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Your Parents posted:tbh its pretty ableist to poo poo on dave for this. That’s actually a fair point and I apologize
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Aug 16, 2018 16:14
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Weird coincidence how "Yeah sure WWE is bad too, BUT." is usually followed by carrying water for WWE.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:16
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I enjoy that pointing out that WWE literally doing a special show for Saudi princes is about the same level as Dave awkwardly saying something.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:22
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I never equated the two, I only said that two things can be bad simultaneously and that criticizing one doesn’t mean endorsing or ignoring the other. It’s a pretty disingenuous way to approach a disagreement. Let me guess, I can’t rail against late-stage capitalism from an iPhone either, can I?
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Aug 16, 2018 16:29
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illcendiary posted:I never equated the two, I only said that two things can be bad simultaneously and that criticizing one doesn’t mean endorsing or ignoring the other. It’s a pretty disingenuous way to approach a disagreement. Let me guess, I can’t rail against late-stage capitalism from an iPhone either, can I? Supporting identity politics is supporting late-stage capitalism
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Aug 16, 2018 16:35
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True....drat......
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Aug 16, 2018 16:40
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In one stroke, you disregarded his genuine attempt to be contrite and disregarded the actual good he does as an advocate for workers in the wrestling industry to do the "both are bad" shtick, so yeah, I feel comfortable saying you equated them. Like, dude. This isn't Hogan going "I'm sorry I got caught." or Russo going "How dare you criticize my parents and the way they raised me I'll have you know I know gay people." He is actually trying to apologize. How about loving meeting someone thats trying to be genuine half way.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:40
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illcendiary posted:I never equated the two, I only said that two things can be bad simultaneously and that criticizing one doesn’t mean endorsing or ignoring the other. It’s a pretty disingenuous way to approach a disagreement. Let me guess, I can’t rail against late-stage capitalism from an iPhone either, can I? You can criticize but Meltzer has apologized numerous times at this point, and wwe took the money from Saudi Arabia. They also didn't change the moolah battle royale until snickers got upset, and the million other lovely things wwe does.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:42
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VJeff posted:In one stroke, you disregarded his genuine attempt to be contrite and disregarded the actual good he does as an advocate for workers in the wrestling industry to do the "both are bad" shtick, so yeah, I feel comfortable saying you equated them. I guess I disagree his apology is genuine. I mean, the guy took over a half-hour with his trademark parade of tangents to essentially say “I was wrong, I apologize, a lot of people told me I shouldn’t have apologized, but I did, here’s all the ways I’ve been good otherwise, and look hey here are some other reasons why me discussing her body was valid, it’s a looks business and hey that’s just part of it!” I believe that he believes that he misspoke and said something dumb. I don’t truly believe he actually understands what part of what he said is inappropriate. I also think it’s lovely that he can’t help but drop in the whole “a lot of people don’t think I should be doing this!” thing that is basically a wink and nod to his listenership that their feelings, if they run counter to Peyton Royce’s, are still valid. I don’t think he’s a bad person, it’s not going to make me unsubscribe, but I think the criticism is fair.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:49
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illcendiary posted:I guess I disagree his apology is genuine. I mean, the guy took over a half-hour with his trademark parade of tangents to essentially say “I was wrong, I apologize, a lot of people told me I shouldn’t have apologized, but I did, here’s all the ways I’ve been good otherwise, and look hey here are some other reasons why me discussing her body was valid, it’s a looks business and hey that’s just part of it!” I'm not making a joke here but his natural speech pattern is a 30 minute parade of tangents.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:55
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MassRafTer posted:I'm not making a joke here but his natural speech pattern is a 30 minute parade of tangents. Yeah I said it earlier. Dave is a weird dude he says things in weird ways. He's not a bad guy just a weirdo.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:57
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VJeff posted:In one stroke, you disregarded his genuine attempt to be contrite and disregarded the actual good he does as an advocate for workers in the wrestling industry to do the "both are bad" shtick, so yeah, I feel comfortable saying you equated them. In 2018, I'm pretty sure we can safely say that discussion on the internet is never going to result in this. For anyone interested, when people were telling Dave not to apologize: they were right. I have a degree in communications and one of the big takeaways was when we looked at a good dozen case studies from the last 10 years in one of our PR classes that detailed why apologizing and trying to make amends are the wrong strategy to take.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:59
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illcendiary posted:I believe that he believes that he misspoke and said something dumb. I don’t truly believe he actually understands what part of what he said is inappropriate. I also think it’s lovely that he can’t help but drop in the whole “a lot of people don’t think I should be doing this!” thing that is basically a wink and nod to his listenership that their feelings, if they run counter to Peyton Royce’s, are still valid. He seemed genuinely upset and regretful that what he said was (understandably) interpreted as "she should lose weight" which I believe was not his intent at all, and he owned the fact that he said what he said, regardless of intent, and apologized for it. What part do you think he doesn't understand?
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Aug 16, 2018 17:00
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MassRafTer posted:I'm not making a joke here but his natural speech pattern is a 30 minute parade of tangents. Surprised he didn't bring up Ann Calvello.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:01
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illcendiary posted:I guess I disagree his apology is genuine. I mean, the guy took over a half-hour with his trademark parade of tangents to essentially say “I was wrong, I apologize, a lot of people told me I shouldn’t have apologized, but I did, here’s all the ways I’ve been good otherwise, and look hey here are some other reasons why me discussing her body was valid, it’s a looks business and hey that’s just part of it!” This is a bad take
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Aug 16, 2018 17:01
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The thirty minute tangents things is part of what makes the shows so entertaining. It was funny to listen to him get derailed almost immediately into the Neidhart retrospective. But I guess my point is this. When you do something lovely, it’s not wrong for someone to call you out, and when you apologize and the apology kinda sucks, it’s not wrong to get called out on that either. Doesn’t have to be a referendum on the totality of the person.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:02
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illcendiary posted:The thirty minute tangents things is part of what makes the shows so entertaining. It was funny to listen to him get derailed almost immediately into the Neidhart retrospective. If someone is making a genuine attempt it's more than ok to go look I know what you're trying to say. Let's move on. But you already said you don't think he is being genuine.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:05
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PaybackJack posted:In 2018, I'm pretty sure we can safely say that discussion on the internet is never going to result in this. Ah yes when I think "people who aren't complete scumbags" PR people are the ones I should look to????? I hope the lesson learned here is that Dave shouldn't dance around the idea that WWE encourages workers to have fake boobs, and while we're at it, talk straight about them wanting an African American in the commentary booth for 'good optics'.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:08
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At this point I'm just annoyed at both sides. I feel like it was obvious Dave was trying to comment on her surgery and is too much of a weirdo to not just say it and instead said something way worse. I also feel like a lot of the outcry is genuine or at least missing the real point. Most of what I've seen is people saying that you can't call Peyton unattractive because actually she's very attractive and look at these photos of how attractive she is. It's kind of missing the point that "attractiveness" just shouldn't be a part of the equation. Also forget Saudi Arabia, remember all the times WWE has called Mickie James fat and old in her current run?
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Aug 16, 2018 17:10
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I don't see how you could listen to the first five minutes of this and not think he's being genuine. And the irony here is that people told him not to apologize were doing so in anticipation of uh, basically exactly what's happening right now.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:10
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Gumball Gumption posted:At this point I'm just annoyed at both sides. I feel like it was obvious Dave was trying to comment on her surgery and is too much of a weirdo to not just say it and instead said something way worse. I also feel like a lot of the outcry is genuine or at least missing the real point. Most of what I've seen is people saying that you can't call Peyton unattractive because actually she's very attractive and look at these photos of how attractive she is. It's kind of missing the point that "attractiveness" just shouldn't be a part of the equation. The outcry on those tweets didn't seem genuine at all. They didn't even read like he people who were supposed to be writing them. I really think wwe wants to discredit Dave so they can control the full wrestling narrative.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:14
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algebra testes posted:Jim Cornette apparently did a deep dive on his time with ROH on his Podcast. Glad he took the time to bury poor Grizzly Redwood haha
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Aug 16, 2018 17:14
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Gumball Gumption posted:At this point I'm just annoyed at both sides. I feel like it was obvious Dave was trying to comment on her surgery and is too much of a weirdo to not just say it and instead said something way worse. Also wanted to avoid a HIPAA violation lawsuit, I'd guess. But then trying to goad him into stating her medical situation/reveal his source is an rear end in a top hat move since they know he can't.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:17
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EugeneJ posted:Also wanted to avoid a HIPAA violation lawsuit, I'd guess. I'm by no means an attorney but I'm pretty sure HIPAA doesn't apply to journalists who notice fake boobs.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:20
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Lone Goat posted:Ah yes when I think "people who aren't complete scumbags" PR people are the ones I should look to????? You're definitely right about PR people being scumbags but unfortunately there's more than just numbers on their side in this one, and as our friend illcendiary has shown us here, a botched apology does one no favors even when you try to speak as from the heart as someone like Dave possibly can. Believe me, I wish it was another way and it's ultimately why I didn't end up pursuing a career in PR. It reminded me of sales in the sense that your job was to willfully ignore decent human values in order to sell your product/image to the consumers at large. The long and short of the argument why you don't apologize though is that you admit fault (which can create a recurring crisis), won't gain you any new followers, and if the apology goes badly could hurt your reputation even further (see our friend illcendiary).
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Aug 16, 2018 17:22
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Yeah, I don't know if his own eyeballs is a source.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:23
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PaybackJack posted:You're definitely right about PR people being scumbags but unfortunately there's more than just numbers on their side in this one, and as our friend illcendiary has shown us here, a botched apology does one no favors even when you try to speak as from the heart as someone like Dave possibly can. If your only concern is reputation and keeping followers and not actual contrition, then sure. I’m re-listening to the opening minutes of his apology tour and my assessment of him not being genuine is a little harsh, so I apologize for that. I think the long and short of it is that he just struggles so mightily to speak with grace that everything sounds so awkward.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:27
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Karmine posted:I'm by no means an attorney but I'm pretty sure HIPAA doesn't apply to journalists who notice fake boobs. I mean, he's been skirting around outright saying stuff like "Cena looks like he's on steroids" by saying "Cena looks bigger" or "Cena looks smaller" for years
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Aug 16, 2018 17:29
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illcendiary posted:If your only concern is reputation and keeping followers and not actual contrition, then sure. Showing actual contrition is completely subjective, as you proved, therefore using that as a reason to publicly apologize is worthless.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:29
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Oh hey just a quick, unrelated remark, Bryan and Vinny covering the rise of Mr. rear end has been an absolute treat for me and I think it peaked this week with "The Rock sabotaged Mr. rear end's rear end massage." Pure poetry, and I didn't want it to get lost in the midst of Davegate.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:29
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Also Alvaraz has dodged a hell of a bullet here by being a flunky.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:29
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PaybackJack posted:You're definitely right about PR people being scumbags but unfortunately there's more than just numbers on their side in this one, and as our friend illcendiary has shown us here, a botched apology does one no favors even when you try to speak as from the heart as someone like Dave possibly can. Spot on. My wife represents an organization that follows this to a 'T' and beyond when it comes to news stories and it drives her mad but sadly it makes sense. Even when you know you are in the right and just want to state your case to the public and help them understand, just zip it. 9 times out of 10, It won't help.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:38
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dave's apology was fine but sounds like poo poo without being fluent in dave. unfortunately, those are the ones his apology needed to reach, so they're going to hate it a lot. bryan and vinny are incredible body shamers and have been for over a decade now. but i think it's funny when they make fun of jobbers
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Aug 16, 2018 17:47
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EugeneJ posted:Also wanted to avoid a HIPAA violation lawsuit, I'd guess. ????? ?????
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Aug 16, 2018 17:47
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MotU posted:????? ????? that guy is such a moron lol
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Aug 16, 2018 17:48
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"hey u lost weight, looks good" *is immediately fined 10,000$ b/c person had weightloss surgery or was on a weight loss medication*
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Aug 16, 2018 17:52
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EugeneJ posted:I mean, he's been skirting around outright saying stuff like "Cena looks like he's on steroids" by saying "Cena looks bigger" or "Cena looks smaller" for years
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Aug 16, 2018 17:54
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EugeneJ posted:I mean, he's been skirting around outright saying stuff like "Cena looks like he's on steroids" by saying "Cena looks bigger" or "Cena looks smaller" for years Right. Things that are also not HIPAA violations, just possible libel.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:54
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listen i heard people say HIPAA in a vague conversation like 6 years ago about something something privacy with medical stuff, I am pretty sure I'm an expert on it and that stuff is 130% a hippo violation
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Aug 16, 2018 17:56
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lol
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Aug 16, 2018 17:59
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