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So finally I've seen evidence of the drones actually existing. There's several details still unconfirmed but this is what video evidence and what on site press (that isn't Telesur or VTV) claim.
So the government lied about the snipers, they didn't see it coming, but it appears that it was a legitimate assassination that failed for whatever reason. It's odd that the drones didn't make it remotely close, it's still unclear why it detonates so far from the stage, or why the second one just flew into the building. I'll post the videos I've got soon. fnox fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 23:25
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I'm starting to regret using my monkey's paw to wish we lived in a cyberpunk dystopia.
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Aug 5, 2018 23:28
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First drone https://twitter.com/CESGUAR/status/1026186994102218757?s=20 Second drone https://twitter.com/Adriananunezr/status/1026185087283552256?s=19 There is apparently footage of the second explosion I haven't found.
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Aug 5, 2018 23:33
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fnox posted:So finally I've seen evidence of the drones actually existing. There's several details still unconfirmed but this is what video evidence and what on site press (that isn't Telesur or VTV) claim. Probably due to the operator knowing the operation had failed so he capsized the drone to avoid tracking the origin?
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Aug 5, 2018 23:37
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fnox posted:So finally I've seen evidence of the drones actually existing. There's several details still unconfirmed but this is what video evidence and what on site press (that isn't Telesur or VTV) claim. Oh huh, interesting.
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Aug 5, 2018 23:38
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LeoMarr posted:Probably due to the operator knowing the operation had failed so he capsized the drone to avoid tracking the origin? The government has apparently detained 4 people related to the event, they're blaming Colombia and Juan Manuel Santos though, and they've already lied about parts of the story so you can assume that to be embellishment.
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Aug 5, 2018 23:41
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fnox posted:The government has apparently detained 4 people related to the event, they're blaming Colombia and Juan Manuel Santos though, and they've already lied about parts of the story so you can assume that to be embellishment. they will just arrest loving anyone for the next week because its easy to tag someone as a conspirator then gun them down or put em in a gulag.
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Aug 5, 2018 23:42
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fnox posted:The government has apparently detained 4 people related to the event, they're blaming Colombia and Juan Manuel Santos though, and they've already lied about parts of the story so you can assume that to be embellishment. I would not want to be a radio repair guy in Caracas right now. like, even more than i usually would not want to be a guy in Caracas
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Aug 5, 2018 23:48
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Holy smokes, those drone videos  I was not expecting that at all.
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Aug 6, 2018 01:35
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Noting that a page ago this thread was seriously entertaining the notion that hundreds of people attending a public rally were going to attempt to propagate the same false flag story, either out of terror or blind loyalty one of Washington's geopolitical boogeymen.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:27
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Noting that a page ago this thread was seriously entertaining the notion that hundreds of people attending a public rally were going to attempt to propagate the same false flag story, either out of terror or blind loyalty one of Washington's geopolitical boogeymen. "Hundreds of people"  . Your pal Maduro got all non-state media around there arrested and only a limited number of sources were giving out footage, none of which contained the drone until this latest update. If you're going to defend autocracies, at least learn a little bit about how they work.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:32
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Chuck Boone posted:Holy smokes, those drone videos Same, Good lord this is bizarre.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:37
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Absurd Alhazred posted:"Hundreds of people" Maduro is at once hilariously incompetent and capable of exerting airtight control over all information entering and leaving Venezuela. Got it.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:39
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Maduro is at once hilariously incompetent and capable of exerting airtight control over all information entering and leaving Venezuela. Got it. He's competent at maintaining power and fleecing his people, which is what you love about him.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:40
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Absurd Alhazred posted:He's competent at maintaining power and fleecing his people, which is what you love about him. Your favored regime, the United States, fleeces not only its own citizens but those of the rest of the world.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:44
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Your favored regime, the United States, fleeces not only its own citizens but those of the rest of the world. If there was a piece of poo poo with "Death to America" written on it, you'd
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Aug 6, 2018 02:45
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Your favored regime, the United States, fleeces not only its own citizens but those of the rest of the world. That dude's favorite country isn't even the US, is this what we get now that your agency's other 3 shills got probated? Seriously dude, Maduro is executing the right wing looter government game plan to a T, but for some reason you feel the need to defend the abrogation of socialist principles. Why is that? Defending the current Venezuelan regime is basically like defending a country that was run entirely by Exxon.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:52
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So they were gonna fly the drone at the guy and blow it up the exact instant they were closest to him, and even then, it would just wing the guy and make him look cooler. Then, in the act, they blow up the drone without even making an attempt, while hovering. Also someone just happens to be filming the drone when it uselessly blows up. Not saying false flag but if not, drat, those some dumb terrist.
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Aug 6, 2018 02:56
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Preen Dog posted:Not saying false flag but if not, drat, those some dumb terrist. Well, considering that the US thought a good plan to assassinate castro was slip him an exploding cigar...
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Aug 6, 2018 02:57
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Preen Dog posted:Not saying false flag but if not, drat, those some dumb terrist. I was traveling this weekend so I haven't had a chance to go over this story too carefully, but it does seem to be really amateurish for an attempted assassination. And yet... well, there they are. The last time that I can think of explosives being used in this way was during the protests last year, when demonstrators set off piles of what was possibly fireworks near National Guard soldiers in Caracas. There were two such events, as far as I can remember.
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Aug 6, 2018 03:09
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fnox posted:So the government lied about the snipers, they didn't see it coming, but it appears that it was a legitimate assassination that failed for whatever reason. It's odd that the drones didn't make it remotely close, it's still unclear why it detonates so far from the stage, or why the second one just flew into the building. I'll post the videos I've got soon. Do you have any source on the government making any claims about snipers? The only claims about snipers I've seen have been from that soldados de franelas group, when they claimed responsibility for the attack.
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Aug 6, 2018 03:28
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Chuck Boone posted:I was traveling this weekend so I haven't had a chance to go over this story too carefully, but it does seem to be really amateurish for an attempted assassination. It doesn't seem too amateurish to get two fairly expensive-looking (especially by VZ standards) drones and then load them with high-density explosives. I mean, that's not a fertilizer bomb on that thing, I would guess it's something looted/taken/purchased from the military. It doesn't really feel like a false flag thing either. Maybe whoever was flying the drones was too far away and lost signal? I don't know the range on those things but maybe they chucked it and ran after their first drone lost connection and exploded. Might not be worth speculating, and in any case I doubt we'll ever find out the truth behind it.
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Aug 6, 2018 08:09
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You can get a good 2-3km range on a drone if you go with an older transmitter, but also there's no loving way those are operated from that far away because that'd require a camera and video feeds reach like 100-200m on a good day.
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Aug 6, 2018 08:50
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Truga posted:You can get a good 2-3km range on a drone if you go with an older transmitter, but also there's no loving way those are operated from that far away because that'd require a camera and video feeds reach like 100-200m on a good day. While most modern drones use 2.4GHz digital control transmitters and 5.8GHz analog video, those are far from the only options. Low MHz equipment have less issue penetrating intervening objects. People have even rigged up 4G cellular systems to them. So the range is functionally unlimited. Latency could be an issue depending on trigger mechanism, though. If that video was in fact from the event, the receiver could have momentarily lost signal from the transmitter. Usually this causes the receiver to revert to some predetermined setting like "controls neutral, throttle at 30%" or hold location or hold attitude. The channel the explosive was rigged to may have been deliberately/inadvertantly set to detonate on loss of signal.
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Aug 6, 2018 11:28
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I hadn't even considered that tbh. Even over 3G you could probably comfortably fly a drone, albeit with a some latency and/or lower framerate.
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Aug 6, 2018 11:44
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I honestly don’t think its too far fetched that someone would try something like what the government described. Piloting a drone is by design user friendly and it could have been any sort of explosives, not necessarily military grade ones and possibly homemade. Of course that does not explain why the alleged sharpshooter would just shoot down a drone without, I dunno, communicating with their commander, telling them what they were seeing and awaiting confirmation on what to do (if they did not that’s extremely unprofessional on the shooter. I don’t think anyone with the alleged level of skill would have such poor discipline). Which then does not explain why seemingly no one knew what the hell was going on (which would be extremely unprofessional of the officers in place). Which also does not explain the security detail going apeshit (unprofessional etc). And maybe I don’t know enough about explosives but I’m pretty sure shooting C4 does not actually trigger it to explode (if it even was C4, that could be entirely false for all we know, or not until forensic analysis of the debris, if extant, for damage type and extent).
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Aug 6, 2018 12:05
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Saladman posted:It doesn't seem too amateurish to get two fairly expensive-looking (especially by VZ standards) drones and then load them with high-density explosives. I mean, that's not a fertilizer bomb on that thing, I would guess it's something looted/taken/purchased from the military. I take your point; I don't think that this was planned over beers in a single evening. But still, what we see in the videos are one drone drifting into an apartment building quite a ways from Maduro's stand, and the other hovering in the air and then blowing up. Like Furia said, C4 doesn't explode if you shoot at it, and I'm really skeptical about the snipers theory anyway. I think that what happened was that the drone was detonated by whoever was flying it. EDIT: As Furia pointed out also, we don't know that this was C4. I think that it could be, mostly because getting it wouldn't be too much trouble. Even if it was another explosive that does blow up when you shoot at it, I'm still not convinced that this is what happened. EDIT 2: As Bob mentioned, it looks like only the Soldados de Franelas Twitter account mentioned the snipers. Can anyone find a government source talking about the snipers? If not, and if Soldados de Franelas are really responsible for this, then they may be trying to save face instead of having to say "Our drone pilots had never picked up a remote control before Saturday!". But that's two "if"s. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Aug 6, 2018 |
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Aug 6, 2018 13:13
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NPR was reporting this morning that government sources say the drones were stopped by jammers, which would seem to explain things pretty well.
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Aug 6, 2018 13:29
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The most reasonable explanation is that everyone is super loving incompetent, because this is Venezuela we're talking about.
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Aug 6, 2018 13:44
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Rent-A-Cop posted:NPR was reporting this morning that government sources say the drones were stopped by jammers, which would seem to explain things pretty well. Well that's it then. It makes sense that whoever was flying the drones wouldn't have known about the jammers, and might have assumed that they were shot down. Hugoon Chavez posted:The most reasonable explanation is that everyone is super loving incompetent, because this is Venezuela we're talking about. Ha! There's also the human element. I remember watching an interview of a DEA agent (it was one of the guys who helped track down Pablo Escobar), and they asked him what he thought of the Netflix series. He said that he really liked it, but that the series didn't capture one key facet of the operation: just how often people on both sides made really, really dumb mistakes.
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Aug 6, 2018 13:51
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Rent-A-Cop posted:NPR was reporting this morning that government sources say the drones were stopped by jammers, which would seem to explain things pretty well. Huh, both very plausible and surprisingly competent. Especially given that the White House can’t stop drunken staffers from flying drones onto the lawn (albeit that’s been a few years now)
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Aug 6, 2018 14:55
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Rent-A-Cop posted:NPR was reporting this morning that government sources say the drones were stopped by jammers, which would seem to explain things pretty well. I just saw this from Minister of the Interior Nestor Reverol. He said in a press conference that the drone that got closest to Maduro was "disoriented" by "signal inhibitors" and "special techniques", and that the other drone just lost control. That press conference is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9JoPFrIok8
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Aug 6, 2018 15:03
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That’s... surprisingly reasonable, if unconfirmed (also why would the drone just blow up and not crash like the other one did?). Although it raises some other questions it seems like the best explanation we have so far. e: though the minister’s explanation sounds like total bullshit
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Aug 6, 2018 15:34
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Furia posted:That’s... surprisingly reasonable, if unconfirmed (also why would the drone just blow up and not crash like the other one did?). If your drone and your bomb are on two different remotes what jams one may not jam the other. if you lose control of your drone detonating the bomb and hoping for a golden bullet makes some kind of sense.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:24
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Rent-A-Cop posted:If your drone and your bomb are on two different remotes what jams one may not jam the other. if you lose control of your drone detonating the bomb and hoping for a golden bullet makes some kind of sense. I'm a bit surprised they didn't go the same route that Houthi's did/are doing in Yemen: The Patriot batteries in SA can move but effectively hadn't in 20 something years so they just programmed the GPS coordinates into drones and set them on collision courses filled with explosives. Then again that might have required advanced knowledge of where Maduro was going to stand.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:44
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Party Plane Jones posted:I'm a bit surprised they didn't go the same route that Houthi's did/are doing in Yemen: The Patriot batteries in SA can move but effectively hadn't in 20 something years so they just programmed the GPS coordinates into drones and set them on collision courses filled with explosives.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:52
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Rent-A-Cop posted:If your drone and your bomb are on two different remotes what jams one may not jam the other. if you lose control of your drone detonating the bomb and hoping for a golden bullet makes some kind of sense. Right, but I mean there were two drones: one crashed and the other one exploded. Now I’m speaking entirely out of my area of expertise but I’d presume that the control frequency would be at least somewhat similar across drones, just as it could be across the detonating devices used with the bombs, which were presumably bought at the same time from the same retailer and would likely be identical. So why would one of the drones explode while the other crashed? Why would only one of the bombs explode? Hell, why even go with a remote bomb? I guess it’s possible that the jamming frequency triggered the bomb; then maybe the other bomb was not triggered but the drone crashed, as the other would have had it not exploded. But at this point it’s all maybe getting a bit contrived.
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Aug 6, 2018 20:28
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Furia posted:Right, but I mean there were two drones: one crashed and the other one exploded. I don't find it at all convoluted that a mobile jammer could have interfered with control of consumer grade drones, but not interfered with whatever triggering system was controlling the bombs. It was also my impression that both bombs detonated, but only one was close to the crowd.
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Aug 6, 2018 20:37
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So do Venezuelans prefer to have had Maduro he assassinated by the drones?
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Aug 6, 2018 22:09
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Homemade bombs are not notorious for reliability. Fair enough. Maybe I got it wrong. punk rebel ecks posted:So do Venezuelans prefer to have had Maduro he assassinated by the drones? My personal opinion is no. I don’t think any other replacement they would have for him would be any more damaging than he is (considering Diosdado is second in command I would argue it would be worse if Maduro had died) and the government has enough excuses already to be jailing opponents and suppressing people. Really don’t need Maduro to become a martyr. I’m gonna stop posting for a bit now, I feel like I have cluttered the last couple of pages enough.
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Aug 6, 2018 22:21
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