The GM Advice thread: Killing your players quickly

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Paramemetic: Sep 29, 2003; Area 51. You heard of it, right?; Fallen Rib

Not-Caribbean not-Albatrosses just start dropping dead en masse around the ship. Like they wake up one morning and the entire not-Caribbean sea is just dead albatrosses as far as the eye can see.

Get that superstition juice flowing, go for that surreal horror and see if they are in the heads of their characters.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 13:59

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 20:27

Afriscipio: Jun 3, 2013

Lichtenstein posted:

This thread tends to have amazing out-of-the-box ideas when brainstorming, so I'd love to humbly crowdsource a curse idea from you guys.

The players, a band of pirates in the not-Caribbean have stolen a bad mojo object/entity that is about to go cause trouble during their shore leave. I'm not set on what will happen exactly, so I'd love to hear your input. The known, canon facts are:
- The mcguffin is a statue/sleeping man of pure gold, sleeping in a stone coffin locked from the inside.
- The black coffin is roughly as heavy as it should be, yet it floats on the water.
- It's been dug from some native ruins like a proper indiana jones artifact should be and was about to be used by a colonial nation to curse-bomb a rival port.
- It caused an iceberg to pop up in the middle of not-Caribbean to mess up the ship it was transported on.

I'm loosely thinking it being an arrogant attempt at immortality of some past not-Aztec gone horribly wrong, but I'm still pondering what exact plagues him waking up should cause.

Sounds like your "golden god" needs to wake up on open water and start demanding to be worshiped. The party wont say no, you know, because of the implication.

The statue is a personification of greed, avarice and envy. It infects whatever port they pass through. People start killing each other over more and more minor slights and perceived injustices, ramping up to kangaroo courts and mob justice. Pirates are pretty greedy already, so the party might not notice until its too late and blood runs through the streets.

There's nothing cursed about the statue, its the coffin that's cursed, perhaps?

# ? Jul 26, 2018 14:09

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

Keeshhound posted:

You could have it be that the Listener isn't malevolent or benevolent, it's just an ancient entity that hears and remembers everything, and is so unconcerned with the petty affairs of both mortals and the divine that it will repeat what it knows to anyone for the price of asking, with a comparatively simple ritual involving the ceremonial loss of an ear to hear it's voice. The wolf druid wanted to hear from his master, so the listener is repeating what his master's spirit has been trying to tell him from the afterlife.

The gods hated and feared the Listener not because it held any distaste for them or their creations, but because it would tell the mortals their secrets, and was too powerful even for the pantheon to destroy, so instead they did everything they could to destroy the knowledge of it's existence. Now that the wolf druid is spreading his name around, they'll start taking notice.

Oh I do love this.

buuut I'm still gonna talk to the guy and ask him to pick one gimmick and stick with it cause as cool as this is it just doesn't gel in my head. Which isn't to say that if we do the druid thing I'm gonna drop the Listener entirely. I think I'd just like it to be more low-key.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 14:11

Paramemetic: Sep 29, 2003; Area 51. You heard of it, right?; Fallen Rib

Afriscipio posted:

Sounds like your "golden god" needs to wake up on open water and start demanding to be worshiped. The party wont say no, you know, because of the implication.

lmao I'm into this.

Out on the open ocean, no laws, nowhere to run. Of course they'll join the cult.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 14:15

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

Your pirate PCs get a deadzone in the not-Caribbean where there are no winds and the water turns a glassy reflective still. When/if they look directly into the water it shows another realm/time/location on same plane/whatever but reflects light as expected otherwise. PCs must figure out a way to move their boat or try to see if that water is an active portal they can pass through. Your call.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 14:18

Polo-Rican: Jul 4, 2004; emptyquote my posts or die

Lichtenstein posted:

I'm still pondering what exact plagues him waking up should cause.

Lots of villagers get sick - coughing, sneezing, fever, red-faced, pox, sweating, vomiting - then a few sick people's heads start poppin off, with nasty tentacles and claws sprouting out of the neck hole ala resident evil 4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEFtvin877Q

... but this only happens to some people...most people who get sick recover in a few days. The fun comes in when you make some key NPCs show signs of illness, so the players are constantly on edge wondering if they'll pop or if they'll get better. it's basically the classic zombie conundrum - a main character is bitten, the other characters have to decide what to do next.

Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jul 26, 2018

# ? Jul 26, 2018 14:18

Panderfringe: Sep 12, 2011; yospos

It's definitely an OC roll back that our sorceror wants to do. Like turn back the clock just before he sits on the throne.

Whybird posted:

.

The way I would deal with it is this: talk to the player group as a whole -- have the player explain that they're having second thoughts about having their character heel-turn and talk about how they feel and why they're uncertain, explain your concerns, and make a decision as a group: not about what you should do in this case, but what you should do as a general policy going forwards when a player thinks they've made a decision that is going to result in them not having fun.

I'm leaning toward this as well. I think I'm going to suggest an IC way to accomplish this, but I want the group to be in on this kind of decision.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 14:45

Keeshhound: Jan 14, 2010; Mad Duck Swagger

Lichtenstein posted:

This thread tends to have amazing out-of-the-box ideas when brainstorming, so I'd love to humbly crowdsource a curse idea from you guys.

Start slow and ramp up. If they're still at sea, have their navigation equipment fail intermittently (compass starts spinning, mists descend to block out the stars at night, etc.) Then an ancient ghost ship in the style of whatever civilization created the golden man appears on the horizon, and all weather just stops as it slowly drifts towards them, then vanishes right before it would reach them and the weather picks up. Havit keep hounding them the rest of the way, bringing misfortune every time it appears.

Once they make landfall, hit them with the wildlife die-offs, a plague of insects that lasts one day, eclipses, storms that keep people from leaving, and then just when everything seems to be calming down, someone at the harbor announces that a really old-looking ship has appeared on the horizon and is making it's way to port...

Alternatively, if you're looking for something sillier, Skelletons. A plague of skelletons. Not malevolent, just annoying, immortal skelletons that run around town playing pranks, harrassing the populace and playing brass band music at all hours (where did they get the trombones? And how do they play without lungs!?") Until the golden man wakes up, placates them, and they all commandeer a ship and sail off in the direction of the place he was originally entombed without any further explanation.

Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jul 26, 2018

# ? Jul 26, 2018 14:51

Lichtenstein: May 31, 2012; It'll make sense, eventually.

You guys did not disappoint!

Afriscipio posted:

Sounds like your "golden god" needs to wake up on open water and start demanding to be worshiped. The party wont say no, you know, because of the implication.

The statue is a personification of greed, avarice and envy. It infects whatever port they pass through. People start killing each other over more and more minor slights and perceived injustices, ramping up to kangaroo courts and mob justice. Pirates are pretty greedy already, so the party might not notice until its too late and blood runs through the streets.

There's nothing cursed about the statue, its the coffin that's cursed, perhaps?

This is perhaps my favorite, especially since all of this could combine pretty neatly!

As I imagine the trouble starting when they look around to fence the statue (with some handwaving about it being too hot not to be first melted down into bars in some proper forge), the greed infection could really spiral this into a failed endeavor (a cool adventure nevertheless) and then when they gently caress off to calmer seas/more developed port with a proper forge, thinking they have it figured out and maybe have to safeguard against mutiny, the statue finally completes its long awakening. These both could be hilarious adventures.

The coffin twist is just a cute ace in the hole to hold if needed.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 15:14

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

The statue isn't cursed.

Whatever some lost civilization put inside a gold statue of their most legendary hero so that he might protect the world from it is cursed. And leaking through.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 15:18

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

Party doing everything in their power to stop from awakening what they think is a cursed statue, but what is actually the spirit of the hero bound to his idol in service to keeping the curse locked in: optional but highly encouraged.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 15:25

Whybird: Aug 2, 2009; Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar; Nap Ghost

The sarcophagus is basically a box to prevent physical damage to the real seal, which is the alchemically pure gold that was cast around the skeleton of an undying sorceror.

# ? Jul 26, 2018 22:15

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

I'm thinking skull, and by extension demilich.

e: although as we know, it doesn't have to be the skull. Maybe this guy is the fabled Pelvis Demilich.

Came to an agreement with my dude that for now he will collect ears for the glory of the High Druid, which may or may not be how the High Druid actually operates, but is definitely a manifestation of trauma I'm down with. And I promised him there would be cults later, possibly involving the Listener in Darkness, but I want to segue this game into Eyes of the Stone Thief so... I think he'll be very happy.

Our view of the High Druid is basically "magic ecoterrorist." This doesn't preclude "also sadistic apex predator." Goddamn it I'm accidentally running an evil campaign, aren't I.

My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jul 27, 2018

# ? Jul 27, 2018 14:10

Keeshhound: Jan 14, 2010; Mad Duck Swagger

My Lovely Horse posted:

Goddamn it I'm accidentally running an evil campaign, aren't I.

Adventurers are agents of entropy by nature anyway. Absent any external forces and left to their own devices, the vast majority of them will gravitate towards Neutral Evil, regardless of what alignment system the game purports to use.

# ? Jul 27, 2018 14:54

Bad Munki: Nov 4, 2008; We're all mad here.

Bad Munki posted:

Well I'm home and have pics now, so how about a little double-post.

My upcoming game is small, just three of us. That's okay, makes it easier to manage and put a little extra effort into things. With that in mind:

For fun, my two players rolled random trinkets they had come across in days past. One: a small ceramic tile. The other, a strange metal orb. I decided to make it real, for fun, and use it as a potential adventure hook. I intend to mention none of what follows to the players, it will be up to them to discover that anything funny is going on at all.

The tile came from Lowe's, to which I added some highlights and a few mysterious runes. Two are generally known to people of this world, perhaps by a few names. The others are effectively knowledge lost to time, and thus entirely unique within the context of the game. The sphere was kindly hand-crafted and donated by a kind stranger from these here very forums.

Flipping the tile reveals an odd shiny, metallic golden surface. The sphere, with a little muscle applied in the right direction, twists and begins to separate...

Revealing a hidden compartment inside! Quality craftsmanship on that piece: two solid aluminum hemispheres, stainless steel male threads, and brass female threads, all machined down to perfection. Prior to opening, the seam really is almost invisible in person unless you look at it JUST right, and even then, if you don't know it's there, it wouldn't draw your attention at all. With a good snug tightening shut, it's easy to be completely unaware it's not totally solid.

But wait, there's something inside. What could it be?

A small rolled up scrap of paper, and five small metal balls.

Unrolling the paper, we find that it is, of course, a map, which has perhaps seen better days. On the map: four locations marked with the same mysterious and unique runes as the tile, in the same golden color as the underside of said tile. And a little blood? WHAT COULD IT MEAN

A clever individual would soon discover that the tile itself is not actually inert: in fact, there are magnets hidden within which guide the steel balls to a few specific locations.
https://i.imgur.com/CtAMJTc.gifv

Placing the map with its four locations between the tile and the balls, the fifth ball reveals a secret, previously un-marked location. One can only imagine what wonders might be found at the four rune-marked locations and, furthermore, what might be found at the secret fifth location!

In reality, I have no idea if they'll discover this stuff the very first day, or if it'll come up a month down the road, or a year. I'm hoping for at least a little while, for the wow-factor of a well played long term secret they had in hand the entire time. Also, I have no idea what it'll actually lead to. I'm thinking first off will be the quest to find this location, and then each of the four marked locations will lead to a quest to unlock whatever's at the fifth location? Something like that. We'll see how the game goes.

e: Here's a direct link to the album if anyone wants to reference it directly or gimme an upvote or whatever: https://imgur.com/gallery/R2gcx

It's happening

# ? Jul 29, 2018 00:54

midwifecrisis: Jul 5, 2005; oh, have I got some GREAT news for you!

Bad Munki posted:

It's happening

Five months! Not bad.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 02:42

Hollismason: Jun 30, 2007; An alright dude.

Been keeping myself busy due to family stuff. Anyway here is a example of the hex crawl map I made ( I didn't draw this I took it from a previous map and heavily edited it with GIMP filters etc.. although at this point is a ship of theseus situation )

This is a link to google drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PC9Kmje3l7L1ZUal3-1hqPbb08eHWAZX/view?usp=sharing

(3mb , 3400 x 2400)

I'm still not quite done. The final map will have some classic dungeons and DCC stuff.

Dunno if people are interested with this .I've hosted this on imgur but i do have a 3600 x 2400 version of it and uh it come in at like around 6 mb. I dunno where to host that. ( yes, I have a version that doesn't include alll my changes and is a 'greyhawk" map)

I think I just need to add some ship wrecks and like maybe a few more little icons.

Hollismason fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jul 29, 2018

# ? Jul 29, 2018 05:27

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Thats neat, just put it on dropbox or gdrive.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 08:27

Hollismason: Jun 30, 2007; An alright dude.

sebmojo posted:

Thats neat, just put it on dropbox or gdrive.

That's a good idea.

Here is the link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PC9Kmje3l7L1ZUal3-1hqPbb08eHWAZX/view?usp=sharing

(Everything in Elvish is a Elven area, Dwarvish dwarven, "Hobbit" Halfing, etc..

I still need to do some touch ups so cities a bit easier to read in some parts, this is just a example)

Hollismason fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jul 29, 2018

# ? Jul 29, 2018 12:10

Ignite Memories: Feb 27, 2005

Bad Munki posted:

It's happening

gently caress yeah

# ? Jul 29, 2018 16:40

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

I'm in the middle of prepping for this afternoon's Mage: the Awakening game and realize that I'm in a bit of a bind.

Over the course of the game, the players have been very one-sidedly hostile against a particular group of rival mages. The crimes that the rival mages have committed are: cheating at a casino, building a dating app that has weird effects on the web of fate, and (I guess this one is bad) killing a street person because they needed a substitute corpse to cover for the fact that they used time travel to undo the players literally murdering one of them in front of dozens of witnesses.

See, literally every time the players meet these rival mages, the players immediately jump to deadly force. They've set ambushes, attempted an assassination in broad daylight, and so on. Whenever this happens, I make a great show of their targets only trying to defend themselves as they run away. I've had several of the players' allies warn them that they're being too violent and that these mages are not only powerful themselves, but also backed by very powerful people. I've demonstrated this on-screen too: the one time one of the rival mages fought back, she straight-up dropped two characters before escaping.

This has gone on long enough that I think the only logical course of action at this point is to have the rival mages get the players to gently caress off. My plan is that the rival mages will call a meeting to negotiate, ending in both parties swearing magical oaths to leave each other alone for one year. If the players refuse to meet, if they refuse to swear the oath, or if they immediately escalate again, the rival mages have prepared dozens of contingencies to eliminate the players. Again, these mages are powerful and, thanks to many combats, know exactly what the players are capable of, so if things escalate this far then it's likely to be very lethal or permanently scarring.

I'm planning on giving the players full warning that this is potentially extremely deadly going into it. One of the players has a mentor who has previously done a lot of time rewinding to make things play out well for the party. The mentor is going to show up, having run himself into the ground trying and failing to come up with a good solution, and tell them about a lot of the contingencies. I'm hoping this will give them a decent chance to get out of the situation if they decide not to accept the deal, though it will still be very difficult.

Is this too heavy-handed? I as a GM tend to avoid forcing the players into a scene explicitly designed to kill them, but I can't think of any other solution to the problem.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 18:05

Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

Your PCs seem like they're playing Mage as classic D&D murder-hobos, where the only way to get what they want is to kill everything.

How about instead of having this powerful rival group of mages try to call a truce, have them show up to help some time? As in, "In this, our goals are aligned." Maybe the players will see that the world is more nuanced than "Us: good. Them: bad."

Alternately, is there anything or anyone about which the players care (I'm guessing probably not). If so, work to give them someone or something that they value, then either a) have that thing be killed/destroyed as a consequence of the PCs lethal actions against said rival mages or b) have the rival mages use it as leverage to get the players to come to the table for a civil chat. "We didn't want to have to stoop to this, but your prior actions have left us little choice in the matter..."

Or, you know, just say to your players, "You guys know this isn't a murder-hobo kind of game, right?" :shrug:

# ? Jul 29, 2018 18:19

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

You're good. There are some kids that, no matter how many times you tell them to not touch the burner because it is hot, will look you directly in the eyes and open palm slam their hand down.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 18:19

Keeshhound: Jan 14, 2010; Mad Duck Swagger

Ilor posted:

Or, you know, just say to your players, "You guys know this isn't a murder-hobo kind of game, right?"

Do this first, because otherwise your players will resent you for pulling GM Fiat in what they thought was a bog standard power fantasy.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 20:03

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

Alright, sounds good. I don�t think I can get away from them having a meeting, but I�ll crank down the stakes a bunch. If they get extremely belligerent or escalate then the hammer�s going to drop, but I�ll pull the straight up ultimatums and give them more room to come up with solutions.

And yeah, I got this group together straight out of D&D Adventurers League. They actually wanted to play a political low-combat game, but it�s been a long road working them into it.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 20:36

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Mage is also a very political game, have that rival group finally call in those bigger guns who call in the groups that your PCs are aligned to and suddenly they have a lot of very powerful mages very cross with them.

# ? Jul 29, 2018 20:47

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

How about having the powerful dudes hire your players for something dangerous and thuggish? Horses for courses...

# ? Jul 29, 2018 21:27

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

Turns out that it's entirely a moot question, because the party's Time mage rewound time by two hours to redo an earlier combat and accidentally turned half the party into children for a month.

:mage:

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:45

Whybird: Aug 2, 2009; Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar; Nap Ghost

If the rival party have powerful backers, how about just having the backers get in touch? They have something that the PCs want and they're entirely willing to hand it over, but they need the fighting in their turf to end: their price is that the PCs find a way to make peace with the rival party.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 10:04

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

blastron posted:

Turns out that it's entirely a moot question, because the party's Time mage rewound time by two hours to redo an earlier combat and accidentally turned half the party into children for a month.

:mage:

Babysitting episode with the rival mages :getin:

# ? Jul 30, 2018 12:25

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Considering starting a campaign at work (dunno what system yet) and I got to thinking about the Dungeon World advice. There�s some advice that basically says to call for scroll only when �failure is interesting�. How/when do I know that failure will be interesting?

# ? Jul 31, 2018 13:49

Lotus Aura: Aug 16, 2009; KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

Is there a consequence for failure that isn't "nothing happens"? If yes, great, that's probably gonna be interesting.

It basically is just that simple.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 14:11

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

Pollyanna posted:

Considering starting a campaign at work (dunno what system yet) and I got to thinking about the Dungeon World advice. There’s some advice that basically says to call for scroll only when “failure is interesting”. How/when do I know that failure will be interesting?

It's probably more helpful to illustrate where failure isn't interesting.

Characters repeatedly trying to unlock a chest they've moved to a safe location. Or having a friendly conversation with an ally. Or sneaking past an unoccupied guard booth. Or climbing a waist high wall.

You can make those things interesting as a DM obviously but you've already met the system halfway if you're willing to do that. DW works best when you don't call for checks unless you can clearly articulate what the stakes are.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 14:38

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Cross posting this from the DnD thread

Josef bugman posted:

Okay, so I have been DM'ing Heroquest on the reg for a lot of my friends and they all really enjoy it. I usually just map out a few quick things they need to be getting on with and then spin the story from there. It is very freeform and I feel very capable of reading when things need to be added in/removed from the listing and going with player suggestion's.

I have been asked to DM a 5e game of dragonheist, and I am wondering how to set up conflicts with the PC's. I can do the voices and character backstory stuff fairly easily but I am worried about how to put things in place to have fun fighting encounters/ how to make things like the heist fit together.

From what I can see having a series of skill checks to do things like open the safe door etc. But I was thinking about giving people the ability to spend one of their spell slots to essentially try and "magic down" one of the difficulties a little bit?

Current idea (and obviously the book isn't out yet) was to have the heist look like this:

Sneak past initial guards (15 stealth) -> Disable various traps and magic counter measures -> (20 arcana/thieves tools) -> Deal with monster encounter (defender sort of monster, living statue etc) -> Get to the money -> (very VERY high difficulty alarm) -> Getting out with the loot.

Now obviously all of these COULD go wrong, but I think that if they alert the guards in the first one I can add some difficulties to the monster encounter, same with the traps etc.

Does this sound like an okay idea or am I being stupid? Thanks!

# ? Jul 31, 2018 17:09

Keeshhound: Jan 14, 2010; Mad Duck Swagger

I don't know the system that well, but my instinct is that if you're setting up a heist you shouldn't be thinking about HOW your players will perform the heist. Instead, come up with defenses for the object to be pilfered, and maybe one potential solution for each. Then have the start of the session be the party scouting the location and let them come up with their own plan for how to overcome what you've put in front of them.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 17:23

Whybird: Aug 2, 2009; Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar; Nap Ghost

YMMV but unless your players loooooooove arguing endlessly about plans, running a heist that way is boring.

The way I do it is to skip the planning stage entirely. Tell the players: IC, you are now putting your careful plan into execution -- the thing you're doing now is the thing you all agreed would be your best option. At any time, any of you can make a suitable dice roll; if you succeed, you can reveal that you've already prepared for this circumstance and retroactively declare what you did. If you fail, you still have to reveal what your plan involved, but things aren't going to go as you expected.

# ? Jul 31, 2018 17:39