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The group stealth rules will let you sneak pretty reliably if you've got a party composition where the number of people who are really bad at sneaking is less than or equal to the number of people who are really good at sneaking. If you have a Fighter on 8 dex in full plate that doesn't matter if you have a Rogue with 20 dex and expertise and vice versa, as they will effectively cancel out. You get one free slot for a brick shithouse and the actual success or failure is pretty much down to the average sneakiness of the rest of your party. It's good! Where it starts to break down is if you want to be extra sneaky, either because it's extra important your sneaky party succeeds or because your otherwise not sneaky party really needs to sneak. You're looking at either a caster blowing an I Win point to allow the group to ignore the challenge entirely (Verbal component: the rest of the party shouting "Hooray for the wizard!") or you're asking the plate armour fighter to turn off one of her class features to avoid being quite so much of a burden. One of these makes you, the player, feel cool. The other, not so much. good idea in isolation -> rest of 5e mechanics -> garbage fire Splicer fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Aug 9, 2018 |
# ? Aug 9, 2018 09:13 |
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# ? May 31, 2024 14:25 |
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There is no "surprise round" in 5e. Rather, if everyone passes their Stealth check versus the passive Perception scores of the enemies, then the enemies cannot take any actions during the first round of combat, and they can only take Reactions after the round has passed their initiative count. In effect, "Round 1" becomes the Surprise round, as opposed to 3e/4e, where there was a "Surprise round" that was separate-and-apart from "Round 1" and came before it. Now, if even just one person fails their Stealth check, then the enemies are not Surprised, and act normally, but everyone who did pass their Stealth check still starts the combat as Hidden. This can create a scenario where the Fighter fails the Stealth check, and so enemies will act normally in Round 1, but the Rogue did pass their Stealth check, and so is Hidden, and thus the enemies cannot target the Rogue until they reveal themselves.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 10:22 |
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My current group loves being sneaky, so I'm giving the Fighter/Rogue hybrid a quest to build armor that is half plate but stealthy. No-one else in the party wears armor.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 13:28 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:There is no "surprise round" in 5e. Rather, if everyone passes their Stealth check versus the passive Perception scores of the enemies, then the enemies cannot take any actions during the first round of combat, and they can only take Reactions after the round has passed their initiative count. Note: this is why Assassin rogue is an awful subclass RAW. You will effectively never get to do your crazy auto-crit attacks unless you are solo. And if you are solo, you will probably die before the party can save you. An all-sneaky party might fix this, but even then, all it takes is one bad roll and poof goes your primary subclass feature!
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 13:43 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:There is no "surprise round" in 5e. Rather, if everyone passes their Stealth check versus the passive Perception scores of the enemies, then the enemies cannot take any actions during the first round of combat, and they can only take Reactions after the round has passed their initiative count. Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Aug 9, 2018 |
# ? Aug 9, 2018 13:46 |
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Nephzinho posted:My current group loves being sneaky, so I'm giving the Fighter/Rogue hybrid a quest to build armor that is half plate but stealthy. No-one else in the party wears armor. Are they building Mithral Armor?
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 15:10 |
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I mean breastplates exist but I'm fully on board with players innovating like that.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 15:14 |
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Hey so, joining a new group and will be playing a Glamour Bard. I really like the ability to reposition the team with my inspiration and the Daily bonus commands seems like a lot of fun. Anywho, I'm torn between four options insofar as my race and wondered what would be optimal (any of the four work for me w/ regards to character concept/rp stuff) They are: Variant Human w/ Inspiring Leader Variant Human w/ Warcaster Glaysa Tiefling Winged Tiefling They all seem really fun, but flight seems awesome, the extra spells seems awesome, and the feats seem awesome. The Glaysa Tiefling ends up with the best stats and good abilities, but flight is awesome. So....anyone care to weigh in, or is there no real benefit to be gained going one way or another. Also I know from a charop perspective half-elves are the best............I just really have a hatred of being an elf or half elf as a role player. Oh and if it helps I know my party will have a Rogue, a Cleric, a Paladin, and a Fighter as the other characters
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 16:16 |
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Half-Elf using the Sun/High Elf Variant from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide to pick up Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade is always solid. +2 Cha and +1 Dex/Con can yield a pretty strong starting array, too.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 16:17 |
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Reik posted:Half-Elf using the Sun/High Elf Variant from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide to pick up Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade is always solid. +2 Cha and +1 Dex/Con can yield a pretty strong starting array, too. Yeah......I know Half-Elf is best, I just really dislike being an elf or half-elf. I really like the idea of being some variety of tiefling or variant human, so do you have any advice within that framework?
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 16:20 |
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Madmarker posted:Yeah......I know Half-Elf is best, I just really dislike being an elf or half-elf. I really like the idea of being some variety of tiefling or variant human, so do you have any advice within that framework? Oh sorry, didn't know you were avoiding Half-Elf. Variant Human with Magic Initiate could kinda do the same thing but also yield you a single sorcerer or warlock first level spell. A once per day Shield might not be bad? I play a Valor Bard, and there is nothing better than tagging a guy with Dissonant Whispers while in melee and taking my Opportunity Attack with Booming Blade (picked up Warcaster at 4). Reik fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Aug 9, 2018 |
# ? Aug 9, 2018 16:23 |
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Reik posted:Oh sorry, didn't know you were avoiding Half-Elf. Would I still want one of the SCAG cantrips if I am going Glamour Bard?
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 16:28 |
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Madmarker posted:Would I still want one of the SCAG cantrips if I am going Glamour Bard? The SCAG cantrips are really good, and with a decent Dex and a Rapier you will still be effective in melee. Booming Blade's scaling is especially good if you can get them to trigger the additional thunder damage. At level 5 you're looking at 2d8+Dex on hit with 2d8 thunder if they willingly move.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 16:30 |
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Reik posted:Are they building Mithral Armor? Glagha posted:I mean breastplates exist but I'm fully on board with players innovating like that. Yeah Mithral Half-Plate. I basically called it that they could make a Mithral Half Plate with the maount of refined Mithral they have, they don't have nearly enough for any heavy armor. The half plate will not have disadvantage on stealth checks, but it will have to be worn over clothes. It also won't be +1 unless they find a way to imbue it with additional resilience during the forging process (will be an optional expansion of a mission or something).
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 16:31 |
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I took Stealth on my Heavily Armoured Fighter and everyone at my table said "why though?" Eventually, after going from 5-11 never using it, it came into play hard when we were captured (by a bullshit tuned SKT fight but I'm not getting into it again). So stealthing around was our only option. It became the Rogue, an homebrew ninja thing based on some 4e class the DM ok'd (and seems balanced enough to me) and me murdering a bunch of lovely barbarians in their beds. With my +6 stealth, and them all asleep so disadvantage to passive perception, it was literally impossible to gently caress up because we don't play the homebrew rule of crits/crit fails on skill checks. After this we found a giant flag that allows you to insert the wind rune into armour granting you +5' of movement and no disadvantage to stealth checks in heavy armour. Everyone agreed I should have it and I threw it into my +2 platemail (which yeah RAW you can't do but DM said its a dumb rule and I agree). Anyway, the point of my meandering tale is that stealth is a good skill and if your players want to optimize by being only the very, very best at skills then that's fine. But at the same time if they aren't choosing skills they're just be "good not great at" you don't need to cater to that and they need to figure out ways to compensate for that. My rolled a STR fighter. I took stealth and perception proficiency knowing I won't raise either of those stats and so I won't be great at either. But you bet your rear end I'm glad I took those useful skills I'm just "good" at.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 19:57 |
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I played a 4e game where my character had that warlock move Assassin's Ground or whatever. I got it at 11. Completely shuts down concealment, teleportation, shifting, etc. And the first time I used it was something dumb like level 17, where it completely crushed a solo that relied on those. I used that move like 3 times total. Having a trick in your pocket for real-time months before it kicks in rules, I'm glad that stealth thing worked out for you.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 20:18 |
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For the campaign that I was asking for caster munchkins on, aftet talking to the DM, my guy is going to be a spy (ala diplomat style) for an information broker. I'm thinking noble background, variant human, and possibly lore bard. Anyone have suggestions for a fun, thematic feat to pair with that? I've made no other decisions on this guy, nor am I locked into bard yet. Is there any good caster/melee multiclasses? Like maybe Rogue x/Bard y?
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 20:21 |
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Perception, Investigation, Insight, Athletics/Acrobatics, and Stealth are the most commonly rolled skills in the game, so taking them even if your attributes aren't tuned to them is optimization 101. Madmarker posted:Hey so, joining a new group and will be playing a Glamour Bard. I really like the ability to reposition the team with my inspiration and the Daily bonus commands seems like a lot of fun. Anywho, I'm torn between four options insofar as my race and wondered what would be optimal (any of the four work for me w/ regards to character concept/rp stuff) If you went Variant Human I'd recommend Resilient (Constitution) over War Caster, since it's as good (and better when you get to level 9) but more generally useful since it applies to all saves rather than just concentration. And if you're allowed races with a fly speed, that's definitely better than the half-elf traits, and most everything else really - the level of narrative power at-will flight grants you is immense, not to mention the practical combat applications. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 9, 2018 |
# ? Aug 9, 2018 20:59 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:Perception, Investigation, Insight, Athletics/Acrobatics, and Stealth are the most commonly rolled skills in the game, so taking them even if your attributes aren't tuned to them is optimization 101. Insight is? And Acrobatics definitely seems like it's pretty lovely compared to athletics unless you have a DM that lets you use them interchangeably. Which seems kind of crap because no DM seems to be that loosey-goosey with arcana, or nature and history. Regardless, the point I was trying to make is that if your group is only picking skills they are going to be great at, that's fine. But at the same time if everyone is garbage at stealth nothing needs to change on the DMs part. Honestly chain shirts are loving cheap, they weigh nothing and can be thrown in a backpack so they easily negate disadvantage on stealth checks without too much of an AC hit. Breastplates aren't crazy expensive either when you've been adventuring for a few levels. The whole "whoa 3/5ths need to pass that is crazy!" It's not really, it is essential a 4e group skill check that lets stealthy people carry lovely stealth characters. The other option is roll stealth and everyone under is noticed and everyone above is not, so then you have a lovely, complex fight to work out and the plan is basically guaranteed to fail.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 21:26 |
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It is, yeah, since it's the "is this NPC lying to me" skill, so it's gonna come up in group social situations as - if not more - often than Persuasion/Intimidation (which is a good skill to have, but you only need 1 person to have it). And you're right on Athletics vs Acrobatics, and that's how it works in practice. Personally I only skip Stealth if I really can't afford it for the sake of the concept, just because of how common a check it is.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 21:38 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:It is, yeah, since it's the "is this NPC lying to me" skill, so it's gonna come up in group social situations as - if not more - often than Persuasion/Intimidation (which is a good skill to have, but you only need 1 person to have it). DEX characters are already loving falling over themselves in great abilities. The one bone STR characters finally got tossed was a pretty clear and nice definition of athletics vs acrobatics (with acrobatics being: do you fall over while balancing or doing flips and mostly unnecessary poo poo). Letting people us acrobatics instead of athletics is pretty garbage considering they're already great at stealth, slight of hand and picking locks. Plus you have initiative and AC bonuses with DEX. Also you bring up another reason to be proficient in something you aren't great at: giving somebody better than you advantage on their rolls. Yeah maybe your 10 INT Paladin isn't a great investigator on his own, but he can give that 20 INT wizard an advantage nudge and say "what's this man?" I find if the DM plays the lesser person actively helping by describing it then players are more motivated to pick skills to help others get advantage on rolls. The previous example of using the wizard to roll but them working together is way better than "yeah Paladin gives you advantage so the wizard just spots stuff." Former makes the Paladin feel useful, both mechanically and narratively.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 22:03 |
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Oh lol I forgot heavy armour would be a disadvantage on stealth rolls. Yeah take that poo poo off goddamn
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:04 |
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Okay time for some homebrewing, some of these ideas I had a week or so ago but never put down "pen to paper" but am now trying to get down. Some I just thought of today for one reason or another. So an attempt at reimagining the Force Missile Mage from 3.5, basically giving up higher level spellcasting for an at will Magic Missile, a better Mage Armor that doesn't rely on Dexterity and scales with level, and eventually Shield. I still feel like I need a bit more to flesh out some of the higher level abilities. quote:School of the Force Missile Mage And here we have another attempt at something similar, this time for Sorcerer and more as a Font for Force. quote:Force Bloodline A few other ideas I want to work on are a anti magic class, kind of like the Forsaker but hopefully not garbage. That is self sufficient but cannot have spells cast on them, or probably even use magic items. This will require some work so I want to get these ones up first. The other that may take some work is either an archetype or class that is about life leech, basically healing as they damage their target.
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:18 |
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I like fighting so I don't mind skipping stealth. The skill I love instead for no good reason is Insight. "Can I roll insight to see if I think I could take him?"
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:22 |
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anytime we're about to do something really stupid our dm makes us roll an insight check
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# ? Aug 9, 2018 23:51 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Penny Arcade's Acquisitions Inc was the Critical Role of its day, and every version of D&D has always been the most popular its ever been relative to the previous one. Huh, turns out that a one-shot(?) that I'll be playing on Monday is apparently Acquisitions Inc-themed. Is there anything I need to know about it in advance?
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 01:52 |
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Pollyanna posted:Huh, turns out that a one-shot(?) that I'll be playing on Monday is apparently Acquisitions Inc-themed. Is there anything I need to know about it in advance? Yeah, it's a long one-shot. Bring food. But you don't need to know anything about the group itself; the gist is your party is subcontracting for them.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 02:14 |
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doctor 7 posted:Also you bring up another reason to be proficient in something you aren't great at: giving somebody better than you advantage on their rolls. Man, I assist on EVERY roll in any game where I can possibly assist, being an assistant rules
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 02:27 |
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Note that you don't need to be proficient in a skill to use the help action to give someone else advantage. In certain cases (like the lockpicking example in the SRD) you'd need proficiency to fulfill the requirement "that he or she could attempt [the task] alone" but this isn't usually the case. If you're not proficient in insight you can still help someone interrogate an enemy, etc.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 02:45 |
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Kaysette posted:Note that you don't need to be proficient in a skill to use the help action to give someone else advantage. In certain cases (like the lockpicking example in the SRD) you'd need proficiency to fulfill the requirement "that he or she could attempt [the task] alone" but this isn't usually the case. If you're not proficient in insight you can still help someone interrogate an enemy, etc. Well that is super lame and I'd definitely not allow anybody to help with every skill ever otherwise you're rolling advantage for basically every skillcheck ever
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 03:00 |
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doctor 7 posted:Well that is super lame and I'd definitely not allow anybody to help with every skill ever otherwise you're rolling advantage for basically every skillcheck ever Turns out this game got some holes in it lol. The game genuinely doesn't have good advice for even when and how skill checks should work. A group playing 'optimally' should be using guidance + aid to give their skill expert advantage +1d4 on everything all the time. Fundamentally when you're in a situation where you have the time to do this, I really dont think you should be rolling at all but thats not really D&Ds thing. Theres also the big problem of 'I search for it', 'oh i look too' which is made easier to just aid another another and have one person roll so they get to be good at 'their thing'. kingcom fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 10, 2018 |
# ? Aug 10, 2018 03:31 |
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Gumby posted:Yeah, it's a long one-shot. Bring food. But you don't need to know anything about the group itself; the gist is your party is subcontracting for them. Oh, there's an actual adventure/book involved? Don't think I've played something from out of a book before, so this should be interesting.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 03:33 |
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doctor 7 posted:Well that is super lame and I'd definitely not allow anybody to help with every skill ever otherwise you're rolling advantage for basically every skillcheck ever I actually prefer the "One and Done" rule for skillchecks where the two best PCs for the job do the task as a single check with advantage over the Brute Force method parties tend to take otherwise. That way it's "Good thing we brought the magic nerds" instead of "everyone roll because someone will get a 19".
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 05:29 |
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Razorwired posted:I actually prefer the "One and Done" rule for skillchecks where the two best PCs for the job do the task as a single check with advantage over the Brute Force method parties tend to take otherwise. That way it's "Good thing we brought the magic nerds" instead of "everyone roll because someone will get a 19". Yeah with my group we do the "OK who has this skill? Whoever has the highest should roll. Does anyone else have it? OK yeah, so you can roll with advantage." If nobody has the skill, then whoever has the best chance via base stat mod can give it a go but we definitely play it if you fail you fail, no second rolling.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 06:04 |
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doctor 7 posted:Well that is super lame and I'd definitely not allow anybody to help with every skill ever otherwise you're rolling advantage for basically every skillcheck ever I see you've never heard of the Guidance cantrip.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 06:12 |
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P.d0t posted:I see you've never heard of the Guidance cantrip. Adding 1d4 is way more reasonable tbh
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 06:17 |
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You could argue a wizard's familiar could give you advantage almost constantly rules as written.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 06:25 |
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I tried to play an online game with random people. Wasn't as bad overall as I thought it might be, but I don't think I'll continue with that group. We needed to do something in a church to proceed. It was supposed to be a puzzle, but it was poorly worded to the point where nobody understood that it was even a puzzle, let alone what to do about it. After 20 minutes of nothing much happening, the DM cracked and said "it's something you could only do in the bell tower". The rest of the group spent nearly an hour loving around moving ladders and screaming NO WAIT WAIT whenever I said "I ring the bell". You'll never guess what we needed to do!
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 10:42 |
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AlphaDog posted:I tried to play an online game with random people. Wasn't as bad overall as I thought it might be, but I don't think I'll continue with that group. Build a ladder tower? But seriously, that's my biggest frustration with the group I DM currently. They just can't agree on poo poo. They're getting better, but fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 11:56 |
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# ? May 31, 2024 14:25 |
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The Dregs posted:OK, so my crotchety old bastard of a friend really wants to run his 'Dream D&D Campaign". I've seen his notes, some of them are over 30 years old. This will end badly, but it is sure to be a wild ride. His main rule is no magic. Sword and Sorcery, Conan style. Only humans. One guy got a special dispensation to play a halfling reskinned as a motherfucking midget. We're allowed one cleric, and she is supposed to only memorize healing supporty type stuff. His one exception is that if we can come up with a character concept that uses low-key magic stuff reskinned as mundane, he will allow it. So I am thinking beastmaster ranger. Every time I read something like this, I want to scream into a pillow. I mean, gently caress, even the PHB itself straight up tells you that you need magic to play the game. On page 8: "For adventurers, though, magic is key to their survival. Without the healing magic of clerics and paladins, adventurers would quickly succumb to their wounds. Without the uplifting magical support of bards and clerics, warriors might be overwhelmed by powerful foes. Without the sheer magical power and versatility of wizards and druids, every threat would be magnified tenfold." If you want to play something like Conan, go play Conan. Seriously. Everything may look like a nail when all you have is a hammer, but when you want to paint a wall just go get a brush. Stop hallucinating, because banging a tin of paint against the wall isn't going to do you any good. And they always cry at the end, "Everything is a mess and I'm covered with paint! ... Why did my players fail me and my glorious campaign ideas?!"
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 14:48 |