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Majorian posted:I get the feeling you might not have the most progressive values. Lol, oh no, please don't label me a centrist in this thread that's a death sentence!
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Aug 1, 2018 16:12
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HootTheOwl posted:Lol, oh no, please don't label me a centrist in this thread that's a death sentence! Do you honestly believe you’re a progressive? 
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Aug 1, 2018 17:08
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Condiv posted:Do you honestly believe you’re a progressive? Oh no the gatekeepers have arrived!
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Aug 1, 2018 17:11
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You know it loving owns how the go to for the "Vote Blue No Matter Who" crowd is to call anyone that doesn't agree with them an illiterate, emotional child when they themselves are either too sheltered or just too pig ignorant to understand that we are in a retrograde orbit towards fascism and got maybe enough space for one more Democratic administration before we start hitting atmosphere. If we can't get Democrats that can go in a new direction that starts dismantling the machinery these Nazis are using to turn this country into a white ethnostate instead of normalizing and expanding it, if we can't get Democrats that can fight for and present a vision that actually addresses people's real and desperate material needs, then it's just a question of weather we burn up in reentry or get smeared across the landscape. If we get more Obamas or people with worse politics we are screwed. All we will get is if centrists get back in control at the national level is expansion and normalization of ICE's concentration camps, an ever expanding security state, some more wars, and the continued deterioration of living conditions for the vast majority of the population. Meanwhile in all the parts of the country that didn't gently caress off back to brunch, Republicans will continue to purge voters off the rolls, expand stand your ground and anti-protestor laws to the point where lynching is legal again, and more and more of the Republican old guard will rotate out and get replaced with literal white nationalists. Once the Democrats get booted because once again they did nothing to help people, President Adolf Chud will just need to give a wink and a nod to his base and we'll get a purge that makes the Crystal Night look like some loving toddlers throwing a tantrum. Make RaHoWa Great Again. It loving sucks and oh my god is it terrifying, but we don't have the luxury of tolerating poo poo Democrats anymore. If the Democratic party can't do better, then the truth is is that politics is no longer a method by which positive change is possible. I realize that is a very real possibility but my mind is repulsed by it and I refuse to contemplate what that means. Anyway can I get a number three with a diet cyanide? Sure Pepsi products are fine. Yeah make it a large.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:27
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HootTheOwl posted:That is only an argument against Greens who've never opened their mouths and tragically most have. The stupidity and harm of mainstream positions/actions (or at least mainstream Democratic ones) is, for some reason, given far less focus and addressed with less of a negative tone than that of less mainstream positions, despite being both more relevant and generally of greater magnitude. This is likely because media treats harmful mainstream positions as "serious/worthwhile" even if they're disagreed with, while less mainstream ones are freely belittled and insulted. This is usually the form liberal-aligned propaganda takes; as opposed to the outright lying of Republicans/conservatives, liberal-aligned media instead just varies the tone it uses towards different topics, as well as the extent to which it covers them. I have zero doubt that people like you would be the ones insulting and belittling the activists for pretty much every historical political/civil rights movement. Your logic seems to rely entirely on "X hasn't yet happened or gained majority and/or mainstream support, therefore supporting/pushing for it makes you an irrational child." This isn't exactly the first time historically that activists have been portrayed as dumb, un-serious children who shouldn't be taken seriously. The reason people like you are harmful is that all movements need to start somewhere, and there need to be people supporting positions outside of the Democratic mainstream to ever make any progress. Of course, this is assuming you even agree with the goals of the left in the first place, which I'm not really confident about.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:42
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HootTheOwl posted:Oh no the gatekeepers have arrived! maybe be less lovely if you wanna be viewed as a progressive?
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Aug 1, 2018 17:46
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Condiv posted:maybe be less lovely if you wanna be viewed as a progressive? Talk about politics as a team sport.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:05
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HootTheOwl posted:Talk about politics as a team sport. in what sense hoot? or have you actually failed to understand what "politics as a team sport" means?
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Aug 1, 2018 18:07
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Condiv posted:in what sense hoot? or have you actually failed to understand what "politics as a team sport" means? one team seems to have way more concussions than the other
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Aug 1, 2018 18:11
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Condiv posted:in what sense hoot? or have you actually failed to understand what "politics as a team sport" means? In the sense that you think lovely and not-a-progressive are synonyms. News flash: You're both incredibly lovely and a progressive.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:11
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HootTheOwl posted:In the sense that you think lovely and not-a-progressive are synonyms. News flash: You're both incredibly lovely and a progressive. so you don't understand what "politics as a team sport" means
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Aug 1, 2018 18:13
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Condiv posted:so you don't understand what "politics as a team sport" means  Okie dokie!
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Aug 1, 2018 18:17
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HootTheOwl posted:
you should probably read up a bit more next time hoot also, try having progressive opinions if you want people to think you are a progressive
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Aug 1, 2018 18:19
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Condiv posted:you should probably read up a bit more next time hoot On the other hand you're a gate keeping sack of poo poo who doesn't think I belong in your clubhouse because...why exactly? What litmus test du jour did I fail?
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Aug 1, 2018 18:24
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HootTheOwl posted:On the other hand you're a gate keeping sack of poo poo who doesn't think I belong in your clubhouse because...why exactly? What litmus test du jour did I fail? getting mad at people criticizing ppaca
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Aug 1, 2018 18:26
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HootTheOwl posted:On the other hand you're a gate keeping sack of poo poo who doesn't think I belong in your clubhouse because...why exactly? What litmus test du jour did I fail? Sentence: Guillotine.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:26
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Condiv posted:getting mad at people criticizing ppaca This is true, I am very sensitive when people attack it on the wrong axis because under the old system I'd literally be dead right now I take offence to the flippant attitude around it's faults. One strike though. I'm out.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:29
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HootTheOwl posted:On the other hand you're a gate keeping sack of poo poo who doesn't think I belong in your clubhouse because...why exactly? What litmus test du jour did I fail?
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Aug 1, 2018 18:29
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HootTheOwl posted:On the other hand you're a gate keeping sack of poo poo who doesn't think I belong in your clubhouse because...why exactly? What litmus test du jour did I fail? Defending retaliation against whistleblowers comes to mind 
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Aug 1, 2018 18:34
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HootTheOwl posted:This is true, I am very sensitive when people attack it on the wrong axis because under the old system I'd literally be dead right now I take offence to the flippant attitude around it's faults. people weren't attacking it on the wrong axis though. they didn't say that you shouldn't have gotten coverage. they said it was a handout to insurance cos that didn't actually solve the problems that needed solving, or basically that it wasn't a strong enough reform when we needed very strong reforms. all extremely valid criticisms of ppaca. and your immediate response to that criticism was to tell people to shut the gently caress up cause it saved your life. is it any wonder you're not considered progressive when you defend the status quo by pretending people want you to die? Condiv fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 18:34
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Condiv posted:people weren't attacking it on the wrong axis though. they didn't say that you shouldn't have gotten coverage. they said it was a handout to insurance cos that didn't actually solve the problems that needed solving, or basically that it wasn't a strong enough reform when we needed very strong reforms. all extremely valid criticisms of ppaca. and your immediate response to that criticism was to tell people to shut the gently caress up cause it saved your life. I'm not getting into this again, and that's not what I attacked. But whatever.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:36
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HootTheOwl posted:I'm not getting into this again, and that's not what I attacked. But whatever. HootTheOwl posted:That handout to insurance is literally saving lives so shut the gently caress up. it's exactly what you attacked
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Aug 1, 2018 18:38
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Condiv posted:it's exactly what you attacked Beep boop hyperbole detected.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:39
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Leftists purists: People getting healthcare is bad because the perfect is the enemy of the good Normal people with progressive values: The ACA Saved my life, what is wrong with you?! Leftist purist: loving Centrists  That's what just happened. The idea that the ACA isn't perfect doesn't mean it didn't help people. Your inability to understand this really pisses people off that were helped by the ACA. Advocating for it to not have been passed, is literally saying these people should not have health coverage, and makes you a bad person. Advocating for a better system does not.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:43
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Leftists purists: People getting healthcare is bad because the perfect is the enemy of the good It's telling that you're immediately siding with the dude who consistently goes into FYGM mode because the ACA helped him while not giving a single solitary poo poo about who it left behind and hosed over. For someone who keeps talking as if they ~saw the light~ you consistently backslide into this dumb poo poo whenever you see the chance.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:46
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Oh Snapple! posted:It's telling that you're siding with the dude who consistently goes into FYGM mode because the ACA helped him while not giving a single solitary poo poo about who it left behind and hosed over. Gonna have to ask for your source on that one.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:47
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HootTheOwl posted:Beep boop hyperbole detected. uh, so you don't know what hyperbole is either? Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Leftists purists: People getting healthcare is bad because the perfect is the enemy of the good this might be shocking to you, but I do understand the ACA helped people. it helped me after all since I have a pre-existing condition that insurers loved to try to deny care for before it. and yet i'm perfectly capable of criticizing it too cause it didn't go far enough in its reforms, it is for the most part a handout to insurance cos, and it was much too little when we needed a lot more. it was especially grating when people try to pretend that it was enough and just needed a few tweaks in 2016. so no, the people getting pissed off are doing so cause they're unable to take criticism of ppaca, not for any reason that could be defended as progressive. sorry
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Aug 1, 2018 18:50
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Someone post a Hillary tweet and end this stupid slap-fight.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:50
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Oh Snapple! posted:It's telling that you're immediately siding with the dude who consistently goes into FYGM mode because the ACA helped him while not giving a single solitary poo poo about who it left behind and hosed over. Or you're just loving wrong, and are more interested in team politics than actually helping people. That's what I'm focused on. We can help more people by going to single payer, but not having passed it t all or getting rid of it would have been much worse. The ACA was good. Period.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:51
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Or you're just loving wrong, and are more interested in team politics than actually helping people. That's what I'm focused on. We can help more people by going to single payer, but not having passed it t all or getting rid of it would have been much worse. no, it wasn't. it had some good in it, and a lot of bad in it, and we needed much better.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:52
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Leftists purists: People getting healthcare is bad because the perfect is the enemy of the good The people criticizing the ACA aren’t disregarding that it helped save people. They are not saying people shouldn’t get healthcare and thinking that any criticism of it means that is stupid as gently caress
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Aug 1, 2018 18:52
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Someone post a Hillary tweet and end this stupid slap-fight. USPOL has what you're after
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Aug 1, 2018 19:00
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Condiv posted:USPOL has what you're after
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Aug 1, 2018 19:11
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Nah those are Obama tweets and I'm afraid to be as vitriolic as I really want to be about him because I might look racist. if you support medicare for all and bernie, then people already think you're racist
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Aug 1, 2018 19:12
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The ACA was good. Period. No, it was better. Better than the status quo isn’t good on its own. And before you ask, yes, I only have healthcare because of the ACA. It should not be repealed on Republican terms. But it’s also far from the best they could’ve done in 2009-10.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:13
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Lightning Knight posted:No, it was better. Better than the status quo isn’t good on its own. good thing you clarified that or hoot and heck yes loam might've thought you wanted the aca repealed and for them to die 
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Aug 1, 2018 19:15
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Lightning Knight posted:No, it was better. Better than the status quo isn’t good on its own. Better implies good. Better is a comparison between one state and another. The ACA was good because it was an improvement on the current state. What the gently caress is wrong with people where an improvement on something isn't good? You would never say something getting better is bad. The brain worms you people accuse others of having may be a self diagnosis.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:18
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I can understand being all FYGM about something that's helped you personally, but when you start to insist that said thing must be without flaw it crosses the line into some pretty cultish behaviour.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:20
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Better implies good. Better is a comparison between one state and another. The ACA was good because it was an improvement on the current state. What the gently caress is wrong with people where an improvement on something isn't good? You would never say something getting better is bad. Because ACA was such a badly designed system that not only did it not help a lot of people who do need help, it was also trivial for Republicans to dismantle it. The Lieberman defense also doesn’t really work when the only reason he won his Senate race is because the Dems betrayed their own nominee for him.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:20
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Better implies good. Better is a comparison between one state and another. The ACA was good because it was an improvement on the current state. What the gently caress is wrong with people where an improvement on something isn't good? You would never say something getting better is bad. here, have some heroin. you'll feel better. do not think about what will happen afterward. you will get better.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:20
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