|
I think that killing Maduro would plunge the country into civil war, so no. The regime has made a democratic transition away from the PSUV impossible, but I still think that the best way forward from all this is a negotiated exit.
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2018 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 14:23 |
|
|
Like I stated before, when a receiving unit loses signal from the control transmitter (even momentarily) the receiver reverts to some predetermined "failsafe". The explosive may have went off due to loss of signal, whether deliberately set to do so or unintentional. From a purely speculative angle, one might want the explosive to deliberately go off upon signal loss because of the fresnel effect, where the transmitter signal bouncing off the ground combines with the direct line of sight signal out of phase and cancel each other out. Or, more simply, because there is a lot of stuff in the way to block signal if the transmitter also happens to be on the ground. A previous poster mentioned interference between the drones, but that is highly unlikely with modern digital equipment. If they used typical 2.4GHz, jamming equipment seems a reasonable explanation (but so would momentary signal loss due to vehicle orientation/nearby buildings/poorly shield microwave oven).
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2018 22:35
|
|
|
Who likely sent the drone? The U.S.? Citizens who had enough?
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2018 22:36
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:So do Venezuelans prefer to have had Maduro he assassinated by the drones? I think very, very few people would actually want to see Maduro assassinated. It has absolutely zero chance of making the country better, given the lineup of people behind him who will be able to seek "righteous vengeance" against real and perceived enemies. Not to mention that it would probably rally support for the PSUV. The US is already getting everything it wants out of Venezuela strategically—oil, good PR against "socialism", and an almost complete inability for Venezuela to continue projecting its anti-US rhetoric—and it suffers few ramifications of the PSUV's disastrous destruction of their own country, as poor refugees are overwhelmingly going to Colombia or Brazil. In terms of cynical Cheney-esque policies, the US could not ask for a better government in place than Maduro's.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
My money is on Edit for content: 350k Venezuelans have come to Perú in the last couple of years and slowly but surely the welcoming mood towards them is darkening because of what I can only describe as a baseless xenophobic rejection as they become more socially visible; it's really disheartening considering our not so recent past (over 2 million peruvians emigrated in the late 80's early 90's because of the lovely economic times we had), and the open arms policy towards international inmigrants I grew up witnessing. zocio fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Aug 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
Personally I want to see Maduro and his cronies rot in an actual jail and be dragged through the mud in front of history, completely unmasked from political views as the criminals they are, not dead. Maduro dying in an attack would spell darker times rather than a solution. The attempt itself is not going to help at all, it will just renew their crazy stories and cause them to double down on violent measures. More military around the street, made up charges to whoever they please, etc. Any excuse for them to spin their abuse as lawful gets taken advantage of.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
zocio posted:My money is on I've seen very little ill will towards Venezuelans in Argentina, although I'm sure we don't have those kinds of numbers yet. I remember reading at least 50,000 Venezuelans entered the country in between the end of last year and the beginning of this one. The thing that worries me is I've heard a lot of histories about Venezuelan robbers and if that trend continues, I'm sure the mood towards us is going to shift as well. Although to be fair, it's purely anecdotal stuff and Argentinians as a whole are incredibly chill when it comes to immigration.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
zocio posted:Edit for content: 350k Venezuelans have come to Perú in the last couple of years and slowly but surely the welcoming mood towards them is darkening because of what I can only describe as a baseless xenophobic rejection as they become more socially visible; it's really disheartening considering our not so recent past (over 2 million peruvians emigrated in the late 80's early 90's because of the lovely economic times we had), and the open arms policy towards international inmigrants I grew up witnessing. People tell me Fujimori was good though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 03:03
|
|
|
Fujimori's Pros: - Stabilized the economy (implementing his contenders measures, yes the same he said he would not implement because they were too harsh). - Balanced the budget (by firing thousands of public workers). - Ended terrorism (he did nothing really, just happened to be there when the intelligence apparatus caught the leaders). Fujimori's Cons: - Destroyed public institutions, political parties, massively promoted an informal economy (those fired public workers became informal drivers and what you guys would call bachaqueros), gave no shits about human rights, allowed (by direct orders or inneptitude is debatable) psicopaths to engage in state sponsored terrorism against anyone and everyone (to no effect on the intended target, the terrorists), looted (or at least allowed his family to loot) everything from international donations to the military pension funds, etc (that's just of the top of my head). In summary, don't lose hope Venezuelans, things may improve in a generation or three, once chavismo falls and their crimes are known (or Chavez loving kids may run for president and control the new and improved Congress because people remember the good old days that were just not hellscape horrible).
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 05:34
|
|
|
zocio posted:Fujimori's Pros: Its not a happy landscape by any means.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 06:23
|
|
|
my favorite part of this thread is when the white people come in to tell actual Venezuelans who have literally been homeless and eaten out of trashcans that they're a bunch of imperialist stooges because they managed to flee the country. Listen comrade, I read a lot of WSWS and Jacobin articles from my mom's basement in a 1st world nation and electing high-school dropout bus drivers to the Presidency is actually good and cool, unlike medicine and food.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 06:36
|
|
|
Sergg posted:my favorite part of this thread is when the white people come in to tell actual Venezuelans who have literally been homeless and eaten out of trashcans that they're a bunch of imperialist stooges because they managed to flee the country. Listen comrade, I read a lot of WSWS and Jacobin articles from my mom's basement in a 1st world nation and electing high-school dropout bus drivers to the Presidency is actually good and cool, unlike medicine and food. You have no idea how disappointed I was when they said not to listen to us, because we speak English. They want to debate with someone they can't understand. I mean I could bring my mother on, she can barely speak English and she's lost more than I have. I'm sure the disdain for Maduro would be the same. I'm sure it's the same thing for just about every Venezuelan I know. The position is so indefensible even tankies can't go all the way, and have to instead stick to "Maduro isn't that bad". Anyway back to the drone strike. This actually illustrates why freedom of the press is important and how much it has eroded in Venezuela. You know who I got the gas leak story from? AP. It's very hard to get accurate reporting on anything because government sources lie constantly, and the free press has to sneak around and get information without revealing themselves to the government's security apparatus. That said, there is 0 evidence behind the Soldados de Franela account having anything to do with this. They already got the story wrong. They're not associated with Oscar Pérez as some outlets claimed, they're more of a fan account. I'm also certain they wouldn't have the means that probably costed too much for any private citizen in Venezuela to afford.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 07:46
|
|
|
Here's a piece on Bellingcat on the drone attack. fnox posted:Anyway back to the drone strike. This actually illustrates why freedom of the press is important and how much it has eroded in Venezuela. You know who I got the gas leak story from? AP. It's very hard to get accurate reporting on anything because government sources lie constantly, and the free press has to sneak around and get information without revealing themselves to the government's security apparatus. Eleven journalists were arrested on Saturday while they were at the scene of Maduro's speech covering the event. The clip below shows National Guard soldiers taking some journalists' equipment while they were covering the event: https://twitter.com/AlbertoRodNews/status/1025875213072953344 fnox posted:That said, there is 0 evidence behind the Soldados de Franela account having anything to do with this. They already got the story wrong. They're not associated with Oscar Pérez as some outlets claimed, they're more of a fan account. I'm also certain they wouldn't have the means that probably costed too much for any private citizen in Venezuela to afford. Yeah, at first it seemed like maybe they were being coy about the whole thing, but I think that they weren't the ones responsible. Maybe they knew about it beforehand, but I don't think whoever runs that account or his/her group was directly responsible . It'd be interesting to find out how these "resistance accounts" on Twitter are connected to one another, and what kind of resources they're able to mobilize.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 13:36
|
|
|
Hasn't bellingcat been exposed as a propaganda outlet to support whatever bullshit the US, UK are trying to push?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 15:46
|
|
|
Corky Romanovsky posted:Hasn't bellingcat been exposed as a propaganda outlet to support whatever bullshit the US, UK are trying to push? No, but you've been exposed as a credulous rube.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 15:47
|
|
|
Corky Romanovsky posted:Hasn't bellingcat been exposed as a propaganda outlet to support whatever bullshit the US, UK are trying to push?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 15:48
|
|
|
Corky Romanovsky posted:Hasn't bellingcat been exposed as a propaganda outlet to support whatever bullshit the US, UK are trying to push? If you sincerely believe this you're uninformed enough to think Alex Jones is a serious journalist who never lies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 15:48
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure RT and friends have "exposed" Bellingcat for being nothing but a fake news propaganda mouthpiece several times this year already.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
Corky Romanovsky posted:Hasn't bellingcat been exposed as a propaganda outlet to support whatever bullshit the US, UK are trying to push? Exposed by who?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 16:13
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:I'm pretty sure RT and friends have "exposed" Bellingcat for being nothing but a fake news propaganda mouthpiece several times this year already. nice
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 16:25
|
|
|
Corky Romanovsky posted:Hasn't bellingcat been exposed as a propaganda outlet to support whatever bullshit the US, UK are trying to push? I'm going to assume that you didn't read the piece, because it sides with the government's version of events... which is exactly the kind of thing that a CIA/MI6 guerilla psy-ops would want to pump out to confuse people!
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
The main thing going against the gas tank explosion theory was the fact that those gas tanks are distributed by PDVSA and have regulated prices, thus they don't loving exist anywhere anymore. Nor would that apartment have any electricity with which to spark a flame.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
I think that what probably happened is that drone crashed and exploded outside of the kitchen, igniting the fire. The firefighters got the call, and when they showed up they saw the fire and the hole in the wall. They wouldn't have thought to check for drone bits (or there weren't any, cause the drone got blown up), so they put two and two together and thought "Blast damage + fire in kitchen = gas canister explosion".
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 17:40
|
|
|
The ferry in Guanta loving sank. https://twitter.com/dralambrito/status/1026799403967950848 There's only one boat left out of 10 that Chavez expropriated. These used to work very well, I recall traveling in one around 2008 and they were seriously top of the line. Now they're in a total state of disrepair. You can't hide the rampant corruption of Maduro's government, it's in plain sight. This is why you won't find a single Venezuelan that believes the bullshit some people have been posting, they remember life then, then they see their life now, and reach the only conclusion there is to reach: the only constant in this death spiral is Chavismo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 18:10
|
|
|
Jesus, that reminds me to check on the airlines. I see that Conviasa has lost 100% of its international routes except Havana, and Avior seems to have been banned from the European Union a few months ago, which I imagine means that the US and other countries will follow suit soon after, although for the moment it still does appear to be actually functioning. A one-way ticket from Caracas to Miami at the end of August will run you a cool 1.282 billion BsF but amazingly they seem to fly that route five days a week. Venezolana, like Conviasa, does not sell tickets for any dates on any of its theoretical routes, either national or international, but it looks even worse for Venezolana as their flights seem to be entirely fictional: for instance their flight route Caracas to Santo Domingo is theoretically AW512, but flight trackers do not show this flight having actually occurred at any time in the past 6 weeks. AW402 to Panama City seems similarly fictional. All easy to check with FlightRadar24.com. I didn't check and see whether any of Venezolana's national routes are actually functional. The data from https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/ccs are pretty astonishingly bad. I don't pay for it though, but I bet it paints a pretty apocalyptic picture if you go back in time. So it looks like Avior is the only functional airline remaining in Venezuela, but it looks like it's not far from death row. A huge number of those "scheduled" flights on FlightRadar24 are similarly fake, e.g. QL2950 for Laser Airlines' flight from Panama City to Caracas has not taken off in weeks. Many of the within-national-borders-only carriers seem to be fake as well, like Rutaca Airlines, but it's also possible that FlightRadar24 just does not get the data for planes which take off and land within Venezuela so I can't be as sure. I tried buying tickets online for a few of those companies, and except for Avior, I do not ever see any tickets for sale at any selection of dates, even dates that are "Scheduled" according to FlightRadar24. I'm also astonished that there's an Istanbul<->Caracas direct flight. That cannot possibly be a profitable route. Is there some weird historical reason that I'm totally missing, like why Cuba and Angola have direct flight links? tldr; Venezuelan airlines seem to have shut down except for Avior and a very small handful of Conviasa flights and possibly some domestic-only carriers if FlightRadar24 does not obtain information on Venezuelan domestic flights. I guess no spare parts + no skilled staff + no maintenance + no money makes it hard to run an airline. Saladman fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 7, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 19:18
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1026928696626700288
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 21:35
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Exposed by who? I'm sorry you had to find out this way. I remain incredibly tickled that a semi-prominent global journalist started as a goon. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 22:01
|
|
|
This is fascinating but I wonder if I understand it. Will someone correct me if I am wrong. So PDVSA owes Conoco Phillips money, and a ruling allows their ships/cargo to be seized if they visit certain ports. To deliver oil products to other customers, they have to use out-the-way ports, or transfer them at sea. Their own ports are in poor shape, so there is a stack-up of customer ships waiting to fill. These customers are also asked to accept offshore transfers, which are more difficult and time consuming than a spot in a dock. The customers tolerate this because, if they don't play along, they might not get anything. Follow up question: How are off-shore transfers more efficient than waiting for a spot in a dock? The ship doing the transfer must fill up somewhere, itself. e. Maybe the ships doing the transfers are really big, and they can serve many customer ships that would otherwise have to be individually maneuvered into a dock? Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 7, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2018 23:23
|
|
|
I'd forgotten about the conoco-philips thing, but I've noticed a lot of former Citgo gas stations in the northeast picking up the various conoco Philips brands - 76, Conoco, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 00:41
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1027051895217692672
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 05:41
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/sllucchese/status/1026968813609336832?s=19 He's saying that he didn't actually have anything to do with it, he just claimed to be a member of the "Resistance", which is a rather nebulous term for a bunch of different groups, going from the "shield bearers" (the kids who were blocking gunfire and gas grenades using wooden shields, during the 2017 student protests), Oscar Perez-types, religious nuts and just Twitter provocateurs. What we can know for certain right now is that Maduro will become more erratic and paranoid as a result of this. He just had Juan Requested, former UCV student leader and current deputy to the National Assembly, removed from his house by SEBIN and taken to an undisclosed location. fnox fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Aug 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 08:29
|
|
|
Did anyone watch the Cadena last night with the hollywood-style narration and soundtrack of what happened with the drones? They even played supposed radio communications between the plotters and I think the "human element" definitely played a part in the fracaso.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 15:49
|
|
|
Gozinbulx posted:Did anyone watch the Cadena last night with the hollywood-style narration and soundtrack of what happened with the drones? They even played supposed radio communications between the plotters and I think the "human element" definitely played a part in the fracaso. I didn't catch it, but from what I can tell from media reports it was classic Maduro in his prosecutor, judge and jury role. As fnox said, a National Assembly deputy was arrested last night during Maduro's speech, because he accused him live on television of being the man responsible for the drone attack. The deputy's sister was also arrested (she's a student group leader), and Diosdado Cabello warned on Twitter last night that the Constituent Assembly was going to take action against any deputy whom they believe to have been involved in the plot. In short: What's happening is what we all saw coming. Maduro's going to use this to throw lots of people in jail and crack down on the opposition, facts be dammed. Saladman posted:I'm also astonished that there's an Istanbul<->Caracas direct flight. That cannot possibly be a profitable route. Is there some weird historical reason that I'm totally missing, like why Cuba and Angola have direct flight links?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 15:56
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:Erdogan and Maduro have been buddy-buddy for years now, and it has to do with their simultaneous drives towards authoritarianism. Maduro was in Turkey recently to attend Erdogan's swearing-in ceremony, and he got a tour of the set of his favourite television show. Huh, and he even uses his visit to talk about "Palestine being the cause of the world" at 1:24 although I'm not sure what the relation is at all. I also assume he had never heard what a Palestine is before his interpreter mentioned the word to him, but he must be good at reading the queues of whether he is supposed to say something in favor of it or against it. Is there a book of talking points you can get to make dictators and communist apologists to support you? (Not to spin this as in favor of Israel either, but I can't imagine that clueless gently caress knows any more about Palestine than does your average FYAD poster.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 16:19
|
|
|
I can personally confirm that Brown Moses is a Jewish CIA agent from Saudi Arabia with dual membership in MI6 and Mossad. Russia Today did an extensive interview with his mother where it was revealed that he is part of the plot to plant false flags all over the world. He's deeply involved in the Maduro false flag. All those Venezuelan special forces who just ran away are crisis actors.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 17:21
|
|
|
Preen Dog posted:Follow up question: How are off-shore transfers more efficient than waiting for a spot in a dock? The ship doing the transfer must fill up somewhere, itself. Bigger ships, also means the paperwork/details of docking (eg: local pilots/government/rules/regulations/corruption) for foreign ships don't apply. Also you can feed multiple ships at the same time in some situations too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
Bathtub Cheese posted:As it turns out, the guy responsible for spreading the big lie that the Maduro government consists of "corrupt billionaires" is a member of an American soft power org favoring "free trade" and a foreign capitalist himself: https://www.as-coa.org/speakers/juan-carlos-zapata I just want to return to this post because of just how braindead it is. I have literally never heard of this person in my life, probably because he's loving Guatemalan and seems to have absolutely nothing to do with Venezuela. Maybe he actually meant this Juan Carlos Zapata but that guy hasn't been relevant since the 90's, and even then he wasn't very big. Maybe he actually meant Rodriguez Zapatero but that's even more absurd because he's on Maduro's side. This is the calibre of research and fact-checking that you can expect from anyone who, after 20 years of Chavismo, still stands for it and supports Maduro. This is how much of an absurd conspiracy theorist you have to be to not believe that Maduro and his cronies are corrupt. I'll even let the "not true socialism" comments slide but for fucks sake at the very least accept the overwhelming truth that is that anybody with power in Venezuela is absolutely corrupt and completely loving useless. Maduro and his administration are literally the people you hate, the people who amass all the capital and starve the poor, who didn't work a single loving day in their life, who stole from grandmas and children to buy yachts and planes, who silence the press, who persecute students and dissidents, who made millions into refugees. Everything you hate about America and it's leaders, this guy stands for. If all it takes for you to support him is his word that he's on your side, that just means you're nothing but a loving tool. America may be bad, but this guy is worse than you can ever imagine. You are witnessing one of the greatest tragedies in this side of the continent play out in real time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 18:23
|
|
|
it’s funny how Maduro is both an incompetent imbecile bus driver and also a lazy slob who never worked a day in his life. Perhaps we need some more top men from the university of Chicago to run things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
He had a job 30 years ago, he can't possibly be corrupt! His kids and nieces buy planes with the money from his Metrocaracas pension.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 18:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 14:23 |
|
|
CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:it’s funny how Maduro is both an incompetent imbecile bus driver and also a lazy slob who never worked a day in his life. Perhaps we need some more top men from the university of Chicago to run things. People with working class backgrounds can absolutely be corrupt. The vast majority of people criticizing Maduro have no issue with his background
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2018 18:50
|
|
