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It's an unfortunate artifact of the system the author uses in FoD that stacking bonuses in one area is massively superior than spreading your abilities. As an example, that dance technique that Ling Qi has gets 36 dice right now. If the art that technique was from was tagged as "music", it would have 48 dice and 1 automatic success instead, which is about 2-3 tiers of difference (the equivalent of going from Han Fang to Meizhen in power). Abyssal Exhalation is even worse, it follows neither Ling Qi's main stats nor her stacked bonuses, and is underleveled besides. Fortunately the system is being discarded entirely once the tournament is over.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 04:08 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 13:47 |
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TheDemon posted:It's an unfortunate artifact of the system the author uses in FoD that stacking bonuses in one area is massively superior than spreading your abilities. As an example, that dance technique that Ling Qi has gets 36 dice right now. If the art that technique was from was tagged as "music", it would have 48 dice and 1 automatic success instead, which is about 2-3 tiers of difference (the equivalent of going from Han Fang to Meizhen in power). Ah, hopefully this leads to her using different abilities in the future. I don't mind her having the mist (or something similar) as a core "signature" art, but right now her fights are some of the most boring ones (as opposed to something like the Gan Guangli/Ji Rong/Lu Feng fight that kicked rear end). It seems like she basically can't win (and can at best draw) if she can't affect them with her mist/frost, but is virtually guaranteed a win if she can. Like, in her fight against Meizhen, Meizhen was just able to resist her mist/frost and that was that. It seems like there's more room for a varied fight if someone is making multiple individual strong attacks instead. IIRC the audience can't even really be blamed for her having so many similar arts, since I think the dance technique and Abyssal Exhalation were both things she just found/received. Since I don't understand much about the combat system (and it seems like you do), do you know why she doesn't just activate the dancing thing on top of her mist or singing? It seems like dancing at the same time as singing or playing flute should be doable. Or why she didn't activate the top Thousand Ring Fortress ability during her recent fight? Was it just about conserving chi? Speaking of her techniques, I normally have a surprisingly easy time imagining combat in this, but my mental image of Ling Qi using the frozen serenade (or whatever that frost song art is) is hilarious. Like I can't imagine her singing during a fight in a way that isn't super goofy. The flute makes more sense; I can imagine her playing some song in a minor key while mist comes out and she hops/flies around. But I have trouble imagining her hopping around while singing without the mental image being goofy as heck. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 4, 2018 |
# ? Aug 4, 2018 05:24 |
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Ytlaya posted:Ah, hopefully this leads to her using different abilities in the future. I don't mind her having the mist (or something similar) as a core "signature" art, but right now her fights are some of the most boring ones (as opposed to something like the Gan Guangli/Ji Rong/Lu Feng fight that kicked rear end). It seems like she basically can't win (and can at best draw) if she can't affect them with her mist/frost, but is virtually guaranteed a win if she can. Like, in her fight against Meizhen, Meizhen was just able to resist her mist/frost and that was that. It seems like there's more room for a varied fight if someone is making multiple individual strong attacks instead. IIRC the audience can't even really be blamed for her having so many similar arts, since I think the dance technique and Abyssal Exhalation were both things she just found/received. Re: the lack of Illustrious Phantasmal Festival and Thousand Rings Unbreaking, it's action economy and a bit of IC strategy. IPF, the dance art, can be used, but at the cost of a major action. Same for TRU. Using a buff as a major action is giving up the ability to attack that turn, or to lay down a debuff, which is rarely worthwhile. Characters also have an instant and a reaction, and those two actions are far more useful to use for buffs. Frankly, neither IPF nor TRU have been developed enough to either be worth a major action or to turn into an instant action (other techniques have done this as the art levels up), and the first 2-3 major actions of a fight usually decide the fight so they're at a huge premium. There are strategies that use them, our full defense with Thousand Rings Unbreaking and Ten Ring Defense and Grinning Crescent Dancer all on turn one can resist pretty much anyone at the cost of giving up first strike and the chance to land an early debuff, but the key is the tradeoff to use those strategies is huge. That's the same reason we can't just make our mists invincible right at the start, it takes three full rounds to do so, so an actual strategy is needed to get to that stage without getting punched too many times in the face in the process. And the thread also decided it would be better to reserve both PLR, the entire art, and Thousand Rings Unbreaking, as no one but Meizhen and Cai Renxiang knows we have those abilities. Other cultivators in this tournament have the ability to respec arts or obtain items from their families or allies, so the more in reserve the better our chances of not getting trump cards countered later. In particular, there's a nice strategy that goes Illustrious Phantasmal Festival into Crawling Horror and Pressure Crack into Lunatic Whirl with a massive bonus from Pressure Crack (LW is the tech I was complaining had weak dice) which can completely shut down an offensively focused cultivator. And like, I just imagine her doing that Chinese martial artist wire flight thing but slowly with her gown billowing behind her and the fog rolling around her and then it works really well to have her singing a haunting melody as she drifts around and turns into shadows to dodge. e: I doubt we're ever getting super dynamic fights with Ling Qi's build. A lot of our wins the author cuts off later rounds because the opponent can't do anything through the debuffs. He doesn't bother to write that so you don't get the fight to the finish in text. If we had such a fight, it would be a guaranteed loss. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Aug 4, 2018 |
# ? Aug 4, 2018 08:08 |
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'If you're winning a fight you don't get to actually read it' doesn't sound like something that should be happening in a story game.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 10:49 |
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The Wandering Inn Volume I is for sale on Amazon now.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 11:02 |
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TheDemon posted:It's correct to say that if the mists are resisted Ling Qi likely isn't going to win, but Ling Qi fought Meizhen really suboptimally. Leading with the frost blast got Meizhen to take her seriously, but simultaneously cost her any chance to win the fight. The current system, and I don't think the basic idea of action economy is going away through the change, depends on each combatant using one or more buffs every turn so their defenses naturally climb throughout a fight to their sustainable maximums. Ling Qi also has a first strike bonus. Hitting Meizhen with a serious debuff before Meizhen can buff and while Qi has first strike is basically step one to actually winning against Meizhen or indeed anyone at Meizhen's level. Then, like the fight against the dragon, Qi would have to drag them into an inefficient dispel attrition battle until they failed to dispel, and at that point can take advantage to make the mists permanent and start using the frost art. This wouldn't work against Meizhen because her counterattack build is utterly broken, but it'd be the most conventional plan against Liling or Renxiang. It's worth noting that we basically aren't able to beat those three at all so even the "best chance" strategy is a long shot, so don't use Meizhen as a measuring stick. It's weird that they bothered to invent a game system for the book.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 11:38 |
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drilldo squirt posted:It's weird that they bothered to invent a game system for the book. It seems to be heavily based on WoD/Storyteller, so not wholly new art (odd choice of system- it's not that great to begin with and it scales really poorly). Still weird, though. It's a lot more heavyweight than most CYOAs, and adds... what, exactly? The opportunity for a bunch of forumers to break their brains arguing about doping schedules and dice caps?
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 12:27 |
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in other disappointing subjects i very much enjoyed Transmigrator Meets Reinarnator for nearly 300 chapters of dowry management, social intrigue and gathering immense influence through the application of knowing how to cook a wide variety of food but it did sadly remember that it's technically a romance and the (very and occassionally disturbingly) accurately portrayed abusive husband relationship just sort of starts up again with him being just normal abusive rather than ruthlessly so. It was incredibly an incredibly depressing (and distressing, which is why i had to stop) surrender to toxic het nonsense after like, very accurate depictions of the aftermath of helplessness and trauma that felt like the author just realizing what the problem was but not being able to imagine a way out
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 15:03 |
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Autonomous Monster posted:It seems to be heavily based on WoD/Storyteller, so not wholly new art (odd choice of system- it's not that great to begin with and it scales really poorly). At least they didn't copy L5R as the rpg to take it from with when you roll a 10 the dice can explode and you roll it again and add them up and if it is a 10 again keep on exploding.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 16:26 |
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atelier morgan posted:in other disappointing subjects i very much enjoyed Transmigrator Meets Reinarnator for nearly 300 chapters of dowry management, social intrigue and gathering immense influence through the application of knowing how to cook a wide variety of food but it did sadly remember that it's technically a romance and the (very and occassionally disturbingly) accurately portrayed abusive husband relationship just sort of starts up again with him being just normal abusive rather than ruthlessly so. Yeah I realized he wasn't going to stop being a horrible idiot pretty fast, which means there's not going to be any romance appeal. Then the narrator got gleeful about her making lazy servants literally piss their pants and I'm out.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 19:06 |
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You know what's a technique/technology in these uplift historical transmigration stories always seem to forget? Lost wax casting. Dr. Stone manga did a showcase in how it can be used to create higher precision parts in combination with a watermill lathe, yet a majority of these stories just gloss over it, not even realizing that a good portion of modern mechanical parts still require this ancient technique to produce. Now whenever I read about "we can't do X, Y, or Z because we don't have the precision parts for it" I get mad because all the materials required to produce the parts is relatively easily accessible, it just takes more effort because we don't have mechanically guided lathes.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 19:53 |
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Ytlaya posted:Speaking of her techniques, almost everything she has is some AoE thing. Mist, frost, illusion dance party, and the abyssal thing she never uses (though at least that has worms she also never uses). I'm guessing she never uses the active effects of her non-mist/frost just because those arts aren't ranked up as much and are flat-out inferior right now. The thread chose to have Ling Qi be an exotic support character so a lot of the stuff the GM gave her were group buff/debuff arts. In order for Ling Qi to start hitting hard she needs to pile on the debuff. And since this is a dice based game system with turns, nerds on the internet have found the optimal build and action sequence and anything that doesn’t fit under it is trash garbage and you are a loving imbicile for trying. Which is why we don’t pew pew with a bow anymore which bums me out because bards gonna twang twang but what do I know quote:One thing I really like is that even random mooks have their own unique abilities with non-trivial effects. Ling Qi is specifically specced to easily beat large numbers of weaker enemies, but Gan Gaungli's soldiers were able to put up some resistance against Ji Rong and their attacks couldn't just be shrugged off.
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# ? Aug 4, 2018 22:17 |
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I don't see how Ling Qi's fights can ever be as exciting as other people's since we will always know what we are able to do and therefore the only real surprise comes in the form of what whoever we're fighting is able to do. There might eventually be more variance in how fights go, but I don't think we're ever really going to drift very far from our theme of tanky musician that debuffs and poisons in an area.
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# ? Aug 5, 2018 03:20 |
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One thing that the web serial format of FoD does well that would be difficult to do with a regular book is create the feeling of a lot of time passing. Like, it legitimately feels like a long time ago that Ling Qi was taking Zhou's class (or a bunch of other events that happened earlier on). There's also been a pretty big change in her personality that could be attributed to her choice of cultivation - earlier on she had this sort of "gritty street kid who's good at collecting info and tricking people" thing going on, but now she has more of a "aloof/confident in an icy sorta way" feel. You could also arguably draw a connection to her earlier heavier use of wind-element arts and her now heavier focus on dark/frost stuff.TheDemon posted:And the thread also decided it would be better to reserve both PLR, the entire art, and Thousand Rings Unbreaking, as no one but Meizhen and Cai Renxiang knows we have those abilities. Ahhh, I hadn't considered this. Yeah, that's a pretty good reason to be sticking to just our basic mist/frost stuff unless forced to do otherwise (which we haven't been in any important fight yet). Its Rinaldo posted:The thread chose to have Ling Qi be an exotic support character so a lot of the stuff the GM gave her were group buff/debuff arts. In order for Ling Qi to start hitting hard she needs to pile on the debuff. And since this is a dice based game system with turns, nerds on the internet have found the optimal build and action sequence and anything that doesn’t fit under it is trash garbage and you are a loving imbicile for trying. I'm always jealous of the other characters with their rad skills, like Ji Rong's lightning arms, Cai Renxiang's lasers, and Sun Liling's extra blood limbs that throw spiky blood spears. Sampatrick posted:I don't see how Ling Qi's fights can ever be as exciting as other people's since we will always know what we are able to do and therefore the only real surprise comes in the form of what whoever we're fighting is able to do. There might eventually be more variance in how fights go, but I don't think we're ever really going to drift very far from our theme of tanky musician that debuffs and poisons in an area. Yeah, but even if I was aware of her skill suite I'd still personally find it more fun to read about a character whose style revolved around the exchange of a bunch of strong attacks rather than stacking up a bunch of debuffs/buffs and avoid the enemy. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 5, 2018 |
# ? Aug 5, 2018 21:29 |
I think her fights and style are pretty fun to read to be honest. Lasers are fun, but so is creating a literal rave in the middle of a fight. Lightning arms are cool but Ling Qi can literally turn into darkness or teleport from shadow to shadow. Blood limbs are sweet, but so is creating a mist that is filled with twisted and monstrous creatures that feed on the poor fools caught within.
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# ? Aug 5, 2018 22:23 |
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It just doesn't have the "oomph" of blastin' a dude or punching him in the face, though!
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# ? Aug 5, 2018 22:26 |
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Ytlaya posted:It just doesn't have the "oomph" of blastin' a dude or punching him in the face, though! But Frozen Soul Serenade includes some crazy good blasting abilities
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# ? Aug 5, 2018 22:30 |
Ytlaya posted:It just doesn't have the "oomph" of blastin' a dude or punching him in the face, though! I mean, Hoarsfrost Carress is pretty blasty, I don't think that's actually been used in the tournament yet. Maybe against Shen Hu? Only Spring's End Aria was used against Chu Song, which is kinda hilarious considering how badly she lost, everything was literally passive stuff so Ling Qi was regaining qi faster than she spent it. Sampatrick posted:But Frozen Soul Serenade includes some crazy good blasting abilities Yeah!
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# ? Aug 5, 2018 22:31 |
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So would an ice archery art where we blast icicles the size of tree trunks
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# ? Aug 6, 2018 02:18 |
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as far as I can tell Ling Qi basically has no agency in what arts she uses, 90% of it is just whatever the dice give her, so it's sorta pointless to complain about them
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# ? Aug 6, 2018 02:53 |
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By the way, I just noticed yrsillar actually has a Patreon mentioned at the bottom of his posts. It's kinda criminally underfunded (especially since it's easily one of the top WNs I've encountered - I'd overall rank it above Wandering Inn, which has a pretty huge Patreon in comparison), so I threw a few dollars at it (it's actually the first time I've ever donated to a Patreon). While some "technical" aspects of his writing are definitely inferior to some of the other big WN authors, FoD is amazing at developing and managing its cast of characters.Tunicate posted:as far as I can tell Ling Qi basically has no agency in what arts she uses, 90% of it is just whatever the dice give her, so it's sorta pointless to complain about them What do you mean? I thought there's still some decision made as to what she uses (though I've assumed that the author chooses just based on what's "objectively" the best in situations where there wasn't a reader-specified strategy - unless that's what you meant by "whatever the dice give her"?). SerSpook posted:I mean, Hoarsfrost Carress is pretty blasty, I don't think that's actually been used in the tournament yet. Maybe against Shen Hu? Only Spring's End Aria was used against Chu Song, which is kinda hilarious considering how badly she lost, everything was literally passive stuff so Ling Qi was regaining qi faster than she spent it. That may be true, but it's just not the same. While freezing people or creating shadow monsters that attack them is kinda badass in its own way, it's still not as cool as either directly hitting them or shooting lasers/fire at them One thing I'll say is that I actually do prefer her current style to the earlier "wind and throwing knives" thing. Never liked the throwing knives much. One other mechanics-related question - how does Ling Qi's stealth factor into fights? Does her mist let her keep stealth even after the opponent is aware she's attack? Does stealth just give some dice bonus to the attacks she makes, and does that bonus include stuff like (to use your example) Hoarsfrost Caress? Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Aug 6, 2018 |
# ? Aug 6, 2018 05:39 |
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Kumoko anime got a first bit of trailer out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqu4D8P_oLQ We could use a kumoko thread soonish.
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# ? Aug 8, 2018 12:57 |
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Captain_duck posted:Kumoko anime got a first bit of trailer out: So It's A So I'm A Spider, So What? Thread, So What? The CG and non manga designs had me kinda ehh for a second but the game elements look superb and it being based on the LNs mean it has the side story content so I am officially excited.
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# ? Aug 8, 2018 14:19 |
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Ah, so they are doing the opposite of the manga and including the side stories. Makes sense. Most of the CG is okay but that earth dragon is hilariously terrible.
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# ? Aug 8, 2018 15:44 |
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on qidian, tempest of stellar war has finally gotten the translation quality that the writing quality warrants. in short, dire. the focus has shifted somewhat from esports (lol) and plagiarized physics (double lol) to military training, which the author knows just as much about as he does physics (lmao). the earth (meaning china) must compete with the rest of the solar system (also china) to regain their rightful place at the top of the galaxy via esports and military competitions (????????????). however, other space nations have militaries that aren't based solely on nepotism so in a recent chapter, a general remarked that the mc is excellent because of how calm he is while risking his life. except, for the first 300 chapters of the wn he had never actually risked his life even once. his deep experience which provided his many advantages over everyone else who ever lived was doing jumping squats for 2 years in a hyperbolic time chamber. he's also attended college (where they were so impressed at his plagiarized physics theories that they decided to make him an honorary professor at the end of his first year), played video games and now gone through training where the only danger is dropping out. drat, i love garbage fiction.
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# ? Aug 18, 2018 15:26 |
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:on qidian, tempest of stellar war has finally gotten the translation quality that the writing quality warrants. in short, dire. the focus has shifted somewhat from esports (lol) and plagiarized physics (double lol) to military training, which the author knows just as much about as he does physics (lmao). the earth (meaning china) must compete with the rest of the solar system (also china) to regain their rightful place at the top of the galaxy via esports and military competitions (????????????). however, other space nations have militaries that aren't based solely on nepotism so That guy is kinda horrifying to think about.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 02:14 |
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I have to laugh that I think there are 3-5 different web novels about the main character who for ??? reasons goes back in time 5 years and starts playing an mmo and becomes super famous and good because he knows all the tricks from 5 years in the future and where the unique drops happen and different events because he read about it. It is really funny that multiple people have all copied the idea and they all are like 5 years right guys.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 02:48 |
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there are way more than 5. that incredibly specific premise is it's own sub-genre now. i read those sometimes before bed, because they are so astoundingly dull that they make me drowsy. strangely, there is no tag for this on novelupdates despite there being tags for everything an autist can list. gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Aug 19, 2018 |
# ? Aug 19, 2018 03:06 |
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Its so much more specific than cultivator novels and also way way more completely the same to the point you wonder if they hoped readers would forget which one they were reading and just pick it up and continue like it was the same book.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 04:08 |
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the korean versions are about gross misanthropic loners no one likes while the chinese versions are about vicious greedy sociopaths everyone adores. both versions are still really dull, though.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 04:19 |
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What is a cultivator novel?
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 04:28 |
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:What is a cultivator novel? Basically a bunch of martial arts assholes fighting and stealing from each other so they can become immortal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianxia_novel Also, they usually call the protagonist a really kind person despite them being a bloodthirsty psychopath. They justify this by showing them occasionally sparing the life of somebody who was a minor inconvenience to them. IShallRiseAgain fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Aug 19, 2018 |
# ? Aug 19, 2018 04:43 |
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speaking of cultivation the translation of my disciple died yet again was completed today. i've only read like half of it thus far so that should be fun.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 04:49 |
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I got really bored like 80% through it and stopped reading. It has some really great parts but the story has jumped around universes, timelines, and reincarnations so much I lost track of who exactly the supporting cast even was.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 05:11 |
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:the korean versions are about gross misanthropic loners no one likes while the chinese versions are about vicious greedy sociopaths everyone adores. both versions are still really dull, though. What I want to know is if they know how their writing comes off.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 08:12 |
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The ending is kind of a fart. It's so-so amusing on its own but as a capstone to everything else it's meh. Everything to do with the Ancient Hill Sect is pretty fun, and there's some decent arcs after that but it keeps jumping around different universes and loses most of its charm over time.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 08:31 |
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Fallorn posted:I have to laugh that I think there are 3-5 different web novels about the main character who for ??? reasons goes back in time 5 years and starts playing an mmo and becomes super famous and good because he knows all the tricks from 5 years in the future and where the unique drops happen and different events because he read about it. It is really funny that multiple people have all copied the idea and they all are like 5 years right guys. Tsuyokute New Saga posted:The Demon King led his army of demons to wipe out the human race. The Hero, Kail, and his allies attacked the Demon King's castle to defeat the Demon King. The Demon King is slain, but at what cost? Kail lost all of his allies throughout the war. Friends, family, lovers, comrades. All dead, and he is dying. As Kail's life ebbs away in the Demon King's chamber, he notices a strange gem that the Demon King had coveted and approaches this relic to grab it; after an intense light glows, he is sent years into the past. After recovering from the initial shock, now in his younger body, he decides to avoid making the same mistakes of his first time through these years and to become stronger. Hiraheishi wa Kako wo Yumemiru posted:When the Demon Tribes led by a Demon King appeared and launched a massive war at mankind, all hope seems to be lost, until a brave group of heroes managed to turn the tide and even defeated the Demon King. John Serieux, a mid-ranked soldier of World's Resistance against the demon's army, had fortunately been able to witness the Demon King's fall by the Heroes, but also was unfortunately killed a moment after. Miraculously, he was still able to open his eyes, only to realize that his mind had been sent back to the past when he's still a baby! With all the memories of his adult years, the knowledge of many scientific breakthroughs during the war, and information of the upcoming great disaster all intact, John is determined to cultivate his potential efficiently and optimally to help change the future for the best.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 13:20 |
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:What is a cultivator novel? Meditate/eat magic pills to level up your chi and learn magic powers and become stronger/more immortal. Has very defined levels and ranks. Everyone is impossibly arrogant and an rear end in a top hat towards the PC who is generally just as much as an rear end in a top hat who is presented as nevertheless in the right to murder them all over the place. The protagonist has some cheat item or ability that makes them level much faster and stomps all the people who were jerks to them in the past, then this continues every time they level up. Fights are incredibly boring descriptions of how they wave their hands to summon mountains to crush the other guy who is knocked back a dozen paces and coughs up a mouthful of blood, then the second guy waves their hands to summon the Immortal Binding Golden Sky to throw lightning at the first guy. Meanwhile whatever one of the non-entity future harem members is around exclaims how amazing the protagonist is.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 13:33 |
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Piell posted:Meditate/eat magic pills to level up your chi and learn magic powers and become stronger/more immortal. Has very defined levels and ranks. Everyone is impossibly arrogant and an rear end in a top hat towards the PC who is generally just as much as an rear end in a top hat who is presented as nevertheless in the right to murder them all over the place. The protagonist has some cheat item or ability that makes them level much faster and stomps all the people who were jerks to them in the past, then this continues every time they level up. Fights are incredibly boring descriptions of how they wave their hands to summon mountains to crush the other guy who is knocked back a dozen paces and coughs up a mouthful of blood, then the second guy waves their hands to summon the Immortal Binding Golden Sky to throw lightning at the first guy. Meanwhile whatever one of the non-entity future harem members is around exclaims how amazing the protagonist is. The best parts are the overly poetic names the characters keep giving their moves. poo poo like Evanescent Sunlight Eclipses The Supreme Soul should be some Final Fantasy Summon level poo poo, but most of the time it's just the Attack or Defend command.When literal 'punch a guy' move has 5+ words in the name that have nothing to do with actually punching someone I can't help but roll my eyes.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 14:57 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 13:47 |
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that's because more adjectives = better. other signs of quality are rarity and specific age milestones.
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# ? Aug 19, 2018 17:31 |