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kid sinister posted:https://www.lowes.com/pd/Legrand-3-Speed-15-Amp-White-Indoor-Slide-Fan-Control/1000050157 Finally ready to install this beast. I got the other two "easy" switches installed and replaced the duplicate, non 3-way fan switch with the outlet. Problem is I don't have enough freaking wires to install the new switch. Did the PO wire this up wrong? Is this why the fan and light always go on at the same time?   
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Jul 28, 2018 23:15
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Hello yes is the box hot while you have it open there?
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Jul 29, 2018 00:15
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For a each 3 way switch you are going to need 2 wires heading out, that's why you've got 2 yellow & 2 red wires coming out of your new double switch. I'd check out how your ceiling fan is wired, you might not have the requisite 3 conductor wire going into it if it's an old dome light / chandelier that was replaced without being rewired. In that case you'd either have to run new wires or get one of those remote control retrofit switches. Also, I don't see a neutral going into your new outlet, just 2 hot wires. Did you just swap the old switch's wires into the outlet? That won't work.
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Jul 29, 2018 00:19
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Hello yes is the box hot while you have it open there? It was for a split second to test it yes. Nevets posted:For a each 3 way switch you are going to need 2 wires heading out, that's why you've got 2 yellow & 2 red wires coming out of your new double switch. I'd check out how your ceiling fan is wired, you might not have the requisite 3 conductor wire going into it if it's an old dome light / chandelier that was replaced without being rewired. In that case you'd either have to run new wires or get one of those remote control retrofit switches. Yeah I think I will just take the lightbulb out at this point and install the dimmer. There are plenty of other lights in the room. How do I fix the outlet? It worked but I guess I did it wrong.
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Jul 29, 2018 00:32
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TheManWithNoName posted:It was for a split second to test it yes. Take everything out of that box. You're going to have to basically where every hot wire in the box and figure out where each one goes in the room. Do you have a circuit tester? Refresh my memory. There's another 3 way switch in this room that controls the fan light, right? Well, there are a couple ways to mount 3 way switches, and your fan/light combo switch won't work with all of them. That that other switch out and post a picture of it too. That will let us know if that switch will work for you or not.
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Jul 29, 2018 00:44
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Qwijib0 posted:It protects the whole panel-- it's wired in parallel (like all the other circuits) and provides a low impedance path to ground to shunt the current there instead of any other circuits. I've been thinking about adding one of these to my panel after a lightning related surge fried my AC blower. Do I need to get a permit if I want to add one to a panel? I'm in New Jersey if that matters.
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Jul 29, 2018 01:05
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TheManWithNoName posted:It was for a split second to test it yes. Here's a crude mspaint of where I think you're going to want to go:  As kid sinister suggests, your best bet is to pull out all the switches, label the connectors where they used to go, disconnect everything, remove the wire nuts, untwist the conductors, and straighten out the wires to find out which conductors are together in which sheathes, that will help you understand what comes from where and what powers what.
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Jul 29, 2018 01:43
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kid sinister posted:Take everything out of that box. You're going to have to basically where every hot wire in the box and figure out where each one goes in the room. Do you have a circuit tester? Yeah I have a cheap multimeter from Harbor Freight. I had to close up the box tonight as we have guests coming over but I am determined to get this done. I'd like to avoid hiring it out but this may beyond my abilities to complete safely. In the 4-box there the far left is a 3 way and the second left is a regular switch that I would like to replace with an outlet (I wire nutted it off for now until I can get a neutral to it). There is another 3 way across the room pictured below. All three of these switches control the fan and light - there's no separating the light from the fan, they always turn off/on at the same time. Here are some crappy pictures in the meantime until I can test everything properly. If I have to return that fan dimmer and get another one I'm fine not being able to control the light, I'll just take the bulb out.   
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Jul 29, 2018 01:47
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TheManWithNoName posted:Yeah I have a cheap multimeter from Harbor Freight. I had to close up the box tonight as we have guests coming over but I am determined to get this done. I'd like to avoid hiring it out but this may beyond my abilities to complete safely. Lighting sucks on the last picture. Can you light it up and take another? What does the other switch in that box do by the way? Also, more backstabs. We can help you get it wired correctly, but that box is a mess. Unscrew every screw and remove every device from that 4 gang box. Scrape off all the paint you can. It's too hard to trace them in your pictures when they're all white. For now, leave the big neutral bundle alone, but undo the big hot bundle. Also for now, remove the extensions. Use that multimeter on AV volts and find out which hot is the source hot. Also check all the other hot wires in there for power. Hopefully this will be easy and only one will have power.
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Jul 29, 2018 03:22
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kid sinister posted:Lighting sucks on the last picture. Can you light it up and take another? What does the other switch in that box do by the way? Also, more backstabs. More backstabs meaning I am probably going to replace every drat switch in this house. I will take a better picture tomorrow when I have time to open everything back up and hopefully solve this. The boxes are arranged like this: 4 box - 3 way fan/light, fan/light, 3 way can lights, porch light 2 box - 3 way fan/light, 3 way can lights I really don't care about the light in the ceiling fan. It's high up in a vaulted ceiling and useless next to the canned lights. McGurk fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jul 29, 2018 |
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Jul 29, 2018 05:38
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I'm getting flashbacks to where I helped a buddy replace a dimmer and we found like, 3 different breakers under one neutral breaker. Hope your situation isn't like that.
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Jul 30, 2018 01:57
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Quick question! I want to replace the fugly as sin almond GFCI's in my kitchen and bathroom. This means I need 3 new ones. What do people think about Eaton vs Leviton? Specifically: Leviton SmartlockPro 20 Amp Self-Test GFCI (R92-GFTR2-0KW) vs Eaton 20-Amp 125-Volt White Indoor GFCI Decorator Wall Tamper Resistant Outlet (TRSGF20W-SPL) The Eaton's would be about 25% less (retail, less coupons) which is appealing. Same brand question applies to standard rocker switches too. My hesitation for Eaton vs Leviton is if I end up getting HomeKit Leviton switches for a few of the lamps, the paddles might not match... I've been deferring this decision for a long time because of that. E: What about 15amp vs 20amp GFCI's? The 15's are of course rated for 20amp, but they have a NEMA 5-15R vs 5-20R. Seems acceptable to me, I don't own any 5-20P kitchen or bathroom devices. SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 03:17
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SiGmA_X posted:Quick question! I want to replace the fugly as sin almond GFCI's in my kitchen and bathroom. This means I need 3 new ones. Unless you plan on plugging a microwave into it you shouldn't need 20A.
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Aug 1, 2018 13:32
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SiGmA_X posted:Quick question! I want to replace the fugly as sin almond GFCI's in my kitchen and bathroom. This means I need 3 new ones. I bought these for my new house: https://www.homedepot.com/p/LEVITON...NL1-W/206000175 About the same cost & comes with a builtin nightlight. 20A is overkill for anything smaller than a table saw or data center UPS, and if you actually needed to draw 20A you can't have anything else pulling power on the circuit or you'd trip the breaker anyway.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:33
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Blast from the past. More treasures from my parents' basement.  Vintage, ungrounded 2 & 3 way switches.
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Aug 1, 2018 16:20
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Man if those count as vintage I don't even want to post what I've been pulling out of the my walls.
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Aug 1, 2018 16:28
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Yeah, those even have plastic that isn't bakelite, and aren't ceramic.
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Aug 1, 2018 16:54
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I was more surprised that I didn't pull them out of a wall. They were 'brand new' in a random box in the corner.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:23
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Brute Squad posted:Blast from the past. More treasures from my parents' basement. I can see why they didn't become popular. Plastic isn't strong enough to support the abuse a switch will go through over its lifetime.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:35
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SiGmA_X posted:E: What about 15amp vs 20amp GFCI's? The 15's are of course rated for 20amp, but they have a NEMA 5-15R vs 5-20R. Seems acceptable to me, I don't own any 5-20P kitchen or bathroom devices. If I recall correctly your bathroom is supposed to be a bathroom-dedicated 20A breaker w/ 20A outlet. Check that your breaker is 20A and your wire is 12 awg, then install the 20A outlet. This is probably so you can run your curling iron and hair straightener simultaneously. I think the first receptacle on the chain has to match the breaker too, so for your kitchen that would make the decision for you. Leviton vs Eaton is a personal choice.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:07
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Hubis posted:Unless you plan on plugging a microwave into it you shouldn't need 20A. Do GFCI's reset at the stated amp or just it they have a ground fault? I'm not clear after reading the info put out by Leviton. H110Hawk posted:If I recall correctly your bathroom is supposed to be a bathroom-dedicated 20A breaker w/ 20A outlet. Check that your breaker is 20A and your wire is 12 awg, then install the 20A outlet. This is probably so you can run your curling iron and hair straightener simultaneously. I think the first receptacle on the chain has to match the breaker too, so for your kitchen that would make the decision for you. I might just buy 20s and not think about it. SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 18:17
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SiGmA_X posted:Do GFCI's reset at the stated amp or just it they have a ground fault? I'm not clear after reading the info put out by Leviton. No, that is the breakers job. Yes, that is the easy thing. It's what, <= $5/outlet?
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Aug 1, 2018 18:35
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GFCIs work by tripping if there is a variance in the neutral and hot wires. If the variance is 0.05 amps or more (IIRC) it will trip. This why you can use them in outlets without a ground. If the current isnt going where it's supposed to it will stop it. This does not completely protect you from being electrocuted though. If you are completing the circuit between the neutral and hot wires it'll still fry you. It only protects you from electrocuting yourself from the hot wire and some other ground.
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Aug 1, 2018 18:39
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SpartanIvy posted:GFCIs work by tripping if there is a variance in the neutral and hot wires. If the variance is 0.05 amps or more (IIRC) it will trip. This why you can use them in outlets without a ground. If the current isnt going where it's supposed to it will stop it. This does not completely protect you from being electrocuted though. If you are completing the circuit between the neutral and hot wires it'll still fry you. It only protects you from electrocuting yourself from the hot wire and some other ground. So... how dangerous is it that my pool pump is currently running to an outlet via an extension cord with no ground prong on it? I've been guessing "kind of dangerous" and turning it off before I go on.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:44
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In the event of an electrical short in a piece of equipment submerged in water, that power is going to go somewhere. A ground wire gives it a path of lesser resistance than through the water (and you). Grounded extension cords aren't that expensive compared to ambulance rides.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:57
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Slugworth posted:So... how dangerous is it that my pool pump is currently running to an outlet via an extension cord with no ground prong on it? IANAE but I would agree it's kind of dangerous. Grounds exist to give electricity an escape path that's not you when something goes wrong. So if your pool pump has a short it will best case scenario stop working. Worst case scenario is that it would transfer current through the pool (and you) and that would be bad. However, fresh water is actually a real bad conductor so I'm probably more afraid of it than is realistic. With that said I would unplug that bad boy before I jumped in the pool every time. Or put it on a switched outlet. You can never be too safe!
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Aug 1, 2018 20:03
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SpartanIvy posted:IANAE but I would agree it's kind of dangerous. Grounds exist to give electricity an escape path that's not you when something goes wrong. So if your pool pump has a short it will best case scenario stop working. Worst case scenario is that it would transfer current through the pool (and you) and that would be bad. However, fresh water is actually a real bad conductor so I'm probably more afraid of it than is realistic. With that said I would unplug that bad boy before I jumped in the pool every time. Or put it on a switched outlet. You can never be too safe! While it is true that fresh water is generally not a good conductor, the actual conductivity changes based on the total amount of dissolved solids in the water. This includes the chlorine and other chemicals used to maintain a "clean" swimming pool. IANAE either but I would not be comfortable going anywhere near that pool without unplugging or grounding the pump.
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Aug 1, 2018 20:34
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Remember, its the voltage gradient that kills you. It only takes a fraction of an amp to stop your heart. The danger with a short like that is that it might be resistive enough to not trip the main breaker (less than 15A or whatever) but still create a voltage gradient that's more than enough to zap you should you place yourself on it. There's a reason they tell you to hop away from downed power lines, for example! I read a post mortem report by an electrician working for an insurance company that determined a bunch of people died swimming near someone's boat dock because the lift moter was shorting into the water, and there was a bad ground connection on the path back to the GFCI protected outlet in the house.
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Aug 1, 2018 22:16
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H110Hawk posted:If I recall correctly your bathroom is supposed to be a bathroom-dedicated 20A breaker w/ 20A outlet. Check that your breaker is 20A and your wire is 12 awg, then install the 20A outlet. This is probably so you can run your curling iron and hair straightener simultaneously. I think the first receptacle on the chain has to match the breaker too, so for your kitchen that would make the decision for you. Your bathroom(s) may either have: 1. a single 20A circuit powering only bathroom outlets 2. one bathroom may have one 20A circuit powering the entire bathroom Another part of the code says that if a circuit has only one outlet, then its amperage must match the breaker. Regarding Leviton vs anyone else for GFCIs, Leviton does their little LED differently than other manufacturers. Theirs is always on while the GFCI is powered and not tripped.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:31
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Oh, I'm an idiot and failed to mention the pump has a built in gfci. My question was more would that gfci work plugged into an extension cord without a ground plug. Regardless, I'm definitely replacing the cord, just one of those things you keep forgetting to do when you actually have time to do it.
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Aug 2, 2018 02:50
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Slugworth posted:Oh, I'm an idiot and failed to mention the pump has a built in gfci. My question was more would that gfci work plugged into an extension cord without a ground plug. A gfi will work without a ground wire supplying it. Aside from permanently wiring the pump in, an extension cord (with a ground) plugged into a gfi is the best option as it will protect both motor and cord.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:36
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I know this thread talked about these awhile back, and I even have a bunch myself (but in white). NOTHING IS SAFE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k9nBCJs_0s
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Aug 4, 2018 05:09
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SiGmA_X posted:I could see a blow drier and a flat iron or two running at once. That will easily pull >15 but I'm not sure what the draw really is. Slugworth posted:So... how dangerous is it that my pool pump is currently running to an outlet via an extension cord with no ground prong on it? GWBBQ fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 12:07
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GWBBQ posted:Hairdryers are almost always 1875W, which will max out a 15A circuit. Checking Amazon, it seems that flat irons are around 50W, so 20A should be OK. Don't over think my bad joke about a curling and straightening iron running simultaneously.
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Aug 5, 2018 14:35
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H110Hawk posted:Don't over think my bad joke about a curling and straightening iron running simultaneously. I actually missed that it was a joke, as I've known more than a few women who do exactly that...
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Aug 6, 2018 18:22
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have a few questions about AFCI breakers. I just bought a house that was built in 2006, and two of the bedrooms share an AFCI breaker in my electrical panel. Every time I try to run a vacuum cleaner, laser printer, or even an electrical drill from outlets wired to this breaker, it trips. I know that brushed electric motors can cause conditions that look like arc faults, and I guess a laser printer corona wire could also look like one, but this drat thing is a real nuisance. I believe a 2006-era breaker would be relatively new as far as AFCI requirements in homes go; would it be possible that newer breakers have been improved to be less prone to nuisance tripping? My electrical panel is in my garage, which has been getting pretty hot this summer. I saw somewhere that some AFCIs are sensitive to high temperatures. Is this true? There only appears to be one AFCI breaker in my panel as far as I can tell. My understanding is that NEC requires all interior bedrooms, living rooms, etc. to have AFCI breakers. I assume that the house was built to code with AFCIs for all those rooms in order to pass inspection, and the previous owners got fed up and swapped in normal breakers? The inspector I hired before I bought the house didn't mention anything about that, bastard. I know that a licensed electrician can not legally swap in a normal breaker for an AFCI, but I can easily do this myself. That said, if my house burns down for an unrelated reason, I'm pretty sure insurance wouldn't pay out if they somehow found out, right?
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Aug 9, 2018 19:36
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nobody- posted:I believe a 2006-era breaker would be relatively new as far as AFCI requirements in homes go; would it be possible that newer breakers have been improved to be less prone to nuisance tripping? 2006 is ANCIENT as far as electronics goes. Get new AFCI breakers. No really, get a six-pack of them and put them in for all your places that require them. The new ones are actually OK.
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Aug 9, 2018 19:49
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nobody- posted:Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have a few questions about AFCI breakers. That AFCI might be doing its job. They can turn on and stay on, yet trip when a device is used. You'd better check if you have a neutral short to ground somewhere. Do you have a multimeter? Turn off that breaker, open up your panel, unhook that circuit's neutral wire from the breaker, then use the multimeter to test for continuity between that neutral wire and ground. If that's a circuit, then you have a neutral-ground short somewhere. Hopefully, it will be in a box and not in a cable inside the walls. To find it, you'll need to keep splitting that circuit in half. Pick a box about halfway down the circuit branch (just guess if you don't know), separate its neutral wires and do the continuity test again. Keep dividing the circuit like that until you find where the short is. Also, AFCIs originally were for bedrooms, then the code was amended later to include other rooms of the house. The book is updated every 3 years. If your home was built in 2006, then it predates the requirement for combination AFCIs that started in 2008, so updating that breaker would actually give you more protection. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Aug 9, 2018 |
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Aug 9, 2018 21:39
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I'm building a top for my standing desk. Most stuff will be there permanently and powered by a power strip concealed underneath/behind, but I'd like a few outlets up top that I can plug stuff into temporarily like a soldering iron, heat gun, etc into as needed, without having an unsightly power strip sitting on the desk. There'll be a 10cm or so ledge on the back, so I thought having real outlets on it would be ideal. Is something like this safe? I was going to use a standard  faceplate and metal box behind it.
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Aug 9, 2018 22:35
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Ethics_Gradient posted:I'm building a top for my standing desk. Most stuff will be there permanently and powered by a power strip concealed underneath/behind, but I'd like a few outlets up top that I can plug stuff into temporarily like a soldering iron, heat gun, etc into as needed, without having an unsightly power strip sitting on the desk. There'll be a 10cm or so ledge on the back, so I thought having real outlets on it would be ideal. If it's not permanently wired into your house you can pretty much do whatever you want, I would just buy a power strip and mount it under the desk though. How often are you actually unplugging stuff at your desk other than maybe a phone that uses a USB cable?
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Aug 9, 2018 22:48
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