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Android Blues posted:His debut story back in the 1940s had him as a serial killer, so it's definitely part of the character's DNA. In his very first appearance, he's more of a crazed murderer who uses the clown theme to add some drama to his killings than anything else. It was in the Silver Age period from the late 50s through to the early 70s, where both Batman and Superman were significantly rounded off in order to fit within the boundaries set by the Comics Code, that the Joker's iconic "goofy clown" personality came to the fore. Then, when the Code relaxed, writers began to emphasise elements of the Joker's old, murderous characterisation more and more and more, until you get to where we are today. Yeah, I don't think he killed anyone again until Joker's Five Way Revenge.
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Aug 15, 2018 13:08
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Even by the standards of Batman's earliest Golden Age villains, Joker was murderous and creepy. Dude had no qualms about racking up a body count. And they wanted to leave him dead, because...well, a guy killing a ton of people and just getting away with it makes Batman look bad!Teenage Fansub posted:Batman's blind moralism isn't for the kids, it's his defining interesting characteristic. No, his defining interesting characteristic is that he dresses up in a bat costume and fights crime with gadgets and karate. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Aug 15, 2018 |
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Aug 15, 2018 15:04
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I think saying "the Joker debuted as a serial killer" is a bit of an understatement - he got his start by killing people with joker toxin so they'd have a hideous rictus grin on their corpses when they died. The thing was, he called in to the radio to announce who he was going to kill any given night, and always seemed to hunt them down despite their advanced warning and whatever precautions they took against him. Because, of course, he had dosed them all before calling into the radio show, and the toxin had a 24 hour waiting period. Point is, even in that early appearance, he was grisly as gently caress, and Batman actually does some drat detective work instead of punching guys and talking to a computer all night.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:34
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Lurdiak posted:Arkham City and Knight are absurdly Joker-centric to the detriment of the larger narratives. Don't forget Origins.
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Aug 15, 2018 19:17
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Android Blues posted:For real. I get that "Joker is a murderer" has always been part of his character, but it wouldn't hurt to play down that aspect in the same way the animated series did and play up the more fun parts of him. I would have no problem if the Joker made an oath against killing as well.
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Aug 15, 2018 22:07
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SonicRulez posted:Don't forget Origins. Why not, everyone else did.
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Aug 15, 2018 22:28
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Lurdiak posted:Arkham City and Knight are absurdly Joker-centric to the detriment of the larger narratives. The main story in Knight is Scarecrow being Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight being a fresh new character who isn't Jasoit's Jason Todd. And I'll take Joker being a voice in Bats' head any day over that.
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Aug 15, 2018 23:05
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The main story in Knight is Scarecrow being Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight being a fresh new character who isn't Jasoit's Jason Todd. I would watch an entire season of a show about the Tally Man before seeing the loving Arkham Joker again.
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Aug 15, 2018 23:23
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They gave Arkham Joker a perfect ending in Knight so I really hope they don't go back to it
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Aug 16, 2018 01:37
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Are the Arkham games any good? I played Asylum for a bit, it was okay, but it wasn't something that grabbed me. (and yeah I just spoiled myself up to Knight, but the story looks interesting)
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Aug 16, 2018 05:10
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Asylum is the one with the tightest design. If it didn't interest you then none of the others will.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:30
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Of course they're any good! I think Asylum's the best one. I just liked the Metroid type progression through a tight environment more than the open world. e: What Ghostlight said. Knight looks astounding, or at least it did two years ago (e: three years ago. Jeeze.) Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 05:31
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I think Asylum, City and large parts of the others are fantastic so if Asylum didn't grab you I wouldn't expect the others to be any better.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:32
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Asylum has the better atmosphere since it takes place in tight and confined spaces, but City has a better literally every thing else. It's possible you might enjoy it and likely the rest of the series, since Origins and Knight take after City more than Asylum. It's really about what you didn't like. If it was the plot, just quit. If it was the gameplay, there's some wiggle room. The Arkham games were always contending for GotY awards for a reason though.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:42
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I replayed Asylum again after finishing the series and the controls feel a bit clunky. But that's what you get with a 10 year old game. One other thing I noticed is that tonally it's much lighter than the following games, with each one getting darker and more mature. It's definitely a series that seems to grow with the age of the players, kinda like Harry Potter did with the books and movies. It's an interesting progression.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:41
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food court bailiff posted:I think saying "the Joker debuted as a serial killer" is a bit of an understatement - he got his start by killing people with joker toxin so they'd have a hideous rictus grin on their corpses when they died. The thing was, he called in to the radio to announce who he was going to kill any given night, and always seemed to hunt them down despite their advanced warning and whatever precautions they took against him. Back when Joker debuted not only was there no Batcomputers, there were no computers full stop. In fact the idea of a serial killer didn't exist. That understanding of the criminal mind didn't come about until the late 60's/70's.
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Aug 16, 2018 08:35
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The Question IRL posted:
There are historical notations of serial murders long before that.
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Aug 16, 2018 10:34
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They called them jack the rippers.
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Aug 16, 2018 10:36
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Rhyno posted:There are historical notations of serial murders long before that. But the idea or comprehension that a person would kill again and again following a pattern and doing so for a specific reason? That's only been understood in recent times. Back when the Joker was first created the vast understanding of killers were that they were just evil.
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Aug 16, 2018 11:14
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Teenage Fansub posted:They called them jack the rippers. Jacks the ripper.
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Aug 16, 2018 11:35
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prefect posted:Jacks the ripper. https://www.theonion.com/william-safire-orders-two-whoppers-junior-1819565735/amp
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Aug 16, 2018 12:44
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Schneider Heim posted:Are the Arkham games any good? I played Asylum for a bit, it was okay, but it wasn't something that grabbed me. (and yeah I just spoiled myself up to Knight, but the story looks interesting) Asylum and City are the only good ones, and even then City has huge writing problems.
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Aug 16, 2018 12:57
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City's story is awful, but the gameplay is very good. Story spoiler: The plot revolves around the fact that the Joker is dying from his abuse of Joker Venom, but he might be faking it because you run into him being hale and hearty sometimes. The final plot twist is that the "healthy" Joker was Clayface working on retainer for the Joker, and that he really is dying. This would work except for the fact that Clayface has never been mentioned before in either of the preceding games apart from a brief Easter egg in Asylum, and there's zero foreshadowing or build-up for it being Clayface within City's story, even right at the end when Clayface is introduced, so the final confrontation with Joker just involves him exploding into a huge goo monster for no adequately explained reason. If you're not a Batman continuity nerd then the whole climax of the story is just a baffling non sequitur.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:08
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And even if you are a Batman nerd it's like, "Wait, what?"
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Aug 16, 2018 13:41
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SonicRulez posted:Asylum has the better atmosphere since it takes place in tight and confined spaces, but City has a better literally every thing else. It's possible you might enjoy it and likely the rest of the series, since Origins and Knight take after City more than Asylum. It's really about what you didn't like. If it was the plot, just quit. If it was the gameplay, there's some wiggle room. The Arkham games were always contending for GotY awards for a reason though.
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Aug 16, 2018 14:00
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I've only played City and the story makes no loving sense, but the actual gameplay is the closest to being Batman that I could ever have wanted since I was five years old and watching Adam West reruns. I'm reluctant to try Knight because I hear it doesn't play as well, mostly because of overdependence on the Batmobile (I'm terrible at driving games).
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Aug 16, 2018 14:05
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Selachian posted:I've only played City and the story makes no loving sense, but the actual gameplay is the closest to being Batman that I could ever have wanted since I was five years old and watching Adam West reruns. I'm reluctant to try Knight because I hear it doesn't play as well, mostly because of overdependence on the Batmobile (I'm terrible at driving games). I think most of the actual driving is in optional challenges and substories while the mandatory story content featuring the Batmobile is basically Cybersled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAx4X_VVlTU
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Aug 16, 2018 14:37
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Selachian posted:I've only played City and the story makes no loving sense, but the actual gameplay is the closest to being Batman that I could ever have wanted since I was five years old and watching Adam West reruns. I'm reluctant to try Knight because I hear it doesn't play as well, mostly because of overdependence on the Batmobile (I'm terrible at driving games). But Knight has new takedown mechanics that are really fun and a fair tradeoff IMO.
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Aug 16, 2018 14:47
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Is Knight the one that has its actual ending gated by finding every Riddler trophy?
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Aug 16, 2018 15:23
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Selachian posted:I've only played City and the story makes no loving sense, but the actual gameplay is the closest to being Batman that I could ever have wanted since I was five years old and watching Adam West reruns. I'm reluctant to try Knight because I hear it doesn't play as well, mostly because of overdependence on the Batmobile (I'm terrible at driving games). The Batmobile stuff is the reason I haven't finished Knight. It's just annoying if you suck at driving games. Other than that, its a fun game.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:25
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Halloween Jack posted:I don't like driving games at all, so there's way too much loving Batmobile for my taste. But there are parts of it I do like, and a lot of it is sidequests you can skip if you don't give a poo poo about 100% completion. Fear Takedowns (the fast combo ones in predator mode) were the best. Every stealth game needs chain assassinations/takedowns (some do but are very unwieldy or slow, like in AC: Origins). Although it was kind of silly that they had to explain the Fear Takedowns by way of suit tech upgrades as if we (Batman) hadn't been doing Freeflow superspeed acrobatics all the way across rooms for three games already. He's just in the zone, ok?
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Aug 16, 2018 15:36
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Lobok posted:Fear Takedowns (the fast combo ones in predator mode) were the best. Every stealth game needs chain assassinations/takedowns (some do but are very unwieldy or slow, like in AC: Origins). I felt like Fear Takedowns made the game a little too easy sometimes (especially after you upgraded to like x5). Unless I played a bunch of City challenge rounds in my sleep and became a super expert before the game's release. The Batmobile was super awful though. I mean even if you tried to ignore it and just fly around (which was a super viable option after a few grapple upgrades) the story still forces you to go lower all the drawbridges around town to get the Batmobile access to areas. You're forced multiple times to take the car in to Wayne Tower for repairs/upgrades, there's even a drat main story quest to get Batman a new battery/air filter for his car after Scarecrow floods the city with fear toxin because we just have to have the car, guys, there's zero other ways in all of Bat-lore to navigate a gas cloud. Really though the most obnoxious thing is that (on the PS4 at least) they mapped the loving thing to the button that used to be Detective Vision, so I ended up summoning the goddamn car constantly. Ugh AK was such a letdown...
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Aug 16, 2018 16:22
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The fights against the tanks were so tedious. I loved Asylum and City, but found Origins and Knight to be fairly tedious disappointments.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:41
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The Question IRL posted:But the idea or comprehension that a person would kill again and again following a pattern and doing so for a specific reason? That's only been understood in recent times. We've only recently come to understand it yes, but the idea and classification of a serial killer has been around much longer than the 60's/70's. There are dated articles that refer to the Ripper killings that use the term "serial murderer."
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Aug 16, 2018 16:53
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irlZaphod posted:The fights against the tanks were so tedious. Dawgstar posted:Is Knight the one that has its actual ending gated by finding every Riddler trophy?
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Aug 16, 2018 16:57
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They have a whole montage of the moments that foreshadowed Clayface. There's a point you can scan Joker and he has no bones. Knight was a crazy letdown.
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Aug 16, 2018 23:13
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Android Blues posted:City's story is awful, but the gameplay is very good. Story spoiler: The plot revolves around the fact that the Joker is dying from his abuse of Joker Venom And this is where I checked out, because any idiot knows that Joker is immune to Joker Venom.
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Aug 16, 2018 23:32
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Senior Woodchuck posted:And this is where I checked out, because any idiot knows that Joker is immune to Joker Venom. He wasn't using Joker Venom. He had spiked the formula for Titan, a steroid based on Bane's Venom with the Joker Poison and was suffering from the adverse effects of that.
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Aug 16, 2018 23:39
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SonicRulez posted:They have a whole montage of the moments that foreshadowed Clayface. There's a point you can scan Joker and he has no bones. The problem is that the game never mentions Clayface at all at any point before the reveal. That's a good hint for a continuity nerd who's constantly looking for allusions to a canon they already know - it makes no sense to a player who doesn't know who Clayface is, and the game doesn't do anything later to make it make more sense, because even when you're fighting Clayface it doesn't really introduce him beyond, "of course, it was Clayface the whole time!". I mean, I am a gigantic Batman nerd, but it's still awful storytelling because the foreshadowing only works if you have knowledge you bring in from outside the game's story proper. It's like if an episode of Scooby Doo ended with Fred pulling off the rubber mask to reveal that it was Jabberjaw who was sabotaging the miners all along, because they crossed over that one time, remember? Also in this analogy the episode of Scooby Doo is 35 hours long. Except that actually sounds amazing so never mind, not that, a more damning analogy and also someone make that Scooby Doo episode.
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Aug 16, 2018 23:44
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Ok that's what Rocksteady has to do. Remake the Arkham series but as Scooby-Doo games.
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Aug 16, 2018 23:53
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