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its fine the way it is
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 20:31 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:10 |
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Count me as another reader who doesn't favor consolidation.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 20:36 |
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It’s the right move. For some reason people post about the other company sneeringly in both threads anyway. Yet if you ask, “why do we allow middle school console style fanboy sniping in CPU threads that we wouldn’t tolerate on any other number of topics,” you basically get shut down by partisans who enjoy partisan red meat. Also it’s not like either thread is immunized against disingenuous trolling so let’s just have CPU Discussion General. People think it’s the apocalypse, but the apocalypse is already here. Edit: One reason I’d be okay keeping it the way it is would be because the naming comventions for chipsets etc are so similar. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Aug 10, 2018 |
# ? Aug 10, 2018 20:42 |
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Potato Salad posted:It's been discussed before--and if memory serves me right--with positive responses. u focking wot m8 GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:
Measly Twerp posted:I mean, of course things are going to go bad posting about AMD in the Intel thread, but there's less reason to be lovely if it's just the CPU thread. Anime Schoolgirl posted:it would actually legitimately own just not in a productive way SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Aug 10, 2018 |
# ? Aug 10, 2018 21:02 |
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Join the threads up. Fanboy babies already "ruin" both threads individually.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 21:52 |
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finally a thread I, a Cyrix fanboy, will feel welcome in
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 22:06 |
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Sent from my iPad posted:finally a thread I, a Cyrix fanboy, will feel welcome in the gently caress
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 22:10 |
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Thinking I should sell my 3770K, Z77 board, and 16GB DDR3 because the 120mm AIO is beginning to be Still Working But Too Old, and I don’t want to invest in new cooling for it. And as was mentioned in the other thread, people still pay good money for top-of-class components for a generation. My thought is of getting a B450 board and a used 1600 on stock cooling until 8-core Zen2 appears and then swap it for that and a big rear end 240/280 cooler. Thoughts? I know someone will shout about VRMs but the MSI boards seem to be well made and I have my eye on the B450M Mortar, since it’s the only option for a white board and an all white mATX design is kinda what I’m hyped up for.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 22:25 |
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Potato Salad posted:x86 CPUs: The Intel/AMD Thread Only if the thread is moved to and stays in the POS.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 22:33 |
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Potato Salad posted:x86 CPUs: The Intel/AMD Thread I started writing an op months ago, it grew to a monster size. You're prolly going to want to get people in both threads to agree on a new op's content before petitioning a mod, surely? For a long time nothing happened in x86 land and it seemed like a good idea, but as more new tech started popping up I lost interest. Jawn or someone posting a new extra thread about CPU hardware design and production would make me happy. I would love the rear end out of a thread about that. CPU hardware news from x86 / arm / power / all in one place could be cool AF. GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Aug 10, 2018 |
# ? Aug 10, 2018 22:51 |
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Craptacular! posted:Thinking I should sell my 3770K, Z77 board, and 16GB DDR3 because the 120mm AIO is beginning to be Still Working But Too Old, and I don’t want to invest in new cooling for it. And as was mentioned in the other thread, people still pay good money for top-of-class components for a generation. The b450 MSI tomahawk seems to be the best vrm out of the b450 boards.
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# ? Aug 10, 2018 23:07 |
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Sent from my iPad posted:finally a thread I, a Cyrix fanboy, will feel welcome in I tried to find the chart of the Cyrix lineage, but I failed miserably.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 00:22 |
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B-Mac posted:The b450 MSI tomahawk seems to be the best vrm out of the b450 boards. Seems to me that looking at a Ryzen 2, that a x470 board is going to be the wiser choice
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 00:32 |
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LRADIKAL posted:Seems to me that looking at a Ryzen 2, that a x470 board is going to be the wiser choice From what I’ve seen the majority of x470 boards have similar vrm setups as some of the b450s until you get into the $200 range. I don’t see much of a point in getting x470 unless you need SLI or a specific board feature. You still get the big new features like XFR2, PBO and StoreMI. I’d be happy to look at info that says otherwise as there isn’t a ton out there. B-Mac fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 00:38 |
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Khorne posted:Are you a big enough fanboy to know that they are kind of the company AMD made a deal with in China so the chinese market has epyc/zen clones made by a chinese company? Weren't they sold to VIA nearly 2 decades ago?
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 00:55 |
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I used a VIA EPIA 933mhz mini-ITX system for a router for a couple of years. It still works but RIP m0n0wall.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 01:02 |
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It's a good thing you don't run it anymore. Apparently certain VIA chips were just completely useless as far as security went: Hacker Finds Hidden 'God Mode' on Old x86 CPUs quote:
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 03:59 |
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I'm sure it's fine, I just keep all my bitcoins on there and use it to monitor my pacemaker and download torrents over public vpns.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 04:27 |
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Khorne posted:Are you a big enough fanboy to know that they are kind of the company AMD made a deal with in China so the chinese market has epyc/zen clones made by a chinese company? Here's the one I posted previously
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 04:47 |
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For those curious, The current company there is Zhaoxin Semiconductor, a fabless semiconductor company founded by the Shanghai Municipal Government, which it jointly owns with VIA. Intel's naming scheme is lakes in the US and Canada, and Zhaoxin's naming scheme is metro/subway stations in China.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 04:58 |
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Craptacular! posted:My thought is of getting a B450 board and a used 1600 on stock cooling until 8-core Zen2 appears and then swap it for that and a big rear end 240/280 cooler. They're fine for running stock 8C/16T or a somewhat overclocked 4-6C/8-12T Ryzen though so if you don't care about OC'ing 8C/16T you'll be set and just fine with that 1600. If you do actually really plan on OC'ing (mild to moderately, not balls to the wall max every Mhz OC'ing) then the cheapest mobo worth a drat for that from a vendor with OK-ish BIOS support would be the ASUS Prime X470-Pro IMO. This opinion being based off Buildzoid's review which is here. Only rub is the stock VRM heatsinks are a joke so don't let the CPU volts get to 1.4v (BZ was getting over temp shutdowns, well north of 100C, at those volts) when OC'ing (going by BZ's comments keep it at 1.35-1.37v max) and you'll probably be OK for 24/7 use though the VRM will be running fairly toasty at those volts. If you don't mind modding the stock mobo VRM HSF, or just pointing a fan at it which does seem to help though might not be enough at 1.4v vcore either, you won't care about that issue since you'll just fix it yourself and the actual VRM components and design are apparently just fine otherwise. While its about older B350 mobos its still a worthwhile video on why all the cheaper, well more affordable, AM4 mobo's aren't all that good and are largely the same. If you don't mind spending more than that I'd look at the ASUS ROG Strix X470-F or the GIGABYTE X470 AORUS GAMING 7. Craptacular! posted:I know someone will shout about VRMs but the MSI boards seem to be well made B-Mac posted:The b450 MSI tomahawk seems to be the best vrm out of the b450 boards. B-Mac posted:From what I’ve seen the majority of x470 boards have similar vrm setups as some of the b450s until you get into the $200 range..... I’d be happy to look at info that says otherwise as there isn’t a ton out there. The Buildzoid review is linked up above and while the guy rambles a bit too much for my liking he also does a decent job of reviewing something and explaining why something sucks and/or is good while also being fairly blunt about what is bullshit and what isn't. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 08:57 |
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:None of the VRM's on even the "good" B450 mobo's will do a decent job of supporting a overclocked(which is what I'm assuming you'll be doing with a big rear end cooler like that, either manually or by allowing the system to OC itself through XFR) 8C/16T Zen2. Well yes, I’ll probably enable XFR and not particularly care if the board limits it’s potential in some way. I just want eight cores so I can play and stream simultaneously, and my picks on motherboard are based more on color for tempered glass bling than power delivery, so you can see how serious I am about extreme clocks. I’ve discovered there’s basically loving nothing but a lot of thin air between the majority of boards, with basically no real gap between an ASRock PRO and the Asus Crosshair. And I’m not buying a Crosshair. I mean gently caress man, I don’t even OC memory. I’ve watched these hours of dudes whining about cheap board’s you’ve referenced, and said bollocks to that. Even in the comments for your usual Buildzoid “why I’d never use this” video, you get this usual reply chain: “This information was useless to people running middling OC on stock or middling cooling.” “Well DUUUUUH that’s why the channel is called Actually Hardcore and not Actually Casual Overclocking or Actually One Button Overclocking. It’s supposed to be the perspective of a guy whose needs way outstrip yours!”
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 09:23 |
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are you not running your memory in xmp mode? fake edit: noob real edit: (reg dates) LRADIKAL fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 09:31 |
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I’ve never known much about memory. My motherboard considers everything up to DDR3-1600 to be stock goodness, so I bought Corsair Vengeance sticks rated for such speeds and manually set the memory to that speed. Enabling the XMP profile does the same thing as well as additionally turn on a bunch of “helpful” out of spec voltage features on the processor (we’re talking like PLL overvoltage) that were technically warranty breaking. So the answer is “effectively yes, but officially no because officially choosing XMP in 2012 motherboards was an invitation for a host of Auto OC tweaks you didn’t want.” I will never mess with timings and poo poo off manufacturer spec.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 09:37 |
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Craptacular! posted:Well yes, I’ll probably enable XFR and not particularly care if the board limits it’s potential in some way. You would, in effect, be throwing your money away getting a 240/280mm AIO watercooler for such a system. It won't be able to give you any benefit over a el cheapo air cooled heatpipe HSF with a 120/140mm fan on it. Craptacular! posted:so you can see how serious I am about extreme clocks. Craptacular! posted:Even in the comments for your usual Buildzoid “why I’d never use this” video, you get this usual reply chain: PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 09:44 |
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Its not just in "some way" though. You basically won't be able to much if at all. Some of them are running into issues at stock clocks and better than stock cooling with the 8C/16T chips where even the minor OC headroom that XFR2/PBO can offer there is going unused because the mobo can't cut the mustard. So if I’m going water because I want to look at RGB memory (yes, I am going that wastefully childish over using my PC as a 21st century lava lamp) then a 140mm cooler and stock is fine? What if I dropped aesthetic ideas and went to the Gaming Pro Carbon (AC)? I think that one has a 6 phase that’s better than the low end X470 boards. Either way, Guru3D’s Tomahawk review got a 2700X stable at stable at 4.2, results may vary of course and it got unacceptably hot for my tastes, but I’m expecting next year’s chip to be able to hit this mark with greater power efficiency. That is how new processes work, right? Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 09:59 |
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Craptacular! posted:So if I’m going water because I want to look at RGB memory (yes, I am going that wastefully childish over using my PC as a 21st century lava lamp) then a 140mm cooler and stock is fine? I got the idea you cared more about cosmetics from your other comments but not that much FWIW. Craptacular! posted:What if I dropped aesthetic ideas and went to the Gaming Pro Carbon (AC)? I think that one has a 6 phase that’s better than the low end X470 boards. Craptacular! posted:I’m expecting next year’s chip to be able to hit this mark with greater power efficiency. That is how new processes work, right?
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 10:15 |
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Speaking of, any way to stop my 2700X idle temps from bouncing around between 40 and 55C? I don't mind the concept except it makes a mess of my fan curves. The latest Crosshair BIOS update seems like it might have exacerbated things a bit, but it's particularly weird how the temps/voltage would jump up and down with the same (non-)load. Only defaults I've changed is RAM speed from Auto to 3200. I also switched to the regular Balanced power profile since the Ryzen Balanced profile is basically deprecated now apparently.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 10:32 |
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ufarn posted:Speaking of, any way to stop my 2700X idle temps from bouncing around between 40 and 55C?
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 10:39 |
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:From the perspective of wanting any improvement in OC'ing at all yes a 240/280mm AIO watercooler would probably be of no benefit vs a 140mm heatpipe air cooler for such a system. From the perspective of "forget OC'ing I'm all about cosmetics" will be a different story of course. It’s not so much a huge emphasis on cosmetics but I only tried to OC a system for the first time this year, and I’ve owned a 386 in 1995. I never felt a reason to OC anything the past twenty years, because new processors were developing so quickly that I honestly never felt anything was too slow before you weren’t simply better off buying a new processor to deal with it anyway. The death of Moore’s Law has made it hard to find substantial room for improvements beyond my reason for going 8 core: simultaneous gaming/streaming. Which means if running the next chip on a sub-$200 board, I’d rather run an 8 core at stock than a 6 core at OC. I lean toward water to do jobs air can do because huge heat sinks block RGB memory in addition to the standard drawbacks, which is my biggest splurge toward aesthetics. Regarding the Carbon: I’m also trying to go with an MSI board for reasons that are mental and hard to explain (owned lots of Asus boards forever, wasn’t suuuper satisfied with my current Asus and would like a change; like MSi firmware, satisfied with one of their GPUs the one time I had it) and it’s sort of convenient that their boards seem to be as good as middling boards get. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 10:42 |
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Craptacular! posted:I never felt a reason to OC anything the past twenty years + The death of Moore’s Law has made it hard to find substantial room for improvements beyond my reason for going 8 core: simultaneous gaming/streaming. + Regarding the Carbon: Craptacular! posted:I lean toward water to do jobs air can do because huge heat sinks block RGB memory in addition to the standard drawbacks edit: \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Yeah they do exist but from his further posting he really wants to be able to see the RGB effect clearly to get that "lava lamp" effect so that doesn't seem to be the way he wants to go.\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 10:56 |
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Craptacular! posted:Which means if running the next chip on a sub-$200 board, I’d rather run an 8 core at stock than a 6 core at OC. I lean toward water to do jobs air can do because huge heat sinks block RGB memory in addition to the standard drawbacks, which is my biggest splurge toward aesthetics.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 11:09 |
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OK, here's a dumb question: Why do Threadripper boards (at least the ones that came with the first gen) have a 8+3 power phase design, while mainboards for the same generation Ryzen have 16 power phase designs? Even if they're doubled in the latter case, both type of boards appear to have 60A chokes on all phases (say X399 Taichi vs X370 Taichi).
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 14:17 |
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Turns out AMD is satisfied with licensing x86, no merger will occur.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 14:22 |
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:None of the VRM's on even the "good" B450 mobo's will do a decent job of supporting a overclocked(which is what I'm assuming you'll be doing with a big rear end cooler like that, either manually or by allowing the system to OC itself through XFR) 8C/16T Zen2. Calling them garbage is being hyperbolic and that true 6 phase isn't going to get you much over the 4 phase on the tomahawk. I could see the case for getting the much better VRMs if you think the next ryzen gens are going to come with greater than 8 cores and you are planning for that but for 8 cores they are fine, even for overclocking. They do require a bit of airflow but then again so does the board you linked as well. I based this off level1techcs video and hardware unboxed. I appreciate the thoroughness that buildzoid has for these mobo and gpu reviews but not everyone is putting these chips under LN2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osvm26W4e3M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWGzmbbimPw Heres a nice list of VRMs for most of the boards. https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html B-Mac fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 14:54 |
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Combat Pretzel posted:OK, here's a dumb question: Given their current common practice of trying to sell 4 phase boards as 8 phase or trying to count the RAM VRM as part of the CPU VRM for marketing purposes is it really that hard to believe they'd do something scummy or underhanded?
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 14:54 |
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B-Mac posted:Calling them garbage is being hyperbolic B-Mac posted:and that true 6 phase isn't going to get you much over the 4 phase on the tomahawk. B-Mac posted:but not everyone is putting these chips under LN2. edit: \/\/\/\/\/\/ I didn't ignore most, or any, of what you said at all there dude. I selectively quoted to keep the post length down since doing total quote posts of long length gets annoying after a while. And yeah I watched the video and the guy was basically fine with the VRM temps after making sure it had a 120mm fan blowing air around it in a case. 85C+ temps is pretty dang toasty at stock clocks for a CPU VRM in a open air bench. \/\/\/\/\/\/ PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 15:23 |
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:For 8C/16T OC'ing they're absolutely garbage, the VRM will usually start to real hot and you can run into thermal shut down protection for a reason on some of them. I appreciate you ignoring most of what I said there and selecting only what you wanted. I agreed with you saying that 6 true phases is better than a 4 phase, not that vrms don’t matter at all. Wendell said in his video the vrms were sitting in the 70s and 80s C on the tomahawk and handled the overclocked 2700X just fine. I didn’t say to get any B450 and overclock the hell out of the 2700x, I only talked about one specific B450 board. Watch the video if you haven’t already. I guess these hardware threads aren’t much fun if we can’t call stuff garbage or poo poo and max that hyperbole meter out. B-Mac fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 15:31 |
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Also, if you're running with a closed loop watercooling solution you won't get much if any airflow over the VRM's naturally. With air cooling (standard tower cooler) you typically have a lot of airflow around the CPU socket area without having to do anything special. Some boards don't have overtemp protection on the VRM's either (see: Buildzoid's video on the X470 Master SLI - no LN2 involved there, just an AIO, quite modest voltages and power consumption, and the VRM exceeded 125°C within minutes). If you're buying high end CPU's with the intent of pushing them even a little bit, you really, really should buy high end motherboards as well. Or at least top-of-midrange or whatever. Even if it works and doesn't shut down under load, high temps do age things like capacitors rather quickly and the board might die in a year or two instead of lasting basically forever.
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# ? Aug 11, 2018 15:37 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:10 |
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:edit: \/\/\/\/\/\/ I didn't ignore most, or any, of what you said at all there dude. I selectively quoted to keep the post length down since doing total quote posts of long length gets annoying after a while. And yeah I watched the video and the guy was basically fine with the VRM temps after making sure it had a 120mm fan blowing air around it in a case. 85C+ temps is pretty dang toasty at stock clocks for a CPU VRM in a open air bench. \/\/\/\/\/\/ That was overclocked running for 16 hours with the plexiglass cover on the test bench so it wasn’t open air at that point. B-Mac fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Aug 11, 2018 |
# ? Aug 11, 2018 15:48 |