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Hostess Snack Cake posted:Flip every district red. 
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Aug 5, 2018 04:02
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CheeseSpawn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyPCal-LwxA&t=1273s class identity didn't disappear at all, there was just no choice along that axis - succ or TRUMP is a choice that has racial implications much more than class implications since both hate poors
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Aug 5, 2018 04:02
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CheeseSpawn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyPCal-LwxA&t=1273s Succ
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Aug 5, 2018 04:11
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lol class identity didn't disappear, people making under 30k saw a 16 point swing to trump because he was the only one talking about economic issues even if he was wrong 100% of the time on them
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Aug 5, 2018 04:14
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lol class identity didn't disappear, people making under 30k saw a 16 point swing to trump because he was the only one talking about economic issues even if he was wrong 100% of the time on them Just because they know their own situation is precarious doesn't mean they have class identity. American culture is built around confusing the idea we even have classes at all.
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Aug 5, 2018 04:16
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Trump Winning by a margin of a notorious labor/union stronghold that's gone to the dems the last half dozen elections is an aberration, and you can't read anything into it except that michigan is racist. By the way, it's fine, because we'll convince the conservative latino minorities to flip Texas blue in 2020 along with moderate conservatives in whocaresville. don't worry about it. don't think about the economy it's not the economy stupid
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Aug 5, 2018 04:19
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Just because they know their own situation is precarious doesn't mean they have class identity. American culture is built around confusing the idea we even have classes at all. I think that's what the speaker didn't realize at least in her data, class consciousness was at an all time low due to dismantling of unions and the prevailing conservative discourse in media. Her argument was that racial identities trumped probably class consciousness (due to previous reasons). It's worth listening to for the idpol take imo.
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Aug 5, 2018 04:28
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basic hitler posted:Trump Winning by a margin of a notorious labor/union stronghold that's gone to the dems the last half dozen elections is an aberration, and you can't read anything into it except that michigan is racist. By the way, it's fine, because we'll convince the conservative latino minorities to flip Texas blue in 2020 along with moderate conservatives in whocaresville. "Heh...economic anxiety  " -every well-paid political commentator right now
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Aug 5, 2018 04:36
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https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/1022466953288593409?s=19
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Aug 5, 2018 04:42
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As succ is this is, him visiting every county is good and I hope any future leftist running for a statewide seat would do that too.
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Aug 5, 2018 04:48
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Identity politics as practiced basically meant ceding entire demographics and massive amounts of territory, mainly non-bourgie white people, to the Republicans, including the upcoming generations of disenfranchised, alienated youth facing a dearth of opportunity. It was basically a clarion call to neo-nazis that they could recruit without resistance from a generation that was assumed to be already on board with progressives by right. It's surprising that they weren't more effective, really. The online 'left' was dominated basically by the scions of the bourgeois playing at activism and encouraging the worst tendencies of grassroots movements, causing the new actual left to have to start from scratch.
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Aug 5, 2018 04:54
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Hostess Snack Cake posted:Flip every district red. 
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Aug 5, 2018 04:59
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pretending there's a difference between economic politics and identity politics is what caused Dems to lose large parts of the country tbh
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Aug 5, 2018 05:11
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I posted that on ResetEra because I'm a masochist and I was told that this cannot happen because a large part of the country is racist and that the only way we can bring us from the brink is to outvote the racists. When I asked how we can get more people to vote, this was the answer: quote:Well, let's see. In my lifetime, here are the ways that this has happened:
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Aug 5, 2018 05:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:Lieberman is a complete poo poo, but he's also an incredibly convenient scapegoat for people who want to continue believing Obama and the rest of the Dems had "good intentions" and they collectively didn't want to bc obama had already promised private "stakeholders" that the public option wouldn't be in the final legislation. he made the promises months before he was still telling voters to contact their members of congress if they wanted a public option.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:19
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ResetEra was the Neogaf offsite formed after the original's admin turned out to be the latest in a long line of woke sexmonsters, wasn't it?
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Aug 5, 2018 05:19
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ing! mentum https://twitter.com/kanielaing/status/1025947240903270400?s=21
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Aug 5, 2018 05:20
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I think the truth is that people want a comfortable living and a rewarding job and if you sell the abolition of private property and the dismantling of workplace hierarchy as achieving that, you'll pick up a lot of support regardless of district. Everyone knows how hosed the economy is but talking about More Jobs and the stock market makes you sound suspiciously like a liberal. Imo.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:22
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Aug 5, 2018 05:23
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basic hitler posted:Trump Winning by a margin of a notorious labor/union stronghold that's gone to the dems the last half dozen elections is an aberration, and you can't read anything into it except that michigan is racist. By the way, it's fine, because we'll convince the conservative latino minorities to flip Texas blue in 2020 along with moderate conservatives in whocaresville. MI resident, and yeah MI voted for trump bc they’re racist as gently caress, not because of their precarity or some poo poo. trump talked about the economy in a very cultural context, basically harkening back to the day when the white middle class was most dominant, which was obviously ruined by the browns.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:23
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Gio posted:MI resident, and yeah MI voted for trump bc they’re racist as gently caress, not because of their precarity or some poo poo. trump talked about the economy in a very cultural context, basically harkening back to the day when the white middle class was most dominant. Bernie would have won Michigan. and did in the primaries. it's not all racism.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:25
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Matt Zerella posted:Bernie would have won Michigan. and did in the primaries. it's not all racism. yes he would have. my point is hillary and trump both played idpol and on those grounds trump won because of racist shitheads. bernie has always played up class, and on that turf he would have beat trump.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:28
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The libs tend to use idpol in a very 'we have to help others before we can get to you' kind of way which is obviously pretty loving unpopular
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Aug 5, 2018 05:30
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Relevant to class/identity-chat Article: The Myth of the Rust Belt Revolt From: Slate Date: 2016 DEC 1 quote:... edit: "black, indigenous, and other people of color (BIPOC)"  
Accretionist fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 05:30
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the point is gently caress electoral politics taft hartley killed the militant left and we need a militant left again to build class consciousness as the dominant identity there i solved our dispute
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Aug 5, 2018 05:36
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Agean90 posted:pretending there's a difference between economic politics and identity politics is what caused Dems to lose large parts of the country tbh Heads they win, tails they win. Heads they use narrow liberal idpol to successfully beat back left economics. Tails they win by discrediting the struggle against racism by using poc as a wedge against medicare for all or free college.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:39
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False division. Socioeconomic Justice ftw.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:40
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Gio posted:MI resident, and yeah MI voted for trump bc they’re racist as gently caress, not because of their precarity or some poo poo. trump talked about the economy in a very cultural context, basically harkening back to the day when the white middle class was most dominant, which was obviously ruined by the browns. most voters are low information voters and trump talked about the economy at all in a place with a very insanely dying/dead industrial sector, versus Clinton, who was desperate to say nothing on the subject
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Aug 5, 2018 05:41
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obama and the democrats also had the hubris to push the increasingly unpopular TPP throughout the entire general election obama had campaigned against nafta in 2008 and it helped him immensely in the primaries because he knew even democratic voters hated it lol
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Aug 5, 2018 05:42
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basic hitler posted:most voters are low information voters and trump talked about the economy at all in a place with a very insanely dying/dead industrial sector, versus Clinton, who was desperate to say nothing on the subject
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Aug 5, 2018 05:42
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comedyblissoption posted:obama and the democrats also had the hubris to push the increasingly unpopular TPP throughout the entire general election lol obama sucked so loving much.
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Aug 5, 2018 05:50
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Ghost Leviathan posted:ResetEra was the Neogaf offsite formed after the original's admin turned out to be the latest in a long line of woke sexmonsters, wasn't it? That it most certainly was. Now NeoGAF is just a hive of MAGA chuds
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Aug 5, 2018 05:52
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Reminder: The margin was just 70,000 Rust Belt votesAccretionist posted:edit: "black, indigenous, and other people of color (BIPOC)"
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Aug 5, 2018 07:27
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quote:In short, the story of a white working-class revolt in the Rust Belt just doesn't hold up, according to the numbers. In the Rust Belt, Democrats lost 1.35 million voters. Trump picked up less than half, at 590,000. The rest stayed home or voted for someone other than the major party candidates. okay here's the thing even THIS is an overly pessimistic view of what happened this makes it sound like trump flipped half of the people who voted dem in 2012 but didn't in 2016. but the data is obviously not that granular, we're not following specific voters here. more likely, a much smaller number than 590,000 actually flipped, lots of people stayed home because hillary is bad/victory is inevitable so why not just take a nap/etc., while a bunch of normally disengaged chuds came hooting and hollering out of the woodwork to vote for the first time in a while the electorate shifts in ways that are masked by raw vote totals, especially when you have a singularly uninspiring candidate against an extremely unorthodox candidate. these 2016 non-voters are exactly the demographic that can be activated by non-succ policy but stay home if they hear about even a hint of data consolidation Jazerus fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 07:40
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Larry Parrish posted:identity politics has been completely claimed by the stealthy liberal racists and the outright racists. it must be abandoned for the only true language of liberation: people's war nah the liberals' talk on identity politics is just as fake as their talk on everything else, and members of those identities know it the Dems talk about women's rights on the one hand while backing anti-abortion Dems with the other. they talk about LGBT rights while slow-balling basic equality measures for decades. they talk about minority rights and wealth gaps, and then praise the cops and call for tough-on-crime policies while prpposing means-tested tax credits for African-American families with more than two kids and zero history of drug use identity rhetoric has been claimed by the Dems, but they do nothing to fix the actual problems. it's so transparent a lie that it's barely worth engaging with. just laugh in their loving faces. they think they can claim to be the champions of the poor and downtrodden simply because they're not actively attempting to murder them economic and identity issues are inseparably intertwined and both need to be attacked at the exact same time. anyone saying otherwise is either stupid or malicious. subordinating one to the other is ridiculous CheeseSpawn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyPCal-LwxA&t=1273s not watching a loving video, but I think this is a silly interpretation. class identity absolutely had an impact on the election. the effect may have been smaller than usual, but that's because both candidates had essentially the same economic policy, aside from Bernie dragging Hillary to the left slightly. when two candidates are miles apart on one subject and side-by-side on the other, it's no surprise that the former has more of an impact
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Aug 5, 2018 07:40
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Aug 5, 2018 07:46
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I have never met an actual commie who goes whole hog on identity politics so, yes, liberals are racist and that is why idpol is racist
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Aug 5, 2018 07:52
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I did hear in the chapo thread there's apparently a number of the tumblr idpol crowd who've gone full tankie in the wake of 2016 presumably because people started dunking on them for ignoring economic inequality enough times and they needed to outflank the left to get the high ground while remaining useless and belligerent.
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Aug 5, 2018 07:58
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I think some of us are defining idpol as the stuff you see when a person is commodifying non-class related identities for the purpose of social/political capital to come out on top in moral arguments, while others are using the literal definition of politics of identity (with identity being more than your developed preferences or how you're born)
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Aug 5, 2018 08:06
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ThndrShk2k posted:I think some of us are defining idpol as the stuff you see when a person is commodifying non-class related identities for the purpose of social/political capital to come out on top in moral arguments, while others are using the literal definition of politics of identity (with identity being more than your developed preferences or how your born) That's because there's maybe 2 people in the world world using idpol in that way and the rest is stealth racism
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Aug 5, 2018 08:07
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