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I think Stormlight has problems that have grown with each book. By the third book, none of the characters are situations of inherent peril. There's a sharp reduction in words devoted to describing the environments and sensory details that made the first two pop. The world/plane of spren doesn't lend itself to interesting descriptions. The twist was cool, though.
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Aug 7, 2018 21:30
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I was struck by how little I cared about (big spoiler dont look) Elkohar's death
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Aug 7, 2018 22:33
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mewse posted:I was struck by how little I cared about (big spoiler dont look) Elkohar's death  I was mostly just “huh”.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:42
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Conversely, Dalinar's flashbacks are a lot more interesting than Kaladin's and Shallan's.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:46
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Torrannor posted:Conversely, Dalinar's flashbacks are a lot more interesting than Kaladin's and Shallan's.  A lot of people complained that the third book was boring, but I thought those flashbacks were great. I have a soft spot for Kaladin, but seeing Dalinar's arc become so strong and interesting was a surprise, and definitely made him one of my favorite characters, and I already really liked him before we learned his backstory. I actually think the weakest part of the third book was all the time in the [spoiler]spren world[/i]. It didn't feel fleshed out or interesting at all. I can definitely see the dislike of "power creep", but I don't think it was something the held the books back. Sanderson will have to play it carefully as it keeps going though, because it could definitely remove a lot of tension and interest.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:53
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Yeah, I think this will get more complicated now that the Desolation is being kicked into high gear and the Fused are becoming more of a thing. Radiants are powerful in their immediate vicinity, but they don't have the numbers to halt armies or defend/take large areas of ground. Odium misread Dalinar and so the pivotal point of his Thaylen City assault tilted away from him; even still he probably could have carried the day if reinforcements didn't Oathgate in when they did. The trick with having a near-god as the big bad is going to be writing him going forward without duplicating this scenario of "critical failure at just the right time" or it'll look formulaic.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:47
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ConfusedUs posted:Stormlight is basically western High Fantasy viewed through an anime lens...so yeah. Spot on. imo, its anime viewed through a western high fantasy lens
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Aug 7, 2018 23:51
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Shallan's love triangle was 100% the worst part of Oathbringer. As far as Elhokhar goes, when he started saying the words I was like, "gently caress YEA" and then Moash did Moash things and I was like, "Oh gently caress" but I was over it quickly. It was more of Kaladin's reaction to it all that bothered me Dalinar's back story was way better than I expected it to be. Not to return to WoT talk but reading that series just makes me want more Stormlight so hard.
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Aug 8, 2018 00:59
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Jimmy Noskill posted:I've never read a Sanderson book before, but I just finished reading the 3.5 books of the Stormlight Archives on my wife's recommendation. I absolutely adored the first book, but my opinion dropped a bit as the series progressed. I thought the characters and world-building were amazing, but I was disappointed in the continually escalating "power levels." I liked the political maneuverings and the troubles of the more-or-less normal protagonists in the first book-and-a-half, but I didn't like how many of the characters essentially turned into superheroes. The climaxes of books two and three felt like reading a novelization of an episode of Dragonball Z. I still enjoyed it overall, but I'm a bit let down by the direction it took. I'll break down his cosmere books for you: Elantris/Emperor's Soul - Power level much less than Stormlight. There are no DBZ style fights in these. Mistborn Series - Power level is much higher than current Stormlight characters. DBZ style fights galore but they are usually ended cleverly. Wax and Wayne Series - Power level reduced from Mistborn, but add guns Warbreaker - Weakest power level of all the Cosmere books because of how the 'breaths' system works, but it can scale to ridiculous amounts. The fights in this book are not very DBZ like IMO. This is the most interesting magic system IMO besides Emperor's Soul. Other short stories - Generally much less powerful than Stormlight except the DBZ Sand one. I don't think any of the antagonists are mustachioed supervillians as you describe though.
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Aug 8, 2018 01:57
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I’m not sure any of y’all have seen DBZ because the fights are nothing alike really. From a choreograph level or a power level.
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Aug 8, 2018 02:51
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insider posted:I'll break down his cosmere books for you: The end of Elantris had them tossing around power blasts and/or crazy martial arts, but otherwise, yeah, pretty weak for most of the book.
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Aug 8, 2018 03:03
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OAquinas posted:The end of Elantris had them tossing around power blasts and/or crazy martial arts, but otherwise, yeah, pretty weak for most of the book. Yea I guess I kind of remember that. I mostly remember them using it to teleport around, but that is literally the last 1% of the book.
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Aug 8, 2018 04:46
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CharlestheHammer posted:I’m not sure any of y’all have seen DBZ because the fights are nothing alike really. From a choreograph level or a power level. I grew up watching DBZ and I would say Sanderson fight scenes are not DBZ-like, simply because there is actually action happening, instead of two characters talking at each other for like 10 episodes before someone so much as makes a move to attack. insider posted:I'll break down his cosmere books for you: Accurate! Now, if you get into his unpublished stuff, how would you describe Aether of Night? insider posted:I don't think any of the antagonists are mustachioed supervillians as you describe though. Miles Hundredlives in Wax and Wayne is probably the closest you get to this. Sab669 posted:As far as Elhokhar goes, when he started saying the words I was like, "gently caress YEA" and then Moash did Moash things and I was like, "Oh gently caress" but I was over it quickly. It was more of Kaladin's reaction to it all that bothered me Was I the only one who had a big emotional reaction to this? I actually sniffled and had to put the book down for fear of tears.  BananaNutkins posted:I think Stormlight has problems that have grown with each book. I'm actually kind of glad that they weren't in inherent peril - there was an awful lot of that in Words of Radiance and I liked that Oathbringer was exploring the aftermath of that. It's book 3 of the first 5 which make a complete arc, so I'm fully expecting a lot of inherent peril in books 4 and 5. Sab669 posted:Shallan's love triangle was 100% the worst part of Oathbringer. I would suggest not lurking the 17th shard discussion board. I honestly thought the whole thing was resolved by the end of Oathbringer but diehard Shalladin fans have a pet theory it's not over. At least the discussion is now quarantined in a single thread that I can avoid.
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Aug 8, 2018 04:54
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Leng posted:Accurate! Now, if you get into his unpublished stuff, how would you describe Aether of Night? The titular Aether of Night aside, the conventional aethers are pretty so-so cosmere power level wise.
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Aug 8, 2018 08:03
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Torrannor posted:I mean Mistborn 1 has the Lord Ruler as an antagonist, who would wipe the floor with every single Stormlight Archive human. Probably every other human in the Cosmere, period. I still think Susebron could wipe the floor with the Lord Ruler. Hard to compete with the guy who can make every loving thing try to kill you all at the same time with a thought.
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Aug 8, 2018 08:09
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 Egwene is literally Hitler
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Aug 8, 2018 08:15
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rndmnmbr posted:I still think Susebron could wipe the floor with the Lord Ruler. Hard to compete with the guy who can make every loving thing try to kill you all at the same time with a thought. Just organics, though. I feel like the lord ruler could just compound the one that stores temperature until he incinerates all organic matter within a twenty foot radius.
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Aug 8, 2018 08:17
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Thanks for the input, everyone. I'm much more into stories about the heroism of ordinary men and women than stories of demigods kicking rear end. Book 1 Kaladin desperately trying to keep his bridge crew alive from day to day while stuck in a system that's intentionally trying to get them killed was much more compelling to me than Super Saiyan Kaladin and his sidekicks flying around churning through mooks. I think that Sanderson just isn't my cup of tea.
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Aug 8, 2018 12:48
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Jimmy Noskill posted:Thanks for the input, everyone. I'm much more into stories about the heroism of ordinary men and women than stories of demigods kicking rear end. Book 1 Kaladin desperately trying to keep his bridge crew alive from day to day while stuck in a system that's intentionally trying to get them killed was much more compelling to me than Super Saiyan Kaladin and his sidekicks flying around churning through mooks. I think that Sanderson just isn't my cup of tea. Well, you could try the first Mistborn book. The central protagonists are plenty powerful, but their opponents even more so in a way. It has way less of a DBZ feel to them, imho. It's 5 bucks well spent, I think. If you don't like it, then it's proof that Sanderson isn't for you.
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Aug 8, 2018 13:19
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Torrannor posted:I mean Mistborn 1 has the Lord Ruler as an antagonist, who would wipe the floor with every single Stormlight Archive human. Probably every other human in the Cosmere, period. Susebron is definitely the equal, or more, of the Lord Ruler. Hoid could likely beat the Lord Ruler and Susebron at the same time because of what he has access to. In Oathbringer the power Dalinar taps in to with his Third Ideal is on a much higher level than the Lord Ruler's power and I'd put the Heralds on the Lord Ruler's level as well. Or some of them, anyways. For that matter, without atium I'd be iffy on the Lord Ruler being able to take on some Radiants (especially of the 4-5th ideal) given the potency of shardblades and shardplate. Especially a shardblade being used by someone who can move at high speed to keep up with him burning any speed he's stored.
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Aug 8, 2018 13:42
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Do we know if Shardnouns can be affected by Allomancy? I think that would be the deciding factor. I'm guessing they can't be pushed / pulled on but I don't know. Also the "arena" would play a considerable factor. If they are out in an open field with little metal to interact with beyond the coins The Lord Ruler might bring, then good luck.
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Aug 8, 2018 13:54
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Sab669 posted:Do we know if Shardnouns can be affected by Allomancy? I think that would be the deciding factor. Shardnouns can't be affected by Allomancy. Yet I'm not seeing it. What Dalinar did at the end of Oathbringer was very impressive, yet it's direct combat application was limited. But let's just assume that the Lord Ruler has enough metal and Dalinar enough Stormlight. What's he gonna do? Use Adhesion? To stick stuff together? There's a reason that Kaladin mostly uses Gravitation, at least offensively. Use Tension? It apparently has combat applications for Stonewards, but not for Bondsmiths. Use his mastery of Shardbla... oops, no Shardblade for Dalinar. He doesn't even own a Shardplate currently! Dalinar is my favorite Stormlight character, but he wouldn't stand a chance against the Lord Ruler in combat right now. As for Hoid, it seems as if he can't hurt living beings/persons. Conversely, he was unafraid of Jasnah's Sharblade, there could be a connection here. I'm willing to put down the Lord Ruler vs. the Author's Pet as a draw. Apart from that, who stands up to TLR? How fast do you go if you compound speed, do you get withing appreciable fractions of c? Keep in mind that tapping Speed also speeds up your thoughts. What do you do against a person that moves with 1% of the speed of light, can see into the future and has superhuman strength? And that doesn't begin to cover all his abilities. Please enlighten me how Susebron could beat TLR.
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Aug 8, 2018 14:18
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Evil Fluffy posted:Susebron is definitely the equal, or more, of the Lord Ruler. Hoid could likely beat the Lord Ruler and Susebron at the same time because of what he has access to. The Lord Ruler was the most powerful guy at two separate shards' magic systems (plus whatever the hell feruchemy is) who at times held so much power he moved the orbits of planets and terraformed them. Susebron is a cool dude and all but his powers are like 'intuitively awaken objects' and such - the better question is probably what Vasher was able to do when he held all those breaths, since Awakening is still kind of mysterious and not that fleshed out. Plus there's lots of discussion about how much research and study is necessary to effectively use it, and the implication was Vasher and his friends were the most powerful in part because they basically were the best scientists at it. (also awakening is just different, since its constant benefits from doing nothing are incredible, but gaining and spending the power is incredibly expensive in comparison to other systems which is probably why Vasher figuring out how to use stormlight to power it is going to be a Big Deal But yeah shardblades generally make the 'who would win?' questions pretty useless between magic systems eke out fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 15:09
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I don’t think the lord ruler can be beaten unless you can do what Vin did - remove or somehow drain his metal minds - with gold compounding he is practically immortal, while say Susebron is still just a dude once all is said and done.Torrannor posted:Shardnouns can't be affected by Allomancy. Theoretically you could - just really hard, again kind of like how Vin pushed on lr’s metalminds but needed to draw on the mist to do it. Avalerion fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 17:28
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Yep, I assume that TLR would be immune to shard blades because he can compound to get ridiculous amounts of investiture, which can prevent his body from being severed from his mind/soul (not that you'd be able to hit him with one anyway with tin, pewter, and feru speed, let alone atium). I could be wrong but it seems like if you can expend investiture (stormlight) to heal shard blade and physical wounds, having nearly infinite investiture means you're pretty much not going to have to worry about them. Susebron would likely be immune to a OHKO from a shard blade as well - probably would take a lot of hits to make him expend enough breaths to die. Edit: there's probably some WOB about this, feel free to point it out if you know of it - this kind of speculation and Sanderson's interest in indulging it is one of my favorite parts about his work. aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 19:25
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aparmenideanmonad posted:Yep, I assume that TLR would be immune to shard blades because he can compound to get ridiculous amounts of investiture, which can prevent his body from being severed from his mind/soul (not that you'd be able to hit him with one anyway with tin, pewter, and feru speed, let alone atium). I could be wrong but it seems like if you can expend investiture (stormlight) to heal shard blade and physical wounds, having nearly infinite investiture means you're pretty much not going to have to worry about them. Susebron would likely be immune to a OHKO from a shard blade as well - probably would take a lot of hits to make him expend enough breaths to die. i don't see anything on coppermind but yeah considering what we saw Miles do in terms of healing, and that we know stormlight alone's much less powerful healing can heal shardblade wounds, that seems very reasonable
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Aug 8, 2018 20:06
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Torrannor posted:Shardnouns can't be affected by Allomancy. Torrannor posted:Apart from that, who stands up to TLR? How fast do you go if you compound speed, do you get withing appreciable fractions of c? Keep in mind that tapping Speed also speeds up your thoughts. What do you do against a person that moves with 1% of the speed of light, can see into the future and has superhuman strength? And that doesn't begin to cover all his abilities. In regards to the spoiler, this answer comes from some of the signings and conventions. There is an upper limit at which it breaks down, so getting a person to an appreciable fraction of c isn't really obtainable. He hasn't put hard limits on it yet that are public, but several times he's said that while the magic helps protect the body there is only so much it can do. It's like when they Pewter drag, there is a point where the body physically fails even if the magic could keep working.
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Aug 8, 2018 21:35
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Magic systems are for nerds. Miss me with that poo poo and just write a drat book!
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Aug 9, 2018 00:48
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Sab669 posted:Do we know if Shardnouns can be affected by Allomancy? I think that would be the deciding factor. They aren't made of metal* so I'm not sure how Allomancy would affect them. Push/pull should have no effect on them just like they wouldn't work on a piece of wood or a glass bottle. * we're talking about radiants so no pommel attachment to hold a gemstone for binding or anything extra like that would exist and while we know the non-metal origins of shardblades, it seems pretty like that shardplate is some combination of a spren and solidified stormlight, since shardplate is repaired or 'regenerated' by feeding stormlight to it directly. The only metal that comes up is the framing that holds gemstones to power the plate, because the people using it aren't radiants. The actual shardplate of a radiant isn't going to contain any metal just like the shardblade of a radiant doesn't hold any. eke out posted:The Lord Ruler was the most powerful guy at two separate shards' magic systems (plus whatever the hell feruchemy is) who at times held so much power he moved the orbits of planets and terraformed them. Susebron is a cool dude and all but his powers are like 'intuitively awaken objects' and such - the better question is probably what Vasher was able to do when he held all those breaths, since Awakening is still kind of mysterious and not that fleshed out. Plus there's lots of discussion about how much research and study is necessary to effectively use it, and the implication was Vasher and his friends were the most powerful in part because they basically were the best scientists at it. He doesn't normally hold that much power or insight. The incident you're talking about was a temporary channeling of a one of the 16 Shards' power. As powerful as compounding is it still requires use of stored power as well as metal availability. If someone is Awakened enough to affect metal and they drain the color from metal a person is carrying and hasn't consumed yet, that may very well render those metals inert for allomantic use. With compounding you can probably still heal the damage due it being Investiture-based and not just pure physical regeneration but if you're you're cut/stabbed in the heart or head with a shardblade you're probably still screwed because that is instantaneous death. Or maybe you can survive if you're actively compounding at the time and the shardblade is removed quick enough. God help TLR against a 5th ideal Jasnah tbh.
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Aug 9, 2018 01:11
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Compounded Steel is enough to go supersonic (we see in BoM), so the boring answer is that a serious lord ruler just kinda bullet times his way through whoever you throw at him, and they just aren't fast enough to react meaningfully
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Aug 9, 2018 01:16
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That was just a huge quantity of stored feruchemical speed, but I’m sure compounding was used to generate and store that much to begin with. In Bands of Mourning Marasai was at ~75x speed. With access to compounding you could likely maintain that or even a little faster indefinitely. I’m curious where Brandon eventually sets the upper limit on Harmony powered speed. E; for reference even 15x speed would be enough to break the sound barrier on something like an arm jerk, as low as 10x for a baseball pitch. M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 9, 2018 |
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Aug 9, 2018 04:00
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Evil Fluffy posted:They aren't made of metal* so I'm not sure how Allomancy would affect them. Push/pull should have no effect on them just like they wouldn't work on a piece of wood or a glass bottle. Sharblades at least are definitely metal. Wyndle explicitly says in Edgedancer that spren need not manifest as sharblades (hence Lift's shardrod and shardfork), but they MUST manifest as a form of metal. Edgedancer posted:“So you don’t hafta be a sword,” Lift said. She sat on the Stump’s dresser, ’cuz the woman didn’t have a proper desk for her to claim.
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Aug 9, 2018 05:41
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Sanderson answered that as well, shards are metal(ish) same as say attium. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/60587-can-allomancers-pullpush-on-shardplateblade/
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Aug 9, 2018 06:46
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Also in BoM Wax has a moment with Harmony where he's see that men, metals, investiture, it's all the same.Jimmy Noskill posted:Thanks for the input, everyone. I'm much more into stories about the heroism of ordinary men and women than stories of demigods kicking rear end. Book 1 Kaladin desperately trying to keep his bridge crew alive from day to day while stuck in a system that's intentionally trying to get them killed was much more compelling to me than Super Saiyan Kaladin and his sidekicks flying around churning through mooks. I think that Sanderson just isn't my cup of tea. I don't think it's Sanderson specific. It's a common trope of the fantasy genre that you have protagonists who start out pretty much as an "ordinary" person and then by the end of the series ends up super powerful as a result of powers/artefacts/other things they gain along their journey. Not every fantasy story is like this but there are a lot that fall into this category.
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Aug 12, 2018 02:02
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Sanderson always goes the power fantasy route, to the point that his characters lose their individuality because they become totally unrelatable and he kills them off or he puts them in background because too much power.
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Aug 13, 2018 00:46
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I just finished Hero of Ages. Overall, I thoroughly enjoyed the series. The buildup and reveal of both the story and the world was impressive, the detailed plan laid out for all 3 books, with very subtle hints of what was really going on through the whole thing. I enjoy how well Sanderson expands the scope of a story and a world as it progresses, as seen in both the Mistborn books and the Stormlight books. From the slow expanding of understanding what the Lord Ruler was, how he got his powers, what his agenda was, through to his death. Then the even slower but IMO more interesting reveal of the powers of Preservation and Ruin, the understanding of the real motivations and (partially subverted) goals of the Lord Ruler, slowly turning your image of him as a cruel tyrant into an altruist who was corrupted while trying to save the world.. There were definitely some stumbles along the way, however. In book 2, the story started out strong - I actually thought that, overall, the love story between [spoilers]Elend and Vin[/spoiler] was quite touching, but Sanderson laid it on a little too thick and too repeatedly about how much TRUST they have and how DEEP their love ran. Thankfully, I think based on my reading of TSA that he did learn from this and get better. But the real problem was the horrifically weak love-triangle between Vin and Zane. Ultimately, it lead to some important character developments, but I thought the execution was extremely cringy and out-of-line with who Vin was as a character. It would have been much more effective if Zane had just become a trusted friend and ally, much like the rest of the crew, rather than a love interest.. Luckily, that part of book didn't last too terribly long. Overall, I'd say book 2 was just okay. You started to get an understanding of Ruin, and a tiny bit of Preservation but ultimately I don't feel that this book carried the story very far. It was longer and more plodding than necessary and had very few really strong moments unlike books 1 and 3. I actually think the most important part about this book is getting to know Tensoon. Book 3 was much better. The situation was dire, there was a lot of tension and mystery and discovery. This was the book where you really started to realize the the Lord Ruler was actually not evil, but was trying to save humanity, and what those efforts looked like. An understanding of what Ruin is and how he twisted the Lord Rulers plans is a big part of this.. My biggest complaints about this book are that too much was revealed in the between-chapter snippets. Once I reached the end of the book those obviously started to make a lot more sense once I understood that it was Sazed's post-hoc explanations after having obtained both powers., but getting those infodumps outside of story developments often made them a lot less impactful, IMO, especially because some of the reveals were huge. My other complaint was... a fair bit of deus ex machina. The heroes were too often in situations where they should die based on everything you know, then suddenly you learn something else and the character lives! Sometimes this was satisfying, but to me it just had the effect of removing tension, because it happened enough times that I ceased worrying about the main characters entering dire situations. Still, I definitely enjoyed it. The characters were good, the world-building was exquisite as always, the story was engaging and the conclusion bittersweet and satisfying. I'm excited to see what comes next! Should I just right into the next Mistborn series? I know there's a time jump, and I know it's incomplete, so I'm not sure if I should read something else first.
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Aug 14, 2018 23:01
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Taffer posted:Still, I definitely enjoyed it. The characters were good, the world-building was exquisite as always, the story was engaging and the conclusion bittersweet and satisfying. I'm excited to see what comes next! Should I just right into the next Mistborn series? I know there's a time jump, and I know it's incomplete, so I'm not sure if I should read something else first. yeah since it looks like you've already read stormlight, moving directly on to the next mistborn books is probably the best idea, then secret history
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Aug 14, 2018 23:16
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Definitely go read Alloy of Law next while you're in Mistborn mode. If you like it, read the rest of the Wax and Wayne books currently out and then check out Secret History. EFB
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Aug 14, 2018 23:18
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Just throwing this out there: algai'd'siswai might be the worst term I've ever encountered. It bothers me on an irrational level while I try and read this series. Jordan needs to lay off the apostrophes. Edit; to keep it on the Sanderson talk, someone posted this from Way of Kings on reddit:  I noticed that when I reread WoK prior to Oathbringer, but now that OB is out there is discussion as to whether this was simply foreshadowing, or if the armor appeared glowing, or if he is in fact glowing. Thoughts? Sab669 fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 16:55
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Sab669 posted:Just throwing this out there: algai'd'siswai might be the worst term I've ever encountered. He was protecting someone who couldn't protect themselves. In the end of WoR he says the second oath to the Stormfather, so he was already at the first ideal and could draw in stormlight. Plus he started researching the radiants after his brother was murdered, so he's certain to have said the words for the first ideal at some point in the past. It's possible he had been at the first ideal ever since the visions started.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:44
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