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Aug 7, 2018 04:33
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There's a younger guy at my store running some weird mashup of KCI and Thopter Sword that did surprisingly well last time I saw it, hopefully it's not banned right away and he gets to enjoy his creation a little more.Owlbear Camus posted:I wanted to see how much I could take a match to the pain before this guy would concede and to his credit the answer was "I will never log off." Owns.
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Aug 7, 2018 04:47
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Owlbear Camus posted:I wanted to see how much I could take a match to the pain before this guy would concede and to his credit the answer was "I will never log off." I did this to my opponent earlier. My coward opponent conceded to me casting a Teferi to +1 and RFG their last land. Some people have no determination. I still had 17 lands and 18 white spells to play in that game!
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Aug 7, 2018 04:49
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:It seems to me that every time this sort of discussion comes up it's never "what cards/decks beat KCI?" or "What's the best time to try and disrupt the combo?" or "what angle of attack is most effective in preventing the deck from reaching a combo turn?" The problem with this line of bullshit is you assume 1) The deck can be easily disrupted (it can't, ask anyone who has drawn all of their sideboard cards and STILL lost, having only mildly inconvenienced the combo), and 2) That even if it's possible, that it's fine for the meta to be warped around defending against this one archetype. 1 is particularly problematic because the core of the combo involves a mana ability, which, since it doesn't use the stack, cannot be interacted with in any way outside of running ONE sideboard card in ONE color (Stony Silence). I don't see what discussion you're imagining hasn't happened regarding fighting the deck....I'm sure someone who keeps up with streamers more than I do could post any number of videos where the player did prepare for this matchup, brought in a massive number of hate cards, drew them, and still lost. It's happened to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. "We should change the rules of the game because one deck uses them advantageously and I don't like that deck/decks that do that" is disingenuous and you know it. It's readily apparent that it was not intended for the rules to function this way; it took how many years between Myr Retriever and Scrap Trawler to get this pair of cards with abilities that come together to create this problem. 2 is a problem that has loads of precedent in Modern itself, let alone any other format. My first deck was Melira Pod. That ate a ban because it was "warping the format" to require people to play sideboard roulette to hope they draw ways to deal with a single artifact that could only be activated at sorcery speed and only once per turn. It was considered too consistent. These are both descriptions that apply to KCI, perhaps even more so (I think Pod is safe in a world where WOTC is fine with 5 color humans and Collected Company, if anything those are more consistently brutal than Pod ever was). Dredge has had a similar on-and-off history where it was finally re-banned because the format was becoming sideboard roulette where you either drew your turn 1/2 sideboard hate or you died. And not only should we not have to wait for dozens of tournaments to be ruined by this deck, it's already a known issue. But until you're sitting at 20 minutes past time for round wondering what the hold up is, you're not going to believe it's a problem, I guess. It's not like WOTC is posting detailed timing data from every GP, I don't know where you imagine we're supposed to get the stringent level of proof that you want. The fact is the deck can and does routinely take upwards of 15 minutes per turn; this is not something that is compatible with the marathon round schedules of GPs and other events. You seem to think that's ok, and others simply dismiss it as "only the bad players", but the fact is how many people are going to copy this list because it did well? How many will learn to play it flawlessly? But even if they do, it's been said a million times....it's a combo that takes an insane number of actions, takes a long time to set up, with the possibility of failure so you can't even concede to save time knowing you're dead (e.g. when Storm gets a certain density of rituals in the yard and resolves a Past in Flames, you know it's time to go to the next game because it's not going to fizzle at that point). There has been a ban for a nearly identical situation for this reason alone. I know absolutely none of this is going to change your mind, but calling this lazy whining is dismissive of what I think are pretty coherent, relevant arguments from numerous people for why this deck is not good for the format, but especially for the viability of tournament magic. I'm sorry that this deck you have a boner for is obnoxious and awful and relies on a rules loophole that will probably be closed up.
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Aug 7, 2018 05:55
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This is full of false assumptions about my experiences with the deck/format (I don't play KCI or "have a boner for it") and snide comments about what you assume I will or won't believe. All of your arguments boil down to "you aught to know I'm right" with sprinklings of "someone else can bother with actually supplying evidence or backing this up." You're making a pile of value judgements about the deck and Modern as a whole based on your narrow range of personal experiences and assuming WotC is/should be looking at Modern as a format through that personal lens and agrees with the parallels you're drawing to past deck metagame situations. Regardless of whether or not it is eventually determined that the deck needs to eat a ban (and it might, we'll see once an appreciable amount of data has been gathered), what good does it do fill up the thread with blocks of text about how grumpy you are about it instead of talking about what/how to play against it?
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Aug 7, 2018 06:27
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I love drafting so far, but I don't know what to do with all the cards I have from them. I'm thinking about building a deck so I can play some casual events or in some standard events in my lgs, but can you even build a good constructed deck out of M19 alone? Or I can just find a way to sell my mythics to pay for even more drafts I guess
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Aug 7, 2018 06:32
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Play Stony Silence then lose to Nature's Claim. There. That's how you play against KCI.
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Aug 7, 2018 06:35
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UnfurledSails posted:I love drafting so far, but I don't know what to do with all the cards I have from them. I'm thinking about building a deck so I can play some casual events or in some standard events in my lgs, but can you even build a good constructed deck out of M19 alone? Or I can just find a way to sell my mythics to pay for even more drafts I guess For the folks that I know that are really into drafting they usually go for store credit on prizing to put towards more drafts or trade their cards back to the store for credit and go from there. If the store doesn’t do store credit for prizing only does packs, check to see if they’ll allow you to bring your own packs to the draft (smaller LGS’s are usually fine with this) and trade your standard playables towards packs that standard players win in their tournaments - most of the time they’ll just crack the packs on the spot for a bulk rare that will just rot in their binder.
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Aug 7, 2018 06:46
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BaronVonVaderham posted:"We should change the rules of the game because one deck uses them advantageously and I don't like that deck/decks that do that" is disingenuous and you know it. It's readily apparent that it was not intended for the rules to function this way; it took how many years between Myr Retriever and Scrap Trawler to get this pair of cards with abilities that come together to create this problem. Uh... I hate to break it to you dude, but people were doing this exact thing with KCI+Retriever+Retriever way back in Mirrodin block when they were both first printed.
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Aug 7, 2018 06:52
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The Shortest Path posted:Uh... I hate to break it to you dude, but people were doing this exact thing with KCI+Retriever+Retriever way back in Mirrodin block when they were both first printed. lol what? Why would you need to do it that way, instead of just sacing a Retriever, getting something, then saccing the other Retriever? I played KCI back then and I never saw anyone play both Retrievers and sac both simultaneously. I was 15 though and it was 14 years ago so I don't remember it very well so maybe I'm wrong, but there's just no need to bother with that trick. I also don't think a Disciple based version of the deck was particularly good, since Myr Incubator was a lot less work and generally fatal, and you could play a 1-of Goblin Cannon to Fabricate for if you really needed to kill someone that turn, plus Goblin Cannon gave you a way to kill enemy Disciples. Retriever basically was just a 0-mana Regrowth with an Ironworks out, or a way to chump and get back a destroyed Ironworks or whatever, if you even bothered playing Retriever in the first place. Retriever + Scrap Trawler + 1 drop straight up doesn't work unless you do the trick, because you need to sac both simultaneously to both get two Scrap Trawler triggers while still giving the Retriever trigger the ability to target Trawler.
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Aug 7, 2018 07:33
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When round 4 of my grand prix experience is 30 minutes behind time because some fucker is trying to go off with kci, I'll come back to this conversation. Because this will happen and I'll be pissed.
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Aug 7, 2018 08:40
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C-Euro posted:There's a younger guy at my store running some weird mashup of KCI and Thopter Sword that did surprisingly well last time I saw it, hopefully it's not banned right away and he gets to enjoy his creation a little more. thopter combo deck was fun as poo poo, i miss it
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Aug 7, 2018 10:18
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UnfurledSails posted:I love drafting so far, but I don't know what to do with all the cards I have from them. I'm thinking about building a deck so I can play some casual events or in some standard events in my lgs, but can you even build a good constructed deck out of M19 alone? Or I can just find a way to sell my mythics to pay for even more drafts I guess Depends on your store. Some LGS are filled with people buying up chase rares and running internet decklists, but most are more likely to have folks who are slowly assembling a pet deck, running easy to build stuff like mono-color beats, and sleeving up piles of jank shaped vaguely like a T1 deck one expansion ago because most people who play the game don't sit on mountains of cards or are willing to throw hundreds of dollars at their hobby every couple months (and even many who do often don't have the time to sit and practice their deck enough to completely crush a scene with it.) This current Standard is more likely to have the latter then the former because it seems like half the top standard decks are just chase rares stacked atop each other in a sixty card pile (and thus out of the price range of a vast majority of players) and the other half are ones mere mortal decks can actually interact with using normal cards and not massive bombs, even if the win percentage is going to still be in their favor. If nothing else, don't be afraid to sleeve something up and give it a try. A couple of my favorite constructed decks at the local play level came from random draft junk starts. And if that doesn't work, sell stuff for more drafts. Mr. Locke fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 11:27
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rabidsquid posted:thopter combo deck was fun as poo poo, i miss it It's still around I thought? Like by no means is it tier one but someone has got to be keeping the dream alive right, esp now that deathrite is banned
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Aug 7, 2018 11:40
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Man, gently caress tappedout's gdpr page. Fill in a loving form to opt out? Just wanted some gw token advice.
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Aug 7, 2018 11:46
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Well this certainly is a way to frame it quote:NEXUS OF FATE UPDATE
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Aug 7, 2018 15:43
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Tainen posted:Well this certainly is a way to frame it And even after their change (it's dropping 10x as often as any other card in the "curated cards list" for treasure chests), Nexus is sold out at major vendors at $40.
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Aug 7, 2018 16:55
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I wonder if there will ever come a reckoning for execs whose doctrines have driven companies out of business who once produced sought-after goods and services but had to stop because said execs felt they could wring just a liiiiittle bit more blood from their customers? Outside of the collapse of capitalism and Magic becoming open-source, of course.
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Aug 7, 2018 17:36
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KenBearlLOLOL posted:And even after their change (it's dropping 10x as often as any other card in the "curated cards list" for treasure chests), Nexus is sold out at major vendors at $40. I opened a bunch of chests trying to snag a few due to the price and instead nabbed a Teferi. The price should drop on Nexus quickly enough though, and they can keep the increased chest rate high as long as necessary. Shame about paper though.
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Aug 7, 2018 17:39
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Tubgoat posted:I wonder if there will ever come a reckoning for execs whose doctrines have driven companies out of business who once produced sought-after goods and services but had to stop because said execs felt they could wring just a liiiiittle bit more blood from their customers? Outside of the collapse of capitalism and Magic becoming open-source, of course. Never, they’ll continue to get golden parachutes and escape all repercussions
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Aug 7, 2018 17:41
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Sounds like we need a public information campaign to familiarise the community with the faces of Hasbro execs, 'cause I for one wouldn't be able to tell one from some other old white man who uses his unchecked power and wealth to gently caress children.
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Aug 7, 2018 17:46
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Marketing New Brain posted:I opened a bunch of chests trying to snag a few due to the price and instead nabbed a Teferi. The price should drop on Nexus quickly enough though, and they can keep the increased chest rate high as long as necessary. Shame about paper though. It had dropped from $60 and none available when the change went live to $20 with reasonable availability before the PT. The price isn't falling anytime soon. Even with the additional drops, PT performance has driven the price to a point where demand is outstripping supply and likely will for quite a while.
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Aug 7, 2018 17:57
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Hambly is now claiming his attack was a political move and was a conspiracy among people in the industry and GenCon employees. Dude needs to be on brain medication.
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Aug 7, 2018 17:58
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precision posted:Hambly is now claiming his attack was a political move and was a conspiracy among people in the industry and GenCon employees. Dude needs to be on brain medication. He can't afford it, but luckily someone will set up a gofundme for him!
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Aug 7, 2018 18:11
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precision posted:Hambly is now claiming his attack was a political move and was a conspiracy among people in the industry and GenCon employees. Dude needs to be on brain medication. Dude knows how to generate clicks for ad revenue on YouTube. It's genius.
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Aug 7, 2018 18:15
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If everyone ignored him, he'd eventually go away, yelling about curved foils to people who already worship him. @wizards_magic's Twitter replies were almost not completely full of Kek flags, but now I could see WotC suspending the guy who pushed Hambly just on the grounds that he made their social media life hell for a few weeks longer.
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Aug 7, 2018 18:26
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KenBearlLOLOL posted:It had dropped from $60 and none available when the change went live to $20 with reasonable availability before the PT. The price isn't falling anytime soon. Even with the additional drops, PT performance has driven the price to a point where demand is outstripping supply and likely will for quite a while. I’m pretty checked out of standard until Rtrtr, doubt I’m alone on that either. I think it’ll maintain price for a while but who knows once the meta adapts? It seems like the card is tied to Teferi for obvious reasons, and Azorious doesn’t see guild support for yet another set, while Izzet and Dimir are both present meaning Bolas and Grixis might take center stage for a few months. I’m very skeptical a strategy like turbo fog survives rotation despite a lot of the pieces not rotating.
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Aug 7, 2018 19:28
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Marketing New Brain posted:I’m pretty checked out of standard until Rtrtr, doubt I’m alone on that either. I think it’ll maintain price for a while but who knows once the meta adapts? It seems like the card is tied to Teferi for obvious reasons, and Azorious doesn’t see guild support for yet another set, while Izzet and Dimir are both present meaning Bolas and Grixis might take center stage for a few months. I’m very skeptical a strategy like turbo fog survives rotation despite a lot of the pieces not rotating. What's stopping a Bolas-based Nexus deck from popping up? Bolas is pretty great when you hit 7 mana, Nexus is pretty great when you hit 7 mana. The problem with Nexus of Fate is that it's just a very good card that is rough to build around because it costs 7 mana, but there's plenty of imaginable scenarios where when the mostly aggressive leaning cards from Kaladesha and Amonkhet rotate out, and the midrange and control pieces are better than the aggressive ones in the one Ravnica set that comes in to replace the four sets that leave, it can leave a Nexus of Fate deck primed to take over the metagame. Also specifically Turbo Fog will 100% survive rotation because all the pieces that matter are sticking around, and really it's a matter of whether fogs matter and whether there's just a more powerful control gameplan available that obsoletes the deck. Survival is guaranteed, obsolescense is the threat.
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Aug 7, 2018 19:40
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LifeLynx posted:If everyone ignored him, he'd eventually go away, yelling about curved foils to people who already worship him. @wizards_magic's Twitter replies were almost not completely full of Kek flags, but now I could see WotC suspending the guy who pushed Hambly just on the grounds that he made their social media life hell for a few weeks longer. This could describe almost every random celebrity that everyone hates these days. I couldn't have told you anything about Alex Jones until everyone on every single place on the internet started screaming about him non-stop.
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Aug 7, 2018 19:52
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Tubgoat posted:I wonder if there will ever come a reckoning for execs whose doctrines have driven companies out of business who once produced sought-after goods and services but had to stop because said execs felt they could wring just a liiiiittle bit more blood from their customers? Outside of the collapse of capitalism and Magic becoming open-source, of course. My company locked us out for 7 months a few years ago. I was probably 6 months away from losing my house and had to sell out of vintage to keep it, and I'm far from the only one who was in a similar spot. A guy died of a heart attack because he didn't want to go into the massive debt that would have come from calling an ambulance and going to the ER. Almost everyone with enough time to retire did, costing us literal centuries of experience that we'll obviously never replace (I'm sure they see this as a good thing because they have less vacation to pay for now.) The company lost over a quarter of a billion dollars in those 7 months between paying scabs, lost orders, and material. After we got back, almost half of the salary employees were fired as a reward for putting up with 7 months of 12+ hour days 6-7 days a week. The kicker? The lockout ended up being deemed illegal, which is why they ended it when they did. None of us will ever see a penny, never mind the few million that they owe us, in lost wages because of the terms of the new contract. The even bigger kicker? We went back with almost the exact same contract we had proposed over a year before. Every person responsible still has a job making more than any of us ever will. So no, there never is and never will be a reckoning outside of a complete overhaul that will never come. LifeLynx posted:If everyone ignored him, he'd eventually go away, yelling about curved foils to people who already worship him. @wizards_magic's Twitter replies were almost not completely full of Kek flags, but now I could see WotC suspending the guy who pushed Hambly just on the grounds that he made their social media life hell for a few weeks longer. *ACTUALY* we need to debate these ideas using logic and reasoning because that's exactly what they're doing, yessir, no arguing in bad faith on THEIR side to make them look good to impressionable idiots. Angry Grimace posted:This could describe almost every random celebrity that everyone hates these days. I couldn't have told you anything about Alex Jones until everyone on every single place on the internet started screaming about him non-stop. I unfortunately could. I bought a book from him (I think it was him, or at least his company) a while ago, thinking I'd have some fun reading about goofy conspiracy theories that people come up with. It was just a way to pscam free things. Put the address of the recipient of mail in the return address and "forget" to put a stamp on, complain that a kid running up and down the hall ruined your stay at hotels that offered unconditional money back guarantees. Really basic scams. Dude's a scam artist and always has been. It's about time he finally got stopped. Anyway I'm glad Deathrite and Gitaxian Probe were banned, thanks for reading my post about Magic: the Gathering in the Magic: the Gathering thread.
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Aug 7, 2018 20:05
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 Maybe I'm a pussy, but if I did something like that to that many people, I would be scared for my safety on a constant basis, every loving bump or creak would make me sweat bullets. What industry do you work in?
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Aug 7, 2018 20:26
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Tubgoat posted:
That's why you'll never be an executive. You'll never be spineless enough to do those sorts of things to people.
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Aug 7, 2018 20:45
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If you make a deck with garbage cards in arena it puts you against other decks with garbage and the experience is way better.
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Aug 7, 2018 20:52
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resistentialism posted:If you make a deck with garbage cards in arena it puts you against other decks with garbage and the experience is way better. honestly I'm just playing with the precons they put out and I'm having fun Plus the odd draft.
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Aug 7, 2018 20:57
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Real Magic talk for a second: I don't see any Brightlings in the PT Death and Taxes lists. Is the consensus that it's not actually good like I thought? I like the 3rd/4th place a lot better than the first place list, though tbh I'm not overly fond of either. I guess it was the PT, so the lists aren't necessarily the "best" lists as much as they are the lists they liked for the expected meta. But holy crap 24 is so many lands, even with a Factory and a Canopy which I love and hate respectively. Sunday was my day off so I ended up not being able to watch the top 4. Was it worth watching? Tubgoat posted:
Yeahhh, they shouldn't but I can assure you they have no problem sleeping at night. They didn't show their face around here for a long time after we got back, and I don't think they've been back since, so they know. And like, I really don't care much about myself. If I lose my house, whatever. My credit is shot for a while and I go back to my old job making half as much and working 50% more and live with my mom for a few years. But I had a 6 month old daughter at the time, and she's the only person in this garbage trash world that I care about (and my wife too I guess,) and they almost took her house away. There was a small part of me that wanted them to be so tone deaf that they'd be waiting for us to shake our hands or something after we got back. It's the kind of power move I wouldn't be surprised to see people this this try. I'm extremely laid back IRL (just like online  ) and it takes a lot to get me mad but I'm pretty sure I'd have headbutted someone. I still haven't seen any of them, which I'm glad for. I still get mad thinking about it.Steel industry. So you know, it's cool that that happened and we somehow survived it and now some orange game show host is going to get us shut down with a ridiculous trade war. At least if it happens I can get on the radio and tell everyone I work with that I told them so. Star Man posted:That's why you'll never be an executive. You'll never be spineless enough to do those sorts of things to people. 
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Aug 7, 2018 21:00
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resistentialism posted:If you make a deck with garbage cards in arena it puts you against other decks with garbage and the experience is way better. Is that true? It seems like it is, but I can't tell.
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Aug 7, 2018 21:22
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It's like night and day between my bolas deck getting rdw/scarab god/UW control, and my deck of flying blue pirates getting all elf decks and poo poo.
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Aug 7, 2018 21:28
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resistentialism posted:If you make a deck with garbage cards in arena it puts you against other decks with garbage and the experience is way better. that's what draft and limited is for
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Aug 7, 2018 21:41
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Hellsau posted:What's stopping a Bolas-based Nexus deck from popping up? Bolas is pretty great when you hit 7 mana, Nexus is pretty great when you hit 7 mana. The problem with Nexus of Fate is that it's just a very good card that is rough to build around because it costs 7 mana, but there's plenty of imaginable scenarios where when the mostly aggressive leaning cards from Kaladesha and Amonkhet rotate out, and the midrange and control pieces are better than the aggressive ones in the one Ravnica set that comes in to replace the four sets that leave, it can leave a Nexus of Fate deck primed to take over the metagame. It loses the cycling fog effect and the full 8 cycle lands it played. Trading Botanical Sanctum for the Selesnya shock is kind of a wash(assuming shock reprints for the guilds), but that’s already a worse mana base and a lot less cycling cards. I think there will be a Superfriends style deck that emerges but we haven’t seen a single card yet, and I don’t think it will necessary look anything like this deck. I don’t see Nexus of Fate vanishing either, but the synergy with Teferi’s plus ability and the natural synergy between extra turns and planeswalkers are different than Bolas and Nexus which are both good at 7 but don’t really compliment each other the same way.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:16
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suicidesteve posted:Real Magic talk for a second: I don't see any Brightlings in the PT Death and Taxes lists. Is the consensus that it's not actually good like I thought? I think it's a little too mana hungry. I've been running two and it feels hit or miss. I think it's a better card out of the board because it's just the last thing you want sometimes. Against breakdown strategies though it's fantastic.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:20
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