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fishmech posted:Because banks tried to introduce that back about ~5 years ago and it didn't catch on. My banks for instance issued me new cards with the tap stuff added in that time frame and then both sent me replacements without it a few years later without explanation. I had an NFC card back in like 2008 or something Only the CVS in the mall could take it
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Aug 1, 2018 21:03
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fishmech posted:Because banks tried to introduce that back about ~5 years ago and it didn't catch on. My banks for instance issued me new cards with the tap stuff added in that time frame and then both sent me replacements without it a few years later without explanation. Thanks to Apple Pay and Google Pay (which use the same technology as NFC cards, you can use your NFC cards wherever either are accepted as well as the other way around), soon it's going to be everywhere even in technologically impaired nations like the US.
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Aug 1, 2018 21:12
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U.K. has been contactless for years and I hope for the day you all also get to comment to shop assistants that “it’s just like being in Star Trek”
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Aug 1, 2018 22:46
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learnincurve posted:U.K. has been contactless for years and I hope for the day you all also get to comment to shop assistants that “it’s just like being in Star Trek” Just why is the US so far behind in card technology? They didn't even have chip and pin in a lot of stores when I went there a few years ago.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:07
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The Target POS hack definitely kickstarted that effort though. Now it’s chip and pin everywhere.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:14
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Lambert posted:Thanks to Apple Pay and Google Pay (which use the same technology as NFC cards, you can use your NFC cards wherever either are accepted as well as the other way around), soon it's going to be everywhere even in technologically impaired nations like the US. You say that, but whenever I've tried using Google pay at places that say they accept it but don't have the proper symbol displayed, it doesn't work.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:14
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baquerd posted:You say that, but whenever I've tried using Google pay at places that say they accept it but don't have the proper symbol displayed, it doesn't work. Their NFC is probably disabled, which seems to be pretty common in the US. Google Pay doesn't do anything special.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:21
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serious gaylord posted:Just why is the US so far behind in card technology? They didn't even have chip and pin in a lot of stores when I went there a few years ago. We're more trustworthy so a mere signature is enough... In practice, it's probably mostly inertia :and transition costs:
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Aug 1, 2018 23:21
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gaj70 posted:We're more trustworthy so a mere signature is enough... in the northeast almost all places are now using chip cards especially all the big chains not sure about elsewhere
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Aug 1, 2018 23:30
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serious gaylord posted:Just why is the US so far behind in card technology? They didn't even have chip and pin in a lot of stores when I went there a few years ago. Retailers are poo poo and don't want to spend the money to modernize.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:35
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Without chip and pin is it not really easy in the US for unscrupulous types to just go on a credit card spending spree and then claim their card was stolen and get it all refunded? Chip and pin usually makes it a little harder to engage in fraud, at least.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:57
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For as long as I can remember, Toys R Us was the most expensive place to buy a toy (was a "kid" with spending money maybe '85-'95). At TRU, it was always MSRP and go gently caress yourself. OTOH, Target, Walmart, almost anywhere else was 5-10% cheaper, and that's not an exaggeration. Bain might have done them dirty, but they were never my friend, as a kid.
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Aug 2, 2018 00:16
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We had the Argos catalogue. Toys start on page 276. https://issuu.com/retromash/docs/argos-no26-1986-autumnwinter
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Aug 2, 2018 00:21
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exploded mummy posted:in the northeast almost all places are now using chip cards especially all the big chains In Northern California almost all my purchases are chip. I think the only places I shop that aren't are the local Peets coffee and a beer store. Even the used book store is chip. Edit: gas stations are all swipe, at least at the pump.
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Aug 2, 2018 00:44
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Blut posted:Without chip and pin is it not really easy in the US for unscrupulous types to just go on a credit card spending spree and then claim their card was stolen and get it all refunded? No, it's not. There's a lot of idiots out there with big bills who thought they could claim that though.
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Aug 2, 2018 00:53
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exploded mummy posted:in the northeast almost all places are now using chip cards especially all the big chains Around here, you often don't even need to pre-authorize / pre-pay gas pumps. You can just put the spout in your tank and start filling. It confuses people from the NE.
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Aug 2, 2018 02:06
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gaj70 posted:Around here, you often don't even need to pre-authorize / pre-pay gas pumps. You can just put the spout in your tank and start filling. conversely i get very confused when gas stations in weird moon countries don’t let you fill up without prepaying at the pump. What kind of Mad Max hellscape is your country that guzzoline thieves exist on a scale worth putting effort into deterring 
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Aug 2, 2018 02:24
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:conversely i get very confused when gas stations in weird moon countries don’t let you fill up without prepaying at the pump. What kind of Mad Max hellscape is your country that guzzoline thieves exist on a scale worth putting effort into deterring It usually gets turned into a law because people end up getting run over and killed trying to prevent gas-and-dashes. It's rare, and security cameras have a very high deterrence rate because you've either already stolen a car (in which case who gives a gently caress about gas?) or you're going to be tracked down via your number plate, but for some reason employees still try to stop it and end up dying tragically out of some kind of misplaced sense of loyalty to their employer. If the gas stations/owners themselves gave a poo poo, it would be policy to require prepayment without laws being passed. It's entirely about protecting employees.
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Aug 2, 2018 02:43
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serious gaylord posted:Just why is the US so far behind in card technology? They didn't even have chip and pin in a lot of stores when I went there a few years ago. Consumer protection laws. The countries that made a fast push to chip-and-PIN were mostly the ones where banks and merchants could legally say "the technology is perfectly secure, all fraud is the consumer's fault because they must have negligently disclosed their PIN." As lovely as the US is about most consumer protection laws, we have really good protections against people being held responsible for credit card fraud they didn't commit.
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Aug 2, 2018 02:54
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Space Gopher posted:Consumer protection laws. That's not true, consumers still have very strong protections in Canada with regard to credit card fraud (thank god, I've been compromised twice) and we went all-in on chip+PIN.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:02
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Hey team, I worked at Amazon for like 7 years if you got questions, I might have answers  .Just curious bwhat questions you have.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:02
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PT6A posted:That's not true, consumers still have very strong protections in Canada with regard to credit card fraud (thank god, I've been compromised twice) and we went all-in on chip+PIN. Canada didn't start actually switching to "everyone uses chip and pin" until 2007. Meanwhile the predecessor systems in Europe started from the mid-80s and the current EMV standard design dates to 1993, with European countries starting the full-scale switch over about 1995 or so.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:19
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fishmech posted:Canada didn't start actually switching to "everyone uses chip and pin" until 2007. Meanwhile the predecessor systems in Europe started from the mid-80s and the current EMV standard design dates to 1993, with European countries starting the full-scale switch over about 1995 or so. Huh, I didn't know that, I figured we adopted it around the same time as everyone else.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:21
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PT6A posted:It usually gets turned into a law because people end up getting run over and killed trying to prevent gas-and-dashes. It's rare, and security cameras have a very high deterrence rate because you've either already stolen a car (in which case who gives a gently caress about gas?) or you're going to be tracked down via your number plate, but for some reason employees still try to stop it and end up dying tragically out of some kind of misplaced sense of loyalty to their employer. Part of that I imagine is that they could get away with it by that point. When people still mostly paid for gas with cash I really doubt they'd be so all in on prepay or pay at the pump. You have no idea how much it will cost to the penny to fill up so prepaying would be a pain. When pay at the pump started spreading more and more places required you either pay there or prepay. Most people didn't notice because really, who even uses cash these days? Basically everything is cards now.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:31
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Part of that I imagine is that they could get away with it by that point. When people still mostly paid for gas with cash I really doubt they'd be so all in on prepay or pay at the pump. You have no idea how much it will cost to the penny to fill up so prepaying would be a pain. Also, what I discovered one time is that if you pre-auth $20 to obtain $20 of gas, the last 2 litres or so dribble out like a 90-year-old's pissstream because gently caress forbid you get 3 cents worth of free gas.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:36
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Part of that I imagine is that they could get away with it by that point. When people still mostly paid for gas with cash I really doubt they'd be so all in on prepay or pay at the pump. You have no idea how much it will cost to the penny to fill up so prepaying would be a pain.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:36
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In Michigan you could pump before paying in the 90s. I remember my cousins in NYC balking at my surprise that you had to prepay at their stations.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:42
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HEY NONG MAN posted:In Michigan you could pump before paying in the 90s. I remember my cousins in NYC balking at my surprise that you had to prepay at their stations. You could pump before paying in Alberta until... this year, I think? Two people got run over trying to stop thieves, though, and now we can't have nice things.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:44
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Blut posted:Without chip and pin is it not really easy in the US for unscrupulous types to just go on a credit card spending spree and then claim their card was stolen and get it all refunded? Xae posted:Retailers are poo poo and don't want to spend the money to modernize.
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Aug 2, 2018 04:04
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gaj70 posted:We're more trustworthy so a mere signature is enough... Every payment processor eliminated signature requirements for the US back in April (because, surprise, making people draw an illegible squiggly line doesn't actually do anything), but it's probably going to be years before people update their terminal software to not ask for it anymore. Interestingly, I've never been asked for a signature when using a US credit card outside of the country via Apple Pay, just on the increasingly rare occasion that a place has a non-NFC terminal and I need to dig the physical card out of my wallet. HEY NONG MAN posted:In Michigan you could pump before paying in the 90s. I remember my cousins in NYC balking at my surprise that you had to prepay at their stations. That's how it worked where I grew up until the oil bubble in 2008 resulted in a lot more people pumping and running. The_Franz fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Aug 2, 2018 |
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Aug 2, 2018 04:14
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OneEightHundred posted:The main thing it protects against is card cloning, but US banks are being lazy as gently caress about requiring PINs. A lot of places (including some big chains like Lowe's) are still running in some weird configuration where paying with debit needs the chip but credit is still magnetic swipe. Most banks are doing chip-and-signature instead of chip-and-PIN too. The PIN doesn't really provide security anymore, it's been well established by the security community that there's too many flaws in how it's implemented and it'd be very difficult to move everyone involved globally onto something that would provide more protection. It's sad but what can you expect from tech that was developed in the early 90s with entirely different expectations for what people could get up to? That's why the US deployment is largely just using chip and signature because it's the chip being present at all that enables real benefits.
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Aug 2, 2018 04:21
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OneEightHundred posted:And if there's one thing they hate to modernize more than anything else, it's point-of-sale. I really don't get the EMV switch. Most of the cost of upgrading is in the back end, training and installation, not the hardware. They went through an entire upgrade cycle to implement a system that was dumb, bad and has been cracked for 15 years. Most of the terminals still don't have NFC, which is probably going to be the future and way more secure than EMV. But uhh... I guess they can say they did something about it?
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Aug 2, 2018 04:39
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PT6A posted:Also, what I discovered one time is that if you pre-auth $20 to obtain $20 of gas, the last 2 litres or so dribble out like a 90-year-old's pissstream because gently caress forbid you get 3 cents worth of free gas. it's a consequence of not under dampening the feedback loop in the control system, which is the right call from a maintenance and safety perspective Electrical control responses aren't instantaneous (to do so would require an infinite number, of data measurements, which is impossible practically) so you get an approximation one of the consequences of using an approximation is that there can be ripple on the control signal if the feedback loop is under damped, which is going to be manifesting itself in inconsistent pumprates and overshoot where why it would give you that extra 3 cents of gas, the pump would kind of either not work or possibly turn into a vacuum and get hosed up so the better way to approach it would be to ideally critical damp the feedback or underdamp it, which will still have the same behavior you're describing in your post, but without the ability to overshoot or ripple note this is only going to really affect the prepaid amount, since that needs to have a pid controller to autonomously work, switching off from a full tank is pretty much a mechanical sensor that gets triggered when the tank is fill and bypasses the control loop entirely
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Aug 2, 2018 04:42
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Wolfy posted:Where are we even talking about? This is not reality in the corner of the US that I grew up in. We always prepaid in cash. All the places I've been (I mostly exist in the great lakes area) only started doing the prepay/pay at pump only thing around the time debit cards became something everybody had. Granted that was also when gas became ridiculous for the first time since the 70's so more people were trying to scoot without paying than ever before. You could prepay but you mostly didn't ever have to. Then pay at the pump rolled around and by the point they wouldn't let you pump without paying anymore nobody even noticed because, gently caress it, we're all swiping cards at the machine now anyway.
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Aug 2, 2018 05:54
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Space Gopher posted:Consumer protection laws. This. US credit card law is basically you're liable for $20 at most of charges if you claim they're fraudulent, unless the bank can prove they're not. So consumers don't care and banks didn't care if the cost of switching was bigger than what they paid out for fraud (and banks can generally reverse payments to retailers for fraudulent charges). EU has the burden of proof the other way for charges that say chip+pin were present (on the theory that they are infallible, which they are not). You are liable unless you can prove it wasn't you. So credit card companies switched earlier since it let them push liability back to consumers.
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Aug 2, 2018 06:07
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ToxicSlurpee posted:All the places I've been (I mostly exist in the great lakes area) only started doing the prepay/pay at pump only thing around the time debit cards became something everybody had. Granted that was also when gas became ridiculous for the first time since the 70's so more people were trying to scoot without paying than ever before. You could prepay but you mostly didn't ever have to. In Scotland they didn't have a card reader in the pump, I had to go inside after I had pumped my gas and pay there. On the plus side, got some Irn-Bru while I was there 
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Aug 2, 2018 06:30
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Fraud has become a pretty big problem with magstripes, as the past few years have shown. And I'm pretty sure a PIN is better than a signature as a safety measure. It's probably more of a question of whether people might use their card less if it has a PIN vs. the additional fraud. American banks obviously went for accepting more fraud.Foxfire_ posted:So consumers don't care Except getting your card swiped and disputing charges is really annoying. I'd rather have a more secure system. Lambert fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Aug 2, 2018 |
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Aug 2, 2018 07:19
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Speaking of failing companies, Moviepass has finally burned through their venture cap funding and is effectively out of business.
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Aug 2, 2018 11:27
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Lambert posted:Fraud has become a pretty big problem with magstripes, as the past few years have shown. And I'm pretty sure a PIN is better than a signature as a safety measure. It's probably more of a question of whether people might use their card less if it has a PIN vs. the additional fraud. American banks obviously went for accepting more fraud. Liquid Communism posted:Speaking of failing companies, Moviepass has finally burned through their venture cap funding and is effectively out of business. 
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Aug 2, 2018 16:57
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U.K. switched over to Chip and pin in February 2006. On that date 55% of all credit card transactions were chip and pin and by 2016 78.5% of all transactions were chip and pin. Before that most people went to the cashpoint and carried cash, today I paid for my dog’s 50p bus ticket contactless.
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Aug 2, 2018 17:32
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