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The Paulician Patriarch is always a badass in my Ck2+ games, I think he gets event troops or something. He tends to carve out a little empire in Anatolia until the Byzantines notice and eat him.
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Aug 17, 2018 09:58
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Dev diary covering the most hotly requested mechanic yet - fitness. e: 
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 13:06
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Silly, but good.
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Aug 17, 2018 13:29
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Dev diary covering the most hotly requested mechanic yet - fitness. I never knew I needed that, but now I do
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Aug 17, 2018 14:15
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Nightgull posted:The Paulician Patriarch is always a badass in my Ck2+ games, I think he gets event troops or something. He tends to carve out a little empire in Anatolia until the Byzantines notice and eat him. Yeah CK2+/HIP Paulicians can punch way above their weight. In addition to the crusades, they can raid, declare holy wars against other Christians, and spend piety to summon an army of fanatics during wartime.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:04
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Dev diary covering the most hotly requested mechanic yet - fitness. I would appreciate that as I'm doing a Manderly playthrough in the AGOT mod and they're all pretty drat fat.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:47
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I'm just going to lock up anyone who is thinner than me. In CK2 and someday, god willing, real life.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:57
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I'm dissatisfied that "fat" only makes your portrait somewhat more chubby, there should be another tier above that where you turn into a full-on thumbhead lardass. 
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Aug 17, 2018 17:23
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DrSunshine posted:I'm dissatisfied that "fat" only makes your portrait somewhat more chubby, there should be another tier above that where you turn into a full-on thumbhead lardass.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:26
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What it really needs is the possibility for your character to be ten feet tall, and made of gold.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:35
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Looking forward to being endlessly cuckolded by a series of the world's fattest, yet suavest, men.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:36
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Strudel Man posted:It's the middle ages. Morbid obesity hasn't been invented yet. Morbid obesity absolutely was a thing in the middle ages, although it was mostly contained to the clergy/nobles because you had to be both rich enough to afford enough food to overeat, and idle enough to not make it up doing manual labor 6 days a week.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:37
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if they dont make gout associated with the fat trait i swear to god
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Aug 17, 2018 19:44
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GHOST_BUTT posted:Looking forward to being endlessly cuckolded by a series of the world's fattest, yet suavest, men. Butt Endlessly Pounded By A Series of the World's Fattest, Yet Suavest, Men
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Aug 17, 2018 19:50
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give me a trait that makes my only mode of transportation some peasants that carry me and my throne around
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Aug 17, 2018 19:51
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Sancho the Fat of Leon allegedly ate 7 meals a day, and was too fat to ride a horse or fit in a carriage. When he got deposed, he went for treatment and had to be carried by four mules to Cordoba where he lost half his weight, and eventually came back to reclaim his throne. https://www.deepdyve.com/lp/springer-journals/more-than-1-000-years-ago-sancho-the-fat-lost-his-kingdom-MZ20WICaIB
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Aug 17, 2018 20:00
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The Mongol general Subotai is said to have become immensely fat in his later years, so fat he was carried around in a palanquin rather than walk. He may already have been too fat to ride a horse long before this, I think he is usually described as commanding battles from atop a raised platform rather than from atop his horse (this may have been both to aid him in giving him a better view of the battlefield, and simply because he was really fat).Sydin posted:Morbid obesity absolutely was a thing in the middle ages, although it was mostly contained to the clergy/nobles because you had to be both rich enough to afford enough food to overeat, and idle enough to not make it up doing manual labor 6 days a week. You're forgetting urban merchants, very often depicted as fat in popular depictions, both modern and contemporary. Alot of them were way richer than most nobles with easier access to luxuries and unlike the nobility were not expected to be soldiers. Hopefully making a mod for superfat dudes who can't ride a horse should be relatively easy if this new feature isn't some kind of hardcoded stuff (which I doubt, probably just some portrait properties stuff and the double chins part of portraits being indexed and referenced differently). Something I'd also like is for the phyiscal appearance of characters or rather their attraction to each other counting for much more when it comes to accepting marriage, possibly with the traits of their parents/guardians also influencing this (say if the parents are whether or not the character you are trying to marry is attracted to you or has a high opinion of you will matter more, than if the parents are cruel, with possibly other traits also playing in here). It should not be trivial for a 50 year old dwarf king to find a bride, even marriages between people with a significant age difference was frowned upon and not as common as often portrayed in fiction (or in game where girls are snatched up the moment they hit 16). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 20:08
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There's something really funny about European's most elite knights all getting owned at once on the Hungarian plains by a guy too obese to walk unaided. e: Literally the greatest general in all of CK2 was one incredibly round boi. Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 20:21
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It goes way way back. There was a Roman senator who had two slaves that followed him around just to carry his huge stomach around. Interestingly i read somewhere that his slaves were also all overweight and he was considered pretty generous. There was also apparently a pharaoh who was also grotesquely obese. His writings include a passage that the best way to die was while eating. It was pretty much only rich and powerful people with the resources that got fat but morbid obesity definitely isn't new.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:23
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More EU4-era, but there's also this broomhandle of a man.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:28
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even more than the issue of its prevalence: being fat (or at least chubby) was often a marker of status, even a marker of beauty. since by definition you had to be rich and powerful to be fat.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:34
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Zane posted:even more than the issue of its prevalence: being fat (or at least chubby) was often a marker of status, even a market of beauty. since by definition you had to be rich and powerful to be fat. Is this really true? I've not heard it said alot by people but not really seen it evident in actually reading about Medieval history. People certainly did prize wide hips in women, for the simple reason that it meant they were more likely to survive childbirth (let alone multiple childbirths)*, though that will be more a bone thing rather than a thin/fat thing. As for being fat being a marker of status or even beauty, I dunno. Remember that the aristocracy was a military class, expected to be full-time soldiers fighting from horseback and trained from childhood. Though it doubtless happened that some or many turned out fat and idle, I doubt that would be viewed as honorable by their peers or society at large. The same kind of goes for the clergy, I remember reading multiple times about medieval Church and monastic reformers deploring the existence of fat priests and monks viewing it as shameful. *I think alot of modern people fail to realize that for much of history women tended to die much younger than men, due to childbirth actually being pretty damned hazardous to your health. Though CK2 of course does portray this, with childbirth indeed being quite risky (though there may be some mods I'm playing with that makes it much more prevalent than in vanilla). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 20:40
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It's not super uncommon in vanilla either. I lose a few wives to child birth every play through, seems like. Also pooping. A lot of people die because of pooping.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:54
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smh if my leader doesn't look like this 
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Aug 17, 2018 20:57
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Randarkman posted:Is this really true? rich/large clothing:  rich/large body: 
Zane fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 21:02
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Randarkman posted:Is this really true? I've not heard it said alot by people but not really seen it evident in actually reading about Medieval history. People certainly did prize wide hips in women, for the simple reason that it meant they were more likely to survive childbirth (let alone multiple childbirths)*, though that will be more a bone thing rather than a thin/fat thing. As for being fat being a marker of status or even beauty, I dunno. what is considered attractive changes due to time and place, but a lot of it is about communicating status. in east asia, having super pale skin is great because it means you sit inside all of the time and dont work outdoors. in america having super tanned skin is great because it means you have the luxury of running around outdoors in your ample free time.  nonsense about childbearing hips isn't going to matter as much as "drat, she's fat, she must have a lot of money"also in the modern era we have skewed standards of physical beauty because we can see millions of people and so the truly, 10/10 most attractive faces and bodies gather more attention. you have probably seen more faces in your life than all of your grandparents combined. so "drat, she/he is really hot" is different when you have a pool of billions of people to look at instead of a few hundred thousand
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Aug 17, 2018 21:09
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luxury handset posted:what is considered attractive changes due to time and place, but a lot of it is about communicating status. in east asia, having super pale skin is great because it means you sit inside all of the time and dont work outdoors. in america having super tanned skin is great because it means you have the luxury of running around outdoors in your ample free time. There's also degrees of fat. Being a bit plump can still look real nice, thicc as the kids say these days. While being a size 2 runway model probably wasn't something many people aspired to back in the day, because thin quickly drops to skeletal in years when the crops fail. Being so morbidly obese that she gets out of breath walking up stairs to the second floor probably wasn't considered attractive either though. Facebook Aunt fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 21:21
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That's the reason I've normally heard given for how people during the Renaissance favored all those really poofy styles that made them look about twice as big as they would be otherwise. Fashion does tend to change a lot throughout the centuries though, and I think people have gone back and forth on looking fat or scrawny. I've read that the ancient greeks hated it. Mainly it tends to favor looks that are specifically difficult to pull off, so of course when food became largely plentiful even to the lower class, people started idolizing skinniness. People have gone back and forth on it even relatively recently, which gives things like this song as a weird artifact. I've also seen old movies where women were bemoaning the fact that they weren't flat-chested. Fashion is weird.
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Aug 17, 2018 21:56
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Honky Dong Country posted:Also pooping. A lot of people die because of pooping. New thread title?
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Aug 17, 2018 21:58
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Randarkman posted:The Mongol general Subotai is said to have become immensely fat in his later years, so fat he was carried around in a palanquin rather than walk. He may already have been too fat to ride a horse long before this, I think he is usually described as commanding battles from atop a raised platform rather than from atop his horse (this may have been both to aid him in giving him a better view of the battlefield, and simply because he was really fat).
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Aug 17, 2018 22:12
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Honky Dong Country posted:Also pooping. A lot of people die because of pooping. I prefer to imagine they're all killed by dwarves with crossbows
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Aug 17, 2018 22:41
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Sultan Tarquin posted:smh if my leader doesn't look like this That dude's going to die "taking care of chamber business."
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Aug 17, 2018 22:47
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SlothfulCobra posted:That's the reason I've normally heard given for how people during the Renaissance favored all those really poofy styles that made them look about twice as big as they would be otherwise. Someone mentioned "thicc" up above and I think there's definitely become a trend to be more full-figured in the past decade or two. I mean, there's internet reactionaries screaming about it at the bare minimum.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:06
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Ha, now bad portrait genes (the double chin is annoyingly persistent across generations) are no longer a problem in marriage choices.
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Aug 18, 2018 01:44
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Technowolf posted:New thread title? I agree it's amazing, but please give consideration to the fact it would really cut into the amount of personal amusement I feel whenever an update lines this thread it right up under the Shin Megami Tensei mobile game thread in my Control Panel, a game where you can literally summon Satan and Lucifer, and I get to read "Dx2 Shin Megami Tensei Liberation... ...When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan"
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Aug 18, 2018 03:49
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your horse has died in childbirth
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Aug 18, 2018 04:06
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Bit weird that joining a monastic order makes you thinner imo, since there's an entire genre of painting that is just fat monks drinking, making or looking lovingly at beer. (yes, yes I know they made the beer precisely because they fasted)
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Aug 18, 2018 04:17
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Randarkman posted:Is this really true? I've not heard it said alot by people but not really seen it evident in actually reading about Medieval history. People certainly did prize wide hips in women, for the simple reason that it meant they were more likely to survive childbirth (let alone multiple childbirths)*, though that will be more a bone thing rather than a thin/fat thing. As for being fat being a marker of status or even beauty, I dunno. Remember that the aristocracy was a military class, expected to be full-time soldiers fighting from horseback and trained from childhood. Though it doubtless happened that some or many turned out fat and idle, I doubt that would be viewed as honorable by their peers or society at large. The same kind of goes for the clergy, I remember reading multiple times about medieval Church and monastic reformers deploring the existence of fat priests and monks viewing it as shameful. There's a particular waist to hip ratio that men consider more sexually attractive overall. It isn't wide hips specifically; it's that ratio. Some cultures were more about wide hips; some were more about fat butt but the ratio is pretty much the same. That's the fat a woman's body uses during pregnancy so it get men's attention. Beyond that though "beauty" varies a great deal depending on culture, era, and a gently caress load of things. That's been touched on. Anyway, during much of the Medieval era yes nobility was expected to fight so it's pretty unlikely they could even have the opportunity to get fat. I mean you don't exactly get to 600 pounds by running around and sparring every day. Gluttony is also considered a sin and temperance a virtue so chances are clergy ate very simply and only rarely to excess. It's very unlikely many clergy were fat. Given natural human variation there were probably overweight clergy but full on fat? Unlikely. Granted clergy would also have side jobs like tending the garden. Overall do remember that this was a time where almost nobody got away without doing chores. Everything was done by hand and almost everybody was a subsistence farmer. Very, very few people didn't at least have some kind of a hand in getting their own food. Even royalty stocked the pantry themselves in that they usually hunted. Zane posted:i'm not a big expert but i guess the issue gets more complicated when you break it down into different areas of relevant valuation. as a military matter it was probably important for many nobles to be in shape and to know how to fight. as a more political/aesthetic matter royal portraiture was often keen to emphasize the greatness, largeness, of the ruler's power. and the visual depiction of this power often shifted between motifs of rich/large clothing and a rich/large (fat) body. One thing to note here is that the clothes show off the man's legs. This isn't an accident; also notice the heels. Riding was considered a very upper class thing because horses are expensive. Anybody that could afford a horse wanted to show it off. Heels were originally considered men's footwear as you wore them when riding. Riding also gives you well-developed calves that you wouldn't see on a peasant so they were shown off. The message there was "I can be cavalry when a fight breaks out. That makes me better than you." Showing calves and a sword was basically declaring "yup, I'm a badass." This is also why calves were considered attractive at the time; a man with good calves was pretty much guaranteed to have money and status. Even Henry there is showing off his legs even though it's pretty obvious that he is not a thin man. Being overweight and pale was more of a later thing; I think Renaissance mostly and it was more of a merchant class thing than a nobility thing. There were things like laws that forbid certain types of clothing or certain armaments if you weren't a noble. The merchant class and the growing ranks of freemen in the cities started doing things like "I will demonstrate my wealth by eating myself fat. So there." There were periods where it was considered attractive for a woman to be overweight and pale because that meant she was from a family wealthy enough that she didn't have to work. Chances are you average peasant was a subsistence farmer and in that social class nobody got out of working. If your parents were rich, though, then you could daintily hold a parasol all day while you grew soft from never doing anything strenuous. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Aug 18, 2018 |
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Aug 18, 2018 08:23
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Catalina posted:I agree it's amazing, but please give consideration to the fact it would really cut into the amount of personal amusement I feel whenever an update lines this thread it right up under the Shin Megami Tensei mobile game thread in my Control Panel, a game where you can literally summon Satan and Lucifer, and I get to read I'm not gonna lie I legit chuckle to myself every time I consider that the current thread title not only came from one of my posts but also that post was legit pretty earnest because Satan can solve a lot of problems for you in CK2 if you have M&M. E: like "Ah gently caress I made a horse my doctor and he ruined my dick and balls to cure gout. It's cool though because Satan will fix my giblets." E2: and then you devour a bunch of your own children to absorb their lifeforce and live longer than your wretched rear end has any right to because Hail Satan Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Aug 18, 2018 |
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Aug 18, 2018 08:30
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very nice post! i would only add that the distinction between sword/robe nobility fucks up some of these generalizations by the late-medieval/early modern era. which is to say that by the 1500s and 1600s, as part of broader commercialization of society, many nobles were not feudal warriors any longer, but rather much closer to office holders, administrators, and/or (occasionally) businessmen. which fuzzies the conventional distinction between merchant and nobleman. and is accompanied by numerous (not completed) shifts in values by the time those portraits were being made. which is to say that my own reference to henry viii and louis xiv is quite a bit late as a categorical representation of the 'medieval nobility.' the possibility of my own mistake, however, makes it equally clear that the distinctiveness of nobility as a separate class/status identity--anchored fundamentally in martial prowess--dies late and dies hard. Zane fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Aug 18, 2018 |
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Aug 18, 2018 08:35
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