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Really what we need to do is just keep conquering parts of Europe.
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Aug 11, 2018 04:49
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Crowsbeak posted:Really what we need to do is just keep conquering parts of Europe. Yes, let's definitely get involved in a horrible meatgrinder that will make everyone mad at us and that serves little strategic or economic purpose. MUCH better than beating up a bunch of machine-gun-less weaklings for their vast hoards of spices and rubber and such, or the glory of controlling the Straits uncontested at last.
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Aug 11, 2018 05:07
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Why not just build up our SAVAK or what have you and go to town
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Aug 11, 2018 05:08
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I dunno. After the assassination, I really feel that while there is no God but God there can absolutely be something other than a Sultan. The Majlis saved this country once, it's time to do so again.
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Aug 11, 2018 05:18
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The Majli have also destroyed this country multiple times.
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Aug 11, 2018 05:31
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Should've ditched the monarchy back in the congress of Cadiz rather than saddling a tired old man with the job.Patter Song posted:seems to be working out just fine. Why fix what isn't broke? So what I'm hearing is, all the wealth colonies bring in that the people in this thread were clamoring about only went to benefit and reinforce the control of the people already in charge? Who'da thunk it. This is the price Al Andalus pays for slipping out of its position as plucky underdog.
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Aug 11, 2018 05:34
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:The Majli have also destroyed this country multiple times. But they did save it exactly once!
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Aug 11, 2018 05:35
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:The Majli have also destroyed this country multiple times. In fairness, so have the Sultans.
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Aug 11, 2018 05:38
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SlothfulCobra posted:
We are the people in charge. Why should we want to change that and let other people vote?
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Aug 11, 2018 05:40
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What’s good for the ship is good for the crew. And the imperials have delivered our cores, prestige and victory against our rivals. Also boats. Why speculate what other parties may or may not do when it comes to scary things like “reforms” or “benefits” for anyone but ourselves. We have become strong as a nation in the time in history when you either ate or were eaten.
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Aug 11, 2018 07:04
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:What’s good for the ship is good for the crew. And the imperials have delivered our cores, prestige and victory against our rivals. Also boats. Why speculate what other parties may or may not do when it comes to scary things like “reforms” or “benefits” for anyone but ourselves. We have become strong as a nation in the time in history when you either ate or were eaten. Being fair, here, the Imperialists want suffrage. At least for Andalusian males. It just so happens that we're wholly incompetent at accomplishing that, and very good at building boats and winning lopsided wars by comparison.
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Aug 11, 2018 07:10
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MaxieSatan posted:MUCH better than beating up a bunch of machine-gun-less weaklings for their vast hoards of spices and rubber and such, or the glory of controlling the Straits uncontested at last. I believe that Hashim said that only the Royalists are interested in reclaiming the Straits. Anyways, I am still holding out hope that all of us in the ruling class gets murdered by the communists, but I know in my heart that we don’t deserve such luxuries.
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Aug 11, 2018 07:18
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Remember when the genius Majis decided to push the kingdom to the brink, in order to become revolutionary? And then hosed it up? Maybe the blatant disregard for the common man in Al-Andalus has contributed to the formation of this glorious reactionary paradise we have going on.
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Aug 11, 2018 08:20
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Red John posted:Remember when the genius Majis decided to push the kingdom to the brink, in order to become revolutionary? And then hosed it up? Yes, give more power to Sultan, take on all of Europe.
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Aug 11, 2018 09:57
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If we had wanted political reforms, we should have gone Imperialist back during the Springtime of Nations, not Moderate and then Royalist. What we're witnessing now, is one of the fundamental flaws of V2, where parts of the population have enough militancy to rebel, but there isn't enough militancy in the population to bring conservatives and socialists to support political reforms. And every time a revolution is put down, average militancy goes down again, because we killed the militant pops. This traps us in a cycle where we keep putting down revolts, but never achieve reforms because there's never enough militancy to create a majority for reform in the upper house. What would break us out of this? One option would be to lose a war where we didn't accomplish several wargoals. Every time you fail to realise a wargoal, every POP gets 2 militancy. This would raise our average militancy really quickly, allowing us to pass reforms. We would however lose a TON of prestige. Alternatively, we would need to fully fund education and actually bring our literacy values up, since those govern how much consciousness we have in our population and high consciousness makes POPs join movements for reforms, which also modifies parties' willingness to support reforms. The position we're in right now means we're bleeding a TON of POPs regularly from both the failed uprisings and from emigration, which is just a poo poo position to be stuck in.
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Aug 11, 2018 12:15
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ZearothK posted:Yeah, rebels don't benefit from any technology or invention in V2, so once you have enough of them you can essentially kill infinity dissidents with any professional army. This is true in the vanilla, but as far as I remember, NNM boosts rebels every twenty years or so.
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Aug 11, 2018 12:36
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sheep-dodger posted:If we had wanted political reforms, we should have gone Imperialist back during the Springtime of Nations, not Moderate and then Royalist. What we're witnessing now, is one of the fundamental flaws of V2, where parts of the population have enough militancy to rebel, but there isn't enough militancy in the population to bring conservatives and socialists to support political reforms. And every time a revolution is put down, average militancy goes down again, because we killed the militant pops. This traps us in a cycle where we keep putting down revolts, but never achieve reforms because there's never enough militancy to create a majority for reform in the upper house. I vote, lose a war.
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Aug 11, 2018 14:25
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Losing a war seems like a really good way to have someone yoink away all our hard-won Iberian soil, 1) making us more vulnerable to fascism and turning our country into even more of a hellscape and 2) ruining all the hard work we did building infrastructure and conquering illegitimate states and such. If we're going to go that route we should just deliberately let rebels take over. Which the Sultan would never allow. I agree with Patter. This isn't an ideal situation for us, but if it ain't broke, don't tear it apart in the hopes of fixing it.
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Aug 11, 2018 15:13
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New strategy: 1.) Elect the royalists 2.) Go absolutist 3.) Wait until we get a Sultan who is vaguely sympathetic to liberal and social reforms 4.) ???? 5.) Claim our place as a social democratic paradise See, it's simple! I don't know what you all are blubbering about. The Sultan will fix everything so long as we give him complete and utter control over society.
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Aug 11, 2018 15:52
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Or we can just try to not lose a war and see how that goes.
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Aug 11, 2018 16:06
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Crowsbeak posted:I vote, lose a war. Wouldn't a white peace do the same thing? Like if we tried to take the remaining Moroccan land but didn't get it? I'm a CK/EU player, not a Vicky one, so I don't know. I really don't want to lose a war to Morocco no matter what the circumstances. Frangleterre wouldn't be as bad since I think they still mostly like us even if they allied up with the Almoravids after the worst diplomatic blunder in the history of civilization.
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Aug 11, 2018 16:20
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Snipee posted:I believe that Hashim said that only the Royalists are interested in reclaiming the Straits. What do you mean reclaiming?
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Aug 11, 2018 16:26
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Patter Song posted:What do you mean reclaiming? Didn't we briefly hold them early in CKII when it doesn't matter.
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Aug 11, 2018 16:29
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Excuse me, I have very historical documents on hand that prove Andalusia once controlled all land between Mali and Russia, only for the perfidious Finns to shatter our mighty empire
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Aug 11, 2018 16:37
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MaxieSatan posted:Excuse me, I have very historical documents on hand that prove Andalusia once controlled all land between Mali and Russia, only for the perfidious Finns to shatter our mighty empire Al Hwandalus
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Aug 11, 2018 16:47
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Patter Song posted:What do you mean reclaiming? I forgot that we never held it in the first place. The shame was too great. 
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Aug 11, 2018 16:53
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Snipee posted:I forgot that we never held it in the first place. The shame was too great. We held it (for, like an hour) during our invasion of Morocco during the Tirruni Wars! It counts!
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Aug 11, 2018 17:26
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Insane irredentist movements have been started on less.
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Aug 11, 2018 19:02
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puppets freak me out posted:Insane irredentist movements have been started on less. Please do not shame old great Bulgaria
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Aug 11, 2018 20:29
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Patter Song posted:If people wanted the country to reform, maybe they shouldn't have ably led it to be the #2 power in the world, victor of every war its participated in this century, reclaiming massive amounts of territory with a booming economy and the world's second-highest prestige rating? It worked out swell for the German Empire. And then they lost World War I. So I guess what I'm saying is that when the Great War happens we need to be on the losing side.
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Aug 12, 2018 01:59
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Who needs democracy or economic egalitarianism when everything seems to be working fine? A militaristic oligarchy with press censorship, no unions, and harassed parties with unlimited work hours, no health care, no pensions, no public schools, and no unemployment dole seems to be working out just fine. Why fix what isn't broke?
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We do not claim the Straits because they were once ours, but because they ought to be ours. Because we are owed them as compensation for centuries of Berber sabotage of our fair civilization and because controlling the Straits is the only way to safeguard our liberty.
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Aug 12, 2018 02:03
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Mantis42 posted:We do not claim the Straits because they were once ours, but because they ought to be ours. Because we are owed them as compensation for centuries of Berber sabotage of our fair civilization and because controlling the Straits is the only way to safeguard our liberty. Also, as the Tirrunnis now are part of us, we are owed his empire.
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Aug 12, 2018 02:06
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What Straits anyway? I thought we were only claiming the one Strait of Gibraltar. Did we lay claim to something else while i wasn't looking?
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Aug 12, 2018 02:13
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Frionnel posted:What Straits anyway? I thought we were only claiming the one Strait of Gibraltar. Did we lay claim to something else while i wasn't looking? Do you questions Al-Anadalus's rightful claim to all straits?
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Aug 12, 2018 02:38
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Technowolf posted:Do you questions Al-Anadalus's rightful claim to all straits? Conceptual irredentism. All straits are Andalusi.
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Aug 12, 2018 02:40
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Has "control" over the strait of Gibralter ever actually mattered? I know it "mattered" enough to Britain to permanently seize their own little territory to keep an eye on things, but that's not the same as seizing total control of things. Has anybody historically managed to set up a successful blockade or toll system or even stringing one of those giant chains across like the Byzantines did at the Bosporus? And more importantly, is the possibility of doing such represented by anything in-game, or is it just one of those insane human compulsions against the game engine like pretty borders? (and of course, a border in Africa wouldn't be very pretty at all) Also, if we're using some alt-hist Arabic-transliteration spellings, the name that the Arabs used for the strait was "Al-Zuqaq" since they'd likely not gradually corrupt the original Arabic name of the rock "Jebel Tariq" into some unrecognizable thing. And I'm not just saying that because I'm terrible at spelling Gibraltir.
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Aug 12, 2018 02:40
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If you control the Strait then unfriendly ships can't move between it during war time. This makes it pretty easy to have a free hand in the Mediterranean. Of course, the Suez Canal can negate this, so maybe we should grab some land from the Egyptians at some point...
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Aug 12, 2018 02:47
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Mantis42 posted:If you control the Strait then unfriendly ships can't move between it during war time. This makes it pretty easy to have a free hand in the Mediterranean. I mean, in theory, yes, but A. that's not a game mechanics thing, and B. ignoring point A and just talking in terms of narrative, Andalus has always had a trash-tier navy and a strong enough power would sail right through. Gibraltar isn't so tight that coastal forts could bombard ships to prevent them from passing through.
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Aug 12, 2018 02:49
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Patter Song posted:I mean, in theory, yes, but A. that's not a game mechanics thing, and B. ignoring point A and just talking in terms of narrative, Andalus has always had a trash-tier navy and a strong enough power would sail right through. Gibraltar isn't so tight that coastal forts could bombard ships to prevent them from passing through. Excuse me our navy was top tier in CKII
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Aug 12, 2018 03:04
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Jack2142 posted:Excuse me our navy was top tier in CKII we never lost a battle!
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Aug 12, 2018 03:09
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