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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:What a surprise, when asked has chavismo done for the people you moved the goalposts. Do you honestly expect me to congratulate Maduro for creating the largest economic and humanitarian crisis South America has ever seen? Go ahead rear end in a top hat, find me numbers from 2017. Tell me, what does that graph look like today?
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Aug 5, 2018 15:42
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While you are at it I want you to also post the one with the poverty tate mapped alongside revenue in oil. I’d like to see you weasel out of that one
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Aug 5, 2018 15:43
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fnox posted:Do you honestly expect me to congratulate Maduro for creating the largest economic and humanitarian crisis South America has ever seen? if he weren't obsessed with defending Maduro he could plausibly retreat to the somewhat more defensible hill of "Chavez was a great leader, too bad Maduro is a kleptocratic moron and has ruined everything the Great Man built  "It's not a particularly great hill but it's safer than Maduro Good
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Aug 5, 2018 15:44
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Yeah purposefully demolishing a country's finances and causing it to default is underwhelming. I'm sure you're unaware that the country's finances were demolished well before those the debt sanctions were ever put in place, and that you aren't being deliberately dishonest.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:44
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That reminds me, why is a socialist paradise borrowing money against national assets from capitalist vampires in the first place? At the very least, if they want liquidity shouldn't they stick to ideologically correct vampires like China?
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Aug 5, 2018 15:47
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fishmech posted:So do you even have a point to make about Venezuela or do you just want to complain about how everyone to the left of Pinochet is a liberal? Grapplejack posted:VZ goons: man this poo poo sucks, hyperinflation is hitting us really hard Scaramouche posted:Well looks like we have another one guys. I guess the real question is if they're Russian, Venezualan, or iseful idiot. First thing that happens when there's a bombing that doesn't fit your narrative is to call it a "false flag"? That's some tea party truther stuff right there seriously. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2018 15:48
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fnox posted:Do you honestly expect me to congratulate Maduro for creating the largest economic and humanitarian crisis South America has ever seen? Yeah let me find numbers for you after multinationals that run virtual monopolies in venezuela like pepsico have declared war on the people.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:48
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oh god Bob's back, it's a tankie festival (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2018 15:48
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GreyjoyBastard posted:oh god Bob's back, it's a tankie festival Everyone I don't like is a tankie or russian bot, a liberal's guide to arguing with people on the internet (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2018 15:50
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You know, the worst thing about you is that you're sitting here and arguing with people who have watched their country slowly devolve into poverty and chaos over the past few years. They've seen their friends, family, and fellow citizens suffer at the unimaginable greed and corruption of their country's leaders, and witnessed their democracy slowly turn into an authoritarian dictatorship. And you don't care. You're more interested in scoring worthless points on an internet forum by proving you're further to the left on an imaginary line than everyone else, based solely on a few articles you don't understand and the words of a ruthless and criminal dictatorship. You don't want what's best for Venezuela or its people. You just want to be recognized as the biggest rear end in a top hat. Get the gently caress out of here and don't come back.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:51
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GreyjoyBastard posted:if he weren't obsessed with defending Maduro he could plausibly retreat to the somewhat more defensible hill of "Chavez was a great leader, too bad Maduro is a kleptocratic moron and has ruined everything the Great Man built This would be a slightly more sensitive, if still callous position, that you would reach when taking a cursory glance at economic indicators for the entirety of Maduro's presidency, since it becomes apparent that Maduro has been by far the most destructive president in Venezuela's history, having literally erased all GDP growth acquired under Chavez. This would also involve thinking before replying, which he's not going to do. Bob le Moche posted:Liberals are so loving confused about politics at this point that they can't make the difference between left and right anymore, to the point they actually believe that Trump is a socialist. It's like they actually buy into that whole Putin=communist=Trump non-stop propaganda in US media, or that recent WaPo article equating Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to Trump. They lap that poo poo up straight from the billionaire-owned outlets. Nice, the return of the guy who knows so little about the situation on the ground he has to somehow always equate it with American politics. CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Yeah let me find numbers for you after multinationals that run virtual monopolies in venezuela like pepsico have declared war on the people. Has Maduro done anything right? Do you have anything that you can claim Maduro did right? Is there anything you can loving show me that will redeem him?
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Aug 5, 2018 15:52
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Acebuckeye13 posted:You know, the worst thing about you is that you're sitting here and arguing with people who have watched their country slowly devolve into poverty and chaos over the past few years. They've seen their friends, family, and fellow citizens suffer at the unimaginable greed and corruption of their country's leaders, and witnessed their democracy slowly turn into an authoritarian dictatorship. I'm arguing with a self selected set of latin american elites who paid  to register on a mostly english speaking, "comedy" forum. Do you really think that's the best group to get accurate and precise information on what's causing the dire conditions in Venezuela? Do liberals also believe that disgruntled white south africans are a credible source for information on south africa?
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Aug 5, 2018 15:53
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fnox posted:Nice, the return of the guy who knows so little about the situation on the ground he has to somehow always equate it with American politics. Except it's the people I quoted who did that
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Aug 5, 2018 15:54
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Bob le Moche posted:Liberals are so loving confused about politics at this point that they can't make the difference between left and right anymore, to the point they actually believe that Trump is a socialist. It's like they actually buy into that whole Putin=communist=Trump non-stop propaganda in US media, or that recent WaPo article equating Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to Trump. They lap that poo poo up straight from the billionaire-owned outlets. Oh great the og Venezuela thread racist is back yay
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Aug 5, 2018 15:55
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I'm sure that's what you tell yourself so you don't have to comprehend the actual suffering and violence that is occurring in their country, yes.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:55
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I'm arguing with a self selected set of latin american elites who paid No, clearly an American who's read a couple of articles and hasn't ever set foot in Venezuela or even knows a Venezuelan knows more about the situation on the ground than people who were born there. How do you function, man? How can you even bridge that gap in reasoning? Why is it such a jump for you to believe that corruption in Venezuela is absolutely rampant and only got worse after Chavez took power? What has Maduro done right? Please, find one thing.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:57
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Furia posted:Oh great the og Venezuela thread racist is back yay Are you on some "anti-white racism" trip as well now? When I brought up oppression of people of colour and white supremacy in this thread I got told to shut up by the anti-PSUV crowd because "why do you leftists always have to make it about race", "race just isn't a factor in Venezuela", etc
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Aug 5, 2018 15:58
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I'm sure that's what you tell yourself so you don't have to comprehend the actual suffering and violence that is occurring in their country, yes. I fully comprehend the violence and suffering, I just think its going to be hilarious when maduro and PSUV get deposed the violence and suffering will continue, and liberals will line up to say how the new boss is so much better than the old one because he allows western capital to loot their oil reserves. In other words, would you rather live in venezuela or the liberal, capitalist paradise of equatorial guinea, a country with no government outside of US-backed private security contractors and a tax regime where tax receipts make up less than 2% of GDP?
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Aug 5, 2018 15:58
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A serious question. Where the hell are the mods when poo poo like this (caps lock, etc) fucks up a perfectly good thread? I mean, I know D&D modding is hands off for this place (which is hands off compared to the internet generally) but this is getting a bit ridiculous. There's something I'm missing, but what is it?
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Aug 5, 2018 15:58
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This thread is unironically the best source of Venezuela info I have currently, partly because people regularly crosspost articles and stuff when they're not arguing with tankies. 
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Aug 5, 2018 15:58
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Spacewolf posted:A serious question. If they pretend to be arguing in good faith and stay within the topical bounds of the thread, they're generally resistant to smiting. That said, mash the report button if you see a particularly egregious post.
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Aug 5, 2018 16:00
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I fully comprehend the violence and suffering, I just think its going to be hilarious god you are such a detestable excuse for a human being
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Aug 5, 2018 16:01
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I fully comprehend the violence and suffering, I just think its going to be hilarious when maduro and PSUV get deposed the violence and suffering will continue, and liberals will line up to say how the new boss is so much better than the old one because he allows western capital to loot their oil reserves. I would pick any government other than the current one. Matter of fact, you can have any other country that you would like running Venezuela, I don't care, anything other than the politicians we have now. The current situation far exceeds any dreams you may have of a neoliberal hellscape.
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Aug 5, 2018 16:01
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Bob le Moche posted:Are you on some "anti-white racism" trip as well now? When I brought up oppression of people of colour and white supremacy in this thread I got told to shut up by the anti-PSUV crowd because "why do you leftists always have to make it about race", "race just isn't a factor in Venezuela", etc No, I mean racist assholes like you that don’t care people are dying because it’s marginally inconvenient to their politics
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Aug 5, 2018 16:02
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fnox posted:I would pick any government other than the current one. Matter of fact, you can have any other country that you would like running Venezuela, I don't care, anything other than the politicians we have now. The current situation far exceeds any dreams you may have of a neoliberal hellscape. Sounds like you're ready for pinochet II (and liberals agree with you) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2018 16:03
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GreyjoyBastard posted:If they pretend to be arguing in good faith and stay within the topical bounds of the thread, they're generally resistant to smiting. OK fair. My reg date is a bit of (well, no, make that entirely) a lie, I regged and then left for a year+ and yeah, I'm still learning about this place in a lot of ways...And the way D&D modding is decided/done is a total mystery to me, to top the list. But that's a conversation for PMs with people, not here. Here, let's focus on "Venezuela: What new calamity can an illiterate bus driver produce today?" (Answer: See the whole drat thread. Reader discretion advised.)
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Aug 5, 2018 16:04
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Sounds like you're ready for pinochet II (and liberals agree with you) Maduro is worse than Pinochet by any metric. loving, please, find me one thing that Maduro has done right, one. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2018 16:04
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fnox posted:Maduro is worse than Pinochet by any metric. loving, please, find me one thing that Maduro has done right, one. haha that's really tipping your hand there. edit: Here is a helpful case study for the people here on how the US operates in latin america: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile
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Aug 5, 2018 16:06
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fnox posted:I would pick any government other than the current one. Matter of fact, you can have any other country that you would like running Venezuela, I don't care, anything other than the politicians we have now. The current situation far exceeds any dreams you may have of a neoliberal hellscape. You know... I look at the UN, the Trusteeship Council (hows that for a piece of the UN that nobody remembers exists?) and I begin to wonder... "At some point, isn't that what Venezuela is kind of destined for? Why not just admit it and (once Maduro et al are no longer in power) at least have them under a Trusteeship, where at least nominally the Administering Power is accountable to the rest of the UN?" Because, well, I question how sovereign a country in Venezuela's particular death spiral can really be. It shouldn't, obviously, be a permanent thing, but instead oriented on "OK, let's get this country back on its feet where it doesn't need international aid to survive", ideally.
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Aug 5, 2018 16:08
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fnox posted:Maduro is worse than Pinochet by any metric. loving, please, find me one thing that Maduro has done right, one. So far there are thousands fewer disappeared under Maduro, making this point less than ideal to debate.
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Aug 5, 2018 16:11
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Spacewolf posted:OK fair. My reg date is a bit of (well, no, make that entirely) a lie, I regged and then left for a year+ and yeah, I'm still learning about this place in a lot of ways...And the way D&D modding is decided/done is a total mystery to me, to top the list. for a long while the only people moderating D&D were a dude who does not live in the US and somewhere on the other side of the world, a dude in the UK who only moderated one thread, and a dead guy
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Aug 5, 2018 16:14
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fnox posted:bolibourgeoisie 
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Aug 5, 2018 16:15
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Spacewolf posted:You know... What if the trustees loot Venezuela so they can buy yachts and mansions in Miami?  More seriously this is an interesting proposition and I might support it if, as you say, anyone on earth remembered the Trusteeship Council exists.
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Aug 5, 2018 16:16
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exploded mummy posted:for a long while the only people moderating D&D were a dude who does not live in the US and somewhere on the other side of the world, a dude in the UK who only moderated one thread, and a dead guy I forgot to put a 6er while waiting for the queue, 
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Aug 5, 2018 16:18
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Party Plane Jones posted:I forgot to put a 6er while waiting for the queue, I was going to add a corollary that they added more mods so we're now not at the point where the dead guy is outperforming the majority of the forums staff
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Aug 5, 2018 16:20
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Party Plane Jones posted:I forgot to put a 6er while waiting for the queue,  I get to keep posting for a few more hours!
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Aug 5, 2018 16:20
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Sorry to interrupt the inevitable tankie wankfest, but has there been any more info about the ‘attack’ on Maduro? Where did the idea it was a drone come from anyway? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2018 16:21
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BeigeJacket posted:Sorry to interrupt the inevitable tankie wankfest, but has there been any more info about the ‘attack’ on Maduro? Thread consensus appeared to be it was an apartment gas thing that went blammo at a hilariously opportune moment.
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Aug 5, 2018 16:24
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BeigeJacket posted:Sorry to interrupt the inevitable tankie wankfest, but has there been any more info about the ‘attack’ on Maduro? A seemingly Oscar Perez-inspired nationalist group calling themselves "Soldados de Franelas" claimed responsibility. Here's the tweet: https://twitter.com/soldadoDfranela/status/1025883640755093510
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Aug 5, 2018 16:28
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As it turns out, the guy responsible for spreading the big lie that the Maduro government consists of "corrupt billionaires" is a member of an American soft power org favoring "free trade" and a foreign capitalist himself: https://www.as-coa.org/speakers/juan-carlos-zapata
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