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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:I figured this is why they used ketamine while getting those kids out of the cave. I'd certainly want to be knocked out in a situation like that. Although it seems to come with a few side effects... Man this almost sounds like a deliriant than a dissociative. Scary poo poo. I've never touched ketamine but I've done enough diphenhydramine to see poo poo crawl across the floor as well as dead people and I have no interest whatsoever in revisiting that feeling.
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Aug 14, 2018 06:08
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:please read the linked article we're responding to for information on the way the ems in question is using ketamine for chemical restraint, thanks. Oh yeah I have. I was just trying to give a rough outline of how sedation is used in my service for people who have been arrested as opposed to what goes on in the article and in regards to you saying that you dont like the idea of sedating arrested people. Also that cops are usually more keen for it then paramedics are.
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Aug 14, 2018 08:38
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I'd take the Ketamine over a restraint chair. Restraint chairs by themselves aren't dangerous but cops sure make them that way. A while back at the local detention center they strapped a dude down and left him. The straps and cuffs cut into his wrists/forearms and when they finally checked on him he was well on his way to bleeding out. There are lots of cases where restraint chairs are misused and they honestly have no place in law enforcement because cops can't use them properly. Like say, pepper spraying someone, putting a spit hood over their head, and then spraying them again: Wikipedia article on restraint chairs posted:In March 2009, a Florida man was pepper sprayed multiple times then placed in a restraint chair in a Lee County jail. After being strapped in, a spit hood was placed over his head. He was then pepper sprayed twice more and left in the chair for a further six hours. He died in hospital.
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Aug 14, 2018 10:59
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Milo and POTUS posted:Man this almost sounds like a deliriant than a dissociative. Scary poo poo. I've never touched ketamine but I've done enough diphenhydramine to see poo poo crawl across the floor as well as dead people and I have no interest whatsoever in revisiting that feeling. It’s a tranquilizer that also works as a euphoric hallucinogenic. I’ve never had a bad trip on it personally but I don’t know if there’s different types
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Aug 14, 2018 13:24
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More like a derailiant
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Aug 14, 2018 14:41
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ACAB
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Aug 14, 2018 16:16
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What the gently caress would cause you to pepper spray someone twice if they're strapped to a chair with a bag over their head? God drat, abolish police.
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Aug 14, 2018 18:30
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Brawnfire posted:What the gently caress would cause you to pepper spray someone twice if they're strapped to a chair with a bag over their head? God drat, abolish police. spite
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Aug 14, 2018 18:38
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Same reason you club them in the back of their head with your baton after their limp body falls out of their spinning car.
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Aug 14, 2018 20:36
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Brawnfire posted:What the gently caress would cause you to pepper spray someone twice if they're strapped to a chair with a bag over their head? God drat, abolish police. Because they can.
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Aug 14, 2018 20:40
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Gives them that special south-western kick. Pairs well with a big buttery slab of garlic bread and an ice cold red ale.
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Aug 14, 2018 23:46
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Untrustable posted:I'd take the Ketamine over a restraint chair. Restraint chairs by themselves aren't dangerous but cops sure make them that way. A while back at the local detention center they strapped a dude down and left him. The straps and cuffs cut into his wrists/forearms and when they finally checked on him he was well on his way to bleeding out. There are lots of cases where restraint chairs are misused and they honestly have no place in law enforcement because cops can't use them properly. It's cool that cops and doctors are there to literally torture you lmao Brawnfire posted:What the gently caress would cause you to pepper spray someone twice if they're strapped to a chair with a bag over their head? God drat, abolish police. I was going to answer your first sentence, but then your second sentence did
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Aug 15, 2018 00:11
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ACAB especially American cops and it's pretty disturbing that a ton of folk think people dying in jail is fine because 'they were criminals anyway'
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Aug 15, 2018 00:26
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Kitfox88 posted:ACAB especially American cops and it's pretty disturbing that a ton of folk think people dying in jail is fine because 'they were criminals anyway' Even innocent people who die, I still here "well they were guilty of something." They cannot admit that cops are human and fallible, not magic justice machines. It is incompatible to their worldview. Yes, I am related to people who die hard believe the Just World Fallacy, even though it 100% contradicts their lived experience.
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Aug 15, 2018 01:15
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Aleph Null posted:Even innocent people who die, I still here "well they were guilty of something." They cannot admit that cops are human and fallible, not magic justice machines. It is incompatible to their worldview. It genuinely baffles me how often people say "well he must have done something to deserve it" whenever yet another video of a cop shooting a black man in the back repeatedly comes out. Even if literally the entire encounter is recorded from multiple angles and it clearly shows the police officer using deadly force with absolutely no justification whatsoever (you know, literal loving murder) you'll still have people saying "well he must have done something to deserve that."
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Aug 15, 2018 01:23
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Running from the police is an immediate death sentence. The price of freedom. Fair and just.
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Aug 15, 2018 01:31
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It genuinely baffles me how often people say "well he must have done something to deserve it" whenever yet another video of a cop shooting a black man in the back repeatedly comes out. Even if literally the entire encounter is recorded from multiple angles and it clearly shows the police officer using deadly force with absolutely no justification whatsoever (you know, literal loving murder) you'll still have people saying "well he must have done something to deserve that." The thing they aren't saying is that the thing he did was dare to be black.
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Aug 15, 2018 01:31
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Brawnfire posted:What the gently caress would cause you to pepper spray someone twice if they're strapped to a chair with a bag over their head? God drat, abolish police. is there even a point in 2018 asking why pigs act like they do?
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Aug 15, 2018 01:32
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Aleph Null posted:Even innocent people who die, I still here "well they were guilty of something." They cannot admit that cops are human and fallible, not magic justice machines. It is incompatible to their worldview. This is true, but doesn't capture the whole picture. The other part is that if they admit it was unjust and they didn't deserve it, that means it could happen to them too. It's much easier to just say "it couldn't happen to me, I'm not a criminal" when it absolutely could.
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Aug 15, 2018 01:47
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Tbh the level of white oblivity transitioning into straight nonhuman sociopath callousness displayed by those European tourists should be punishable by guillotine Them complaining about local taxes and bragging about dodging them is like, the cherry on their poo poo cultureless sundae
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Aug 15, 2018 02:31
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Police in Chatsworth GA obviously felt threatened by an 87-year-old woman with dementia holding a kitchen knife and cutting dandelions in a field. She didn't speak English, so obviously the next step was to tase her.
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Aug 15, 2018 02:52
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could we keep the cops doing bad things stuff in the thread dedicated to cops doing bad things and keep this one focused on good old fashioned fun like serial killers
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Aug 15, 2018 04:29
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bean_shadow posted:So...the documentary Capturing The Friedmans.....did they do it? I mean, Arnold definitely had child porn sent to his house but did he and Jesse rape those kids in their computer class? Or was it a mass hysteria like the McMartin Preschool case? For my money, it's seems the father was doing ... something, but the son is innocent. At least some of the allegations are wildly improbable, as one of the victims points. However, I've heard the extra material on the DVD adds even ambiguity to the the case. Anyone seen it?
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Aug 15, 2018 07:24
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Kitfox88 posted:ACAB especially American cops and it's pretty disturbing that a ton of folk think people dying in jail is fine because 'they were criminals anyway' I got into an argument with somebody I used to work with that Actually It's Fine to not protect prisoners from getting HIV and Hepatitis because They're Criminals Anyway. Nothing I could say could convince this old bat that prisoners are in fact human too. Bonus: we worked in a place that was responsible for looking after vulnerable people. 
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Aug 15, 2018 09:32
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I wonder what it would be like to have a functioning criminal justice system.
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Aug 15, 2018 15:36
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chernobyl kinsman posted:could we keep the cops doing bad things stuff in the thread dedicated to cops doing bad things and keep this one focused on good old fashioned fun like serial killers I disagree with this request because what about cops who are serial killers, also I don't like that thread or those "no actually the cops are good" arguments that inevitably happen in police-focused threads thanks for reading
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Aug 15, 2018 15:56
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Miss posted:I got into an argument with somebody I used to work with that Actually It's Fine to not protect prisoners from getting HIV and Hepatitis because They're Criminals Anyway. Nothing I could say could convince this old bat that prisoners are in fact human too. Bonus: we worked in a place that was responsible for looking after vulnerable people. one more fantastic thing about the current system of the carceral state* is that there's this line created between "bad people" and "good people" where bad people are less than human and deserve anything that happens to them, while good people never do anything wrong. there's no such thing as a good person who did a bad thing, or someone who is working on becoming a good person. nope: you do a bad thing, it's the pits of hell for you. oh and while you're down there here's this job sewing jeans for 50 cents an hour. yeah we sell the jeans for $750 a pair and someone's making bank off your slave-labor, what of it? * fantastic for the folks who benefit from it, at least... And now for a change in subject... what if there was a form of dementia that manifested early and attacked personality, impulse control, and language first, turning the person you love into a completely different person who can't explain why they're doing what they're doing? It exists, it's called fronto-temporal dementia, my dad had it and was diagnosed when he was 60, and I'll probably get it too. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/health/a-rare-form-of-dementia-tests-a-vow-of-for-better-for-worse.html (ignore the stuff about the potential treatment )https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/a-lesser-known-dementia-that-steals-personality/282661/
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Aug 15, 2018 16:08
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:one more fantastic thing about the current system of the carceral state* is that there's this line created between "bad people" and "good people" where bad people are less than human and deserve anything that happens to them, while good people never do anything wrong. there's no such thing as a good person who did a bad thing, or someone who is working on becoming a good person. nope: you do a bad thing, it's the pits of hell for you. Oh it's the dementia my grandad got. It was horrible to watch him change so completely and lose his English skills. Eventually he could speak only a smattering of his childhood German and consistently thought he was back in 1930's Berlin trying to escape from the Nazis
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Aug 15, 2018 17:00
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:I disagree with this request because what about cops who are serial killers, also I don't like that thread or those "no actually the cops are good" arguments that inevitably happen in police-focused threads The reasoning behind not posting cops being...well, cops is that it inevitably tracks in the THIN BLUE LINE / ALL LIVES MATTER crowd and derails the thread periodically whenever someone feels the need to explain why shooting a toddler in the face with a beanbag round was necessary and good and it gets tiresome, and so the dedicated thread is there so they can slapfight away from the rest of us.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:15
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worth noting that Blue Lives Mattering the KKKops thread tends to get you a probation, and rightly so
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Aug 15, 2018 17:19
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china bot posted:worth noting that Blue Lives Mattering the KKKops thread tends to get you a probation, and rightly so If it gets them a sixer here too then game on.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:25
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Werong Bustope posted:Oh it's the dementia my grandad got. It was horrible to watch him change so completely and lose his English skills. Eventually he could speak only a smattering of his childhood German and consistently thought he was back in 1930's Berlin trying to escape from the Nazis my dad was misdiagnosed as having depression, then OCD, then depression again, then finally the insurance company allowed he doctors to stick him in an MRI and the report was "wow there's a lot of stuff missing up here." One day at work he just lost his words, couldn't speak, couldn't write, couldn't finish the meeting he was in. he went home sick and never returned. he was never violent or mean that I know of but he would perseverate over things, like (while he was still mobile and able to make himself understood) making sure every spoon was washed and his bed was made and worrying that our finances weren't in order or his life insurance was expired or my license wasn't updated. later on, he would cry a lot (all of us were crying a lot), almost silent weeping since he didn't have words. health care in the USA being what it is, we couldn't afford for him to die here so my mother took him back to the old country and cared for him for 5 increasingly awful years. I got the "you need to come see him now" message and left work and was on a flight that same day but it was 12+ hours so when he died I was still on the plane. I'm still so angry that I wasn't able to be there. it's lovely knowing that's what's in store for me if I live to get old.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:31
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Getting old is scary. In many elder care facilities, they use antipsychotics to restrain the patients: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/08/10/8baff64a-9a63-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2318d5dd298d Antipsychotics are very unpleasant and make old people more likely to die, but when you've been dosed with them you won't wander off our attack your nurses. You won't do much of anything, in fact. For certain mental illnesses like schizophrenia, antipsychotics are a very valuable medication. But this off-label use as a tranquilizer is pretty unsettling.
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Aug 15, 2018 18:06
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They talked about that on Aftereffect, an NPR podcast following the journey of a single autistic man through the system after a traumatic experience. https://www.npr.org/podcasts/620029068/aftereffect I highly recommend it. Very unnerving but worth it.
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Aug 15, 2018 18:13
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the most consistent message to take from this thread is that institutions you've been taught to trust (like the medical system, police, the "justice" system, the government at large, capitalism, etc.) are actually largely inept/purposefully cruel/are the reason for the suffering/destruction of countless lives.
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Aug 15, 2018 21:47
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capitalism bad hierarchy bad owls good
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Aug 15, 2018 22:43
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Kanine posted:the most consistent message to take from this thread is that institutions you've been taught to trust (like the medical system, police, the "justice" system, the government at large, capitalism, etc.) are actually largely inept/purposefully cruel/are the reason for the suffering/destruction of countless lives. They are all run by human beings, so, yes. Honestly, though, I'd like to know how much of this is just perception. How much has our access to the Internet and social networking changed how we look at the world? Was it always this way and we just didn't know about it? Is it better now but we can't see it? How many people with unchecked authority and no accountability abuse their power? How would we even know? It's easy to say "everybody does it" but do they, really? Content: D.C. Couple Killed In Tajikistan Attack Were Biking Around The World Together https://www.npr.org/2018/07/31/634373403/d-c-couple-killed-in-tajikistan-attack-were-biking-around-the-world-together https://people.com/crime/dc-couple-killed-isis-attack-tajikistan-cyclist/ quote:“The yearlong bicycle adventure Lauren and her partner, Jay Austin, were enjoying was typical of her enthusiasm embrace of life’s opportunities, her openness to new people and places, and her quest for a better understanding of the world,” her parents, Robert and Elvira Geoghegan, said in a statement given to CBS. quote:On their blog, they described the kindness and generosity of strangers around the world as they biked through Africa, Europe and central Asia. quote:Why? The short answer, Austin wrote, is that "life is short and the world is big and we want to make the most out of our youth and good health before they're gone. I'm reminded of an old military phrase "one oh poo poo trumps all your atta boys."
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Aug 15, 2018 22:52
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:my dad was misdiagnosed as having depression, then OCD, then depression again, then finally the insurance company allowed he doctors to stick him in an MRI and the report was "wow there's a lot of stuff missing up here." That's a terrible thing to be burdened with all around dude, I'm sorry to hear that. Are there any meaningful studies making progress? I don't know enough about the condition to know if any of the futureworld stem cell research going on in Israel is applicable.
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Aug 15, 2018 23:34
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:capitalism bad All for one and one for owl.
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Aug 15, 2018 23:44
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:And now for a change in subject... what if there was a form of dementia that manifested early and attacked personality, impulse control, and language first, turning the person you love into a completely different person who can't explain why they're doing what they're doing? It exists, it's called fronto-temporal dementia, my dad had it and was diagnosed when he was 60, and I'll probably get it too. I said it the last time this topic came up but mental degradation is one of those things that I fear on a super primal level. My stepdad has brain cancer and he spent 45 minutes on the phone with comcast today because he thought the set-top TV box had broken. When I came down it turned out he was using the wrong remote. 
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Aug 16, 2018 05:05
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