not rocket science. The problem is like I said before you're used to games railroading you into only having one thing you can do, you have to beat level A to get to level B. But dark souls really does try to show you that isn't the case in dark souls during the tutorial level. Neo Rasa posted:This is correct, Dark Souls 1 opens up with not just one but two go gently caress yourself paths. Eh, skeletons are hard if you've never played souls before but its very possible to do catacombs first if you want. And obviously the whole game can be beaten at SL1 if you really want to including the ghosts. But its like, burg is the easy path, catacombs is the medium path and new londo ruins is the hard path. The existence of harder paths doesn't mean they're 'go gently caress yourself'. It should be pretty simple to check them out, grab some sweet items, and decide to go somewhere else first. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 23:49
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Zaphod42 posted:git gud git gud git gud git gud git gud git gud git gud git gud 
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Jul 30, 2018 23:52
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I can't believe that DOOM didn't give me an optional path where I can fight the cyberdemon with a starter pistol and nothing else instead of going into the first imp room. So loving handhold-y it makes me sick.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:54
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Jack Trades posted:I can't believe that DOOM didn't give me an optional path where I can fight the cyberdemon with a starter pistol and nothing else instead of going into the imp room. Har har, that said I think Foundry and its multiple paths and backtracking was the best level and most similar to OG doom maps. The ones like the tower and the bridge where you're just doing double-jump platforming over and over in a straight line were pretty dang lame by comparison. I wanna run all over the place killing demons hunting for keys to open more paths to more demons. I also like feeling rewarded for remembering "oh hey, I just got the blue keycard, I know exactly where the blue door is, I found it earlier"
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Jul 30, 2018 23:55
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Zaphod42 posted:You die on Asylum Demon and learn to run away rather than fight him, through the open doorway. You didn't answer my loving question. How is that different from other hard fights in the game that you ARE supposed to just try again?
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Jul 31, 2018 00:12
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Pomp posted:I've been calling this game Retard5 
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Jul 31, 2018 00:16
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Zaphod42 posted:Eh, skeletons are hard if you've never played souls before but its very possible to do catacombs first if you want.  The recommended way to do that is to ignore and run from all the skeletons like a punk (far more cowardly than DOOMGUY) making a beeline for the next bonfire, so it's "very possible" if you like, ran around and died in the level a lot until you have it memorized and can do that and, wait,Wait I thought the right way was to be killed a few times while doing that and then decide to go somewhere else and that it was blindingly obvious that doing the Catacombs first was wrong because it's too hard. 
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Jul 31, 2018 00:28
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DontMockMySmock posted:You didn't answer my loving question. How is that different from other hard fights in the game that you ARE supposed to just try again? You seem mad, about videogames
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Jul 31, 2018 00:34
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Dark Souls teaches you that you can kill an enormous demon that is 10x your size with the starter gear, so it's obvious that you shouldn't attempt to kill the human sized skeletons in the next area without going through like half the game first. Duh
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Jul 31, 2018 00:35
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DontMockMySmock posted:You didn't answer my loving question. How is that different from other hard fights in the game that you ARE supposed to just try again? Yeah, I ran into Ornstein and Smough and it turns out that they were exactly who I was supposed to fight at that point and it was hard as loving poo poo, but I guess I should magically know when a game is hard because I didn't approach it correctly and when a game is hard because I just need to get better.
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Jul 31, 2018 00:37
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sebmojo posted:You seem mad, about videogames WWDGD 
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Jul 31, 2018 00:38
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Neo Rasa posted:WWDGD
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Jul 31, 2018 00:39
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DontMockMySmock posted:You didn't answer my loving question. How is that different from other hard fights in the game that you ARE supposed to just try again? Here's the thing, he's not going to be able to. I'm not kidding when I say just mentally replace his posts with someone saying "git gud," because that's what his argument is. Dark Souls can never fail the player, if the player has trouble with any aspect of the game it's because of a personal deficiency and they need to suck it up. To players like him, you're not (and never will be) a reasonable, intelligent player who went in with the endlessly-reinforced expectation of "Dark Souls is really hard" and came to the conclusion "therefore I should try harder to beat these unkillable skeletons because there's obviously something I'm missing." To players like him, you're a casul who keeps slamming his dick in the door because they want everything handed to them, and just need to git gud (in this case, read as: somehow magically ascertain that you're not actually meant to go this way yet, and try a different path).
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Jul 31, 2018 00:40
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Ravenfood posted:Yeah, I ran into Ornstein and Smough and it turns out that they were exactly who I was supposed to fight at that point and it was hard as loving poo poo, but I guess I should magically know when a game is hard because I didn't approach it correctly and when a game is hard because I just need to get better. That reminds me, because of the little differences in how you build your character and weapons and how everyone's different, everyone that plays these games has a particular "not very hard" boss or part in the game they get completely steamrolled and brick wall level destroyed by forever. And everyone has a "hardest boss in the game" reputation boss or point that they just sort of glide through. That was Ornstein and Smough for me, it was my favorite fight in the game and everything just clicked and I beat them on my first try but a lot of folks will say they're the true final boss of the game and have a lot of trouble with them. And it's one thing to share tangible information like "try doing x when the boss does y" but I'm not gonna like roll up to people all like actually that boss is quite simple you just must be bad at actual video games from playing too many new video games!" Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 31, 2018 |
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Jul 31, 2018 00:43
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Neo Rasa posted:And everyone has a "hardest boss in the game" reputation boss or point that they just sort of glide through.  First try, baby
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Jul 31, 2018 00:48
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Here's the thing, he's not going to be able to. I'm not kidding when I say just mentally replace his posts with someone saying "git gud," because that's what his argument is. Dark Souls can never fail the player, if the player has trouble with any aspect of the game it's because of a personal deficiency and they need to suck it up. It's just still hilarious to me because you see people talk like that all the time, I remember there was even a lengthy article on RPS about how sacred and untouchable Dark Souls' difficulty is and how any possible re-balancing or adjusting of it or varying difficulty levels or anything would be sacrilege to FromSoftware's holy vision and destroy art and player feedback is but useless prattle in the face of Dark Souls. Which was idiotic on a million levels because they literally include starting character classes designed to make the early game easier or harder and have problems dropping patches early on with each one that make major changes in the game. Dark Souls in specifically, they made significantly easier a couple of months after it came out intentionally based on player feedback. Like most people with that attitude literally never even played that earlier version of the game where it was pretty nuts. I've a huge nut for FromSoftware, I've been a fan of them since King's Field in 1994 and I get all their games ASAP and love them, but the difficulty's like the least important part of why the games are good to me compared to how that difficulty is paced out and how tense the games can get because of their atmosphere and because of the glass cannon kind of combat where everything can drop everything in just a couple of hits. I feel like I need to make a DOOM SOULS mod for DOOM to make up for all this Souls chat I've been doing in this thread.
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Jul 31, 2018 00:49
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:4 Kings for me I sucked so bad at that one it was the 7 kings.
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Jul 31, 2018 00:50
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Neo Rasa posted:I feel like I need to make a DOOM SOULS mod for DOOM to make up for all this Souls chat I've been doing in this thread.  yes please
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Jul 31, 2018 00:52
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Like, build Lordran in DOOM? YOU WONDER WHERE DEMONS GO WHEN THEY GIT GUD
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Jul 31, 2018 00:53
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what im seeing here is somebody complaining about slamming their dick in a window repeatedly while ignoring the door
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Jul 31, 2018 00:54
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Tollymain posted:what im seeing here is somebody complaining about slamming their dick in a window repeatedly while ignoring the door Turn on my monitor, and then get out of my room
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Jul 31, 2018 00:56
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DontMockMySmock posted:You didn't answer my loving question. How is that different from other hard fights in the game that you ARE supposed to just try again? You fight different things and if they're hard you look around for other things, and then you compare the different paths you've found and pick the easiest one to try first. Isn't that logical? If you're given options A, B and C you try each and then you do the one that you think you can accomplish. If you've only seen A, you look around to make sure there isn't a B, or a C, or maybe even a D. Maybe there's just 2 options, maybe there aren't any. But you have to look around first to see if they exist, you don't assume they don't because the game already showed you that you sometimes need to do that. You need to chill though dude. Son of Thunderbeast posted:Here's the thing, he's not going to be able to. I'm not kidding when I say just mentally replace his posts with someone saying "git gud," because that's what his argument is. Dark Souls can never fail the player, if the player has trouble with any aspect of the game it's because of a personal deficiency and they need to suck it up. Well, I just did. Its not really all that complicated. You try different things until something works, its called an exhaustive search. This is some serious strawman horseshit though, earlier in the thread I myself pointed out many things dark souls 1 does that ARE unfair. I had a whole conversation about it. You're not being remotely fair or arguing in any kind of good faith. Neo Rasa posted:It's just still hilarious to me because you see people talk like that all the time, I remember there was even a lengthy article on RPS about how sacred and untouchable Dark Souls' difficulty is and how any possible re-balancing or adjusting of it or varying difficulty levels or anything would be sacrilege to FromSoftware's holy vision and destroy art and player feedback is but useless prattle in the face of Dark Souls. Funny, I didn't say any of that. Y'all are being dumb.
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Jul 31, 2018 01:11
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Neo Rasa posted:I feel like I need to make a DOOM SOULS mod for DOOM to make up for all this Souls chat I've been doing in this thread.
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Jul 31, 2018 01:24
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Neo Rasa posted:I feel like I need to make a DOOM SOULS mod for DOOM to make up for all this Souls chat I've been doing in this thread. DemonSteele is super rad but I guess its more devil may cry than dark souls. Linguica posted:Someone in 4chan was working on a Hexen Souls and had apparently done some extensive scripting for it but they ended up disappearing. I would love to see someone else attempt a mod to make Hexen a soulslike and also fun though. You don't have experience in doom/hexen and that's really the only thing you lose in souls, so I'm not sure how you'd make it soulslike. I guess you could drop your guns but dark souls lets you keep weapons. I would prefer respawning to full on game over on death though. Bioshock did that with the vita-chambers and I thought it was a great change. Even though that's the opposite of dark souls difficulty, like, either have death mean something or don't really have death at all. I kinda want a bulletstorm style shooter where you can't actually die, but you earn more points based on how little damage you take or something like that.
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Jul 31, 2018 01:30
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It seems like a reasonable compromise to have some sort of feedback to let the player know "no, actually, you aren't damaging these guys in any remotely relevant fashion", and then expect them to put two and two together and realize they should explore elsewhere. Maybe there is, I don't know since I don't actually play Souls-likes. Basically, expecting the player to think outside the box to solve a given challenge seems fine; deliberately obfuscating what the challenge even is (deliberately in the sense that they could quite reasonably have chosen to design it otherwise) seems like bad design. imo
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Jul 31, 2018 01:44
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I think the important question that this is culminating to is: will there be (or is there, already) a souls mod for doom.
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Jul 31, 2018 01:49
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Morter posted:I think the important question that this is culminating to is: will there be (or is there, already) a souls mod for doom. There's what folks mentioned but there's also quite a bit of the opposite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xay8HWwabgw
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Jul 31, 2018 02:22
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JerryLee posted:It seems like a reasonable compromise to have some sort of feedback to let the player know "no, actually, you aren't damaging these guys in any remotely relevant fashion", and then expect them to put two and two together and realize they should explore elsewhere. Maybe there is, I don't know since I don't actually play Souls-likes. You can see their health bars, yeah. The thing they're really saying is that you actually can damage the skeletons a good bit, its not impossible to kill a couple of them before you get beaten down yourself. They're saying that's bad because it means they might keep trying and trying to do the hard thing rather than realizing there's another easier way to go, but the only solution to that then is to put a wall up and say "you must beat level 1 before you can go to level 2" which creates linear level design. Souls games are all about looking around for hidden items or treasures or traps so you just have to get into the habit of exploring and not charging ahead. Neo Rasa posted:There's what folks mentioned but there's also quite a bit of the opposite:  How is this even... how... Wow. Awesome.
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Jul 31, 2018 02:32
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Remember that the game has several points where it will kill you and you'll have to get past anyway, so the whole "you should try a different direction" isn't always relevant. Was it Anor Londo that had the archers that would one shot you off the narrow chains? So of course my first experience there was getting knocked off that chain, respawning and then having to hoof it back because i got sucker punched, so now I don't die because I know the sucker punch is coming. That's not good game design, the feedback for loving up almost anything is "go walk all the way back, remember what suckerpunched you, get past it, get suckerpunched again, walk all the way back, dodge the two you know about" ad infinitum until you get to the end of the game. The asylum demon is exactly that too, it gives you a lovely weapon, then kills you for trying to use it. Great, walk back. You wanna know why games save before difficult sections? Because they know most people don't want to go through all the tedious poo poo to advance. And I say this as someone who managed to get through the game without any guides and just exploring.
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Jul 31, 2018 10:29
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I like the part where I shoot the monsters and then they die. I struggle with pinkies and hell Knights though. There's a room early on where you get an upgrade and then have an arena with two circular platforms and I always got wrecked in it.
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Jul 31, 2018 11:33
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Good lord stop talking about Dark Souls in the DOOM thread pleaaaase It’s a shame og doom isn’t on the PS4. Is it macOS friendly on steam? I’ve been itching to revisit it.
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Jul 31, 2018 11:37
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Kilometers Davis posted:Good lord stop talking about Dark Souls in the DOOM thread pleaaaase
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Jul 31, 2018 11:39
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Kilometers Davis posted:It’s a shame og doom isn’t on the PS4. Is it macOS friendly on steam? I’ve been itching to revisit it. It's literally a crime that you can get Duke Nukem 3D on the PS4 but have to pay Gearbox to do so (something I will never do) but can't even pay Activision or Bethesda or anyone anymore to get any DOOM game on PS4. And coming from Bethesda that's surprising, like you'd think they'd have churned out a PS4 port of the DOOM 3 BFG version by now. There's been two a couple of DOOM 3 ports but they're all bizarre in some way due to previous console's limitations, but they're lame bizarre instead of awesome bizarre like DOOM 64 or the PSX/Saturn DOOMs getting a new soundtrack and stuff. Like XBOX DOOM 3 has like 1/3 of the game cut out (basically a lot of the larger rooms) and all of the lighting is baked in instead of in real time. But it does have a miraculously stable framerate for the time and It does have the (I forget if it still is) exclusive coop campaign - but even that is weird and just sort of fades out/softlocks your XBOX when you finish it  Not long after there was an XBOX port of Resurrection of Evil and that kept all the levels intact but the framerate was all over the place and the lighting still wasn't there. Then the BFG edition came out later and the levels are intact but somehow the lighting is still baked in IIRC even on the PC port you had to edit some stuff to turn the real time lighting on.But I'd want that to come out on PS4 less for DOOM 3 and more for the extra DOOM campaign it came with. IIRC it had the one that came with DOOM II on the 360 also and that one was legit great. I think BFG edition would have sold better if it was marketed as an anthology of DOOM games instead of DOOM 3 because DOOM 3 lol But it's genuinely impressive that DOOM and DOOM II can run on anything...........except PS4
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Jul 31, 2018 13:37
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Kilometers Davis posted:Good lord stop talking about Dark Souls in the DOOM thread pleaaaase ikr. Here guys, we have some BFG division right here to distract us! They are aged, plowing without mercy. But you... you will be worse. Reap and sow, until is it SPRING.
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Jul 31, 2018 13:39
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