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Ugh. I hate realizing how much my job hunt is probably being hindered by not maintaining contact with a bunch of random fuckers I don't actually like.
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Aug 6, 2018 16:54
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Krispy Wafer posted:There's so much risk in hiring dumbasses, networking is super valuable because it means at least one person thinks you're competent. Devil's Advocate: Perhaps this is not so much a demonstration of the value of networking as much as it is an example of how bad your company's hiring decision makers are at evaluating candidates
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Aug 6, 2018 17:08
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In any case, I went and followed zeitgeist opinion from here and the working group. If a hiring manager is going to blacklist a person for making an inquiry, they're probably not someone I want to work for. A follow-up question: this group I'm in is all about getting a job you'd love to work at. Other than going through Glassdoor based on region, how does one go about finding a company that you'd love to work at? Just going through Glassdoor or Inc's top companies lists and seeing if they have a department that covers what you do? MJP fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Aug 6, 2018 |
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Aug 6, 2018 17:13
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Krispy Wafer posted:Did the 11 months cross two calendar years? I'd just put 2012 - 2013 on your resume and let them assume it was somewhere between 2 days in December and January all the way to two full years.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:00
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you are an insane person I know it's great to feel like you can succeed faster whilst doing less work overall, but as someone who would likely be on the losing end of this arrangement I just want to pitch an idea that I'm sure will be stupid: what if, after eyeballing someone's resume, you sent a couple of follow-up questions, maybe from a list of possible ones, to gauge whether they're lying about their competence? Maybe one of them could be an open-ended technical question about some core day-to-day task that the person you hire should know how to do (i.e. "We use ___ a lot here -- let's say you have ___ situation, which is a common day-to-day occurrence/task for this job. How would you go about doing ____?"). Maybe a technical person actually doing the job could tell you about their day to day tasks and you could come up with a question based on that. Then you can either continue if their answer doesn't look like BS or give them the "thank you for your application, but..."? That way, you'd could still have the phone call you described except it's after that sanity check and so any technical answer could be cross-referenced with Stack Overflow or whatever for straight plagiarism (depending on how open-ended it is). The applicants would win in this scenario because they would feel like they were at least given a chance to demonstrate value (as opposed to being ignored and not knowing why), and you'd win because you're just asking some copy-pasted questions and seeing how/whether they respond. Sorry for the dumb, naive, retarded idea. Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 6, 2018 |
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Aug 6, 2018 18:01
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why do i want to hire some dumb gently caress who can't network for a client-facing role
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Aug 6, 2018 18:09
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Love Stole the Day posted:Devil's Advocate: Perhaps this is not so much a demonstration of the value of networking as much as it is an example of how bad your company's hiring decision makers are at evaluating candidates Oh definitely. My company's hiring processes (excluding me, naturally) are terrible. They hired a IT security guy who was only available because he was waiting for sentencing so he could go to jail for sabotaging his last job's network. And THAT'S why they do background checks now.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:why do i want to hire some dumb gently caress who can't network for a client-facing role Sorry, I didn't know that the job you were talking about in your post had networking as a primary day-to-day responsibility. I guess I misunderstood the context of your advice.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:20
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Krispy Wafer posted:Oh definitely. My company's hiring processes (excluding me, naturally) are terrible. They hired a IT security guy who was only available because he was waiting for sentencing so he could go to jail for sabotaging his last job's network. And THAT'S why they do background checks now. The fact he insisted on a short term temp position should have been a tipoff.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:51
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Coco13 posted:The fact he insisted on a short term temp position should have been a tipoff. I think he was still hoping he wouldn’t go to jail. If he had insisted on a WFH position I wonder how long he’d have lasted using the prison library computers. Hide his RSA token in his prison wallet and hope he can download VPN.
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Aug 6, 2018 18:56
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OK, got a response: the manager said to email him at his company account and to apply online. So here's what I thought the email ought to look like: quote:Hi Jane, At this point am I over-networking? Should I treat the email as a cover letter and just send that?
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Aug 6, 2018 20:33
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MJP posted:OK, got a response: the manager said to email him at his company account and to apply online. So here's what I thought the email ought to look like: An email like that is great. If she pushes back politely or just ignores you then you're done with just the recommendation. Have good questions ready to ask her. Being very interested in the role and company is a good thing for a hiring manager to see.
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Aug 7, 2018 03:00
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Krispy Wafer posted:Did the 11 months cross two calendar years? I'd just put 2012 - 2013 on your resume and let them assume it was somewhere between 2 days in December and January all the way to two full years. Yep, 2016 to 2017. I like how you think.
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Aug 7, 2018 03:08
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Covok posted:Yep, 2016 to 2017. That’s good on your resume. If there are any application forms that require a month then the gig is up and you have to be honest. But you can definitely format it in a resume to look as good as possible.
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Aug 7, 2018 03:20
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So I've noticed now a number of corporate job applications require you to fill out an online form, including expected compensation (and many of the fields mandate answers). Seems a little harder to get around that than when discussing on-phone with someone from HR, unless there's some clever I'm missing.
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Aug 7, 2018 17:52
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Just put 'Negotiable' or 'Will Discuss At Interview' or similar, or if it only allows numerical input then give a high response, like ~30-40% more than the minimum you would accept. This is the way the corporate world is moving and soon the online forms will be mandatory for all positions below executive level, for the exact reason that they want to force you to name a number first.
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Aug 7, 2018 21:02
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Look at Glassdoor for salaries, set your salary in line with that, on the higher end. If you can't find a number, or negotiable or even something like $1.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:44
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it's also illegal to ask in some states now so move yourself to a liberal enclave like Massachusetts or California
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Aug 7, 2018 22:50
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:it's also illegal to ask in some states now so move yourself to a liberal enclave like Massachusetts or California I think it's illegal to ask how much you made*, but not illegal to ask salary expectations, otherwise offering a job would be awkward. *Even then I think it's legal to ask, just illegal to require it, but it's been a while since I hired in MA.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:52
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you're right, i think it's now that it is illegal to ask someone to disclose salary history
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Aug 7, 2018 22:56
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MJP posted:In any case, I went and followed zeitgeist opinion from here and the working group. If a hiring manager is going to blacklist a person for making an inquiry, they're probably not someone I want to work for. One of the valuable pieces of informational interviews is discovering new firms. At the end of informational interviews I ask them if they know of any good firms I should look at, ones that won’t pop up easily on a google search. Other good sources are nearby universities with departments in the related field, and regional industry associations (ex/ architects will have a list of local firms for each chapter)
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Aug 11, 2018 17:36
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I didn’t get the job. The search continues.
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Aug 11, 2018 17:38
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How would you approach an interview for a position whose scope and duties haven't yet been defined? Background: a fellow alum of my alma mater is president of a company in an industry that I want to get into. I messaged him on LinkedIn earlier in the summer asking for advice on how to get into the industry. He turns around and tells me about a managerial position he's planning to implement at his company next year and tells me that my background is pretty close to what he had in mind for it. He and I talk on the phone once or twice, I have a couple calls with someone in their HR group, and now I'm headed up there tomorrow for a half-day to talk with him and a few other high-level employees. I haven't received any written info about what the position would entail (though we have discussed the general requirements for it over the phone) and have been told not to plan my life for the next 6-9 months around the certainty of this role being created. But they're scheduling a bunch of time for me to meet people there and my president buddy told me that he wants to talk over my CV, so it's more than just a friendly gesture. I'm going to treat it as an actual interview minus coming in with a bunch of canned questions about the position since they haven't given me a clear picture of what it is (and I'm sure that we'll discuss it while I'm there). If nothing else, it's a chance for me to make a good impression on some people in an industry that I want to be in. Does that sound like a reasonable approach? JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:I didn’t get the job. The search continues. Sucks man. Keep your head up.
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Aug 14, 2018 17:35
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C-Euro posted:How would you approach an interview for a position whose scope and duties haven't yet been defined? Yeah, just to set expectations I've worked on multiple roles that were supposed to spin off into a new position and never did, so take the advice to not count on this ever getting off the ground to heart. But to your question, I'd focus your talk on things you've accomplished in previous roles and ask questions about things like what people's organizations are hoping to achieve in the next year, what goals they have, etc. Basically, shift the focus from day-to-day to higher level, strategic things. Asking questions about company culture can also leave a good impression, and give you insight if that's a place you want to stay at or not. Sounds like they already think highly of you, so just keep it going and use this as a chance to find out what you want to find out.
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Aug 14, 2018 19:31
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I've got an offer on the table from company A and am waiting to hear from company B if they will bring me in for their final round. What's the polite way to ask company B to let me know if they're bringing me in and to please move the process along if they are? Would just outright saying, "I've got an offer and would like to know your plans" be taken negativily?
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Aug 16, 2018 00:46
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Xguard86 posted:I've got an offer on the table from company A and am waiting to hear from company B if they will bring me in for their final round. If they take it negatively you don't want to work there. "I have an offer on the table and would strongly consider your best offer if you can let me know by xxx date" If they try to stall they probably aren't going to how you anyway.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:34
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Nice, thanks. I was thinking basically the same thing but wanted at least 1 other person to agree just as a sanity check.
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Aug 16, 2018 02:48
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Alternatively, if you like the offer you already have in hand just accept it, and if the second company comes in with a better one, jump.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:51
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Eric the Mauve posted:Alternatively, if you like the offer you already have in hand just accept it, and if the second company comes in with a better one, jump. Yeah this is also ok. Unless the industry is really small, don't feel loyalty just because they hired you. If you want one to offer up or go away that's fine, but you don't need to feel tied to anyone.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:42
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Eric the Mauve posted:Alternatively, if you like the offer you already have in hand just accept it, and if the second company comes in with a better one, jump. I hear you generally, but this offer is from a referral my close friend made for a position that was never advertised as open. So taking it and renegging would have personal consequences.
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Aug 16, 2018 12:39
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Lockback posted:Yeah, just to set expectations I've worked on multiple roles that were supposed to spin off into a new position and never did, so take the advice to not count on this ever getting off the ground to heart. Thanks, I went with this strategy because in talking to the six(!) people I met with yesterday it sounds like there isn't a general consensus on what they need this role to do nor the time frame at which they want to hire. That's a big no-no considering that my wife and I would have to move if I received and accepted an offer. Oh well, it was still good to practice my interview skills and meet some people.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:13
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Xguard86 posted:I hear you generally, but this offer is from a referral my close friend made for a position that was never advertised as open. So taking it and renegging would have personal consequences. Significantly more so than interviewing, getting a good offer, and then declining it at the last minute would?
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Aug 16, 2018 16:18
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Eric the Mauve posted:Significantly more so than interviewing, getting a good offer, and then declining it at the last minute would? I think it's one thing to gently caress over a faceless corp on this and another to gently caress over an actual friend who referred you to the position. If you accept and then back out, that will make your friend look bad.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:22
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think it's one thing to gently caress over a faceless corp on this and another to gently caress over an actual friend who referred you to the position. If you accept and then back out, that will make your friend look bad. Yeah exactly. She's also put her own effort into it beyond just putting me in a system. I've been upfront with them that I'm talking to another company so it's all good but signing then backing out would be bad. Also, at least this far, I like them a little better, so I would actually be fine if the other company cut me.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:24
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Eric the Mauve posted:Significantly more so than interviewing, getting a good offer, and then declining it at the last minute would? As a hiring manager if a candidate declined an offer I'd be way less annoyed than if they started and then quit. I wouldn't hold it against the friend, but it would be a different situation. Stuff like that can make your department look bad if you have retention goals and usually there is a lot of overhead and spin-up that you'd need to do to start recruiting that you'd have to redo in that situation. You shouldn't take this as a reason not to leave a company if you got an offer, but in Xguard86's situation with the friend it makes some sense.
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Aug 16, 2018 18:57
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Lol well this all ended in a big wet fart. The offer they actually extended was 10k below what we discussed and basically what I make now. Also 10k below my friend there with very similar experience. I'm obviously not going to take it, I have no idea what they are thinking. Other company cut me too. Oh well, what I'm doing now is good enough to truck along Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 22:35
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 your friendjust kidding
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Aug 17, 2018 03:38
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Xguard86 posted:Lol well this all ended in a big wet fart. Counter.
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Aug 17, 2018 03:48
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This is after several salary discussions, where we landed on an agreeable number. Then the offer showed up and it was way less, so I called thinking it was a mistake. Nope, the story I got was that the guy who does final sign off didn't want to pay that much and this is the deal. So idk maybe when I decline they will come back to the table but not much more to be said.
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Aug 17, 2018 12:27
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gently caress that company, you do not want to work there
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Aug 17, 2018 14:07
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