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Mr. Nice! posted:They’ve been doing that since at least 2008. Walking into a room that contains a bridge simulator and observing that "mmm, yes this is a bridge simulator" is not the same level of training that civilian commercial mariners get. They at least as far as I remember need many times as many hours of training before they are considered proficient and able to assume a watch. I'm being a bit facetious with the "mmmm yes" but civilian mariners are required to have qualifications in excess of OODs in the Navy before they're allowed to stand a watch on the bridge. orange juche fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Aug 4, 2018 |
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Aug 4, 2018 00:08
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I commissioned when SWOS in a box was a thing and they thought all SWOs could just do everything via CBT and OJT. That’s changed significantly. I don’t know the full extent today, but JOs are absolutely put through simulators before they drive.
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Aug 4, 2018 00:28
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Mr. Nice! posted:I commissioned when SWOS in a box was a thing and they thought all SWOs could just do everything via CBT and OJT. That’s changed significantly. I don’t know the full extent today, but JOs are absolutely put through simulators before they drive. Yeah I was talking about back when we had OODs on DDGs, cruisers, and CVNs who had never done anything outside of captaining a small yacht in Chesapeake Bay while at Annapolis. If they've changed it significantly due to the collisions, that's much better than it was. Absolutely sucks that people had to die in preventable incidents to cause that.
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Aug 4, 2018 00:50
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I've never seen a bridge simulator used to do anything other than learn really, really basic stuff. No tricky situations, because that would make people look bad.
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Aug 4, 2018 01:10
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Simulator exams were some of the most stressful things I’ve ever done, and if I never see the inside of a navigation simulator again, I am fine with that.
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Aug 4, 2018 02:08
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The sonar trainers with the full bridge crew were pretty easy. If a contact comes up it is 100% an actual contact and not a biologic because they are too lazy to use them.
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Aug 4, 2018 03:24
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Seamanship training I received prior to my first tour was three four hour simulator classes mostly struggling to tell the voice recognition software rudder and engine orders over and over again while it said orders to the helm, and one 'multiplayer' simulation with no navigation. Prior to my LCS tour, I went through maybe 200 hours of simulator training after four weeks of lecture that blew my adoc/bdoc (the pre and post divorce tour schools) out of the water. I think they're moving to something like that but for all ships, and the quality of adoc and bdoc is rumored to have been steadily on the rise since well before me. I think it'll be hard to dislodge the training requirements this time but I've always assumed part of the motivation was to get people on actual ships observing actual seamanship earlier and more often. That notion won't disappear forever, nor is it entirely without merit. Edit: It should not be ignored that personnel requirements of the Navy and merchants drive different paradigms. A lot of the time, new ensigns are provided opportunities to learn how to drive under tremendous amounts of supervision that don't exist in the manning constructs of the merchant fleet. You're expected to learn to drive the ship with little simulator time, but there's maybe 20 OOD qualified personnel onboard a DDG/CG/LSD, often in a supervisory or at least concurrent role ready to hop in or provide guidance at a moment's notice. This distribution can sometimes be too much where an assumption that somebody else is there to handle a problem can be made, but generally there's a large network of aggregated skill, though less in any particular individual when compared to merchants. Most warships are also more highly maneuverable than your average merchant ship, meaning that when things line up the bad, as long as you're observing safe speed, you can power your way out of a trouble area considerably easier. The lack of power, response, equipment redundancies and personnel redundancies mean a merchant can be more likely to face a harrowing situation alone and so needs a lot more training and experience than a cog in the standard issue Navy style bridge. piL fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 4, 2018 |
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Aug 4, 2018 04:06
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orange juche posted:Walking into a room that contains a bridge simulator and observing that "mmm, yes this is a bridge simulator" is not the same level of training that civilian commercial mariners get. They at least as far as I remember need many times as many hours of training before they are considered proficient and able to assume a watch. From what I understand, in order to qualify OOD, prospective SWOs will have to go through a fairly strenuous qualification check at one of the simulators, and then go through another one once they hit ADOC in Newport to prove that COs aren't just passing people. If they find that a particular CO passed a lot of people that aren't qualified, it won't be good for them. They've also taken away the ability for CWOs and LDOs to earn SWO pins. https://news.usni.org/2018/07/26/new-surface-forces-instruction-restricts-can-earn-swo-pin Yes, we're supposed to go through them fairly on a regular basis, but that didn't always happen before the collisions. The one in Norfolk is pretty solid, and isn't the head set (unless you're at the BDOC school), so issuing commands isn't so much of an issue there. Since I've only had experiences with the ones at Norfolk and Newport, I won't say more. I know that there is a Fitzgerald simulation for the LCS folks and is available in Newport at least. Having not been through it myself, I can't say how good it is. The Porter simulation is always going to be top notch just because we have the audio from that. I wish there were ways to implement Wet Damage Control simulators to give a better prospective of what we went through, but I don't know how that would be possible. You need a lot more spaces that you can flood in a small area.
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Aug 4, 2018 07:13
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A hull in a pool sounds like all you need to simulate. Sure, it's a really big pool but it doesn't sound hard, probably not even outlandishly expensive. But I'm just a lowly AM2, what do I know?
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Aug 4, 2018 11:41
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I mean a hull in a pool sounds like a good idea but the problem is keeping it under control, because as it takes on water it will lower because it is displacing less water and is heavier. You don't want your wet trainer to kill anyone, the thing about a hull in a pool is it would be hard to drain the water quickly if something went wrong, compared to something like uss buttercup or whatever where the pumps in the room can drain the water very quickly if need be.
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Aug 4, 2018 18:00
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The Navy used to let high school age sea scouts in the Bay Area train on the USS Buttercup. Probably one of my favorite teen memories.
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Aug 4, 2018 18:35
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Are you are the Navy History Museum on the DC Navy Yard, Crabman?
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Aug 4, 2018 20:16
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Yes I am. It’s fantastic, air conditioned and empty.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:18
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Speaking of WAVES, I'll make a plug for the book Code Girls, in which my grandma makes a small appearance, about the women who got recruited to work in the burgeoning code breaking effort during WWII. It's more sociological than technical, talking about what it was like to live and work in that environment and all the interesting quirks involved with inducting women into military service. Like, oh poo poo, we suddenly need housing and entertainment and boyfriends for thousands of young single women in Washington D.C. Pretty neat if you're interested in that period.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:48
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Love that stuff I’ll check it out.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:52
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Speaking of WAVES, I'll make a plug for the book Code Girls, in which my grandma makes a small appearance, about the women who got recruited to work in the burgeoning code breaking effort during WWII. It's more sociological than technical, talking about what it was like to live and work in that environment and all the interesting quirks involved with inducting women into military service. Like, oh poo poo, we suddenly need housing and entertainment and boyfriends for thousands of young single women in Washington D.C. Pretty neat if you're interested in that period. Only one I know much about is admiral hopper since i was on her namesake ship as a divo.
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Aug 4, 2018 21:33
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Mr. Nice! posted:Only one I know much about is admiral hopper since i was on her namesake ship as a divo. Pretty much my favorite person in the Navy and computer science worlds right there
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Aug 4, 2018 23:32
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There’s an 11.8” copper rod on display in the wardroom in her shadowbox. For those not in the know, she always used to hand out foot long pieces of wire and kept this rod in her office because that’s the distance light travels in a nanosecond.
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Aug 5, 2018 00:33
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Mr. Nice! posted:Only one I know much about is admiral hopper since i was on her namesake ship as a divo. She pretty much invented modern computer science, I know who she is because I dabble in coding. I’ve never actually heard of her in the Navy which is a shame.
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Aug 5, 2018 00:40
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Oh yeah. She’s called grandma cobol for a reason. Also she’s one of the few admirals that kept getting called back to duty. In the 80s she was brought back to the pentagon again and was working in full navy uniform with a drat walker. Admiral Hopper owned so much.
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Aug 5, 2018 00:47
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Mr. Nice! posted:Oh yeah. She’s called grandma cobol for a reason. They didn't let Omar Bradley retire either.  This is Bradley with a March of Dimes child in his Pentagon office in 1979. He was 86 years old in this photo.
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Aug 5, 2018 02:38
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McNally posted:They didn't let Omar Bradley retire either. I refuse to believe he passed a push-up test. Did he take it in the goat-locker?
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Aug 5, 2018 02:44
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LingcodKilla posted:I refuse to believe he passed a push-up test. Navy pushup requires just 23 at his age to pass, no clue for army, but regardless no one is asking a senior flag officer to do a pt test.
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Aug 5, 2018 03:14
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I thought title 10 basically specifies that Flag Officers are effectively on their own program when it comes to most regulations.
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Aug 5, 2018 04:39
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LingcodKilla posted:I refuse to believe he passed a push-up test. The endodontist I worked for when I got out was a Captain. He only had one elbow (he lost part of his left ulna and some muscles after a motorcycle accident) and couldn't bend his left arm without pulling it up with his right first. He was not allowed to medically retire, or regular retire because the Navy is always critically short on endodontists. He was waived from almost every aspect of PT. He couldn't do a pushup or run (his poor left arm flopped around), he only had to do the bare minimum of situps for his age (I don't know how old he was but he was past 50). I think most of the time he probably didn't even do the situps, because realistically what are they going to do to him? He was commissioned for over 30 years when I left in 2010 and still not allowed to leave. If they tell you that you can't go, they don't care if you can't pass a PT test. Edit: I should mention though he still is not being held captive, he did manage to retire a few years ago, probably despite someone making great effort to keep him there until he died. Even with one elbow he was a loving fantastic dentist. Sarah fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 15:18
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I’m kidding, I know the rules don’t apply to important people. Oh man Annapolis is very pretty. Much nicer than Great Lakes. 
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Aug 5, 2018 15:28
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Make sure to check out the museum that’s filled with ships carved from bones made by prisoners. Also the best AC in the hot Annapolis summer is in John Paul Jones’ crypt.
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Aug 5, 2018 22:47
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Ron Jeremy posted:Make sure to check out the museum that’s filled with ships carved from bones made by prisoners. gently caress I knew I forgot something. Yeah the bone display was awesome and the ship models kept me occupied for hours. I’m wild for age of sail. I did visit the graveyard and saw all the big names buried there. Also found the worst bathroom I’ve ever seen on a military instillation.  Some random dude in town bought my lunch after chitchatting with me at the bar so overall it was a fun cheap day.
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Aug 5, 2018 23:03
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Sarah posted:The endodontist I worked for when I got out was a Captain. He only had one elbow (he lost part of his left ulna and some muscles after a motorcycle accident) and couldn't bend his left arm without pulling it up with his right first. Permanent limdu is a thing. I'm on it. I only do BCA and who gives a poo poo about that with the new policy. Not that I'm fat, but drat I could be so fat if I wanted to. As a chief I only got it because I'm close to 20 and out, but hell any actual important bperson could probably have it forever.
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Aug 6, 2018 01:06
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LingcodKilla posted:
There's much, much worse.
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Aug 6, 2018 01:53
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I've shat in worse
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Aug 6, 2018 02:05
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King of Bees posted:Permanent limdu is a thing. I'm on it. I only do BCA and who gives a poo poo about that with the new policy. Not that I'm fat, but drat I could be so fat if I wanted to. As a chief I only got it because I'm close to 20 and out, but hell any actual important bperson could probably have it forever. I thought that the recent policy change poo poo all over this, and now you only get a year to be fully deployable and off limdu or get pushed out. Or are you saying "limdu" not actually for limdu for a similar but different sort of duty status?
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Aug 6, 2018 02:31
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:I thought that the recent policy change poo poo all over this, and now you only get a year to be fully deployable and off limdu or get pushed out. Or are you saying "limdu" not actually for limdu for a similar but different sort of duty status? There are always waivers.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:36
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Godholio posted:There's much, much worse. Some of the super old barracks bathrooms in dry side Coronado that are never used but just kinda there in case for overflow from BUD/S classes looked like crackhouses. It's a weird contrast in that the part of the barracks that is actually used is super clean and while old, somewhat well maintained because they have BUD/S indoc students and recon candidates living in most of it dealing with constant inspections, but some random parts of the building are just forgotten and a total mess.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:37
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Yeah, despite the insertion (for some/most) of a massive ring knocker ego, Annapolis was a good town to be in college. I even spent one summer there taking an extra course because it was more exciting than going back to butt gently caress GA. Biggest downside was the lack of decent looking women in the area as compared to other college towns. And humidity. If you go back, check out the USNI museum too as well as JPJ crypt. Some decent stuff to buy there.
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Aug 6, 2018 04:41
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:I thought that the recent policy change poo poo all over this, and now you only get a year to be fully deployable and off limdu or get pushed out. Or are you saying "limdu" not actually for limdu for a similar but different sort of duty status? Search your hearts brain, how important will this instruction be in Millington's quest to make the manning boxes in Excel green?
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Aug 6, 2018 05:57
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Yeah if you're the last holder of tribal knowledge for your job field, and there's no other replacements, they're not going to push you out over PFA if they need your brain. They'd much rather keep you in and pay you way the gently caress less than what they'd need to get you back as a government civilian or contractor.
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Aug 6, 2018 13:39
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And on the officer side they do not need your consent, really, they can just tell you that you’re still working and refuse to release you from your office. c.f. How many times stan mcchrystal tried to retire.
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Aug 6, 2018 13:46
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orange juche posted:Yeah if you're the last holder of tribal knowledge for your job field, and there's no other replacements, they're not going to push you out over PFA if they need your brain. They'd much rather keep you in and pay you way the gently caress less than what they'd need to get you back as a government civilian or contractor. They're doing this to E3s in my community over PFAs
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Aug 6, 2018 15:17
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maffew buildings posted:They're doing this to E3s in my community over PFAs Knowing how the last 1940s era porta potties work isn’t that important.
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Aug 6, 2018 15:36
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