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My mom insists that The Heat was good, but one of our major disagreements is about how I hate Sandra Bullock, so.....
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Aug 13, 2018 18:35
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21 Muns posted:Bit of a sidetrack, here, but I rewatched WFRR recently and... it sure didn't seem to me that this was the case. I loved WFRR as a kid, but I'm pretty sure that it was mostly for the spectacle, and that I had only a tenuous grasp of what was going on. WFRR doesn't just have jokes for the adults, it has major plot points for the adults. If you only have a kid-level understanding of the world, you're missing huge parts of the movie. I know that a lot of kids watched it back when it came out, and that it wouldn't have been profitable if they hadn't. But I would still be hard-pressed to call it "aimed at kids", or call its sexual and historical elements "jokes included as bonuses to adults" - y'know, as if they were comparable to the Genie's impressions of obscure old celebrities or to Shrek cracking innuendos that could ambiguously refer to penis size. This. I don't think a movie heavily steeped in film noir tropes (including murder, a femme fatale, cartoon infidelity, and a missing will) and a plot that is basically Chinatown by way of the General Motors streetcar conspiracy legend can be said to be "for kids". Compare Rango which also had some of those dark elements and adult geared shoutouts (and a plot that is revealed to be essentially Chinatown) yet didn't go nearly as far. AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 18:38
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Casimir Radon posted:My mom insists that The Heat was good, but one of our major disagreements is about how I hate Sandra Bullock, so..... Should just watch Heat instead
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Aug 13, 2018 18:39
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Iron Crowned posted:Should just watch Heat instead
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Aug 13, 2018 18:42
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AceOfFlames posted:This. I don't think a movie heavily steeped in film noir tropes (including murder, a femme fatale, cartoon infidelity, and a missing will) and a plot that is basically Chinatown by way of the General Motors streetcar conspiracy legend can be said to be "for kids". Compare Rango which also had some of those dark elements and adult geared shoutouts (and a plot that is revealed to be essentially Chinatown) yet didn't go nearly as far. I certainly didn't understand what the "patty cake" scene meant when I was a kid
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Aug 13, 2018 18:53
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Pablo Nergigante posted:I certainly didn't understand what the "patty cake" scene meant when I was a kid There is a lot in Roger Rabbit that's utterly horrifying to me when I remember that I watched it as a five-year-old. The "patty cake" thing, obviously, Eddie being a raging alcoholic, the execution of toons, much of Benny's dialogue ... etc.
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Aug 13, 2018 19:00
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Pablo Nergigante posted:I certainly didn't understand what the "patty cake" scene meant when I was a kid And, just to be clear, this isn't a quick joke or anything: it's critical to the inciting incident of the film.
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Aug 13, 2018 19:04
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Casimir Radon posted:My mom insists that The Heat was good, but one of our major disagreements is about how I hate Sandra Bullock, so..... You monster
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Aug 13, 2018 19:06
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21 Muns posted:And, just to be clear, this isn't a quick joke or anything: it's critical to the inciting incident of the film. Yeah it's literally Roger's motive for being the chief suspect in Acme's murder and it's a joke about his cartoon wife loving another dude
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Aug 13, 2018 19:17
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AceOfFlames posted:This. I don't think a movie heavily steeped in film noir tropes (including murder, a femme fatale, cartoon infidelity, and a missing will) and a plot that is basically Chinatown by way of the General Motors streetcar conspiracy legend can be said to be "for kids". Compare Rango which also had some of those dark elements and adult geared shoutouts (and a plot that is revealed to be essentially Chinatown) yet didn't go nearly as far. It honestly is pretty cool it got made and adults are definitely the target audience. I do think though that there is enough cartoon antics though, for kids to get it. And kids aren't dumb and while I didn't get the subtleties, it's a base enough story to follow. Throw in the fact that this was one of the first times that Disney and Warner crossed over and there was enough spectacle for me to love it (although I didn't love it as much as my stepdad). (also Noir is often an element parodied in screwball kids cartoons, from like classic Daffy Duck to Teen Titans, they all occasionally do Noirish episodes).
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Aug 13, 2018 19:41
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Hey, fair enough - it was one of my favourite movies ever when I was a kid so I've always thought of it as a kids' movie. 
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Aug 13, 2018 19:57
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At one point in the script writing process, Judge Doom was going to be revealed as the hunter that shot Bambi's mom.
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Aug 13, 2018 19:58
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https://twitter.com/enews/status/1029046516885975041
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Aug 13, 2018 20:14
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The best noir parody is The Big Lebowski
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Aug 13, 2018 20:22
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At this point I feel like there’s something disturbing about being repackaged nostalgia and sold in a new wrapper both from a creative/manufacturing standpoint and from the consumer standpoint. Like all you wanna do is to exist in a moment of time rehashing the same poo poo you experienced to recapture some, what, lost feeling versus tread new ground? You want to exist in that comforting moment of time all the time?
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Aug 13, 2018 20:23
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Gatts posted:At this point I feel like there’s something disturbing about being repackaged nostalgia and sold in a new wrapper both from a creative/manufacturing standpoint and from the consumer standpoint. It's really bad. But then again the world is hopeless and there is no real reason to live in it, not really, so I get blanketing yourself in memories of simpler time.
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Aug 13, 2018 20:58
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The Saddest Rhino posted:https://twitter.com/NoChorus/status/1028367700941303808 this is my fav https://twitter.com/NoChorus/status/1028383145291202560
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Aug 13, 2018 21:07
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Gatts posted:At this point I feel like there’s something disturbing about being repackaged nostalgia and sold in a new wrapper both from a creative/manufacturing standpoint and from the consumer standpoint. Counterpoint, if it's a good story, why not explore the material in other mediums?
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Aug 13, 2018 21:19
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At what point do audiences get tired of these soulless recreations? I'm sure Yifei Liu will do as good a job as she can, but I find these movies exhausting. This is cute. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 22:06
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Sucrose posted:Counterpoint, if it's a good story, why not explore the material in other mediums? A remake like the recent Robocop makes more sense to me because it brought a different view, angle, and presented something separate enough from the original source than telling the same story almost exactly the same way but with live people instead. I get what you mean though. Like having a movie and then exploring it through a video game and expanding on it would be cool but we don't get that yet. Closest we get is novels to movies but novels allow for more exploration unless someone has the guts to make a great film, and then it'll be poo poo on by fans. EDIT: I think novels and comic books have had their potential as a medium explored more thoroughly than movies, animation, or games. And I think there's potential in games to be the greatest medium but can require a lot of investment to explore. Each has their own thing, but games brings it all with personal input. Gatts fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 22:58
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Gatts posted:I get what you mean though. Like having a movie and then exploring it through a video game and expanding on it would be cool but we don't get that yet. Closest we get is novels to movies but novels allow for more exploration unless someone has the guts to make a great film, and then it'll be poo poo on by fans. Whatever your opinion on their quality, The Marvel movies are way different than the comics, but comics fans tend to love the hell out of them.
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Aug 13, 2018 23:09
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As I recall, the film adaptation of L.A. Confidential is quite different from the novel (the whole Rolo Tomassi subplot was invented by Brian Helgeland and Curtis Hanson for example) and it's great.
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Aug 13, 2018 23:17
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Wheat Loaf posted:As I recall, the film adaptation of L.A. Confidential is quite different from the novel (the whole Rolo Tomassi subplot was invented by Brian Helgeland and Curtis Hanson for example) and it's great.
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Aug 13, 2018 23:22
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galagazombie posted:Whatever your opinion on their quality, The Marvel movies are way different than the comics, but comics fans tend to love the hell out of them. Comics, at least, have different "runs" or releases of a character or group of characters that can have wildly different themes and portrayals, so an adaptation into film doesn't usually feel to different from that. You've got a dozen different versions Superman and a dozen more of Batman just in the comics, some or all of whom exist simultaneously, so a movie version is just one more for the pile. Generally with a novel, there's pretty much just the one definitive example.
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Aug 14, 2018 00:45
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QuoProQuid posted:At what point do audiences get tired of these soulless recreations? I'm sure Yifei Liu will do as good a job as she can, but I find these movies exhausting. The news stories I've seen about this are all slightly terrifying in the unity of their tone. This is apparently bad rear end, empowering, awesome, important and a really really big deal in cinema history. Now I know that the attention grabbing exaggerated headline is a thing but holy poo poo it's one promo picture people. It's great that they're moving towards better representation but the PR machine for these films is pretty much self perpetuating at this point.
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Aug 14, 2018 01:15
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I just hope to see some sweet sword fights.
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Aug 14, 2018 01:20
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J33uk posted:The news stories I've seen about this are all slightly terrifying in the unity of their tone. This is apparently bad rear end, empowering, awesome, important and a really really big deal in cinema history. Now I know that the attention grabbing exaggerated headline is a thing but holy poo poo it's one promo picture people. It's great that they're moving towards better representation but the PR machine for these films is pretty much self perpetuating at this point. The hate clicks they get are just as valuable as sincere ones. If people spent as much time actually watching and discussing actual new and unique films as they did complaining about how mindless and creatively bankrupt blockbusters (which they still totally follow every step of development and then go see anyways) are year in and year out it would do way more good than the cinematic equivalent of calling Donald Trump "Drumpf".
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Aug 14, 2018 01:37
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Timby posted:The Happytime Murders looks absolutely, unbelievably terrible and I have no idea what the gently caress Brian Henson is doing with it. I'm still glad it's there and I hope my moviepass holds til then If it bombs let's not act like it'd be the first Henson joint to do so
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Aug 14, 2018 03:50
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Timby posted:The Happytime Murders looks absolutely, unbelievably terrible and I have no idea what the gently caress Brian Henson is doing with it. It looks like the most infuriating kind of bad, which is where there is a genuinely good premise there, but nobody producing it seems to be up to the challenge of maximizing its potential.
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Aug 14, 2018 04:01
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Fart City posted:It looks like the most infuriating kind of bad, which is where there is a genuinely good premise there, but nobody producing it seems to be up to the challenge of maximizing its potential. I kind of wonder what the movie could have been if it had been something in the "cop investigates a community as an outsider" genre like Witness (the Amish), Cruising ('70s-'80s gay underground), A Stranger Among Us (Hasidic Jews), or Black Rain (Japan). Have the lead just play it as a straight cop thriller along those lines, but surround them with goofy Muppet poo poo.
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Aug 14, 2018 04:09
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Young Freud posted:I kind of wonder what the movie could have been if it had been something in the "cop investigates a community as an outsider" genre like Witness (the Amish), Cruising ('70s-'80s gay underground), A Stranger Among Us (Hasidic Jews), or Black Rain (Japan). Have the lead just play it as a straight cop thriller along those lines, but surround them with goofy Muppet poo poo. Wasn’t this pretty much the original pitch, back before McCarthy was involved?
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Aug 14, 2018 04:35
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J33uk posted:The news stories I've seen about this are all slightly terrifying in the unity of their tone. This is apparently bad rear end, empowering, awesome, important and a really really big deal in cinema history. Now I know that the attention grabbing exaggerated headline is a thing but holy poo poo it's one promo picture people. It's great that they're moving towards better representation but the PR machine for these films is pretty much self perpetuating at this point. It's neat but Liu Yifei looks just like she does in every other movie I've seen her in, except this time she probably won't be a fox spirit unless they really change things Tars Tarkas fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Aug 14, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2018 04:39
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Wasn’t this pretty much the original pitch, back before McCarthy was involved? ppl say that but i don't know if the writer's trackrecord is so strong/different to think they radically changed it
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Aug 14, 2018 04:49
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"representation" is such an interesting word to use specifically when discussing Chinese actors, given that China is one of the most powerful forces that drives a film's box office gross e: in response to J33uk posted:The news stories I've seen about this are all slightly terrifying in the unity of their tone. This is apparently bad rear end, empowering, awesome, important and a really really big deal in cinema history. Now I know that the attention grabbing exaggerated headline is a thing but holy poo poo it's one promo picture people. It's great that they're moving towards better representation but the PR machine for these films is pretty much self perpetuating at this point.
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Aug 14, 2018 05:00
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I remember there being cynicism and general leeriness towards Chinese-targeted cinema, basically seeing it as one step forward, two steps back, as China's government won't allow explicit pro-LBGT themes, among other things.
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Aug 14, 2018 06:53
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I remember there being cynicism and general leeriness towards Chinese-targeted cinema, basically seeing it as one step forward, two steps back, as China's government won't allow explicit pro-LBGT themes, among other things.
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Aug 14, 2018 07:21
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The other aspect about the representation debate is that it's about (in this case) Chinese - Americans getting recognised as part of US culture, by having this huge US cultural institution (Disney) make a story about Chinese people. It is that recognition and acknowledgment that is the significant aspect here, not so much the fact that there's already a big cinema industry within China making films about chinese people. It's the same issue that showed up in the Ghost in the Shell adaption, where when Japanese people in Japan ( including the creator of GITS) were asked about representation and not casting a Japanese actress as the lead, a lot of them didn't really mind. A major part of the representation issue is that western media often excludes and ignores the various minority populations within western countries. It's that neglect/sidelining that is often as much of an issue as the other issue, which is that some minority groups (native American peoples for example) have barely any media representation of any kind.
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Aug 14, 2018 07:23
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QuoProQuid posted:At what point do audiences get tired of these soulless recreations? I'm sure Yifei Liu will do as good a job as she can, but I find these movies exhausting. Maybe US vice president will cash in on a chance to get back into movie blogging
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Aug 14, 2018 08:15
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Red Bones posted:The other aspect about the representation debate is that it's about (in this case) Chinese - Americans getting recognised as part of US culture, by having this huge US cultural institution (Disney) make a story about Chinese people. It is that recognition and acknowledgment that is the significant aspect here, not so much the fact that there's already a big cinema industry within China making films about chinese people. "This big ruthless company made a movie with some people that look like me to sell more of their cheap plastic stuff made by underpaid people looking like me!" is a pretty hosed up standard for recognition and acknowledgement though.
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Aug 14, 2018 08:38
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Decius posted:"This big ruthless company made a movie with some people that look like me to sell more of their cheap plastic stuff made by underpaid people looking like me!" is a pretty hosed up standard for recognition and acknowledgement though. I'm just presenting the arguments as I understand them, honestly, it's not an issue I'm personally involved in so I can't really comment on whether this kind of representation is 'worthwhile' or not. I'm sure there are some people within those minority communities who don''t care, and some who do, and some who acknowledge that Disney is pretty hosed up as a company but the increase in acceptance for minority groups is worth the trade-off. Being recognised by any individual company is not so important as a change in how the underlying culture of a society conceptualises the group seeking better representation; being depicted in media produced by companies is just one avenue through which this societal change comes about. I have friends here in Europe who are or are the children of immigrants from other parts of the world, and one of the things that they mention is that things like who is modelling the clothes in the window of a clothing shop, or what kind of faces appear in adverts on TV, all build up a cultural image of what "people within this society" look and act like. So living in that society and not being included in that depiction is an isolating experience, even though it's often adverts from unethical companies. You grow up in a society, you are on some level part of that society, but the image that society creates of its members does not include you.
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Aug 14, 2018 09:06
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