tight aspirations posted:

Because plants and such don't feel pain in the same way animals do,

tight aspirations posted:

and aren't treated in the same cruel and inhumane way? Pretty loving basic stuff, really.

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

i'm gunna post all of the fake article because its Facebook i'm not a professional of anything lol

Besesoth posted:

There's mounting evidence that this isn't true, and we assume it is because for most of human history we didn't really think of plants as being alive.

Besesoth posted:

When people talk about the "cruel and inhumane" treatment of farm animals they're talking about treating animals the same way farms treat plants.

TinTower posted:

Cernunnos posted:

I imagine their mentions are full of people shouting "Sylveon is trans" at them.

RoboRodent posted:

It can be shown that plants respond to stimulus. They respond to light and water. They respond to being damaged/eaten. They communicate with each other, through airborne hormones or, in some forests through chemicals sent along by symbiotic fungus living in their roots, syncing up so they all produce fruits the same year after several years of rest. Acacia trees produce bitter alkaloids in response to being eaten by giraffes, and warn other trees downwind to prepare themselves. Some plants produce pheromones that attract insects that prey on other insects eating them. Plants may not have central nervous systems, but they evidently don't need one, having evolved in such a drastically different way from kingdom animalia. They're still aware, and this is Thing we're only just realising. It's hard to know if they feel pain, exactly, but they have a form of sentience, very different and alien to our own.

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

this whole derail is stupid because it's pretending most vegans major hanging point is 'animals are treated cruelly' and not 'youre eating animals'. it's not like vegans would eat free-range eggs, even though they're primarily non-viable and it's just a chicken going about their life.

tight aspirations posted:

So plants have mammalian/ vertebrate central nervous systems, do they?

quote:

Perhaps you would like to link some of this 'mounting evidence'

quote:

and cite some sources on your "most of human history" statement, because it's both clear and obvious that plants are alive on account of how they, y'know, grow, breed and display all the agreed characteristics of being alive. People in the past weren't as stupid as you appear to think.

quote:

You're gonna have to explain what you mean by this statement, because on face value, it's really loving dumb. Are you trying to make your initial statement appear less stupid? Because it really hasn't worked.

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

this whole derail is stupid because it's pretending most vegans major hanging point is 'animals are treated cruelly' and not 'youre eating animals'. it's not like vegans would eat free-range eggs, even though they're primarily non-viable and it's just a chicken going about their life.

Brawnfire posted:

the more bees kept the better for everything, especially agriculture.

Brawnfire posted:

I think the fact that we have to do tests to see if plants feel pain vs. just hearing an animal squeal in agony is kind of a clear indication.

Maybe plants feel pain, we're trying to find out. But we KNOW animals feel pain, and we either try to minimize that pain or just dole it out as we see fit. I'd go for minimization.

Garrand posted:

Yes, yes it is

Absurd Alhazred posted:

https://twitter.com/megynkelly/status/1025602317737840640

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

tight aspirations posted:

Because plants and such don't feel pain in the same way animals do, and aren't treated in the same cruel and inhumane way? Pretty loving basic stuff, really.

Besesoth posted:

Okay. Plants react to damage and to ill health. Plants respond to anesthetics, can learn, and can sense stimuli other than direct physical contact. Mimosa pudica has demonstrated the ability to learn and remember for at least a month.

Besesoth posted:

Veganism is part of a long Western tradition of treating non-animal life as things. (Yes, animism is a good example of people not doing that.) The Bible distinguishes between vegetation and living beings. Even in the last "Guardians of the Galaxy" movie there's a scene where a character looks out over a planet full of lush gardens and asks "isn't there any life here?". This isn't exactly a controversial statement.

Besesoth posted:

See, I felt like this one would be self-evident to anyone who's familiar with a farm. Cruel treatment of animals on farms involves keeping them in one place their entire lives, not giving them stimuli, only feeding them exactly what they need to survive, and slaughtering them mechanically or gathering their products (eggs, milk) mechanically and without regard to the health and well-being of the animal. The only difference between the way corn is treated and the way beef cattle are treated on industrial farms is that the combine harvester has to go to the plants, whereas the cows can be led to the abattoir.

Besesoth posted:

The point I was originally trying to make is that vegans treat eating one kingdom of life as horrible and wrong, but every other kingdom is A-OK to gobble up, and just once I'd like a vegan to examine why that is. If their answer is "I know animals feel pain and I don't know whether plants do, and I'm comfortable assuming they don't", fine.

Nuebot posted:

So what you're telling me is that we need to breed brainless crippled animals that can't feel or scream and everyone would be happy to watch farmers shovel around their limp, blobby shapes?

quote:

I don't understand this. Especially since, if I'm remembering my pokemon at least, there is at least one pokemon that does actually switch gender, or at least presentation? when it evolves.

EDIT: Also is the implication that every single Sylveon trans? This boggles my mind way more than it should.

tight aspirations posted:

Krispy Wafer posted:

Once we realize even plants suffer at our greedy hands we'll either all voluntarily commit suicide for the betterment of the planet or decide the pain of others doesn't matter if it stands in the way of our nourishment and thus change our behavior to reflect that.

And that's how our grandkids all become full blown cannibalistic omnivores. Just eating anything slow enough for us to catch it.

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

Oh god please stop

Pyromaniac Ida posted:

There's like a level of veganism where you only eat plants that want to be eaten, like apples, berries, tomatoes, eggplant etc.

They spread their seeds by being eaten and so put a lot of energy into making their seeds delicious.


Vegan chat or trans chat?

Pyromaniac Ida posted:

Vegan chat or trans chat?

Krispy Wafer posted:

Yes, but even then you can only eat that fruit if you poop outside. Otherwise you are violating the food contract.

So you go through all that effort to make sure the Fruitarianist your son brought home has something to eat and now the dog in the backyard is really confused.

DJ Fuckboy Supreme posted:

"FREEDOM OF SPEECH" I shout until my voice becomes a croak and the words have lost all meaning

Besesoth posted:

It's a ridiculous meme based on the fact that Sylveon's colors are roughly the same as the trans pride flag. Some transphobes take it way too seriously.

IncredibleIgloo posted:

We can have both. A tomato is a fruit that can pass for a vegetable, agree/disagree?

DACK FAYDEN posted:

as the woman in question once quoted a goon saying about herself

Sarah Jeong Did Nothing Wreong

Pyromaniac Ida posted:

Vegan chat or trans chat?

EL BROMANCE posted:

How will the internet feel when they find out Sarah is a goon?

Brawnfire posted:

I think the fact that we have to do tests to see if plants feel pain vs. just hearing an animal squeal in agony is kind of a clear indication.

Maybe plants feel pain, we're trying to find out. But we KNOW animals feel pain, and we either try to minimize that pain or just dole it out as we see fit. I'd go for minimization.


Right, I don't really get not eating honey, for instance, since that's one place where the animals couldn't give a poo poo about what we take because they literally make more than they could ever eat ever ever, we have zero-stress ways of collection, and the more bees kept the better for everything, especially agriculture. Is there something bad about honey I don't know? Maybe. But it seems okay to me, so I tend to take proscriptive diets with a grain of salt.

Weatherman posted:

Was a goon, until goony goons gooned off at her and she peaced out.