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njsykora posted:Ask in the clan chat and you'll almost certainly get a few people willing to carry you through a hunt. Out of interest, what are the roles for each frame? I've got almost all of the recommended ones but am not sure what their role is. I've got Trinity P, Harrow, Oberon P and Volt. I think Chroma is the only other one I've heard mentioned as needed for Eidolans. Are there any others?
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Aug 17, 2018 09:40
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Chroma isnt needed, but one shotting Eidolons is really really nice.
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Aug 17, 2018 09:47
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Dravs posted:Out of interest, what are the roles for each frame? I've got almost all of the recommended ones but am not sure what their role is. I've got Trinity P, Harrow, Oberon P and Volt. I think Chroma is the only other one I've heard mentioned as needed for Eidolans. Are there any others? Trinity: Gathers lures and keeps them alive with Blessing. Harrow: Presses 4 between phases to keep everyone from getting hit with magnetic procs. Oberon: Can sub in for Harrow, his 2 taking the place of Harrow's 4. Volt: His shield is one of the few ways to increase amp damage, which helps bring dolon shields down quicker. Also buffs sniper damage. Chroma/Rhino: Makes Lanka do big numbers. An appropriately built Limbo can also sub in for Harrow/Oberon.
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Aug 17, 2018 10:06
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Dravs posted:Out of interest, what are the roles for each frame? War Crimes. All of them fill the role of War Crimes.
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Aug 17, 2018 10:09
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I do eidolons runs with randoms, and I feel some people that join the hunt can easily solo the fights. Once you understand the different phases is a really easy battle. Anyone that have played Monster Hunter would not even consider it a fight. My contribution vary from 8% to 20%. I am not a leecher, but sometimes I feel like that doing these runs. So I don't abuse. I do 3 runs, and then call it night. Enough cores to cap my okko faction for the day.
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Aug 17, 2018 10:10
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Yeah, bear in mind that a lot of the 'must have' eidolon advice is from endgame players looking to max their efficiency at tridolons. You can easily join a pubbie group and do 1/2 teralysts per Cetus night cycle with any frame, as long as you have a sniper rifle and amp. Join a group, go to twin horns on the map, grab the lure, kill some Vomvalysts until it turns blue. Find the eidolon, tag it for your group, use your amp / spoiler mode to get rid of the shield. Once the shield is down, snipe whichever joint everyone else is going for (elbows and knees) with your frame weapons, not your amp. If you shoot off a joint and don't have a blue lure, he will escape and you'll have to go find him. Hide in operator void mode whenever he attacks. Your frame will lose its energy occasionally but really it's not a huge deal. This is the part of the fight people say you 'need' Harrow or Oberon for. You probably do if you want max efficiency at all 3, but you can easily take the mag proc on a teralyst just with void mode. After you shoot off all his joints, you have to stop Vomvalysts from getting to his body. The more that get to him, the tougher he is in the last phase. In the last phase bring down his shield with your amp, shoot him where his joints used to be, hide from his attacks in the void. When he dies, pick everything up and fly back to Cetus to do it again. Do not be intimidated by dolons, they're really not that bad as long as you have a sniper rifle and the amp / spoiler mode from Second Dream. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 10:52
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Well I guess I found the best way to grind up your frames and weapons: jump into a defense mission to pop open some relics and accidentally stumble into a group of vets that drag you to round 35  I almost felt bad just because I couldn't keep up. Not that I was doing bad damage, but they were wiping the map faster than I could kill things. At least they got a bunch of Prime prints off me? EDIT: Meant Defense not Survival. Flytrap fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 11:39
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Going past 20m in survival is pretty dumb and pointless though. Not like Excavation where it's still dumb but you're at least getting something from it.
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Aug 17, 2018 11:44
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njsykora posted:Going past 20m in survival is pretty dumb and pointless though. Not like Excavation where it's still dumb but you're at least getting something from it. First time I went to 40m in Survival I got Octavia Neuroptics. Coincidence, but worth it. Also one of the most fun times I had since it was pretty challenging and I had no forma frame/weapons.
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Aug 17, 2018 12:44
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What's the best way to get orokin catalysts?
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Aug 17, 2018 12:48
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Gort posted:What's the best way to get orokin catalysts? Wait for them to show up as alerts or invasions. They don't show up often and getting them from sorties is pretty rare as well. When there's a devstream though there'll pretty much always be a catalyst alert.
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Aug 17, 2018 12:53
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Yeah, bear in mind that a lot of the 'must have' eidolon advice is from endgame players looking to max their efficiency at tridolons. I needed standing for the new amp parts, so I went hunting yesterday. I hadn't hunted any Eidolons in a few months, and even before that I was just a filthy casual. I brought my Harrow and joined a random group through the bounty board. We took down a Teralyst in ten minutes, then I quit the squad and went back out. Seven minutes. By the end of the night I had killed 6 Teralysts with 6 different groups of random pubbies, and I didn't contribute much beyond grabbing a lure, zapping the shields and occasionally hitting 4. Pubbies these days have Eidolon hunting down to a science. If you've never fought Eidolons before, just take the Teralyst bounty from Konzu and join a public squad. You'll probably be fine, but even if you completely gently caress everything up you'll probably never see them again.
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Aug 17, 2018 13:02
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Avulsion posted:I needed standing for the new amp parts, so I went hunting yesterday. I hadn't hunted any Eidolons in a few months, and even before that I was just a filthy casual. I brought my Harrow and joined a random group through the bounty board. We took down a Teralyst in ten minutes, then I quit the squad and went back out. Seven minutes. By the end of the night I had killed 6 Teralysts with 6 different groups of random pubbies, and I didn't contribute much beyond grabbing a lure, zapping the shields and occasionally hitting 4. Oh wow, I didn't even realise the Eidolans were a bounty. If i can't get a group I will try that tonight.
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Aug 17, 2018 13:46
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They're not "really" like a bounty, but they're available on the bounty board during nights, so you can get autogrouped with people who are also looking to do dolans.
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Aug 17, 2018 13:53
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Helter Skelter posted:Very basic roles: A Full-Power Strength Octavia is a very strong dolon killing alternative to Chroma too. Upwards of 400% damage for the entire group as long as they stand in the disco floor. Horace Kinch fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 13:53
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Yeah there's a ton of ways to kill a dolon once the shields are down, but I think the only way to bring shields down faster is void strike or volt shield?
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Aug 17, 2018 14:01
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Sarsapariller posted:***A Children's Treasury Of Warcrimes*** Interesting, thanks. Time to spend some forma.
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Aug 17, 2018 14:24
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Rewards for long excavs and kuva survivals really need to scale up with time.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:13
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Same for defence and excavation. When the pattern loops back to A it should at least give you two rewards, or give you a bonus to your roll on the loot table There should be an item you can pop before an endless mission which improves your rolls or something, but the matchmaking will only match you with other people who used one of these items. That way you can guarantee (barring disconnects or real world emergencies) you get a team who are planning to stay for 4 rounds / 20 minutes.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:23
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Same for defence and excavation. When the pattern loops back to A it should at least give you two rewards, or give you a bonus to your roll on the loot table Really they should just make the rotation: AABC-ABC-BC-C-C-C.... It's just punishing for force AA and makes it just not worth hanging out for that eventual C unless you are also resource farming.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:33
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Dravs posted:Ok, so I started the sacrifice quest and found that it is a loving miserable experience with the mote amp. I think I need to kill a couple Eidolans so that I can upgrade it to at least the first tier amp? Going to be trying one tonight I think. Is it easy to get a group for them (considering I am likely to be dead weight)? Building my first amp was the most unfun I have had in Warframe. You have to figure out fishing and progress through it enough to get Murkray Bait, which requires specific fish parts from 3 different fish. You need to grind through mining and get enough Devar gem poo poo. Then you need to just run loops through the plains at night collecting Cetus Wisps. And you need enough Cetus and Quill standing to unlock/purchase the blueprints for the stuff just to do the grind. Even with guides telling me the best (or only) spots to go for some of this stuff - none of which is mentioned in game of course - it was still an excercise in forced grind and tedium. I would have just paid plat for some of the stuff but at 1-5 plat per part the first mote would have cost like 200 plat. In short, gently caress the Plains of Eidolan content. It's come pretty close to making me want to put away the game.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:41
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FileNotFound posted:Really they should just make the rotation: To be honest, I kinda like the current system b/c there is no expectation to stay past 20 (maybe 25) minutes. Many days, that's about all the time I have.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:52
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njsykora posted:Going past 20m in survival is pretty dumb and pointless though. Not like Excavation where it's still dumb but you're at least getting something from it. If you're in a fissure there's a benefit to staying up to 25 minutes/waves in endless missions: you get a free pre-refined relic. But beyond that, yeah, if it's not Taveuni it's not worthwhile.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:05
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Yeah, bear in mind that a lot of the 'must have' eidolon advice is from endgame players looking to max their efficiency at tridolons. A good summary, and please do jump into some pub or chill runs because dolons really do drop a lot of stuff you will need eventually. Arcanes are a major power boost for most frames, when fully finished. I've given up on running tryhard groups at this point. It is basically inevitable that I will spend 30 minutes pulling 4 experienced people together with exactly the right frames, auras, and focus schools and then get into the mission 15 minutes early to charge VS, only to learn that one person who x'd up for your explicitly tryhard run hasn't ever done more than a 1x3/brought the wrong school and you forgot to set it to invite-only so they quit and a pub pops in to replace them/didn't bring any AW charges/has connection issues and drops halfway through. Due to the stupid time-gated nature of Eidolons here's no way to recover from a few minutes lost to a bad start, and you've basically spent an hour preparing for what will turn out to be a 2x3 run that you could have just launched right into at nightfall. This is not a callout of anyone who's been in runs with me. I screw something up myself every other run and Warframe itself is a right buggy mess which makes optimal Dolons really hard to do. Rather than get angry at people in those runs I try to just accept that it's going to be a lower return run and teach it as a training experience, maybe getting a new name for my "invite these people to your dolons first" list. But the wasted time, day after day, is intensely frustrating and it is easy to understand why long time dolon runners are notoriously snippy toward less prepared people joining the run. The concept of a boss rush game mode is an interesting one, but the stupid time gate on the Eidolon run is poorly designed and incompatible with the casual pick-up game nature of everything else in Warframe. It should be a trio of bosses that you can participate in once a day, at any time, just like sorties.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:11
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gaj70 posted:To be honest, I kinda like the current system b/c there is no expectation to stay past 20 (maybe 25) minutes. Many days, that's about all the time I have. I just don't like the fact that the only challenging content that rewards appropriately to the difficulty is Sorties. I just feel stupid killing high level enemies for poo poo rewards.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:14
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The Saddest Robot posted:Building my first amp was the most unfun I have had in Warframe. You have to figure out fishing and progress through it enough to get Murkray Bait, which requires specific fish parts from 3 different fish. You need to grind through mining and get enough Devar gem poo poo. Then you need to just run loops through the plains at night collecting Cetus Wisps. And you need enough Cetus and Quill standing to unlock/purchase the blueprints for the stuff just to do the grind. Even with guides telling me the best (or only) spots to go for some of this stuff - none of which is mentioned in game of course - it was still an excercise in forced grind and tedium. My favorite part of PoE is the way everything is too large, it's pretty nice, the way a game currently built being a supersonic magic ninja puts literal minutes of slide then bullet jump in a straight line in the way of getting anywhere.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:22
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in a way it would be neat if the rewards would start scaling but they better loving put in a way for me to solo extract from a survival so i don't have to be held hostage by a handful of dumbshits who aren't geared for it and keep getting downed but are apparently determined to stay for 30+ minutes when i want to leave at 20
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Aug 17, 2018 16:26
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Sarsapariller posted:The concept of a boss rush game mode is an interesting one, but the stupid time gate on the Eidolon run is poorly designed and incompatible with the casual pick-up game nature of everything else in Warframe. It should be a trio of bosses that you can participate in once a day, at any time, just like sorties.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:28
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gaj70 posted:To be honest, I kinda like the current system b/c there is no expectation to stay past 20 (maybe 25) minutes. Many days, that's about all the time I have. At the moment the reward structure for endless is all screwed up because they don't want people who queued for 20 getting dragged through to 25, and my attempts to get to round 20 are routinely screwed up by people who just want to quit after 5 rounds. And i've lost everything on survivals where people have stayed past 20, I was the only person trying to extract, and a bunch of blueberries stayed out only to wipe at the 24th minute. Sarsapariller posted:A good summary, and please do jump into some pub or chill runs because dolons really do drop a lot of stuff you will need eventually. Arcanes are a major power boost for most frames, when fully finished. If you have a frame & sniper rifle at rank 30, have finished War Within and gotten the mote amp from the Quills, you can do eidolons. Hell, Vectis is an MR2 sniper rifle and perfectly serviceable, and Volt is one of the more useful frames for dolons, and it's available from the dojo or as a starter frame. It'll be nowhere near as fast or efficient as a focused group, but it is absolutely doable, and nothing to be afraid of. I see some people who are doing sorties who are still putting eidolons off. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 16:40
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Same for defence and excavation. When the pattern loops back to A it should at least give you two rewards, or give you a bonus to your roll on the loot table Something that would let you preselect a duration would help a lot. But with DE looking to make all infinite missions have an extraction option like Interception/Defense do, will help somewhat. edit Johnny Joestar posted:in a way it would be neat if the rewards would start scaling but they better loving put in a way for me to solo extract from a survival so i don't have to be held hostage by a handful of dumbshits who aren't geared for it and keep getting downed but are apparently determined to stay for 30+ minutes when i want to leave at 20 Lucky you, this is a thing thats happening. Or is in the works. Either way, DE is looking at it. Nothing against you, but this kinda crap is why I don't do Tridolons. It is bad enough, when some uppity rear end in a top hat starts yelling at pubbies who queued into regular Teralyst in random frames, without proper weapons. I don't have the super cookie cutter build that people want you to run to minmax that poo poo. I've been given grief for using Atlas on tera, but on the flip side, I've solo'd tera for some guys who had no idea how that poo poo worked, and accidently ran a "Eidolons and You. 101" Its not just pubbies that do it either. I had someone from the goon community in D3 doing that poo poo to me previously. I want to run tri a few times, just to get the statues of Gant and Hydro, then be done with it. I'm not going to blind pubbie queue for them, because I've only killed gant once, hydro sounds tense as hell, and I don't want to be the weak link that fucks it up for the rest of the group. Same poo poo with the new boss on Venus. I want to do it, will probably try to pub it someday, but hate how elite and cliquey the people who run that kinda content can get. Its not mandatory to have all that specific stuff, it just helps make it faster for doing it repeatedly.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:44
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TheAgent posted:This is the answer, right here. PoE really does feel like "Developers First Open-World" so I can cut them some slack (some, not a lot), but they should changed it to this months and months ago. one triple eidolon is what, ten minutes of content for a fully geared out group? i'm not sure that's the best option. Being able to queue into Cetus night at any time, absolutely, limiting to 1 triple a day seems like a real scaling problem. sortie is three missions in a chain with conditions; it's more than just one run. I'd like to see the possibility of more than just one triple even if I personally don't grind out 5x3s like clockwork every day, you know? Hobold posted:I don't have the super cookie cutter build that people want you to run to minmax that poo poo. I've been given grief for using Atlas on tera, but on the flip side, I've solo'd tera for some guys who had no idea how that poo poo worked, and accidently ran a "Eidolons and You. 101" Its not just pubbies that do it either. I had someone from the goon community in D3 doing that poo poo to me previously. I'd say people can get a little testy because the cetus night clock is ticking and that is frustrating to deal with and sure, maybe someone will take out clock frustration on a fellow player and that's rude. But it also sounds like you're not willing to bend even a little and bring the frames best suited to the content. If you are willing, then there's no problem and you won't be the weak link that you don't want to be. 'Mandatory' minimum and '5x3 optimal' gear are a far distance apart. The problem here is communication, not elitism. If everyone's on the same page, it works out. From experience, I've had this work out anywhere from a "let's dunk the first one repeatedly to teach newbies" to "let's 1x3 because we're making mistakes but learning" to a 3x3 or better speedcap extravaganza and people have been very generous helping me and many others get on their feet for eidolons. Psion fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 16:58
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Psion posted:one triple eidolon is what, ten minutes of content for a fully geared out group? i'm not sure that's the best option. Being able to queue into Cetus night at any time, absolutely, limiting to 1 triple a day seems like a real scaling problem. I don't have a problem readjusting myself to bring whats better suited for the fight, if I have it. I don't have most of the 'top' frames for fighting eidolons, I don't have the best mods to throw on guns because I've not been around long enough to get them from baro, or wherever else they came from. I've even gone out of my way to get/build/forma a Lanka for the fights to bring something better than just amp damage to the table. I just can't magic vaulted frames into my inventory, or rare mods, without throwing tons of plat at the problem. When people start treating others like they should already have everything coming into it, it starts to be an issue. Yelling at some poor guy using amp mote on tera, beacuse he's trying to get standing to even get access to better parts, is not conductive. At some point, I question why these people even bother to pub run, when they're going to complain and get hostile as much as they do. I've seen a lot of people fully capable of soloing tera, screaming at noobs for trying to learn.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:20
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If you want to do all 3 eidolons, ask in guild chat. This is a problem on console where there's usually only the same 3 people online, I'm one of them, and I'm horribly antisocial. But on PC, you can almost certainly find a group who (if you ask just as it turns to night in Cetus) won't mind doing a treble just to help you learn where to go and what to do. But if you just need eidolon stuff, pubbie queue for teralyst and go nuts, you'll easily get enough to get a basic non-mote amp for the sacrifice.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:22
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i see two issues a) don't pub eidolons because you can't communicate expectations so of course it goes to poo poo. also people are scum. I don't think it's a coincidence my experience has been positive and I've never pubbed a eidolon. b) Hobold posted:I don't have a problem readjusting myself to bring whats better suited for the fight, if I have it. I don't have most of the 'top' frames for fighting eidolons, I don't have the best mods to throw on guns because I've not been around long enough to get them from baro, or wherever else they came from. I've even gone out of my way to get/build/forma a Lanka for the fights to bring something better than just amp damage to the table. I just can't magic vaulted frames into my inventory, or rare mods, without throwing tons of plat at the problem. literally having any of volt, trinity, harrow and a not-mote is 90% of the way there. Again there is a huge gulf between minimum and 5x3 optimal. I think the rarest mod my Trinity uses is an Augur Secrets, which sure, obnoxious to farm, but I could just slot power drift. I am hard pressed to think of any vaulted equipment which is essential for eidolons. If you literally can't bring one of those then just - wait? Eidolons will still be there. There is no point in making yourself miserable trying to grind it now if you could take the time to get the gear to sail through it in a month. eidolons are the only content in this game (RIP raids, I don't miss you JV) which ask for that kind of gear and team comp setup; they're pretty endgamey if that term even means anything in Warframe. as always, the game fails to communicate things well to the players, but it's true  Psion fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 17:27
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I think the problem is that saying "a not-mote amp" is a minimum kinda clashes with the idea that doing eidolons is one of the only ways to really get a non-mote amp. It also doesn't help that everything out there as far as guides and poo poo is all "TRINITY IS THE MOST HARDEST/MOST ESSENTIAL ROLE" and then... never talks about what the gently caress you're supposed to do. "Oh go get lures", great, can I get some details? No? Okay. At least discord hooked me up with some videos and stuff but man poo poo about eidolons tends to be impenetrable trying to research on your own.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:38
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The "don't pub it unless you can solo it or you'll have a bad time" rule still extends to dolons. I pubbed a few Teralysts (usually when there wasn't enough time left to get a team together) and I usually had a p decent time cause I could carry them. Hell, almost every time they would be at least one player still rocking the chest beam and I just thought it was pretty quaint.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:38
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Kyrosiris posted:I think the problem is that saying "a not-mote amp" is a minimum kinda clashes with the idea that doing eidolons is one of the only ways to really get a non-mote amp. I kinda phrased that poorly; the frame is essential, the amp should be your first stop. And yes I agree learning how to do the roles is completely awful, I've talked about that before. Eidolon training runs are essential but you gotta get 3 people to agree to run one, and that's tough! I have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to learn eidolons but I also recognize the design of eidolons as a whole system is basically rewarding people for demanding optimization. trying to learn them while undergeared in pubs is a recipe for disaster. you're right about the lack of guides - i don't think I'd know how to be a trinity if someone hadn't posted a lure map. Of all the things not to post when people say the role is essential... Psion fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 17:41
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Psion posted:I kinda phrased that poorly; the frame is essential, the amp should be your first stop. And yes I agree learning how to do the roles is completely awful, I've talked about that before. Eidolon training runs are essential but you gotta get 3 people to agree to run one, and that's tough! I have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to learn eidolons but I also recognize the design of eidolons as a whole system is basically rewarding people for demanding optimization. Yeah, that's fair. Sorry for the misinterpretation re: the amp, though. I think the frustration there is that people run into showstoppers (or at least slogs) with just the Mote Amp, look up the route to something better which is a big neon sign that says "KILL EIDOLONS, KIDDO", try to do that and bounce right off because of (completely fair) expectations that clash with the idea of "I'm completely brand new and want a non-poo poo amp, halp". I may give the whole pub route a try this weekend just for a lark and to maybe practice lure wrangling (assuming I can farm the oxium for the AW launcher ship segment), because pubbies getting mad at me for loving up doesn't bother me as much as people I ostensibly care about in some manner like clannies. It's weird, but brains are stupid.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:46
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I get you. it's complicated, there's a ticking clock, and the roles are both unusual compared to most warframe content and it asks for communicating more than anything else in this game asks for, all with a giant neon laser disco show that has completely opaque "are we succeeding or not?" feedback. anyone who looks at them and says "gently caress that noise" is completely reasonable My guess is DE intended for people to spend time on the plains running bounties a lot to farm up materials, to fish and mine enough to have resources, so that when they moved on to eidolons as the endgame of Cetus grind, they had the resources to quickly get past Mote and have AW launchers and all that. But most plains content sucks and eidolons provide unique rewards so here we are. e: this reminds me, maybe with the doubler i've got right now I should stock up on some fish bits to give away help ease that piece of amp building bullshit Psion fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 17:48
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Alright. I'm going to be stupid here. I get why the Volt is wanted, for that shield dps boost. Harrow/Oberon are to prevent mag damage from the scream that you can just void cloak out of. Why is Trinity there. I've heard people say she's for keeping lures alive, but in the 40-50 teras I've run, as Atlas, I've only ever lost like 3. Still not really sure how any of them died, they were just there one second, gone the next. I do think there is a bit of a miscommunication on my part. I don't want to do Tri to farm. I really don't care about them, and I'm totally fine just running 3-5 teras a night for Shards to convert. All I want is the statues to put in my orbiter. (I am vain and want them for my orbiter because I can and thats it.) Even the mods that Gant/Hydro drop are fairly cheap when buying them from other players, 10-20p each for all the damage type mods.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:54
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