Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

«‹›528 »

Hoshi: Jan 20, 2013

SlyFrog posted:

It's not either/or. It's how much time is given discussing the one, versus the other.

In their eyes, liberals are hyper-focused on the rights of people who make up roughly 1-5% of the population (yes, I recognize minorities are a larger percentage of the population, but not where these people are from), and do not give a poo poo about the bulk of America.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's what they think. They do not think they're voting against their own interests. They think they've voting for someone who at least talks about bringing their jobs back, etc. Instead of talking about loan forgiveness for those drat spoiled college kids from the coasts.

Hot take: nuke the Midwest

Hoshi fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Aug 16, 2018

# ? Aug 16, 2018 15:25

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 5, 2024 12:03

nutri_void: Apr 18, 2015; I shall devour your soul.; Grimey Drawer

This is getting dangerously close to D&D

# ? Aug 16, 2018 15:29

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Please tell me it wasn't my office. We sue lots of dealers.

Haha, no. Individual.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 15:32

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

SlyFrog posted:

It's not either/or. It's how much time is given discussing the one, versus the other.

In their eyes, liberals are hyper-focused on the rights of people who make up roughly 1-5% of the population (yes, I recognize minorities are a larger percentage of the population, but not where these people are from), and do not give a poo poo about the bulk of America.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's what they think. They do not think they're voting against their own interests. They think they've voting for someone who at least talks about bringing their jobs back, etc. Instead of talking about loan forgiveness for those drat spoiled college kids from the coasts.

yeah but given that they're going to be getting their news from sources with a vested interest in lying about how much time is spent working on one or the other, the only way you counter that is to just abandon doing anything for anyone besides bubba, throwing women, minorities, gays, etc overboard because spending any time on their interests will be taken as ~too much time~ so we wind up back in the exact same place: gently caress em

# ? Aug 16, 2018 15:35

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

SlyFrog posted:

It's not either/or. It's how much time is given discussing the one, versus the other.

In their eyes, liberals are hyper-focused on the rights of people who make up roughly 1-5% of the population (yes, I recognize minorities are a larger percentage of the population, but not where these people are from), and do not give a poo poo about the bulk of America. In fact, I think they believe (not entirely without some justification) that liberals are actively condescending and patronizing toward the bulk of America. It's really hard to vote for people that essentially sneer at you.

I genuinely do not think that the bulk of these people hate gays, transgendered, and minorities. I think they primarily don't give a gently caress, and wonder why so much time is spent on figuring out which bathrooms people can use when they can't get jobs and are dying en masse from poor health care, drug epidemics, etc., and are seeing their purchasing power just get destroyed by growing wealth inequality. The difference is, to them, wealth inequality is gained magically by giving them more opportunities, rather than taking something from those who already have.

I essentially think both sides have a caricature of the other side in mind when they think about the other side, rather than actually understanding them. The difference is, I think that liberals do it too (even though they think they don't), where they think every rural person and every conservative voter is a hillbilly with 50 guns who beats his wife every night before dragging a gay guy behind a pickup truck.

Anyway, with regards to the poor who voted for Trump, I'm not saying it's right (in fact, I don't think it's right, I think they are actually harming themselves), I'm saying it's what they think. They do not think they're voting against their own interests. They think they've voting for someone who at least talks about bringing their jobs back, etc. instead of talking about loan forgiveness for those drat spoiled college kids from the coasts.

This is spot on.

I grew up off a red dirt road, AMA

Alexeythegreat posted:

This is getting dangerously close to D&D

No one has been called a nazi yet, so we're still miles away.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 15:37

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

RFX posted:

Thanks! This thread actually was a big reason - I think it was Slyfrog (sorry if not) who was being very open and made me realize that I had issues to address as well and I needed to take some sort of action.

I'm genuinely glad if anything I said helped.

I have since moved on to reforming the liberal movement, and preparing for the true goal - glorious revolution and putting the tools of production into the hands of the people.

SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 16, 2018

# ? Aug 16, 2018 15:41

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

Alexeythegreat posted:

This is getting dangerously close to D&D

I don't think so, at least I hope not. I'm not actually debating anything. My point has nothing to do with which side is "right," which policies are right, etc. Simply pointing out why rural Americans, poor Americans, etc. might seem to be voting against their interests.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 15:47

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

SlyFrog posted:

I don't think so, at least I hope not. I'm not actually debating anything. My point has nothing to do with which side is "right," which policies are right, etc. Simply pointing out why rural Americans, poor Americans, etc. might seem to be voting against their interests.

I agree this is a lot of it. The problem is that both the Hillbilly Elegy take and the burn them all down take can be true. Those people "don't really care" about minorities either way and just want their old jobs back, but when push comes to shove they'd really rather those minorities hosed off back where they came from and are happy the orange man on TV says what everyone really thinks about it.

See, e.g., every Trump voter quote from the past 24 months.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 16:31

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

SlyFrog posted:

I don't think so, at least I hope not. I'm not actually debating anything. My point has nothing to do with which side is "right," which policies are right, etc. Simply pointing out why rural Americans, poor Americans, etc. might seem to be voting against their interests.

Starve my children and kill my grandparents to own the libs

# ? Aug 16, 2018 16:38

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

SlyFrog posted:

I think they primarily don't give a gently caress, and wonder why so much time is spent on figuring out which bathrooms people can use when they can't get decent paying jobs and are dying en masse from poor health care, drug epidemics, etc., and are seeing their purchasing power just get destroyed by growing wealth inequality. The difference is, to them, wealth inequality is solved magically by giving them more opportunities, rather than taking something from those who already have.

if only there was a political movement that they could support that would address these issues

# ? Aug 16, 2018 16:42

Nice piece of fish: Jan 29, 2008; Ultra Carp

Soothing Vapors posted:

if only there was a political movement that they could support that would address these issues

That's the point. To them, there kind of isn't.

I like Mark Blythes take on it but my girlfriend is a civil economist and says I should stop listening to youtube. Luckily I dont listen to econ people.

https://youtu.be/BsqGITb0W4A

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:01

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Adar posted:

I agree this is a lot of it. The problem is that both the Hillbilly Elegy take and the burn them all down take can be true. Those people "don't really care" about minorities either way and just want their old jobs back, but when push comes to shove they'd really rather those minorities hosed off back where they came from and are happy the orange man on TV says what everyone really thinks about it.

See, e.g., every Trump voter quote from the past 24 months.

The true ratio of people who think, "those people shouldn't have ______________ specifically because they're a minority." to those who feel like "those people shouldn't have ______________ before me/other people just because they're a minority." is probably very low.

Most people are ascribing a level of cognitive processing to the second kind of person that they just aren't capable of/not interested in. A thoughtful person will work through the fact that parts of society are fundamentally stacked against the poor and against minorities, and that it takes creative problem solving to upend entrenched social blocks to upward mobility. They'd be able to separate issues of pure inequality (police profiling) with issues of fundamental inequality (college admission preferences).

A less thoughtful person will only see raw information that feels unfair to their fundamental principals of self-reliance, and what their learned notion of equality is.

Additionally, a less thoughtful person on the other side of the issue might take the same kind of shortcut when analyzing those people and say, "well they're just hateful bigots."

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:21

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Of course, the Most thoughtful person will use QUANTUM GRAMMAR to syntax the issue into resolution

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:23

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Hillbilly elegy was written by some suburban dude from Ohio he doesn't know poo poo

Hoshi posted:

Hot take: nuke the Midwest

*Pats big lakes of fresh water*

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:39

terrorist ambulance: Nov 5, 2009

SlyFrog posted:

Y'all need to read Hillbilly Elegy. Having grown up in a rural area, it explains it pretty well.

Poor white people do not want to hear about trans issues, gay rights, minorities, and feminism. Nor do they want to be told how stupid they are, how racist they are, how sexist they are, and how enlightened their betters in government and other positions of leadership are.

Liberalism, especially the form presented online, is frightening to them, because most of it is babbling about rights for people they'll never meet, while completely disparaging the rural and poor as some sort of racist, monstrous others.

They see Bernie Sanders as voting money to entitled, spoiled college kids, while their own kids can't find jobs after high school.

They're going to vote against their interests for so long as liberals are too stupid to sound like they care about their interests.

What a load of stupid poo poo

# ? Aug 16, 2018 18:46

terrorist ambulance: Nov 5, 2009

See, here in cowboy country, aka real america, we dont got any gays. *pays a 16 year old to let him sick him off before church*

# ? Aug 16, 2018 18:47

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

It's honestly a lot simpler. You go well poo poo my white privilege everyone tells me to be guilty about hasnt gotten me jack poo poo and now the politicians want to help everyone but me , gently caress that

# ? Aug 16, 2018 19:09

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

america bad

# ? Aug 16, 2018 19:13

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

terrorist ambulance posted:

What a load of stupid poo poo

Which part, that people are dismissive and close-minded? Or condescending and patronizing?

Adar posted:

I agree this is a lot of it. The problem is that both the Hillbilly Elegy take and the burn them all down take can be true. Those people "don't really care" about minorities either way and just want their old jobs back, but when push comes to shove they'd really rather those minorities hosed off back where they came from and are happy the orange man on TV says what everyone really thinks about it.

See, e.g., every Trump voter quote from the past 24 months.

I think that is also probably correct for a lot of them. Or they want minorities to "be like them." Not wearing their drat head scarves and speaking those gibberish languages and such.

SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Aug 16, 2018

# ? Aug 16, 2018 20:05

The Dagda: Nov 22, 2005

Soothing Vapors posted:

america bad

Correct

# ? Aug 16, 2018 20:05

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

america good

humans bad

# ? Aug 16, 2018 20:07

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

I heard a sick rumor that there were Yankees fans in this here thread.

Hey, are you {{{Yankish}}}?

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 16, 2018

# ? Aug 16, 2018 20:12

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

Discendo Vox posted:

I heard a sick rumor that there were Yankees fans in this here thread.

Hey, are you Yankish?

Needs [[[Yankish]]].

I'm just glad that here in the Law School & Lawyer Megathread #13, we're all enlightened, kind souls who love all of our brothers and sisters and do not have hearts full of hate.

Big hugs for all. (I cannot find the drat "hug" icon.)

SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 16, 2018

# ? Aug 16, 2018 20:58

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

SlyFrog posted:

Y'all need to read Hillbilly Elegy.

Ha, like I'd voluntarily read a book written by a Yale graduate. I suffered through enough of that in law school.

Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Aug 16, 2018

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:03

Toona the Cat: Jun 9, 2004; The Greatest

Everyone knows that Jews are Mets fans.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:04

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

SlyFrog posted:

Which part, that people are dismissive and close-minded? Or condescending and patronizing?

SlyBurn

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:06

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Toona the Cat posted:

Everyone knows that Jews are Mets fans.

There's no way that jews waste their money on such an worthless product

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:08

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

terrorist ambulance posted:

What a load of stupid poo poo

"Vance escaped their fate by joining the Marines and serving in Iraq. Afterward, he attended Ohio State and Yale Law School, where he was mentored by Amy Chua, the law professor and tiger mom. He now lives in San Francisco, where he works at Mithril Capital Management, the investment firm helmed by Peter Thiel."

He speaks for, uh, someone.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:15

Hoshi: Jan 20, 2013

Vox Nihili posted:

"Vance escaped their fate by joining the Marines and serving in Iraq. Afterward, he attended Ohio State and Yale Law School, where he was mentored by Amy Chua, the law professor and tiger mom. He now lives in San Francisco, where he works at Mithril Capital Management, the investment firm helmed by Peter Thiel."

He speaks for, uh, someone.

lmao

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:17

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Vox Nihili posted:

"Vance escaped their fate by joining the Marines and serving in Iraq. Afterward, he attended Ohio State and Yale Law School, where he was mentored by Amy Chua, the law professor and tiger mom. He now lives in San Francisco, where he works at Mithril Capital Management, the investment firm helmed by Peter Thiel."

He speaks for, uh, someone.

You missed the sentence right before that:

quote:

His family struggled with poverty and domestic violence, of which he was a victim. His mother was addicted to drugs�first to painkillers, then to heroin. Many of his neighbors were jobless and on welfare.

Sounds like he speaks for lots of people.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:29

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

His solutions for those neighbors are seemingly 1) cut welfare and 2) improve the "culture" of those communities... somehow. It's the same prescription that the GOP has for inner-city black communities. He provides a sympathetic backstory for evil.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:39

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

guy wins lottery; pens book on winning lottery as the key to escaping poverty

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:43

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

mastershakeman posted:

There's no way that jews waste their money on such an worthless product

As a proud Jewish Knicks and Jets fan, I

gently caress

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:50

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

mastershakeman posted:

There's no way that jews waste their money on such an worthless product

Jesus Christ.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:02

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

Vox Nihili posted:

His solutions for those neighbors are seemingly 1) cut welfare and 2) improve the "culture" of those communities... somehow. It's the same prescription that the GOP has for inner-city black communities. He provides a sympathetic backstory for evil.

Is he actually conservative? I honestly don't know. Someone suggested the book to me for a very different reason - understanding why, even when you leave poverty and abuse behind and become successful, that things don't magically become better.

I didn't know he was pro-conservative.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:19

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Vox Nihili posted:

His solutions for those neighbors are seemingly 1) cut welfare and 2) improve the "culture" of those communities... somehow. It's the same prescription that the GOP has for inner-city black communities. He provides a sympathetic backstory for evil.

Or, you could do I like did and spend 90 seconds reading the article.

quote:

And yet it would be wrong to see Vance�s book as yet another entry in our endless argument about whether this or that group�s poverty is caused by �economic� or �cultural� factors. �Hillbilly Elegy� sees the �economics vs. culture� divide as a dead metaphor�a form of manipulation rather than explanation more likely to conceal the truth than to reveal it.

I know you're trolling but its so convincingly disguised as your standard-fare, faux-progressive twitter rhetoric that it annoys me via placebo effect.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:23

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Adar posted:

As a proud Jewish Knicks and Jets fan, I

gently caress

Gahaha

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:26

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

evilweasel posted:

guy wins lottery; pens book on winning lottery as the key to escaping poverty

Wherein joining the marines, being deployed to Iraq, graduating from college and from Yale is "as easy, as winning the lottery."

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:26

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

blarzgh posted:

Wherein joining the marines, being deployed to Iraq, graduating from college and from Yale is "as easy, as winning the lottery."

Not getting blown up by a random ied is pretty lottery like

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:28

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 5, 2024 12:03

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

mastershakeman posted:

Not getting blown up by a random ied is pretty lottery like

The Butt Locker

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

«‹›528 »