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What the gently caress is going on in here?
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Aug 16, 2018 04:25
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Lemniscate Blue posted:What the gently caress is going on in here? I dunno, what do you think is going on here? Discussion of a proposed anarchojournalism approach to preventing fascism and/or restricting the ability of wealthy interests to dominate the media. I am decidedly, uh, dubious of the propositions in question.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:36
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I did say it would obviously be completely stupid to think that you can just drop those laws in and it would fix the problem, I'm trying to illustrate the position I think you ultimately need to arrive at in order to really solve the problem, because I really don't think anything more incremental would be a long term fix. A route forward perhaps, but not a stable endpoint. I'm hopeful that as I said, the current culture of the new, young, left and its approach to news media will provide some sort of foundation for abolishing the current order of things, but I obviously can't tell you exactly how because it'll depend a lot on how, or even if, that leftist movement gets off the ground and goes anywhere. But I will absolutely stand by the position that putting any trust in corporate media and the culture it produces is antithetical to opposing the far right, the fundamentally liberal position which will invariably be advocated by moneyed interests can not provide an effective rebuttal to the causes of the far right's growth, and it will actively hamper the growth of a leftist alternative. One way or another they have to go. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 04:42
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Lemniscate Blue posted:What the gently caress is going on in here? Twitter has invalidated the need for the free press and usurped the role from corporate owned news outlets so we need to curtail the first amendment and ban all news outlets and we'll all become more enlightened and intelligent news scavengers instead of just watching more sports and reality tv and dumb videos on youtube. Something like that as far as I can follow. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 04:50
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Lemniscate Blue posted:What the gently caress is going on in here? We need to guillotine all of the capitalists, destroy all of the internet infrastructure and anyone that knows anything about it, then introduce a school system that encourages children to follow in the example of Diogenes of Sinope.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:07
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STAC Goat posted:Twitter has invalidated the need for the free press and usurped the role from corporate owned news outlets so we need to curtail the first amendment and ban all news outlets and we'll all become more enlightened and intelligent news scavengers instead of just watching more sports and reality tv and dumb videos on youtube. You can watch your sports, but there's no pregame show because Owlfancier banned all programs that provide information
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Aug 16, 2018 05:11
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Corsair Pool Boy posted:You can watch your sports, but there's no pregame show because Owlfancier banned all programs that provide information You should just do the research and form your own conclusions about what the game will entail.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:19
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Right Wing Media: Sportscenter is the enemy of the people
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Aug 16, 2018 05:35
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Takoluka posted:You should just do the research and form your own conclusions about what the game will entail. But you can't get that research stats from ESPN.com or Yahoosports or fangraphs or something. You gotta find some dude on social media keeping those stats themselves and compare scorecards over stovetops. Like your grandpa did. Or great, great grandpa. Your grandpa probably looked up scores in the newspaper. The fascist.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:35
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Regulation of anything is indeed impossible because as we know, it is impossible to make qualitative judgements about the content of things and enforce restrictions based on those judgements.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:37
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Breitbart today had the host doing the usual ‘Democrats are the real racists/fascists’ dance while several callers suggested the cops use water on counter protesters (but not fire hoses to avoid the obvious symbolism) and one said that eventually conservatives are going to start dragging ‘those people’ out of their homes in the middle of the night and hanging them with a note to ‘knock it off’ to send a message. poo poo is gettin wild
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Aug 16, 2018 05:43
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OwlFancier posted:Regulation of anything is indeed impossible because as we know, it is impossible to make qualitative judgements about the content of things and enforce restrictions based on those judgements. It is not impossible you loving dolt. It is difficult at times, but it can be done -- and is done, even now, even with fuckwits like that traitor Trump and his lackeys, even with enabling morons like you. The last few pages you have done nothing but spew the same anti-media propaganda the Right does, only with different language. Knowledge is important, and while the media is absofuckinglutely not perfect, it's still doing a lot to keep the treasonous parasites in charge in check. Journalists right now are being assaulted because they have the audacity to report the news, by Right-Wing propaganda, the pretend-dictator and his evil crony friends, and by know-nothing luddites on both sides of the spectrum because how dare they not be Fox News/completely perfect! The 24/7 blitz of information is poisonous, but it beats ignorance by a long shot.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:47
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I've repeated this god knows how many times but what the hell makes you think that the press does not bear responsibility for that situation in the first place? Oh no the poor journalists are now suffering because they've legitimized the far right in the name of "balance" and "respecting everyone's opinion" and now the far right isn't grateful. My god, who could have predicted this?
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Aug 16, 2018 05:50
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OwlFancier posted:Regulation of anything is indeed impossible because as we know, it is impossible to make qualitative judgements about the content of things and enforce restrictions based on those judgements. And who do you propose makes these qualitative judgements? Somewhere along the line it will be Congress or the administration (or people appointed by them). I don't see letting either one of them draw that line ending well. Hell, we can't even keep food inspectors or lead pollution in drinking water apolitical even as people are dying from foodborne illness and lead in the water supply (which was INTRODUCED to a previously safe system by a political appointee).
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Aug 16, 2018 05:51
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OwlFancier posted:I've repeated this god knows how many times but what the hell makes you think that the press does not bear responsibility for that situation in the first place? It does not, do not try to blame media for vote that was not even majority. Your libertarian fantasy of "no group of people can tell thing together" literal requires genocide of vast amount of people to do. And even once done, it become impossible to perform any enforcement.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:54
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Corsair Pool Boy posted:And who do you propose makes these qualitative judgements? Somewhere along the line it will be Congress or the administration (or people appointed by them). I don't see letting either one of them draw that line ending well. Hell, we can't even keep food inspectors or lead pollution in drinking water apolitical even as people are dying from foodborne illness and lead in the water supply (which was INTRODUCED to a previously safe system by a political appointee). Would you suggest that you should therefore disband the FDA as a result? Yes it is going to be faulty, but I assume your solution to food quality would not be "the free market will naturally ensure food quality because of competition". nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:It does not, do not try to blame media for vote that was not even majority. Your libertarian fantasy of "no group of people can tell thing together" literal requires genocide of vast amount of people to do. And even once done, it become impossible to perform any enforcement. What on earth do you think voting is based on?? People vote based on the information provided to them, the information environment in which they live, who the hell do you think is responsible for that? Whose choice was it to constantly put Trump on national TV for money and views during the election? And what the hell does genocide have to do with anything? Yes definitely the only way you can restrict businesses is by literally killing everyone involved. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 05:55
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They're reporting the loving news, and the bloated fuckstain that is our glorious leader, unfortunately, is news. Yeah, they gave him a lot of exposure -- too loving much exposure -- but who the gently caress voted for him? Who influenced the system to get him in office? The media isn't innocent, but you can't pin the blame solely upon it. Hell, it's the closest thing we have to a weapon to use against the corruption. You think it's bad now? Imagine how loving bad it would be if nobody was reporting what he was doing. Imagine how much freedom he would have if the average Joe didn't know what vile poo poo he was up to.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:58
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Screaming Idiot posted:They're reporting the loving news, and the bloated fuckstain that is our glorious leader, unfortunately, is news. Yeah, they gave him a lot of exposure -- too loving much exposure -- but who the gently caress voted for him? Who influenced the system to get him in office? The media isn't innocent, but you can't pin the blame solely upon it. Hell, it's the closest thing we have to a weapon to use against the corruption. I don't blame solely it, but this is the media thread, so I'm talking about the media problem. You can't say "yes the media majorly contributed to the problem because of its culture of operation which has not changed in the slightest, but right now some of them are complaining about it, so we can't suggest that actually it might be their own drat fault in the first place." Presidents have term limits, what do you think is going to happen in the next election? They're going to put him, or someone just like him, right back on TV 24/7 because "it's news" and it's going to have exactly the same effect. It is the media as a business that makes them so easily a vehicle for promoting the far right, because they will do it if it makes them money. And it's the media as a business that promotes a toothless liberal like Clinton as the only alternative, because anything more hard left that can engage trump on his own turf of populism, is clearly unconscionable. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 06:02
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OwlFancier posted:
Mostly stupidity and ignorance. Which is plan of you, since you hate concept of communication beyond wall of village. You must genocide vast amounts of human population, since you demand halt to all practical form of communication. What with hatred of government media communications in all form, messages carried by more than 5 persons, etc. Who will tell your dumb face of incoming deadly storm when it is illegal for anyone to communicate weather? How farmers safeguard crop appropriate without that? :And have fun with no power due to lack of time signal broadcast that keep such things in order to support power grid. You are ignorant fool.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:03
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nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:Mostly stupidity and ignorance. Which is plan of you, since you hate concept of communication beyond wall of village. I appreciate that English might not be your first language but I explicitly said that large scale communication for things like emergencies would obviously be excepted and that obviously should go for infrastructure too. People knowing the weather or sports results does not have an objectionable effect on politics. Please read more carefully.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:06
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OwlFancier posted:I appreciate that English might not be your first language but I explicitly said that large scale communication for things like emergencies would obviously be excepted and that obviously should go for infrastructure too. People knowing the weather or sports results does not have an objectionable effect on politics. Please read more carefully. You're a loving moron and I feel dumber for having read anything you posted. Kindly gently caress off.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:08
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OwlFancier posted:I appreciate that English might not be your first language but I explicitly said that large scale communication for things like emergencies would obviously be excepted and that obviously should go for infrastructure too. People knowing the weather or sports results does not have an objectionable effect on politics. Please read more carefully. Genocide man, you will collapse the entire world economy and starve the billions of people if you only have communication for "emergency". Also sports team have major tie to politics, it goes back into Ancient Rome, lol. Maybe you should sober up and go reconsider media and politics for a while? You not see that existence is inherently of political, impossible to remove politics from anything. Indeed cry of "remove politics" usually term of the liberal you say you hate.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:13
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Groovelord Neato posted:the gently caress happened to these people. It's weird. I remember my "Atheists, Agnostics, and Freethinkers" club in college (2004-2008) being a majority women (with like a third of the club being LGBT) club that invited Marxist professors to discussions, and next thing I know all the atheist organizations are bunch of bigoted libertarians or something.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:16
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Christ alive I'm talking to a wall here. Yes definitely we can't allow the weather report because it's too political, that's definitely the point I've been articulating for pages, you cracked the code.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:16
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Screaming Idiot posted:Knowledge is important, and while the media is absofuckinglutely not perfect, it's still doing a lot to keep the treasonous parasites in charge in check. Journalists right now are being assaulted because they have the audacity to report the news, by Right-Wing propaganda, the pretend-dictator and his evil crony friends, and by know-nothing luddites on both sides of the spectrum because how dare they not be Fox News/completely perfect! While I'm not remotely convinced that there's a reasonable path to the outcome OwlFancier is describing (I feel like any path to that outcome might cause more harm than good), he is absolutely correct that the net outcome of media is to preserve the wealth/power of those who currently hold it. While there are disagreements among the rich, one thing they agree on is that they should stay rich, and the media serves to lock out any opinions that could threaten that status quo (through defining the range of "acceptable" opinions, which basically correspond to the spectrum of mainstream liberal to conservative ideology). edit: At the very least, the idea that it's holding Trump and the like accountable is laughable on its face. The media absolutely is more helpful to Trump than it is hurtful. Screaming Idiot posted:You think it's bad now? Imagine how loving bad it would be if nobody was reporting what he was doing. Imagine how much freedom he would have if the average Joe didn't know what vile poo poo he was up to. Honest question - what has the media stopped Trump from doing? I can't think of a single thing. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 06:23
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For the record I don't know what, if any, path to it there is either. But thank you for making me not feel like I'm going entirely insane.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:24
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OwlFancier posted:Yes definitely we can't allow the weather report because it's too political The right-winger eyes reports of the heat wave sweeping the country being the result of climate change and says, "This but unironically, ban all weather stations."
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Aug 16, 2018 06:29
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Lemniscate Blue posted:What the gently caress is going on in here?
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Aug 16, 2018 08:15
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I dunno why it stands out to me, but Fox News' reporting on Sasha Baron Cohen's show is that some people didn't "get tricked", with no more than a cursory mention of anyone who said anything embarrassing. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/08/15/sacha-baron-cohens-who-is-america-pranks-didnt-trick-everyone.html quote:Sacha Baron Cohen's satirical seven-episode Showtime series "Who Is America?" has made headlines for tricking celebrities and politicians including Ted Koppel, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio and more. Ted Koppel didn't do anything embarrassing either.
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Aug 16, 2018 08:25
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They have to pretend the left got clowned on just as bad because if they don't then readers would ask the obvious question of why mainstream right wing people are so gullible. Leftists can be gullible too, but the ones important enough to be targeted by Cohen really aren't. So they pretend Ted Koppel got tricked as bad as that dude who showed his literal rear end and screamed the N word.
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Aug 16, 2018 10:47
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couple episodes behind but so far the only person so far who seemed to recognize pretty quickly that the person they were dealing with might be putting them on was bernie sanders
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Aug 16, 2018 11:55
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OwlFancier posted:Regulation of anything is indeed impossible because as we know... OK. Can you gently caress off and get out my thread now please? You're making some really dumb arguments. Thanks Wow. James O' Keefe is bitching about selective editing of recordings
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Aug 16, 2018 13:35
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The Muppets On PCP posted:couple episodes behind but so far the only person so far who seemed to recognize pretty quickly that the person they were dealing with might be putting them on was bernie sanders Yeah, several early reviews pointed out how he was the only one (at that point) who managed to escape with his dignity intact.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:38
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OwlFancier posted:Would you suggest that you should therefore disband the FDA as a result? Yes it is going to be faulty, but I assume your solution to food quality would not be "the free market will naturally ensure food quality because of competition". No. Disbanding the FDA would be the same as your idea of disbanding the press. nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:You are ignorant fool. OwlFancier posted:Christ alive I'm talking to a wall here. Weather > Climate change > Political (for better or worse) nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:You are ignorant fool. Ytlaya posted:While I'm not remotely convinced that there's a reasonable path to the outcome OwlFancier is describing (I feel like any path to that outcome might cause more harm than good), he is absolutely correct that the net outcome of media is to preserve the wealth/power of those who currently hold it. I don't think anyone is disputing that. quote:Honest question - what has the media stopped Trump from doing? I can't think of a single thing. The media absolutely played a key part in ending the family separation at the border. Exposing lies and monstrous policy is what they should be doing far more often.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:54
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I don't think I've ever seen anyone describe a libertarian-like system without actually calling it libertarian like this before. The only thing that's missing is 'Invisible Hand of the Free Market'. We might as well just make our NuMedia be amazon product reviews.OwlFancier posted:Again, countries that have restricted media tend to be oppressive because they restricted the media with the intent of oppressing people. By ensuring a monopoly for their own propaganda outlets. Yeah... no, this happens in the other direction. They start oppressing people and restricting the media is part of that oppression.
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Aug 16, 2018 14:20
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e;fb!!! drat you!!!  Come on guys...the "Marketplace of Ideas" will work if you just let it.... 90s Libertarianism is the disease that keeps on giving.
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Aug 16, 2018 14:26
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Swiping from the Trump thread to get us back on track aa bit There may be something in the Constitution that addresses this but I haven't read it in a while.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:15
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Ok, seriously, is Tucker's face just frozen like that? Does he have some rare paralytic disease that causes him to always make the same dumbfounded expression? Does anyone have a photo of him making any other expression? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Aug 16, 2018 15:27
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Keeshhound posted:Ok, seriously, is Tucker's face just frozen like that? Does he have some rare paralytic disease that causes him to always make the same dumbfounded expression? I want to bury my fist deep, deep into that furrowed brow.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:35
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Keeshhound posted:Ok, seriously, is Tucker's face just frozen like that? Does he have some rare paralytic disease that causes him to always make the same dumbfounded expression? it's called being the product of an extremely shallow gene pool via yankee blueblood inbreeding
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Aug 16, 2018 15:44
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