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How do you think the planes get into the air?
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Aug 9, 2018 12:57
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:48 |
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Treadmills
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Aug 9, 2018 15:20
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The device that winds up the rubberbands broke. From what I've heard, a bunch of NE bound departures were being held at the gate due to weather at their destinations. The ramp filled up, and arrivals had to hold.
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Aug 9, 2018 17:30
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We have any Seattle folks that got to deal with the incident tonight?
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Aug 11, 2018 06:20
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Just got off work, got a little hold over for the craziness. I was working one of our low sectors that feeds PDX when the F15s scrambled up to the area north of me and went into Seattle approach. Tons of diversions and rerouting, it was pretty wild.
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Aug 11, 2018 06:31
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Specifically, a suicidal Horizon employee somehow stole an empty Q400 and flew it around Puget Sound before crashing it. It appears the employee was the only one killed.
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Aug 11, 2018 06:34
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https://twitter.com/jwsthomson/status/1028134044502908929 Thread of various recordings.
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Aug 11, 2018 06:35
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Does anyone have resources or links to example audio recordings concerning filing IFR and/or obtaining an IFR clearance airborne? With visibility hovering around VFR minima here due to smoke recently, I feel like it'd be a good idea to know, and we never actually did it during my instrument rating training. I'd prefer not to have an angry centre controller yelling at me if/when I attempt it for the first time.
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Aug 12, 2018 01:04
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PT6A posted:Does anyone have resources or links to example audio recordings concerning filing IFR and/or obtaining an IFR clearance airborne? With visibility hovering around VFR minima here due to smoke recently, I feel like it'd be a good idea to know, and we never actually did it during my instrument rating training. I'd prefer not to have an angry centre controller yelling at me if/when I attempt it for the first time. If the weather is bad and you just want to pick up IFR to a nearby airport it's pretty easy. Just say you're requesting an IFR clearance to wherever, and the controller will most likely clear you to XXX airport "via radar vectors" and assign an altitude and a new squawk code. That's all there is to it if it's a local airport in their airspace.
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Aug 12, 2018 04:50
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Iucounu posted:If the weather is bad and you just want to pick up IFR to a nearby airport it's pretty easy. Just say you're requesting an IFR clearance to wherever, and the controller will most likely clear you to XXX airport "via radar vectors" and assign an altitude and a new squawk code. That's all there is to it if it's a local airport in their airspace. Thanks, that's pretty much what I ended up finding after some more investigation -- apparently the magic phrase (that occurs nowhere in my textbook) is "pop-up IFR." And departing from an uncontrolled airport, apparently the best practice is to pick up the clearance by phone prior to departure.
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Aug 12, 2018 14:09
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If you have a VFR flight plan on file it helps immensely as we won't have to tie up a frequency while you read off your phone number and poo poo.
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Aug 12, 2018 14:37
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PT6A posted:And departing from an uncontrolled airport, apparently the best practice is to pick up the clearance by phone prior to departure. If I ever find the rear end in a top hat that posted our area desk number at every FBO and ready room in the south half of the state, I’ll loving kill them. fknlo posted:If you have a VFR flight plan on file it helps immensely as we won't have to tie up a frequency while you read off your phone number and poo poo. This is huge. Not always possible, but it’s a lot of frequency time to get the SAR info.
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Aug 12, 2018 16:27
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quote:Although the cause of the Texas accident has not yet been determined, the NTSB said the safety risks associated with low-level turbulence are well known and that there should be consistency in the issuance of turbulence weather advisories for pilots no matter what altitude that might be operating. Link I’m sure this will lead to a good outcome for the ATO, and not another knee-jerk rules addition that takes absolutely no account of existing workload, and piles additional phraseology and responsibilities onto controllers. Surely not. 
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Aug 17, 2018 13:08
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Sounds like they're hitting the National Weather Service pretty hard over it. It didn't mention ATC involvement. I'm not familiar with the accident. Was he vectored into detectable precip and not told about it?
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Aug 17, 2018 13:55
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The Ferret King posted:Sounds like they're hitting the National Weather Service pretty hard over it. It didn't mention ATC involvement. Here's the NTSB narrative, which yes, intimates that maybe the NWS should be a little more consistent on issuing advisories. My concern is dissemination; It seems like the FAA is still OK with all weather dissemination responsibility falling on controllers, which is absolutely ludicrous, considering: A: My bandwidth to the airplane is constrained by nature of being in communication solely via an analog AM VHF voice radio. B: Nearly all IFR traffic has the same NEXRAD information in the cockpit that I'm staring at. C: The SIGMET/AIRMET/CONVECTIVE SIGMET system is just as broken as the NOTAM system. There is zero reason I should be obligated to read weather products over the radio (and thus require the flight crews to tune a seperate radio, and then listen to a voice recording of those weather products which may or may not actually effect them, which of course never happens,) when in a sane world they'd be piped into the flight deck electronically, and automatically filtered for relevance, simultaneously decreasing my workload and letting me separate airplanes, and drastically reducing the signal to noise ratio in the cockpit. I'm legally required to read Havana, San Juan, and Kingston FIR weather products in a departure sector for northbound traffic from south Florida. What I'm saying is that ADS-B In should be mandatory for IFR operations, and that the FAA is more concerned with mitigating responsibility and pandering to the five people left in the country flying /A than it is with actually improving safety.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:20
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What is the worst airspace to bust?
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Aug 17, 2018 15:47
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MrYenko posted:What I'm saying is that ADS-B In should be mandatory for IFR operations, and that the FAA is more concerned with mitigating responsibility and pandering to the five people left in the country flying /A than it is with actually improving safety. Hell, even loving around in a wee, poorly equipped Cessna 172, I can access all NavCanda-issued weather data and real-time radar overlays on my iPad via ForeFlight. I don't know if it's different for IFR traffic, but up here it seems to be that the controller's "responsibility" extends as far as saying, "uh, have you read the SIGMET concerning [...]?" and passing on relevant PIREPs (thank you, blind person the other day who reported sub-VFR visibility even though it was clearly >3SM at the time).
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Aug 17, 2018 15:59
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I imagine they get pretty hot in the Washington DC area over prohibited airspace busts. Presidential TFRs too. Though, busting some restricted areas might put you in the path of military ordinance, so that could be pretty bad too, if you were super unlucky. Any of those gets an intercept for sure.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:00
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There's a prohibited area SFC-2499 over a nuclear submarine base outside of Seattle, and if you're on flight following the controllers start getting nervous when you're within 3nm laterally or about 1500' vertically of it Then yesterday they vectored me overhead (I was IFR in VMC) at 3,000', basically directly over it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Aug 17, 2018 17:24
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PT6A posted:Hell, even loving around in a wee, poorly equipped Cessna 172, I can access all NavCanda-issued weather data and real-time radar overlays on my iPad via ForeFlight. In addition to blindly issuing all the weather products that come out of our CWSU and from nearby facilities, the FAA obligates US controllers to issue precipitation warnings as part of our primary duties, immediately after separating aircraft. This is fine and dandy in the labs in Oklahoma City and the tech center, where you may see nine aircraft at a time in a 200x250mi sector, but is completely ridiculous in south Florida in the summertime with twenty-plus air carriers on frequency in a sector with sub five-minute time-on-freq. The (mandatory) phraseology is specific, and lengthy. Basically any time I get busy, I am ignoring one of my primary duties, because there just isn’t enough frequency time. Datacomm might actually help with this, to be fair. It just pisses me off that the FAA makes me responsible for something that is nearly impossible to comply with fully. The Ferret King posted:Though, busting some restricted areas might put you in the path of military ordinance, so that could be pretty bad too, if you were super unlucky. Had some poor 1200 code schlub bust R2901 the other day with an AC-130 doing live fire. The range officer was not pleased.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:27
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I'm pretty sure I'm the only person in my area that regularly reads SIGMETS/AIRMETS/CWA's. We also have specific NOTAM related stuff we're supposed to do after multiple incidents within the past year that involved neither the pilot or controller reading the NOTAM's, yet people still don't do that even if they aren't at all busy.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:46
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a patagonian cavy posted:There's a prohibited area SFC-2499 over a nuclear submarine base outside of Seattle, and if you're on flight following the controllers start getting nervous when you're within 3nm laterally or about 1500' vertically of it Look there's nothing there just some grassy hills don't ask questions.
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Aug 17, 2018 21:06
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https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1035218618664071169 At least we still get some money every year per the current contract!
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Aug 30, 2018 19:12
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I recently got relocated to WJHTC to support WARP. We're working an issue out of ZTL and ZDC that maybe you could shine some light on. Its particularly concerning aircraft deviations due to weather that aren't being seen on the scopes. From the analysis done a few weeks ago, 67% of the flights deviating were Delta. Due to the hub in ATL, this number isn't surprising; however, I've seen jokes that Delta deviates from pretty much anything. The issue we're seeing is that in most cases what's on the scope reported by WARP is accurate with a few outliers in FL240-300. The question I have is whether the aircraft is deviating due to onboard reporting (radar or apps) or are there special protocols Delta or even other airlines are following in relationship to turbulence or weather perception. I figured even if someone isn't at ZTL or ZDC they've seen this before. I'm not looking for anything on the record, but some enlightenment would help on this. Perhaps I should be asking in the aviation thread? Let me know if more info is needed.
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Sep 4, 2018 21:06
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Well I expect them to go around buildups that they see out the window. That's pretty common.
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Sep 4, 2018 21:54
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Thunderhawk posted:I recently got relocated to WJHTC to support WARP. We're working an issue out of ZTL and ZDC that maybe you could shine some light on. Its particularly concerning aircraft deviations due to weather that aren't being seen on the scopes. From the analysis done a few weeks ago, 67% of the flights deviating were Delta. Due to the hub in ATL, this number isn't surprising; however, I've seen jokes that Delta deviates from pretty much anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191 33 years and the institutional culture is one of safety, isn't that how aviation is supposed to work?
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Sep 4, 2018 22:02
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In my experience, delta is just insanely preoccupied with rides. They don’t deviate too much more than anyone else. That title belongs to American. It’s not even consistent, but if you have a string of airplanes going through a gap or deviating around something obvious, it will be the American 757 that wants an extra 20° for a hundred miles.
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Sep 5, 2018 00:37
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:What is the worst airspace to bust? A presidential TFR is pretty bad, mainly because a lot of eyes are going to be on you and also F-16(s). Restricted airspace is bad because a lot of those are for live fire; meaning things that will negatively impact your avionics. SaltPig fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 03:57
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MrYenko posted:That title belongs to American. It’s not even consistent, but if you have a string of airplanes going through a gap or deviating around something obvious, it will be the American 757 that wants an extra 20° for a hundred miles. This is correct in my experience as well. I swear that American has a keep clear of clouds policy.
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Sep 5, 2018 06:57
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hobbesmaster posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191 I understand "safety and efficiency" is the MO of the organization. Hell its emblazoned all over the walls here, which makes me wonder why the latter part is so hard to understand. The more direct question is though are they just making judgement calls from what they see out the window or are they deviating due to what they see on instruments? NEXRAD published to the public is typically 5min old due to the full scans. What is being provided to the glass is updated every tilt (exception of ZTL/ZDC) which can be 30seconds depending on the scanning strat.
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Sep 5, 2018 13:30
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If it's clear out, we deviate based on out the window. If we're IMC or at night, we deviate based on onboard radar. Roughly zero % of traffic deviates based on Nexrad. ("We" = general airline traffic) vessbot fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 14:42
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fknlo posted:This is correct in my experience as well. I swear that American has a keep clear of clouds policy. Clouds, especially those associated with thunderstorms, are bumpy. They also make it kind of hard to see outside, which can be a pain in the rear end if you're in an area with a lot of bad weather. If I think staying out of a cloud that I could easily fly through will give me a better ride or better visibility of better weather I'll definitely ask for deviation. The Ferret King posted:I imagine they get pretty hot in the Washington DC area over prohibited airspace busts. Presidential TFRs too. Busting P56 means you get to have an uncomfortable chat with about 4 different government agencies. Then you get yelled at by your own company. Which is pretty stupid because people bust it all the time and they still get super twitchy about it. "You put your wingtip 5 feet over the line because there was a stiff crosswind. Are you sure you're not actually a terrorist?" I mean, they put a prohibited area one mile directly off the end of a runway. What did they think was going to happen?
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Sep 8, 2018 18:30
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Calling “Traffic, one o’clock, two miles, maneuvering, altitude indicates six thousand, rapidly descending, flight of two P-51 Mustangs” never fails to get people’s attention. (Edited for her pleasure) MrYenko fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 22:02
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You're triggering my autism with that phraseology.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:39
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The Ferret King posted:You're triggering my autism with that phraseology. You’re right. I’d been drinking when I wrote that out. 
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Sep 11, 2018 11:42
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Good man
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Sep 11, 2018 16:35
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I had a ZLC controller call me the other day, legit angry, because I'd changed the 4th line in the data block from DL to DL/EKR before talking to the aircraft.  Why did you put EKR in his data block, I didn't clear him to that? It's the next fix on his route of flight. But I just cleared him to deviate left, I didn't give him EKR! It's the next fix on his route of flight. I DIDN'T CLEAR HIM TO EKR! It's the next fix on his route of flight.Dude just hung up after that. I told the CIC to expect a call but we didn't get one.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:20
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It's all Greek to this terminal controller. Oh, I work in Safety now at the central service center. I basically look at deals all day and listen to QA analysts discuss deals. It's kinda funny listening to people who have been out of the control room for 10+ years acting all astonished that human beings make the same sorta mistakes they would have certainly made or witnessed back when they controlled. But they'll never admit it.
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Sep 12, 2018 02:15
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Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't, but think they can, supervise.
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Sep 12, 2018 05:01
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No, the ones who can't, do all the time.
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Sep 12, 2018 13:49
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