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Semper Fudge posted:Yeah the Vikings are just boring as gently caress is the problem That and it's a pretty selfish pick in a lot of cases. You're usually leaving your team at a disadvantage in team fights and objectives all game long in the hope's that you can be ignored in side lanes long enough to take keeps. It works, especially in lower levels of play where teams just ignore the viking pushing top all game, but the rest of your team needs to hope to get picks or just stall the game long enough for the split to matter
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Aug 1, 2018 17:44
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What you said more accurately describes a murky pick tbh. Vikings can't be effectively answered by 1 player so it gives your team a 4v3 lane early game, so at the very least you're not playing at a disadvantage the ENTIRE game.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 17:54
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That and delaying objectives/getting ganks with the 4 man to gain xp advantage is the entire vikings strategy. It's a bit silly to say "if you don't do that they're not useful".
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Aug 1, 2018 18:07
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:That and delaying objectives/getting ganks with the 4 man to gain xp advantage is the entire vikings strategy. It's a bit silly to say "if you don't do that they're not useful". Right, but if you're locking it in HL then you're asking your team to change picks/strategy to suit your specific character choice. Which goes to the point of why a lot of people dislike the pick
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Aug 1, 2018 18:24
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Primetime posted:Right, but if you're locking it in HL then you're asking your team to change picks/strategy to suit your specific character choice. Which goes to the point of why a lot of people dislike the pick Yeah, this sort of thought it why I really like how tempostorm breaks down their tier list, even if I don't always agree with it. Their lower tiers are 'undertuned OR requires your team to pick and play around them to be viable'
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Aug 1, 2018 18:33
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Ritznit posted:(Still hoping for that Viking avatar, if you do have the time. My love for these bearded idiots will not stop) I haven't forgotten, I've just been really busy. I'll have it done (along with Chef Jimmy) sometime next week, probably.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:57
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No Wave posted:It is, by far, the worst heroic in the game Okay, actually why is this the case? Is it just that when you use rocket ride, you leave your team behind in a 4v5 unless if you got a kill with it? Like I've not gotten rip tire to actually do anything.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:04
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Yukari posted:Okay, actually why is this the case? Is it just that when you use rocket ride, you leave your team behind in a 4v5 unless if you got a kill with it? Like I've not gotten rip tire to actually do anything. that is precisely why, it leaves your team 4v5. rip tire does massive damage if they're near it, more than a thousand at level 10 and scaling from there. you have to be safe and smart about deploying it but it is tremendously good at securing kills against runners without exposing yourself to being turned around on. edit: also getting multikills with a tire (my record is 4) is more effective than Cialis
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Aug 1, 2018 23:09
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RIP tire does wild damage. You don't have to wipe the whole team, hitting two people is fine (more is better ofc) and should usually be doable. Rocket ride theoretically does the same damage but it's fairly uncommon to hit anyone with it, then you're gone for fifteen seconds not doing damage while your team is getting killed. Like even if you get a kill with it (which is incredibly rare) you're at no real advantage in that team fight for the next fifteen seconds - that's the optimal outcome. Oh yeah and that's your heroic gone too. I also think it makes bad players play worse - they intentionally position too far forward, get two auto attacks in, then use their heroic for zero value (and leave the map for a bit) but are satisfied because they didn't die. No Wave fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 23:13
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According to HotsLogs QM - Haunted Mines is probably ~~fine~~ for Rocket Ride, but any larger map you're just gone for way too long. Looks like most people go Cannonball anyway, and that seems ideal in most situations unless you're very good with the Tire.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:16
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Uh oh this guy is dong a rocket ride on me *moves a bit* *wipes enemy team*
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Aug 1, 2018 23:41
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Uh oh this guy is dong a rocket ride on me I've seen it used effectively exactly once, and it was after level 20 with Puckish Scamp on a stalemate of a map where he used it to just charge headlong into the enemy core, clear some waves, rocket the hell out of there the second there was any pressure, and then repeat it on another lane. It was a bizarre splitpush strat that only worked because the enemy team never bothered to effectively respond to him. It was a lot of 3 of them trying to ambush him without any stuns and getting juked for 15 seconds. It basically lets him fill the same spot as Murky, which is a weird thing to blow your ult and your level 20 talent on.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:51
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It also has pyroblast syndrome where it's really, really telegraphed if they have some way of nullifying damage. Even more so since it can be beat by just moving faster.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:51
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i liked rocket ride a lot at launch but 1) RIP tire is actually super good, it does a ton of damage and people panic when they see it and 2) the best thing junkrat can do in teamfights is just get Endless Nades and rapidly button mash Q vaguely in the direction of the enemy team, and Rocket Ride directly prevents you from doing that
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Aug 1, 2018 23:54
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:i liked rocket ride a lot at launch but 1) RIP tire is actually super good, it does a ton of damage and people panic when they see it and 2) the best thing junkrat can do in teamfights is just get Endless Nades and rapidly button mash Q vaguely in the direction of the enemy team, and Rocket Ride directly prevents you from doing that This is why I hate playing vs. junkrat. He's also a really effective lane bully early game and basically impossible to kill if he's any good with the spring mine.
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Aug 2, 2018 00:16
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He's very powerful and irritating but outside of ARAM I do genuinely feel outplayed by him when he tools on me.
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Aug 2, 2018 00:24
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I like Rocket Ride because nine times out of ten if I'm Junkrat then I'm doing solo laner/split pusher things. I use Rocket Ride as either an escape or a last hurrah of pushing a lane before I zip-zoom my way over to the Objective for whatever teamfight happens to be going on. Puckish Scamp makes this strategy about ten times as effective because I can do it constantly instead of only sometimes. Edit: Also Rocket Ride owns for ARAM because it respawns you with full health and that's important in a mode that doesn't allow you to hearth
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Aug 2, 2018 00:38
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Everytime I start wondering "Hmm, I wonder if Sonya is still good or if she finally fell out of favor" the enemy team drafts a Sonya and she just drops a loving train on us
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Aug 2, 2018 00:40
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The literal only reason she’s out of favor is Yrel is so loving good
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Aug 2, 2018 01:19
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Are we talking about in team fights? Because I feel like Sonya should gently caress up Yrel in the solo lane.
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Aug 2, 2018 01:28
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Kel'thuzad feels super fun in his kit, you get to pull all sort of shenanigans, but he really doesn't feel like you get enough for the amount of work you put in. Every time I play him I'm basically saying 'I could have achieved this damage with much less effort on some other Assassin', and his lack of escape or defensive options means Butcher etc. can often blow you up nearly unavoidably. I mean, having not-Sunstrike is nice, though.
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Aug 2, 2018 01:34
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Are we talking about in team fights? Because I feel like Sonya should gently caress up Yrel in the solo lane. this is absolutely not true. Yrel is a complete monster in the solo lane and she just gets better and better as the game goes on
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Aug 2, 2018 01:43
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Yrel is Sonya And Blaze But Better. I'm still waiting for Blizzard to nerf her 'cause I'm tired of having to ban her every game.
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Aug 2, 2018 01:45
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Are we talking about in team fights? Because I feel like Sonya should gently caress up Yrel in the solo lane. In terms of yrel v sonya specifically she can interrupt whirlwind and has better sustain so sonya's not going to do much (using spear to interrupt a yrel channel doesn't matter). No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Aug 2, 2018 |
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Aug 2, 2018 01:50
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Are we talking about in team fights? Because I feel like Sonya should gently caress up Yrel in the solo lane. I'd take Yrel in that matchup. Yrel zones instead of clearing. If Sonya spears in, start whaling using quick Qs and Es. If she starts spinning or gets close to a globe, D + W. I could be wrong, but I think Yrel wins since her AA sustain doesn't require channeling. Shockeh posted:his lack of escape or defensive options means Butcher etc. can often blow you up nearly unavoidably. Escaping Butcher when you have no "escape" but you have a root or delayed stun: right before impact, drop it at your feet. Now walk away. Works for zombie wall too, but the timing is different so you don't get trapped with them. Congrats on never fearing Butcher or Varian ever again!
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Aug 2, 2018 01:51
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No Wave posted:It's kind of the opposite. Sonya's not the late game monster she once was but imo she has a slightly better late game than Yrel. Yrel's early game is totally unfair though (which is why she does better the higher up you go in ranks where early game is more important), her best talents are 1 4 and 7 which is totally weird. i would say that holy wrath is pretty important lategame since it means you can just rip through lanes with lightning speed. It also makes you hit like a freight train in teamfights.
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Aug 2, 2018 01:52
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Oh yeah I forgot holy wrath that is a biggie. Mb. EDIT: Honestly sonya feels so much weaker than last year it's hard for me to play her. She was broken last year ofc. I'm happier with a second tank (or dehaka in a perfect world) most of the time. No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Aug 2, 2018 |
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Aug 2, 2018 01:52
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I’ve been tempted to play goomba stomp yrel with stacking spellpower at 13, one second cooldown for full-charge avenging wrath, CDR on trait, etc. because my suspicion is she would be a shitkicker beyond compare. but her infinite self sustain build is just so absurdly overpowered right now it’s hard to play her any other way
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Aug 2, 2018 02:05
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BrianBoitano posted:I'd take Yrel in that matchup. Yrel zones instead of clearing. If Sonya spears in, start whaling using quick Qs and Es. If she starts spinning or gets close to a globe, D + W. I could be wrong, but I think Yrel wins since her AA sustain doesn't require channeling. Sure, if you can slam him with Frost Nova on pre-impact each time you're golden. But fluff the timing even slightly (so they impact first) or be on cooldown because it's part of your offensive combo, and you're probably going to die anyway. I'm not saying you're hard countered or anything, just that it isn't 'Congrats on never fearing them ever again' either. He just seems too much work when I could faceroll Kael or w/e.
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Aug 2, 2018 02:33
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KT is waaay more dangerous than Kael if he's played well. His combo just completely deletes people while Kael often needs another player to help seal the deal. He's also orders of magnitude harder to play than Kael of course.
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Aug 2, 2018 14:29
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Shockeh posted:Kel'thuzad feels super fun in his kit, you get to pull all sort of shenanigans, but he really doesn't feel like you get enough for the amount of work you put in. Every time I play him I'm basically saying 'I could have achieved this damage with much less effort on some other Assassin', and his lack of escape or defensive options means Butcher etc. can often blow you up nearly unavoidably. Yeah, he's almost really fun. His kit seems really useful, especially the chain, but the fact that there's exactly one thing the game wants you to do with it (land chains on 1/2 people into shadow fissure/frost nova/death and decay), unless it's early on and you're farming quest stacks, really discourages you from using your cool chain anti-mobility skill on anything but maximum commitment combo damage.
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Aug 2, 2018 14:35
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Shockeh posted:Sure, if you can slam him with Frost Nova on pre-impact each time you're golden. But fluff the timing even slightly (so they impact first) or be on cooldown because it's part of your offensive combo, and you're probably going to die anyway. I'm not saying you're hard countered or anything, just that it isn't 'Congrats on never fearing them ever again' either. Kael can't 100-0 2-3 people like KTZ can. I totally agree it's a ton of effort and he is higher risk/reward, but it just feels soooooo good when you land his combo on a few people and just delete them by yourself. Nobody else can do that in this game as far as I know.
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Aug 2, 2018 14:36
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And then he rewards you with his smug "Plans within plans...!"
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Aug 2, 2018 14:40
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KTZ is gratuitously hard, like Samuro and Illidan. Nothing wrong with having a few heroes that are challenging for their own sake and pretty good even if they're rarely 100% optimal. (illidan is mostly bad tho)
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Aug 2, 2018 14:57
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I love Samuro so much. I recently started focusing on learning his mind-game strats more and they're a blast, especially at my level where NOBODY knows how to deal with it. I was playing last night and the other team took boss, so I sent two of my clones past them. They all peeled off expecting a free kill, and by the time they realized what was going on and made it back to push with the boss it was already half-dead.
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Aug 2, 2018 16:05
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Unfortunately, Samuro is one of those heroes who makes it easy for enemies to complete quests.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:03
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Deckit posted:And then he rewards you with his smug "Plans within plans...!" He also has that S-tier laugh.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:21
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Toady posted:Unfortunately, Samuro is one of those heroes who makes it easy for enemies to complete quests. *air drops a grenade into the melee stack*
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Aug 2, 2018 20:26
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Turns out my sister's housemate is something like top 130th player in Europe at HotS, we played some games with him on his smurf account and I don't know how he can deal with playing with us, the difference in ability is quite frankly embarrassing. My sister said he had fun though apparently, and we lost about half the games we played so he wasn't even carrying us through complete stomps.
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Aug 2, 2018 21:33
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minema posted:Turns out my sister's housemate is something like top 130th player in Europe at HotS, we played some games with him on his smurf account and I don't know how he can deal with playing with us, the difference in ability is quite frankly embarrassing. My sister said he had fun though apparently, and we lost about half the games we played so he wasn't even carrying us through complete stomps. One of them is lying, I guarantee he wanted to throw one of you out a window at least 4x a game. It's a rule. What roles did he play? Did he let you all pick what you wanted and then fill or was he sticking to support or tank or whatever? I think it's pretty uncommon to carry if you're not running burst DPS, because you can't directly impact team fights the way Like Ming or Tychus can. Obviously a GM tank is going to help a bunch of silvers by picking good engages and whatnot, but he's going to have trouble finishing or compensating for deficient play on his team.
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Aug 2, 2018 21:45
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