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I'm laughing at all you people that don't have caps lock on ignore.
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Aug 5, 2018 06:51
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Seems like you need a citation there, given that I have provided ample evidence of sabotage by the state department and multinationals Sorry, are you trying to claim the government of Venezuela is the state department? You may need remedial Spanish.
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Aug 5, 2018 06:55
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:venezuela is proof that handing over your economy to western multinationals and capital is a recipe for disaster when they start dialing up the economic warfare. D&D liberals can only sputter in rage at countries like the PRC and Russia where western capital is cut out entirely or forced to play along with the local elites. Okay I understand your point here, Would you say that the rationing system in Venezuela directly reflects a soviet union style grocery distribution? Wherein only those with IDs can buy groceries/other items, however in this case it's linked to party dedication and keeping the idea that the country actually enjoys Maduro instead of straight up ratting on neighbors. Another question, Are Venezuelan refineries more efficient or less efficient after nationalization was completed?
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Aug 5, 2018 07:12
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Maybe you should read the article I posted. A single subsidiary of pepsico controls more than half the nation's supply of corn flour. The firms are still producing and introducing new products, the question is why aren't they bringing them to market? Could you provide some more context to this quote? Is it taken from a State Department address to a Congressional Committee? I was under the impression US sanctions were designed to be limited and punish individuals rather than than all of Venezuela, so its surprising to hear US officials boasting that the country will go into default.
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Aug 5, 2018 07:33
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:venezuela is proof that handing over your economy to western multinationals and capital is a recipe for disaster when they start dialing up the economic warfare. D&D liberals can only sputter in rage at countries like the PRC and Russia where western capital is cut out entirely or forced to play along with the local elites. Wow, I didn't know that you wanted everything to be controlled by corrupt oligarchs. Venezuela really is your ideal country, isn't it.
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Aug 5, 2018 07:54
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I never said they were liars, just that any cohort of latin americans who speak english are going to be drawn disproportionately from the ranks of the elite who would absolutely have a problem with PSUV and chavismo. You might as well ask light skinned brazilians how they feel about lula and bolsa familia. This dumb bullshit again. Why do only Americans think it's that impressive that someone speaks two languages in this day and age? It always comes from a position of complete ignorance that projects American problems onto the rest of the world. I know your sheltered life doesn't lead you into contact with people from other backgrounds but it is possible to be brown, poor and educated. There's a humongous collection of media in English the entire world has access to, understanding English is a requirement for someone not American and entitled like you are to navigate the internet. Are you now going to say having access to the loving internet means you're a rich elite? Or are you just going to insist with this racist bullshit?
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Aug 5, 2018 08:20
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Seems like you need a citation there, given that I have provided ample evidence of sabotage by the state department and multinationals CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I never said they were liars, just that any cohort of latin americans who speak english are going to be drawn disproportionately from the ranks of the elite who would absolutely have a problem with PSUV and chavismo. You might as well ask light skinned brazilians how they feel about lula and bolsa familia. “I would like you to not only disprove a negative, but also do it from sources that are extremely lower class. You know, the kind of people that normally do not speak English and even when they do do not have a platform to speak on? This is so that even if you find evidence of the logically impossible task I can dismiss anything you write”
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Aug 5, 2018 08:52
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drilldo squirt posted:I'm laughing at all you people that don't have caps lock on ignore. I didn’t, he’s never posted in this thread before. But it’s nice that idiots come out of the woodwork every time there’s a front-page-US-news article about Venezuela. “Heh, I haven’t followed any Venezuela news in years but I heard a friend at my local antifa chapter tell me that Maduro is space Jesus and he’s saving Venezuela from Amerikkkkkkka. Let me inform all you idiots about what’s going on  ”Literally every time there’s major US news about VZ, it’s a new different person who obviously doesn’t read shut about Venezuela because there is news all the time and not just when it makes the front page of the NYT, but no, they only come to this thread when it’s in the front and center of US media.
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Aug 5, 2018 08:53
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fnox posted:Someone just tried to kill Maduro. Apparently with a drone bomb. This is a confusing video. What is it that made the crowd break and run like that?
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Aug 5, 2018 09:52
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BeigeJacket posted:This is a confusing video. It's hard to say, but I think that the soldiers panicked and ran away from where the explosion took place. I think they just got spooked and started to stampede. I think that this was probably an explosion contained to an apartment nearby, and Maduro is using it to justify his persecution complex. It's going to be really important to watch what the Constituent Assembly does in response to this. It's a blank check to arrest more people, ban political parties, cancel elections, etc.
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Aug 5, 2018 10:52
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https://twitter.com/andreina/status/1025894134752714752 "The GNB maintained their formation" according to VP Jorge Rodríguez beer_war fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 11:54
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Here's another angle: https://twitter.com/victoralcedan/status/1025919629108158465 Yeah after looking at some other accounts from people near Avenida Bolivar, I'm beginning to think there was no drone at all. The official story thus far is that a drone strapped with C4 was flying towards Maduro and a military sniper shot it down before it could reach him. There's several holes in that theory, and you don't even have to go into the realm of how unlikely that shot would have been or how the C4 wouldn't have detonated because of gunfire.
So, my theory here is, there was a gas tank explosion in a nearby apartment (Because it's Venezuela and everything is jury rigged to function), Maduro's security detail immediately reacted as if it was an assassination attempt, panicking the rest of the parade and making them flee in terror. After realising that there was no actual threat, Maduro and his team spun the drone strike story to cash in on some free political capital. There's pictures of the apartment fire, there's statements by firemen, so we definitely know it happened.
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Aug 5, 2018 12:03
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That’s the very same thing I noticed. Immediately after ehatever happened happened the entire military parade immediately breaks rank, without any hesitation or apparent plan How poorly trained are these people? What the hell did they think was happening? What was the plan?
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Aug 5, 2018 12:20
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fnox posted:The official story thus far is that a drone strapped with C4 was flying towards Maduro and a military sniper shot it down before it could reach him. jesus christ fukkin lol. Are there 14 year old boys on Maduros staff that are kept around to come up with this bollocks?
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Aug 5, 2018 13:20
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BeigeJacket posted:jesus christ fukkin lol. Are there 14 year old boys on Maduros staff that are kept around to come up with this bollocks? A 14 year old would have more self-respect. A 10 year old on the other hand maybe.
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Aug 5, 2018 13:32
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Squalid posted:Could you provide some more context to this quote? Is it taken from a State Department address to a Congressional Committee? I was under the impression US sanctions were designed to be limited and punish individuals rather than than all of Venezuela, so its surprising to hear US officials boasting that the country will go into default. It's taken from this press briefing Same idiot realized he just admitted to the sanctions being an economic hit on venezuela and had to backpedal: quote:SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICAL TWO: And I just – I just also want to underscore in talking about our sanctions. They are targeted at the responsible – members of the regime in Venezuela. And it’s really important that our financial sectors are targeted at the placement of additional debt by the Venezuelan Government. Not a single corn – ear of corn – not a single medicine container, not anything that could help the Venezuelan people is blocked by our sanctions. Our goal is to help the Venezuelan people deal with this economic crisis, but also restore democratic order so that they can be in charge of their future again. We are sanctioning the country to the point where the state is about to default, but that in no way could cause food shortages or any kind of humanitarian crisis. Trust us, the state department has never lied about anything regarding latin america! I'm sure goons would also argue that the early 1990s sanctions on Iraq didn't cause high levels of malnutrition and disease and it was just mismanagement from saddam hussein. That's just the nature of american liberalism, past crimes are regrettable but the current ones are cool and good, anyone who disagrees lacks decorum or seriousness to discuss politics.
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Aug 5, 2018 13:34
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The Venezuelan government is refusing humanitarian aid, which is where your bullshit theory falls apart. If you even remotely loving cared about Venezuelans, or even the replies in this thread, you would know it's hellish to even send medicine and food to people in Venezuela in private parcels, because the government seizes them at customs.
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Aug 5, 2018 13:51
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fnox posted:The Venezuelan government is refusing humanitarian aid, which is where your bullshit theory falls apart. If you even remotely loving cared about Venezuelans, or even the replies in this thread, you would know it's hellish to even send medicine and food to people in Venezuela in private parcels, because the government seizes them at customs. Should a sovereign country be coerced into accepting aid from the same state actors who are crippling it with economic warfare? Seems counterproductive, we all know USAID wouldn't introduce spies and paid provocateurs into a country under the pretext of helping it out.
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Aug 5, 2018 14:13
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:It's taken from this press briefing  Food shortages have been around since before the sanctionsFeel free to continue being racist and ignore this information
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Aug 5, 2018 14:16
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Furia posted:
If you want to be pedantic, sure. Are you going to pin the uprisings in 1989 over neoliberal reforms causing food shortages on chavismo too?
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Aug 5, 2018 14:20
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:If you want to be pedantic, sure. Are you going to pin the uprisings in 1989 over neoliberal reforms causing food shortages on chavismo too? I don’t see how clarifying that food shortages had begun in full and had been getting worse and worse before the economic sanctions you claimed caused them is pedantic, but you do you Pretty telling that you did not deny being racist and not caring about Venezuelans either, if entirely unsurprising As of the latter part of your post you should calm down before typing so that those of us with English as a second language can actually parse what you are trying to say
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Aug 5, 2018 14:23
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Furia posted:Pretty telling that you did not deny being racist and not caring about Venezuelans either, if entirely unsurprising I care about venezuelans about as much as America's foreign policy does. Here is US foreign policy "caring" about the health and welfare of its latin american neighbors: 
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Aug 5, 2018 14:27
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I care about venezuelans about as much as America's foreign policy does So if your argument is that they don’t care at all then maybe you should stop posting and shut up when the people who have lived experiences tell you you are an idiot Decolonize how your approach and thinking towards latin american countries, my dude. We don’t need you to project your noble savage/white saviour masturbatory fantasy on us
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Aug 5, 2018 14:34
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Furia posted:So if your argument is that they don’t care at all then maybe you should stop posting and shut up when the people who have lived experiences tell you you are an idiot Nobody's calling you a noble savage and I'm not a white savior. Save that poo poo for the state department coup you so desperately want
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Aug 5, 2018 14:43
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Nobody's calling you a noble savage and I'm not a white savior. Save that poo poo for the state department coup you so desperately want So you are not walking into this thread to save us from our own doom of not following your approved ideology? You are not telling us that the government represents the innate goodness of a state apparatus uncorrupted by capitalism? I understand you do not see it that way because you have not reflected on your tone and speech with respect to minorities, but I can only alert you to what you are doing. Decolonizing your mind is something only you can do. And speaking of voicing unrequested opinions devoid of context, perhaps you should read the thread or at the very least my own posts before you voice them. I have never called for a coup, and neither have most people itt. The central theme of this thread is not “communism bad” as many others like you seem to believe. It’s about how a a small group of people exploits the country, the nature and the population at large to further their own ends. Please inform yourself and engage honestly and in good faith, otherwise you’re just crowding a safe space with your noise.
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Aug 5, 2018 14:57
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Formerly Peven Stan also does not seem to realize the details of the four (4) sanctions orders are available on the State Department website and, in fact, pretty much have to be to allow compliance / not lead to ten thousand lawsuits blooming when people get their transactions blocked or suffer criminal penalties because of secret sanctions. https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/ Tldr: the sanctions are on - A selection of individual Venezuelan leadership figures - American purchase of Venezuelan debt - Transactions utilizing the shiny new Venezuelan digital currency Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 15:11
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Formerly Peven Stan also does not seem to realize the details of the four (4) sanctions orders are available on the State Department website and, in fact, pretty much have to be to allow compliance / not lead to ten thousand lawsuits blooming when people get their transactions blocked or suffer criminal penalties because of secret sanctions. Nobody's claiming that the sanctions are secret here. I just thought it was amusing that the trump state department slipped up and admitted in january that the sanctions were intended to force the state into default.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:13
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Should a sovereign country be coerced into accepting aid from the same state actors who are crippling it with economic warfare? Seems counterproductive, we all know USAID wouldn't introduce spies and paid provocateurs into a country under the pretext of helping it out. A sovereign country shouldn't starve its loving people. A sovereign country that is experiencing a major humanitarian crisis shouldn't be refusing aid. A sovereign country shouldn't be spending millions in useless military equipment and doing stupid loving parades like the one they did yesterday, when its people are dying of starvation and lack of medicine. I wasn't forced to flee my country because of loving USAID, or the CIA, or the US. I've seen the opulent houses and cars of the "socialist revolutionaries" your dumb rear end blindly defends, I know where the money went to. You're on the wrong loving side and it's absolutely stunning that tankie idiots like you persist to this day, despite overwhelming evidence that the elites and bourgeoisie you so despise are the people in loving power.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:18
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Nobody's claiming that the sanctions are secret here. I just thought it was amusing that the trump state department slipped up and admitted in january that the sanctions were intended to force the state into default. And that's the sum of the "economic hitjob"? Seems pretty fuckin' underwhelming.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:20
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fnox posted:A sovereign country shouldn't starve its loving people. A sovereign country that is experiencing a major humanitarian crisis shouldn't be refusing aid. A sovereign country shouldn't be spending millions in useless military equipment and doing stupid loving parades like the one they did yesterday, when its people are dying of starvation and lack of medicine. Yeah but enough about capitalist countries like the United States. fnox posted:I wasn’t forced to flee my country because of loving USAID, or the CIA, or the US. I’ve seen the opulent houses and cars of the “socialist revolutionaries” your dumb rear end blindly defends, I know where the money went to. You’re on the wrong loving side and it’s absolutely stunning that tankie idiots like you persist to this day, despite overwhelming evidence that the elites and bourgeoisie you so despise are the people in loving power. I like how pointing out economic warfare against a latin american country is tantamount to defending maduro or any of the leadership in power. I have never claimed that maduro and PSUV never made any mistakes, just that they are another country like syria, iraq, cuba, libya, etc. under economic siege from the west. Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:And that's the sum of the "economic hitjob"? Seems pretty fuckin' underwhelming. Yeah purposefully demolishing a country's finances and causing it to default is underwhelming.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:24
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I was going to ask which sanctions our current tankie objects to, but I think I have a more interesting variant of that question: are any of them problematic in the eyes of our actual Venezuelans in the thread? I'm specifically thinking of the one on the new Venezuelan digital currency. edit god drat autocorrect
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Aug 5, 2018 15:31
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Yeah but enough about capitalist countries like the United States. lol “butwhatabout the us?!?!?!?!?”
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Aug 5, 2018 15:33
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They didn't just make "mistakes", they stole all of the money. You loving know this, you know how corrupt they are, why would you want to defend them if they're literally just as bad as the staunchest neoliberal? The socialist revolution in Venezuela has only served to distribute an unprecedented amount of wealth to a few families involved with the government, particularly the Flores, who are related to Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores. Their entire extended family is out there buying planes with money taken from PDVSA. There is no loving economic war, billions of dollars were stolen by the bolibourgeoisie. The answer is far easier than there being any sort of US conspiracy to ruin Venezuela. GreyjoyBastard posted:I was going to ask which sanctions our current tankie objects to, but I think I have a more interesting variant of that question: are any of them problematic in the eyes of our actual Venezuelans in the thread? I'm specifically thinking of the one on the new Venezuelan digital currency. The Petro is a completely fictitious instrument used to launder money, private Venezuelan citizens (that have nothing to do with the government) have no use or access to it. So no, they're not problematic in any way, they haven't at all affected the populace, although it made the bolibourgeoisie have to relocate some of their summer houses and yachts from Miami. fnox fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 15:34
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fnox posted:The socialist revolution in Venezuela has only served to distribute an unprecedented amount of wealth to a few families involved with the government, particularly the Flores, who are related to Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores.  
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Aug 5, 2018 15:36
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No but fnox don’t you see? Caps locks broken is an us citizen and nothing could ever possibly happen without involving him or his precious motherland
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Aug 5, 2018 15:37
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fnox posted:They didn't just make "mistakes", they stole all of the money. You loving know this, you know how corrupt they are, why would you want to defend them if they're literally just as bad as the staunchest neoliberal? The actual sanctions, as opposed to whatever Pevs is imagining, are built around A) making it harder to smuggle money out of the country (the individuals sanctions and the digicurrency sanction) and B) making it harder for individuals to sell Venezuelan debt under the table at a discount to line their own pockets (literally all the sanctions). They're pretty much the only foreign policy thing I think the Trump administration is handling better than Obama.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:38
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fnox posted:
that's what I thought about the Petro but I wanted to check with dudes on the ground in case there actually were side effects
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Aug 5, 2018 15:39
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Nice graph rear end in a top hat, it crops just at the point where it starts going back up. Just btw, any reduction of poverty you could have associated with Chavismo, it has been absolutely and completely reverted by now. Venezuela now has record levels of poverty and almost 90% of the population are below the poverty line.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:39
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We should totally praise them for doing the bare minimum, this excuses any mishandling of wealth and the injustices beyond any logic or reason that have been committed. Now post the one with oil production, investment in public infrastructure, access to food, access healthcare, quality of education and general trust between Venezuelans and the government with respect to corruption. I’ll wait
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Aug 5, 2018 15:40
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fnox posted:Just btw, any reduction of poverty you could have associated with Chavismo, it has been absolutely and completely reverted by now. Venezuela now has record levels of poverty and almost 90% of the population are below the poverty line. What a surprise, when asked has chavismo done for the people you moved the goalposts.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:41
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