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Grimoire posted:My pet peeve is the lack of water mechanics. It just seems loving weird for a space western base building sim to abstract away, at least have a thirst need, wells, and the like. Well this is a guy who wants his base building colony simulator to have an ending rather than just letting us take over the planet. Hey we've worked hard and turned our colony into a utopia. Time to leave. I don't know whether i'm in the majority or the minority but I really wanted Rimworld to become sci fi dwarf fortress with much better graphics and accessibility. It was not to be. Still a great game.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:06
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Regarde Aduck posted:Well this is a guy who wants his base building colony simulator to have an ending rather than just letting us take over the planet. Yeah, I want the same thing. The game is fun but it swings pretty far in the oversimplified direction. There's gotta be a good middle ground between right click to perform task and watch a 15 minute video to understand up/down stairs.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:22
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Regarde Aduck posted:I don't know whether i'm in the majority or the minority but I really wanted Rimworld to become sci fi dwarf fortress with much better graphics and accessibility. It was not to be. Still a great game. This is what everyone but Tynan wants 
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Aug 12, 2018 19:35
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Probably because he realized he bit off way more than he can chew and now wants to wrap poo poo up and move on to something that won’t actually overwhelm him.
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Aug 12, 2018 20:26
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There is the alternative "endgame" of wiping out all the pirate bases and eliminating their faction. They do stop raiding you in that case (though I think mechanoids just take their place)
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Aug 12, 2018 21:56
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ShadowHawk posted:There is the alternative "endgame" of wiping out all the pirate bases and eliminating their faction. They do stop raiding you in that case (though I think mechanoids just take their place) yes, if a raid is to happen but there's nobody who can plausibly do the raid, mechanoids do it instead.
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Aug 13, 2018 00:06
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which seems bad since mechanoids are a lot more annoying to deal with than raiders imo
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Aug 13, 2018 00:14
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they're vulnerable to different stupid tricks. it's definitely better if you want to stay on a planet functionally forever because you can stop thinking about entire classes of weapons and threats and focus on just one. you'll never have to sweat some rear end in a top hat with a doomsday launcher, for example. they also don't do sieges, though they do occasionally drop in drop pods. still, they suck enough at ranged combat that periodic gun turret bunkers will do an inordinate amount of damage to them, and the double-walled kill corridors i've posted a few times in this thread will kill an arbitrary number of them due to friendly fire so long as the turret is kept repaired; even if the barrel runs out the dumb fucks will still blast each other until there's only one left.
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Aug 13, 2018 00:23
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That's why you don't give ELIZA a gun. She'll kill you, and how does AAAAUGH make you feel?
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Aug 13, 2018 00:46
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Yeah I have to agree with the "too simple" criticism, I keep playing this game and I don't know why, once you've done it once you've seen literally everything. I added a bunch of mods to try and ramp up the complexity but it's still only like two problems to solve in pretty straightforward ways and then you beat the game. I guess I really just want to make an ice fortress with a lava moat and steel walls so maybe I need to go play dwarf fortress instead.
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Aug 13, 2018 01:05
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I play this game to watch my meeples interact so the simplicity of surviving isn't really a problem for me.
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Aug 13, 2018 01:09
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I play this game to watch my meeples interact so the simplicity of surviving isn't really a problem for me. 2.) Name and model starting people after yourself and people you know 3.) Have more fun
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Aug 13, 2018 02:41
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Tynan can barely handle the current level of complexity, so I'm not sure how I feel about wanting the game to be more complex.
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Aug 13, 2018 02:44
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Didn't he hire some of the modders to work for him?
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Aug 13, 2018 04:14
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Yeah but that doesn't reduce project complexity. On the contrary, it can make things more difficult.
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Aug 13, 2018 04:18
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enraged_camel posted:Probably because he realized he bit off way more than he can chew and now wants to wrap poo poo up and move on to something that won’t actually overwhelm him. I mean from the very start the game has been quite consistent about being played to completion in a fairly short time, and that's not a bad idea, it's just not what most people buying a colony management game tend to want. I think part of the conflict comes from if you compare it to say, surviving mars, where you also play it to completion in a race against time, but your objective is to develop the colony to a degree of sustainability as quickly as possible. In Rimworld the colony is an accessory to the goal of building a spaceship, or to travelling across the planet. I really think he's just averse to the idea of most colony management games where you just kind of play them until you get bored, he thinks the game should have an objective that can and should be reached in a reasonable amount of time, and that's not a bad thing, certainly not in a genre rather dominated by games that just kind of peter out into the player getting bored. But it is perhaps a little at odds with what many of the people playing are looking for. But I'd certainly argue that the lack of a decent concluding mechanic is a weakness of the genre and I can't blame him for wanting to try and correct it, and it's not poorly done, you use the colony to produce the things you need to finish the game, that fits in well with the rest of the game. If I was going to change anything about the game it would be adding in a pacification victory where you either make friends with or wipe out all the hostile sites in your vicinity, and build a long term solution to the mechanoid and insect threats, but it wouldn't fit with the scale of the other victory conditions at all so even then I can understand not wanting to put that in. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 04:19
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I play this game to watch my meeples interact so the simplicity of surviving isn't really a problem for me. That reminds me, did social interaction change significantly from 18 (or probably 17 when I last played)? I designed my bedrooms so that there'd be a number of double bed rooms, because in the past my pawns were hooking up constantly. In this latest playthrough that's just starting the third winter, I've had two hookups that both ended with a quick breakup. These guys all have synchronized social time and spent a ton of time in close quarters indoors during winter, but nothing. Maybe I got a bunch of goons. 
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Aug 13, 2018 04:23
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Maybe Tynan can just work on Rimworld 2 which is actually a colony builder remake of the 1992 strategy adventure game Dune.
Kiranamos fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 04:56
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I've never heard of this dune game and google gives me nothing ?
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Aug 13, 2018 06:55
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McGiggins posted:I've never heard of this dune game and google gives me nothing ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3NcFEvc4yk TLDW harvest spice, recruit people, and pay taxes to the emperor until you've had enough and raid all their poo poo
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Aug 13, 2018 07:43
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McGiggins posted:I've never heard of this dune game and google gives me nothing ? The sequel was the first RTS, prior to Warcraft and Command and Conquer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_II
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Aug 13, 2018 07:46
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dune 2000 was pretty good
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Aug 13, 2018 07:58
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for what it's worth i think yall are loving crazy and i am glad this game has a real end and real goals beyond "i dunno build a thing" i am further glad tynan has managed to keep the end in mind (mostly) throughout this project and we don't see some half-cocked imagination of whatever crap he's got in his brain this time. i've seen more than enough of those projects and i've seen more than enough of them poo poo all over themselves trying to tie all their poo poo together in a way where all of these systems make sense and are valuable. of all the ones i've seen try it only mount and blade warband and kenshi come remotely close and even then it's a real debate on how well they actually do on that. warband in particular has an entire loving dynamic economic system plotted out that NEVER MATTERS because only idiots waste their time trading in that game. solutions and designs are only as brilliant or as difficult as the problems they solve. if you present nothing but a bog standard blend of problems you will have one or two really good solutions and then that will be the end of that pretty much forever. we've all seen that happen in games before. rimworld ups the ante by providing an entire gamut of problems in the context of one larger problem, which makes each individual game exponentially more complex from a problem solving perspective than a game of banished, prison architect, tropico, simcity, and, yes, even dwarf fortress. i have standard designs that i show off in this thread but they are constantly broken down, retooled, refitted, and rethought on a per-game basis as circumstances and needs change. even my 2x2 block of housing, for example, will get double walled in cold biomes to save on heat loss. in DF only the most absolutely extreme environments will ever make me shift from my standard fortress design because the problem set never substantially changes. but at least in that game's case, the problem set has continued to grow as the feature set has. in a lot of these sorts of 'hey do a thing' games, the features outgrow the problem set. in this case, the game will continue to creep up in scope but fail to add any reason to interact with this new material beyond "uh explore a thing and make a new uh hat or something." don't starve together is the absolutely quintessential example of this one. those guys have been slowly adding new things to go explore and new monsters to interact with for literal years and there's zero point to ever bother because the game's fundamental problem is in the name. it is trivial to continue going and not starve with a bare minimum of gear and making a shitload of blingy bullshit is ultimately pointless. there's no incentive to fighting the big ogres they made because it is easier to set up three or four small waystations rather than one massive base and just up and loving leave if one gets too hot. you can come back next season after the big baddie has moved off. there is no reason to explore their caves or ruins or whatever because they do nothing to help you address the core problem of not starving. and stupidly, if they'd pull their heads out of their asses and give some sort of strategic goal to accomplish beyond "attain subsistence", a lot of this poo poo WOULD have merit. it has merit in the single player adventure because you have a real goal, real limitations as you work toward that goal, and real ways you can advantage yourself if you take larger risks up front. there are hundreds of games coming out just this year and if i really wanted a 'depths of my imagination' experience i'd go back to play one of the ten dozen that came out in the last few years. and then i'd write a book about the actual depths of my imagination, because let's face it no game is ever going to actually handle the entire depths of the human imagination so i might as well do something productive with mine. imo, if your game doesn't have a beginning, a middle, and a real end then get the hell off the stage to make room for someone who understands how scope works. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 08:45
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DST is a real good game. If you never felt the need to go beyond mere subsistence, that’s more of a problem on your part.
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Aug 13, 2018 09:10
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ah. so by that logic is it ok for me to high handedly dismiss your complaints about rimworld because clearly your desire to have it support a whatever different systems are in your head says a lot of vaguely negative things about you?
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Aug 13, 2018 09:27
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McGiggins posted:Perhaps some sort of rectal computer? I wanted to watch this but YouTube offered me 12s about Fancy Feast and I didn't make it through, despite being intrigued.
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Aug 13, 2018 09:59
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Glory to Italia!
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It's a proclick, my friend. Pretty much everything by Greasy Moose or Sexual Lobster is a proclick.
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Aug 13, 2018 10:07
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Coolguye posted:ah. so by that logic is it ok for me to high handedly dismiss your complaints about rimworld because clearly your desire to have it support a whatever different systems are in your head says a lot of vaguely negative things about you? I think he's trying to say the depth of the game is optional and accessible if you want to play the game as opposed to "win" it. I am generally on your side, despite the ad hominim attack. It's nice for all the gameplay elements to coalesce into an element of that overall challenge or goal, rather than being orthogonal to it. Dwarf Fortress will obviously solve all of that upon release.
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Aug 13, 2018 10:10
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The most fun run I've had through the game was creating a devastated hellworld with permanent nuclear fallout, permanent toxic fallout, no other factions, and the rogue planet mod which makes the world get progressively darker and colder. So there are definitely other ways to create reasons to leave besides the weird fixation on more raids
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Aug 13, 2018 10:43
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Crimson Harvest posted:Not sure but this is probably something like an orphaned configuration file giving out wrong X-Y coordinates for where to draw the game window. When the game's running click its icon in the task bar and try WindowsKey + Left Arrow (or right) a few taps to see if you can get it visible. I ended up getting it back by turning of scaling with my graphics card, then increasing the size of the narrow window it made and resetting it back to fullscreen. Not sure what screwed up there.
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Aug 13, 2018 12:34
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Rynoto posted:The most fun run I've had through the game was creating a devastated hellworld with permanent nuclear fallout, permanent toxic fallout, no other factions, and the rogue planet mod which makes the world get progressively darker and colder. I don't suppose you'd be willing to make that a workshop preset would you? That sounds like hella fun. I'd do it myself but I am faaaaar to probe to slanting things in my favor. If the only way you have of getting more people is the randomly joining event, it would make it quite atmospheric. Use what you got and do what you can with who you can to gtfo! Seems like the only game conditions under which I could find a desire to do the actual win conditions.
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Aug 13, 2018 12:53
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McGiggins posted:It's a proclick, my friend.
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Aug 13, 2018 13:14
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McGiggins posted:I don't suppose you'd be willing to make that a workshop preset would you? That sounds like hella fun. I'd do it myself but I am faaaaar to probe to slanting things in my favor. Seconding this. I tend to be in the "build until you get bored" crowd, but some kind of nasty poo poo like this might make a fun race against the clock (I actually loved the progressively worsening climate mechanic in Endless Legend). The discussion also got me thinking about the "hierarchy of needs" and how someone would implement that as a system in Rimworld. As far as long-term sustainability is concerned, Rimworld only really deals with the first two segments of the pyramid, and abstracts the remaining three with moods. Unpacking Love/Belonging, Esteem, and Self Actualization would be a heck of a design and coding challenge I imagine.
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Aug 13, 2018 13:19
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Coolguye posted:for what it's worth i think yall are loving crazy and i am glad this game has a real end and real goals beyond "i dunno build a thing" Yeah I think I broadly agree with this. You could make another open ended buildy game but we have a lot of them already, I think it's a better application of design effort to try and solve the lack of conclusion in the colony management genre than it is to just make dwarf fortress but simpler and with mouse controls.
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Aug 13, 2018 13:23
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McGiggins posted:I don't suppose you'd be willing to make that a workshop preset would you? That sounds like hella fun. I'd do it myself but I am faaaaar to probe to slanting things in my favor. Not sure it could be reasonably uploaded due to the mods required. Here's a quick list of where everything comes from at least. Nuclear/Radioactive Fallout: Rimatomics. Also a bunch of other fun stuff. Toxic Fallout: Vanilla Rogue Planet: Solar Apocalypse and Rogue Planet. Scroll down into the comments and get the B18 test version from the creator. No Factions: While all the others are just permanent game conditions this one is achieved through the mod options of Faction Control. Just turn all the factions down to zero and uncheck mechanoids. Highly suggest a few mods like fertile fields. The biggest challenge is food, closely followed by medical needs as people need to work outside. E: As a side note, rogue planet on its own is fantastic though does probably take a bit too long to be a true threat to any developed colony - especially with extensive mods. Rynoto fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 13:29
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The problem is Rimworld's end game objective doesn't feel like it meshes with the rest of the game. I guess the intended way to play is not to build a nice base, but only something that can get you the research and gear and supplies you need to travel across the planet ASAP? If the last several hours I put into building this nice base was going to help me reach the end game objective I might be more inclined to try it, but it doesn't really. Admittedly I've never even tried to leave the planet, and I tend to be in the build till you get bored crowd as well, so I could be way off base here, but that's how the "end game" always felt to me.
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Aug 13, 2018 20:26
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It doesn't directly help, I think it's more of a playstyle thing, you can churn through people and stuff to just build a drat ship, or you can go at it slower and build a better place with happier people which work towards the end goal slower.
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Aug 13, 2018 20:36
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yeah, the end goals are eventually made necessary by the pressures the game puts on you intensifying - there's no ASAP really required, and frequently trying to rush things is strictly worse than taking your time to do something right. it requires a fair bit of thought and planning to tackle the problems you're given effectively and it behooves you to not short circuit that process. a good example is clothing, if you are going to make the hike to the ship. there can be a lot of wisdom in waiting an extra year to finish clothing people for the road ahead rather than trying to make do with some poo poo you can get right now. i certainly would not feel comfortable hitting the road with anything less than devilstrand long button downs and pants on everyone, plus appropriate outerwear in whatever is appropriate for the road ahead - including a change in outerwear if required. then i'd also very seriously be thinking about armor vests for everyone, and power armor helmets would also definitely be on my hit list. you could go asap by just using cotton on everything, but that is a great way to get your poo poo kicked in halfway down the road, even with the overall reduced difficulty of the earlier trip.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:29
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How do you set your world to have horrifying conditions like permanent fallout, and how does this affect NPC factions?
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Aug 13, 2018 22:55
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Anticheese posted:How do you set your world to have horrifying conditions like permanent fallout, and how does this affect NPC factions? you use the scenario creator while creating a new game, and it doesn't affect them outside of your map. it'll start affecting them once they arrive on your map, however, so a trade caravan that hangs around outside for too long may find themselves choking on the air and falling over to die under a pale green sky.
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Aug 13, 2018 23:00
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