|
SCOTUS is garbage
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2018 13:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 07:28 |
|
|
That too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2018 14:55
|
|
|
I think it's fair to say that in a non-poo poo system you SHOULDN'T need literal years of schooling to get anywhere in the court system, but in the trash fire we have you currently do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 05:16
|
|
|
How white trash is it of me to watch "Courtroom outburst" compilations on YouTube? Because that poo poo is entertaining.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 13:21
|
|
|
Javid posted:I think it's fair to say that in a non-poo poo system you SHOULDN'T need literal years of schooling to get anywhere in the court system, but in the trash fire we have you currently do. It’s not fair to say I can’t conceive of a society where that would be the case which isn’t a authoritarian dictatorship with mere show trials. Even they usually have lawyers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 13:28
|
|
|
euphronius posted:It’s not fair to say Judge Judy's Circuit Court Next week we'll hear the case of Braen v. Pfeifer Oil Transportation Company, Inc! Petitioner, a mate on respondent's barge, was ordered to do some carpentry work on a raft used to facilitate chipping, painting, and welding on respondent's vessels, but which was not being used at the time to repair the barge on which petitioner was mate. While on a catwalk used to board or leave the barge, and while attempting to move the raft into position for boarding preparatory to carrying out this order, petitioner was injured when the catwalk gave way. Question - was he injured while acting "in the course of his employment," and is he entitled to recover from respondent under the Jones Act. Pp. 361 U. S. 129-133. Tune in next week to find out!
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 14:19
|
|
|
euphronius posted:It’s not fair to say The Roman Republic. Anyone can practice law and you get the full range from 'lifetime professional' to 'young noble deciding to do a couple of court cases to get famous'.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 14:34
|
|
|
That was an accident because the skills (Greek rhetoric) taught to aristocrats at the time lined up with courtroom skills They were all lawyers by training essentially. If you were as talented and well educated as Julius Caesar then yes you may have some success prosecuting cases. euphronius fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 14:38
|
|
|
euphronius posted:If you were as talented and well educated as Julius Caesar then yes you may have some success prosecuting cases. Isn’t every pro se?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 14:57
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:Isn’t every pro se? the average person today is far better educated than the Romans. no one should be afraid to represent themself
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 15:01
|
|
|
euphronius posted:That was an accident because the skills (Greek rhetoric) taught to aristocrats at the time lined up with courtroom skills Martial posted:My suit has nothing to do with assault, or battery, or poisoning, but is about three goats, which, I complain, have been stolen by my neighbour. This the judge desires to have proved to him; but you, with swelling words and extravagant gestures, dilate on the Battle of Cannae, the Mithridatic war, and the perjuries of the insensate Carthaginians, the Sullae, the Marii, and the Mucii. It is time, Postumus, to say something about my three goats.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
euphronius posted:That was an accident because the skills (Greek rhetoric) taught to aristocrats at the time lined up with courtroom skills Theoretically, if our schools actually taught critical thinking and logical analysis, and a basic course or two in legal history, then . . . . In practice though I think our current legal system is much more "specialized" than the Roman legal system was; Roman judges also did not necessarily have legal training. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_law
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 15:12
|
|
|
Rhetoric is what would need to be taught. Critical thinking and logical analysis are also important too. Rhetoric is the big one tho . (Adding parenthetically that courtroom presentation and persuasion is a minor part of being a modern trial lawyer and a minuscule part of being a lawyer in general) euphronius fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 15:18
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Rhetoric is what would need to be taught. Critical thinking and logical analysis are also important too. Rhetoric is the big one tho . Eh, these days if you're actually in a trial in a courtroom someone has hosed up very badly (either on one side or the other). I guess if you're talking about being a criminal prosecutor specifically I'll grant the point. For everyone else, all you really need most of the time is a quality liberal arts education (i.e., be able to write a clear, persuasive, and logically valid essay or letter) and the resources (financial, mental, emotional) to get through the hazing rituals of law school and the bar exam. Of course that all goes out the window if you're emotionally involved in the case (which pro se's always are). EDIT: euphronius posted:
it's like I was reading your mind
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 15:30
|
|
|
Also no doubt Cicero and JC had dozens of Greek slaves to help them with the motion work and business side of being s Roman lawyer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 15:33
|
|
|
echopapa posted:Martial posted: Judge Ellis?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 16:03
|
|
|
I had a dream that I was in front of judge Judy on a plea to the jurisdiction asserting sovereign immunity. I couldn't believe my client would agree to binding arbitration on tv when I could just get the case bounced.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Also no doubt Cicero and JC had dozens of Greek slaves to help them with the motion work and business side of being s Roman lawyer. So basically the same situation as American partners except for the words 'Greek' and 'Roman'
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
The suit is dismissed for failure to state a claim. We grant the defendant's anti-SLAPP motion and award him attorney's fees as required by statute. Being Pro se in Big Boy Court would be terrifying.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 16:37
|
|
|
Devor posted:The suit is dismissed for failure to state a claim. We grant the defendant's anti-SLAPP motion and award him attorney's fees as required by statute. hahaha Phil Moscowitz fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Aug 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 16:41
|
|
|
eke out posted:the average person today is far better educated than the Romans. no one should be afraid to represent themself Not representing yourself has nothing to do with knowledge or Ability (Ok. Maybe a little) and everything to do with being too emotionally close to the problem. I would never represent myself in anything higher stakes than small claims or traffic court. I can do math. I still hire an accountant for my taxes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 16:44
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Also no doubt Cicero and JC had dozens of Greek slaves to help them with the motion work and business side of being s Roman lawyer. New from the minds who brought you Better Call Saul...
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:New from the minds who brought you Better Call Saul... I’d watch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 17:35
|
|
|
my only time actually being a lawyer was representing my wife in traffic court i "won"
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 17:40
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:New from the minds who brought you Better Call Saul... Better Call Gaul
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
I got a letter from Judge Judy's producers once asking if my client wanted to have her case on their show. It was in a small claims Court in Texas so I have no idea how they found it. I guess they troll small claims courts in big counties looking for cases.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 17:49
|
|
|
homullus posted:Better Call Gaul Hot drat!
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 17:50
|
|
|
homullus posted:Better Call Gaul *dies*
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 17:58
|
|
|
homullus posted:Better Call Gaul 
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:23
|
|
|
This is embarrassing. And I hope it's so minor that I get told to just ignore it. But I'm such a goody goody that I've never had anything like this happen before so I'd appreciate some perspective. So last week I was walking back to work from lunch & saw a car do a fairly dangerous turn. It was an illegal left turn from a 5-way stop with a red light across oncoming traffic that had the right of way. All the things. The guy who did it parked his car along my walking route, so as I passed by I said to him, "Hey, that was kind of a dick move back in that intersection." The guy I spoke to didn't enjoy my criticism. He joined me on the sidewalk and we walked together for about a block discussing. He got more and more agitated until he was in my face. I insulted him and he started threatening me and he gave me a push. I smacked him in the face. Not hard, I was wearing sandals and was flat footed and barely made contact. I didn't even use a fist, it was just a palm to face get out of my face kinda thing. He took a swing at me and missed, then backed up. I made motions like I wanted to calm things down and told him to hold up. He came at me again and knocked my hat (branded with where I work) off my head. Then that was the end of it, we parted ways. I was so shaken up and ashamed (ex- haven't been in a fight since like grade school) that I walked home instead of work and changed my clothes and walked side streets back to work. (I'd been watching The Americans the night before, so spy poo poo is the first place my brain went). The guy's aggression seriously unnerved me & I both live and work in this hood, so I'm around a lot, and didn't want him deciding he wanted another crack at me. A few days later, the president of the company came up and asked if I'd been in some sort of dustup with a guy. The guy emailed our company and said he'd followed me back to work and saw where it was. And he said I'd messed up his car in some way. The president didn't say what exactly, but he mentioned like scratches and mirrors and maybe rear lights. I'm not sure what all he's claiming. I don't really remember what kind of car he had, all I remember was that it was kinda old and red. I'm not sure when he thinks I had time to mess up his car if he watched me walk back to work, but that's his accusation. Long story short, minor fisticuffs with a dude on the street. No one even remotely injured. Guy tracks me down and emails company and makes up some poo poo about his car being damaged and wants someone to pay. Do I need to do anything? I've obviously already spoken to the president. I offered my personal email address to the guy in order to try to disentangle it from the company. He declined and said it likely wasn't a big deal. But Oregon is also an at-will state so I could easily be let go if the guy creates enough of a fuss that the company decides to protect itself. This happened at lunch, but I am salaried and was wearing company branded gear. He seems like he might be the kind of guy who won't let things go too. Is there anything I should be doing? Do I even need to worry?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:33
|
|
|
Fender posted:This is embarrassing. And I hope it's so minor that I get told to just ignore it. But I'm such a goody goody that I've never had anything like this happen before so I'd appreciate some perspective. Assuming everything you're saying is true, I don't think you need to worry about the fight itself since the first physical escalation was him pushing you, but obviously I would be 100% honest with your employer and cooperate with them. You are salaried so I assume your hat doesn't say "Subway" or whatever, so presumably you are in a better position than a totally replaceable scrub. Are there any surveillance video cameras around where this happened? If so and you truly think they would support you, I would go to the businesses and ask them politely if they still have the video and can let you get a copy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:49
|
|
|
Thats loving wild. You were assaulted, to which the appropriate response would be to call the police as well. I'll bet the dude has priors, and an anger management problem, too. edit: Imagine being so loving jacked up that 1. you cut across traffic on an illegal turn, 2. you get mad when someone calls you on it, 3. you're so angry you loving track the person down and assault them over it, 4. you're so loving put out that someone stood up to you that you drop whatever you're doing, find out where they work, cart your rear end down there and start raising hell there. What a psycho. Double Ninja Edit: I'm leaning more and more toward's calling the police and making a police report, stat. Its also a crime to try and extort money from a business, and he'll seem extra triple insane by claiming you were able to damage his car while you were walking on the sidewalk. blarzgh fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 22:44
|
|
|
Phil Moscowitz posted:Assuming everything you're saying is true, I don't think you need to worry about the fight itself since the first physical escalation was him pushing you, but obviously I would be 100% honest with your employer and cooperate with them. You are salaried so I assume your hat doesn't say "Subway" or whatever, so presumably you are in a better position than a totally replaceable scrub. Are there any surveillance video cameras around where this happened? If so and you truly think they would support you, I would go to the businesses and ask them politely if they still have the video and can let you get a copy. No cameras that I could see. There was one for an apartment building there, but it's not pointed in that direction. There were other people on the street though. He also parked pretty close to a bar that has outdoor seating. I'm pretty sure someone would have made a note if they saw me going to town on this dude's car. He's not going to find any witnesses for whatever he's on about his car. I think he's kinda fudging the details to make things sound less crazy for him. Like, I doubt he followed me back to work. I took a winding path along a bunch of side streets. I think he remembered what was on my hat, looked us up, drove down, and sat in his car until he saw me. As far as the fight itself, from my end it seems like something that should just be forgotten. No one got hurt. It was beyond stupid and really had nothing to do with his bad turn. It was more about it being really hot and him being a giant rear end in a top hat. I'm no angel here either, after things devolved beyond barely polite discussion I was just as mean as he was. But he was a fair bit bigger than me & thought he could intimidate & shove his way to some sort of dominance victory. I have no idea why he's still going. He could be fragile enough that he looked at his car, decided some unnoticed old ding was clearly my doing, and totally believes that I messed with his poo poo. If there is no clear legal jeopardy or obligation here, I just want to ignore the guy. The less I have to do with him the better. EDIT: I walked back down to the place where it went down & took a bunch of pictures. I also scoped out the camera situation and there isn't anything covering the area. I called the apartment complex, but the guy I spoke to said the camera doesn't cover where I think his car was parked. Our company keeps an expensive lawyer on staff. I might go chat with him tomorrow and see what his advice is. Right now it's just some buffoon beating his chest. If I go file a report it's a real thing with a record that needs to be resolved. I'd much rather be anonymous. Fender fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Aug 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
that dude got torched at the bar, hosed his car up when leaving, and decided to try to shake down the first salaryman he could remember
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 00:05
|
|
|
Dude is loving with your job after he assaulted you. Call the police if for nothing else to cover your own rear end. Hell of a lot easier to save your job when you have a restraining order or something from going psycho. Assuming your end of the story is accurate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 00:19
|
|
|
Yeah, get a documentation trail going if nothing else as a general CYA. He's clearly not gonna let it be - and probably is gonna harass you via giving your personal email as well so watch for that too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 01:17
|
|
|
There's also a decent chance this guy won't just let it drop. If he's the kind of rear end in a top hat I suspect he is he could very well keep pushing matters just out of spite. Do you have any text messages or emails you sent anyone about these events?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 02:26
|
|
|
Public defender tip: In a situation like this always call the cops when it happens. Not to get him in trouble, but defensively. In misdo land, and to a large degree in felony land, the first to the phone almost always wins. You should have called the cops the moment hi assaulted you. This is not because you're weak or anything, but to protect against legal consequences. I haven't decided if this will be as effective weeks later.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 02:57
|
|
|
Also because there’s a pretty good chance the cops are already interested in talking to him for different reasons (which if he went to the trouble of calling your employer but did not call the police, pretty much 100% it’s because he doesn’t want to talk to the police).
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 12:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 07:28 |
|
|
Do not call the cops if the person is a visible minority.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 12:37
|
|