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Sagebrush posted:https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nvd.131279/gov.uscourts.nvd.131279.25.0.pdf Thanks for finding the source!
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Aug 1, 2018 02:58
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The defendant also does admit to damaging bandoliers and batteries - his excuse is that he was damaging them further so they would not get used as he claimed they were used. Mmmmmkay
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Aug 1, 2018 03:07
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I was at a Chevy dealership the other day and checked out a Bolt, not bad, I think it might be my next car as long as used ones are cheap in five years or so.
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Aug 1, 2018 04:36
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The defendant also does admit to damaging bandoliers and batteries This is really important. Martin Tripp admits to sabotage. "Whistle blower" is the biggest crock of poo poo ever, this guy went to NONE of the regulatory agencies a real whistle blower would go to, he when straight to a tabloid (and maybe sold his story, this part is unclear) Martin denies it but BI journalists is very careful about the wording around if he was compensated or not. Like, he admits to criminal sabotage, in what way is his testimony credible in at all?
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Aug 1, 2018 05:28
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If it's true it's not a good thing, and I have info that makes it fairly easy to believe, but yeah his credibility is dead for going to press instead of the regulatory agencies that he'd actually be whistle blowing to. Giga goes through *tons* of scrap, and having some of it get reworked into usable parts is credible. Punctured batteries getting fixed with glue is a stretch.
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Aug 1, 2018 06:34
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He's got claims that can be verified or disproven. The court should compel Tesla to track down and inspect the bad glued cells he says ended up in cars.
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Aug 1, 2018 06:43
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The defendant also does admit to damaging bandoliers and batteries - his excuse is that he was damaging them further so they would not get used as he claimed they were used. And where does it say that? Or is this this usual Tesla cultist thing where they, following Musk’s lead, just make poo poo up to slime people?
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Aug 1, 2018 10:38
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bawfuls posted:He's got claims that can be verified or disproven. The court should compel Tesla to track down and inspect the bad glued cells he says ended up in cars. They really shouldn't need to, Tesla should already have all of that process documented with inspector stamps and engineer stamps on the repair scheme. Should.
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Aug 1, 2018 11:42
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Finger Prince posted:They really shouldn't need to, Tesla should already have all of that process documented with inspector stamps and engineer stamps on the repair scheme. Should. What would the documentation look like if they didn’t reuse them?
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Aug 1, 2018 11:49
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Subjunctive posted:What would the documentation look like if they didn’t reuse them? Probably and a bunch of invoices for a third party recycler.
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Aug 1, 2018 11:56
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Agronox posted:And where does it say that? Or is this this usual Tesla cultist thing where they, following Musk’s lead, just make poo poo up to slime people? One of the court docs which right now I cant remember where exactly I saw it - In doc 25 Pg 14-31 he claims it was someone else. There's about 50 odd different things Tesla in court are accusing him of and a few Tripp agreees he did so it's really no longer just making poo poo up for the benefit of frothers. Either Tesla or Tripp are lying but this time we get to watch a court decide whose full of it. Exciting! bawfuls posted:He's got claims that can be verified or disproven. The court should compel Tesla to track down and inspect the bad glued cells he says ended up in cars. You would think so, esp given the rather large amount of battery inventory they are talking about. 100-200 million in battery materials is uhhhhh..... considerable to say the least. CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 12:13
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And yet GF1 fails parts like it's nothing and scrapping that many parts isn't a stretch at all, especially early in the ramp. Training for the temps at the factory was...uhhh, not comprehensive. That whole "barnacles on barnacles" thing was real, and while giga still has a ton of temps they've cut down on it a lot and doing so saved them a ton of waste.
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Aug 1, 2018 12:38
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Regardless of what Tripp was doing, the bigger issue is the robot punching holes in batteries, and instead of Tesla trying to fix it, disabling the tracking system and trying to use glue to seal the cells. Don't change the subject. This is also not the first time they've done poo poo like this.
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Aug 1, 2018 13:42
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CommieGIR posted:Regardless of what Tripp was doing, the bigger issue is the robot punching holes in batteries, and instead of Tesla trying to fix it, disabling the tracking system and trying to use glue to seal the cells.
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Aug 1, 2018 14:23
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No. If you puncture Lithium batteries, you don't slap some sealant on them. And the batteries should've been torn down further to inspect the individual cells. This is not debateable.
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Aug 1, 2018 14:32
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CommieGIR posted:No. If you puncture Lithium batteries, you don't slap some sealant on them. Well yeah, but maybe they were and there should be documentation to support that. Just because the claimant didn't personally witness it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Unless the claimant is like a process auditor and his audit found that it wasn't being done, and that's why he was canned. But it sounds like he's a technician, and technicians are like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:05
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That document says that powdery stuff was able to come out, and that the punctures were fairly deep. (Read it last night so I don’t remember the exact length, inch/half an inch?)
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Aug 1, 2018 15:14
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Finger Prince posted:Well yeah, but maybe they were and there should be documentation to support that. Just because the claimant didn't personally witness it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Unless the claimant is like a process auditor and his audit found that it wasn't being done, and that's why he was canned. But it sounds like he's a technician, and technicians are like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit. Not like Elon "Don't Question Me" Musk doesn't also feed bullshit. We'll see what the court case drags out, but it's not as if Tesla already has a legacy of cutting corners.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:16
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CommieGIR posted:Not like Elon "Don't Question Me" Musk doesn't also feed bullshit. We'll see what the court case drags out, but it's not as if Tesla already has a legacy of cutting corners. I'm hoping that it uncovers illegal dumping of lithium waste into Native American aquifers and of all the past 30 years of industrial process advancement they've ignored out of hubris, the don't dump your own toxic waste in your own backyard part was the one that brings them down, and they make a movie about it, and it's called Erin Brockovich 2: Mr. Tripp, and we all go back to thinking that kind of horrible poo poo only happens in movies about the skullduggery of industries from a bygone era, or in third world countries by third party contractors.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:28
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Finger Prince posted:I'm hoping that it uncovers illegal dumping of lithium waste into Native American aquifers and of all the past 30 years of industrial process advancement they've ignored out of hubris, the don't dump your own toxic waste in your own backyard part was the one that brings them down, and they make a movie about it, and it's called Erin Brockovich 2: Mr. Tripp, and we all go back to thinking that kind of horrible poo poo only happens in movies about the skullduggery of industries from a bygone era, or in third world countries by third party contractors. Sir, the question was if you wanted paper or plastic.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:42
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Finger Prince posted:I'm hoping that it uncovers illegal dumping of lithium waste into Native American aquifers and of all the past 30 years of industrial process advancement they've ignored out of hubris, the don't dump your own toxic waste in your own backyard part was the one that brings them down, and they make a movie about it, and it's called Erin Brockovich 2: Mr. Tripp, and we all go back to thinking that kind of horrible poo poo only happens in movies about the skullduggery of industries from a bygone era, or in third world countries by third party contractors. Why would you want this to happen?
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Aug 1, 2018 15:46
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CommieGIR posted:Don't change the subject. This is also not the first time they've done poo poo like this. Yeah, Elon really hasn't earned benefit of doubt, he has largely been given a pass on shipping horribly broken stuff and business practices that are questionable at best that we know about and his back is against the wall on shipping the model 3 in volume. This totally sounds like something Elon would do.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:59
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CommieGIR posted:This is not debateable. This statement does not apply to anything on the internet, ever, even if it should.
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Aug 1, 2018 16:14
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BitBasher posted:This statement does not apply to anything on the internet, ever, even if it should. If you ignore damage being done to a Lithium Ion cell, you don't deserve to debate. Its such a high risk issue, its akin to checking your fuel level with a lighter.
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Aug 1, 2018 16:25
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Three Olives posted:Yeah, Elon really hasn't earned benefit of doubt, he has largely been given a pass on shipping horribly broken stuff and business practices that are questionable at best that we know about and his back is against the wall on shipping the model 3 in volume. Oh, sure, but Mr. Tripp could be revealed to be a Russian agent who actually was sabotaging things as part of his mission was to destabilize American industry, and it would change exactly nobody's opinion of Musk and Tesla.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:09
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Finger Prince posted:Oh, sure, but Mr. Tripp could be revealed to be a Russian agent who actually was sabotaging things as part of his mission was to destabilize American industry, and it would change exactly nobody's opinion of Musk and Tesla. Tesla is doing some good stuff, but is not an excuse for the corners they cut. And there's zero excuse for Musk attacking critics by proposing 'Media Filtering' and refusing to answer questions about his company. You can support Tesla without being a fanboy of a billionaire like Musk, and you should fully be able to question Musk's motives and practice good skepticism of his claims.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:32
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CommieGIR could be a Russian agent too! I mean just look at his name!!!
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Aug 1, 2018 17:36
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CommieGIR posted:Tesla is doing some good stuff, but is not an excuse for the corners they cut. I wish that were true but you never see it. People equate Musk and Tesla as the same entity. I wish he would quietly disappear and hand the reigns to a quiet, competent administrator. Then maybe people would finally shut up about him. People still buy Apple products long after Jobs has gone.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:46
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Finger Prince posted:Oh, sure, but Mr. Tripp could be revealed to be a Russian agent who actually was sabotaging things as part of his mission was to destabilize American industry, and it would change exactly nobody's opinion of Musk and Tesla. There was no collusion! And even if there was, that's no crime!
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Aug 1, 2018 17:48
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Finger Prince posted:I wish that were true but you never see it. People equate Musk and Tesla as the same entity. I wish he would quietly disappear and hand the reigns to a quiet, competent administrator. Then maybe people would finally shut up about him. People still buy Apple products long after Jobs has gone. Pretty much. He's got good ideas, but overstays his capabilities and generally needs to stay out of the limelight.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:48
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Finger Prince posted:I wish that were true but you never see it. People equate Musk and Tesla as the same entity. I wish he would quietly disappear and hand the reigns to a quiet, competent administrator. Then maybe people would finally shut up about him. People still buy Apple products long after Jobs has gone. I agree. Whatever set of personality traits makes a successful entrepreneur seems to also make a terrible CEO.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:10
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CommieGIR posted:If you ignore damage being done to a Lithium Ion cell, you don't deserve to debate. Its such a high risk issue, its akin to checking your fuel level with a lighter. there is still some question about whether mr tripp is telling the truth or not
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Aug 1, 2018 18:43
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:there is still some question about whether mr tripp is telling the truth or not I'm sure the CEO calling 'Fake News' has nothing to hide: quote:That, at any rate, seemed to be the contention of Tesla CEO Elon Musk in an extraordinary corporate earnings call on Wednesday. The quarterly conference call with investors—a routine affair for most public companies—took a left turn when Musk cut short the Q&A, deeming their questions about Tesla’s finances “boring” and “bonehead” and taking questions instead from a 25-year-old YouTuber who had tweeted at him on Monday. As Tesla’s stock plunged in after-hours trading, Musk detoured into a Trumpian rant—yes, another one—against the dishonest media. The problem is: Tripp has already agreed some of the things he's accused of he did, so I'm curious to see more about his claims versus the guy whose pissed that he's getting called out on corner cutting. That's before we get into their under-reporting of workers safety issues and other manufacturing issues that raise flags and already support some of what Tripp is claiming.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:49
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There's also a question as to scale and severity of damage. If I scrape a bit of the plastic skin off of a battery pack, that does nothing. Even if that skin gets punctured, it should be possible to verify the integrity of the cells in the pack. So a possible and perfectly valid response to "these battery packs all got punctured" is "okay, send them to our battery expert, they'll manually inspect each pack, remove the irreparable ones, and fix the rest" (which fix might consist of replacing cells and might just be "everything inside is fine, literally the only problem is the pack now has a hole in its outer skin".
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Aug 1, 2018 18:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:There's also a question as to scale and severity of damage. If I scrape a bit of the plastic skin off of a battery pack, that does nothing. Even if that skin gets punctured, it should be possible to verify the integrity of the cells in the pack. So a possible and perfectly valid response to "these battery packs all got punctured" is "okay, send them to our battery expert, they'll manually inspect each pack, remove the irreparable ones, and fix the rest" (which fix might consist of replacing cells and might just be "everything inside is fine, literally the only problem is the pack now has a hole in its outer skin". Yeah, this is an automotive company currently struggling to even get panel gaps correct, let alone meet production figures while building out of a tent before shipping cars to holding lots to be touched up. Forgive me if I am not shocked if they are puncturing a highly reactive rare earth metal battery pack, possibly into the skin of the battery itself. Tesla needs to be held to a higher standard than your average Automotive company, because they claim to want to be more. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 18:51
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, this is an automotive company currently struggling to even get panel gaps correct, let alone meet production figures while building out of a tent before shipping cars to holding lots to be touched up. I don't think they should be, but I think all companies should be, if that makes sense. I don't think there's a question of whether or not the batteries were damaged, just whether or not they were repaired/recycled/reused according to approved procedures. The suspicion is no. But it should be fairly easy to prove otherwise if you hold them to even Volkswagen's standards.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:01
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Finger Prince posted:But it should be fairly easy to prove otherwise if you hold them to even Volkswagen's standards. Yes, which is why there needs to be an audit by an external company of the Model 3 production processes. Musk screaming about Fake News isn't helping my skepticism.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:02
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I'm not saying they aren't shipping dangerous damaged batteries in their cars, I'm just saying there exists a possible innocuous explanation for the events seen by the "whistleblower". Holding Tesla to a higher standard is fine, but holding them to a stupid standard is not. If the damage to the batteries was repairable to like-new status then they shouldn't be discarded.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:05
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm not saying they aren't shipping dangerous damaged batteries in their cars, I'm just saying there exists a possible innocuous explanation for the events seen by the "whistleblower". Again: Given their ongoing production issues, I don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to do that. Maybe they should fix the process where the damage is far less likely to happen? Maybe not build out of a bunch of tents in a vacant lot? Tesla is making all the mistakes of most major manufacturers, but refusing to learn the lessons that most ICE manufacturers have learned decades ago.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:07
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We don't actually know what happened; it seems pointless to argue about it.
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Aug 1, 2018 20:01
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