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Regarding refinements on the Dungeon World engine, there's Worlds of Adventure (still under development), which is a more streamlined Dungeon World hack. It still has the multi-stat Defy Danger move (which is clunky) and damage dice, but otherwise it seems to be a solid improvement all around. Pollyanna posted:Dungeon World games are otherwise typical D&D, which I don’t mind at all. That's cool if you like it, but I can't really wrap my head around it. Lots of D&D's tropes seem to be silly system idiosincrasies that people internalized over the years. Why would one suffer such goofiness once the system no longer imposes it? Re-skinning Apocalypse World (or just using AW Fallen Empires, in which Vincent himself already did the fantasy re-skinning) seems like a better way to take advantage of PbtA's strong points.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:30
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Austria felix nube posted:That's cool if you like it, but I can't really wrap my head around it. Lots of D&D's tropes seem to be silly system idiosincrasies that people internalized over the years. Why would one suffer such goofiness once the system no longer imposes it? Re-skinning Apocalypse World (or just using AW Fallen Empires, in which Vincent himself already did the fantasy re-skinning) seems like a better way to take advantage of PbtA's strong points. What tropes and idiosyncrasies do we mean here? I’m speaking of the classical D&D motivation: dungeon diving and questing for treasure and glory in a fantasy world where fantastical creatures and entities are everywhere ala TAZ or Critical Role. The sandbox, basically. d20s and AC and classical stats and whatever I don’t actually give a drat about. And there’s stuff I don’t really care for in D&D or DW either, like the long journey rules or the followers ‘n poo poo. I think I’ll check out Fallen Empires - it might be a good fit!
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Aug 17, 2018 18:35
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Pollyanna posted:...there’s just something I like about Dungeon World and its relatively gritty, more dungeon-y sandbox-y nature. Scratches a different itch.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:57
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Pollyanna posted:What tropes and idiosyncrasies do we mean here? I’m speaking of the classical D&D motivation: dungeon diving and questing for treasure and glory in a fantasy world where fantastical creatures and entities are everywhere ala TAZ or Critical Role. The sandbox, basically. d20s and AC and classical stats and whatever I don’t actually give a drat about. And there’s stuff I don’t really care for in D&D or DW either, like the long journey rules or the followers ‘n poo poo. The ones I can list off of the top of my head are XP (instead of just periodic leveling) and HP (instead of Harm).
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Aug 17, 2018 19:42
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Yeah XP isn’t that great and HP i haven’t run face-first into yet so I don’t recall what the problem with it is. Is it just the 1hp fine, 0hp dead thing?
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Aug 17, 2018 20:20
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Xelkelvos posted:is it weird that I think the MtG colors could be used as stats for a PbtA-type game? White for protecting/defending/healing, Blue for Intuiting/Avoiding, Black for Bargaining/Sneaking, Red for Destroying, and Green for Physicality/Mana stuff. I kinda like MTG colour-stats.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:24
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spectralent posted:I kinda like MTG colour-stats. WotC did a lot to really define what the colors represent. There's a few gaps, I think, that aren't represented by any color (other than working with Artifice), but that's usually solved by finding something similar that is covered and stretching it. The other side, which is more interesting is where colors overlap and how it's possible to do the same things, but under different methods and end goals. As an example: Hurting someone can be accomplished with three different colors with three different intents. Black aims to injure, regardless of cost. You WILL deal harm, but it might cost you. Red aims to break. You WILL break something, but others might get caught up in it. Green is largely a show of force. You MIGHT deal harm, but you're not risking much if you fail other than maybe a bruised ego. Avoiding harm is also something that can be accomplished with three colors. Green is a show of endurance. You WILL get hit, but you might be strong enough to take it. White is about protection. You WILL get hit, but you can at least make sure nothing else is in harm's way. Blue is straight avoidance. You MIGHT not get hit, but there a chance that you or someone else will take it also.
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Aug 17, 2018 21:03
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Xelkelvos posted:WotC did a lot to really define what the colors represent. There's a few gaps, I think, that aren't represented by any color (other than working with Artifice), but that's usually solved by finding something similar that is covered and stretching it. The other side, which is more interesting is where colors overlap and how it's possible to do the same things, but under different methods and end goals. Maybe you have a selection of options but one's auto pick depending on colour, or something?
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Aug 17, 2018 22:02
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spectralent posted:Maybe you have a selection of options but one's auto pick depending on colour, or something? Take the option(s) for the color(s) used for the spell. On a 10+ choose 2. On a 7-9 choose 1.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:25
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I really like the idea of MTG colors as stats. Somehow, they seem to fit well.
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Aug 18, 2018 01:16
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Pollyanna posted:Trying to carefully study your opponent’s attacks, synthesize that information into a pattern you can exploit, and dodge out of the way of the next attack is at least three distinct actions. That’s too much at once - I’d interpret this as trying to exercise your perceptive abilities under pressure and call for +Wisdom. Then, depending on that, you might be able to understand what happens and get a chance at moving out of the way. That kind of granularity is more of a D&Dism than a PBTA thing. Apocalypse World tends to promote drilling down as much as is narratively interesting and no more.
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Aug 18, 2018 01:47
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malkav11 posted:That kind of granularity is more of a D&Dism than a PBTA thing. Apocalypse World tends to promote drilling down as much as is narratively interesting and no more. Okay, then  let's say it's dex.
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Aug 18, 2018 03:20
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Xelkelvos posted:WotC did a lot to really define what the colors represent. There's a few gaps, I think, that aren't represented by any color (other than working with Artifice), but that's usually solved by finding something similar that is covered and stretching it. The other side, which is more interesting is where colors overlap and how it's possible to do the same things, but under different methods and end goals. This sounds a lot like approaches in fate accelerated. And going back to my earlier post about dw, it's mostly rolling damage and hp. For enemies I got around it buy just abstracting away hp from monsters and using debilities as a work around for consequences for players. Defy danger and the lack of non combat moves was also an issue. It didn't seem right to use parley when trying to fast talk not currently hostile people. One thing I really like about dw is the volume of awesome and especially that they differ from the standard fighter, mage, thief standards . I think I have everything gnome ever put out. One change I did, and I'm not sure if it's just me miss-remembering the rule, or if I got it from here, was that I let the players spout lore, not me. On a 10+ their lore is true, on a partial, a part of what they said is in some way not true. With fellowship, is there a way to do more of a sandbox style game, or is it always played in opposition to some big bad?
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Aug 19, 2018 16:30
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Pollyanna posted:Yeah XP isn’t that great and HP i haven’t run face-first into yet so I don’t recall what the problem with it is. Is it just the 1hp fine, 0hp dead thing? This response is a bit late, but personally the main problem with HP is the randomness of damage. If nothing else, damage clocks just tell you that you can take five or six actual solid hits until something goes down. You can't do that with HP in Dungeon World given the extreme variance of damage dice, and rolling to see if you got brought down to 11/12 HP or 4/12 HP just isn't as connected to the fiction as rolling to see if that hit jarred your gun out of your hand in other PBTA games. EDIT: Demon_Corsair posted:With fellowship, is there a way to do more of a sandbox style game, or is it always played in opposition to some big bad? There needs to be some kind of big bad encroaching threat you're acting against. You can get abstract with it and you don't need to be 100% fighting against said encroaching threat at all times, but the entire structure of the game as it currently stands is built around having some kind of overlord and their evil minions. Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 17:27
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Fellowship is very sandboxy, though. The potatoes of the game is traveling to different communities and gaining Fellowship with them, making your party more powerful. The players are generally at the helm as to where and what they want to do unless you present them with a big red button that says "KILL OVERLORD" (a la Lord of the Rings).
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Aug 20, 2018 04:55
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It probably wouldn't be exceptionally hard to replace the Overlord with some sort of nebulous "powers of darkness" that are causing bad stuff to happen. The Overlord has armies and generals that attack friendly towns, grab powerful places and objects, and generally cause havoc; just make those things the result of various independent bad guys being bad for no reason (instead of one Big Bad Guy with a Big Bad Plan) and you've got every D&D game ever. You'd probably want to rewrite the Overlord sheet, and it'd certainly lose something in the process since one of the coolest things about Fellowship is the players' relationships and interactions with the Overlord himself, but you could do it.
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Aug 20, 2018 05:44
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There's nothing to say that the Overlord can't be some nebulous force of nature or something, but to do something more complex like a war between multiple nations where there's no clear bad guy requires a bit of tinkering. Multiple Overlords is one option and one I want to try out at a future point after getting some DMing of Fellowship base under my belt.
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Aug 20, 2018 15:52
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xiw posted:The other biggest problem for me with DW is the damage rolls - they're super swingy and can lead to drawn-out anticlimatic fights if you roll a lot of 1s and especially if the opponents have armor. Rolling 10+ to hack and slash and then 1 damage gets really old fast. Sure you can go creative and bypass hp etc but it would be nice if the base 'fight monsters with weapons' move was smoother. Just change damage dice to harm. Makes the fighter a much better class.
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Aug 21, 2018 19:18
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Golden Bee posted:Just change damage dice to harm. Makes the fighter a much better class.
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Aug 21, 2018 19:22
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Especially since the AW standard is that most NPCs are seriously messed up at 1 harm and probably dead at 2-3.
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Aug 21, 2018 19:34
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Golden Bee posted:Just change damage dice to harm. Makes the fighter a much better class. wow This would have totally changed DW for me, back when I wanted it to work.
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Aug 21, 2018 19:39
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Odd question to just pop in with, but here we go. I was reading the Dugron World thread and noticed in the OP that there are in fact released adventures. My question, how does that work with PbtA? Since its player driven, as soon as the players decide they don't want to follow the adventure anymore, it's out the window. Is Dungeon World a fundamentally different beast then other PbtA or am I missing something obvious?
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Aug 23, 2018 21:03
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OscarDiggs posted:Odd question to just pop in with, but here we go. Well, yes. You're missing that if Wisher rants in the public square about an ominous pink wave and the PCs collectively say "lol gently caress that we're gonna smuggle yam bars" the ominous pink wave doesn't somehow stop coming. It's the same way with adventures. They're basically a bunch of predrawn threats and notes and relevant moves. Sure, the PCs are free to bug out. They just have to live with the consequences.
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Aug 23, 2018 21:42
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OscarDiggs posted:Odd question to just pop in with, but here we go. I've run a lot of Dungeon World, including a few pre-made adventures. The good ones provide you the parts of an adventure that don't rely on players making a particular choice (besides, as above, "nah, not doing this lol"). Things like fronts/threats, npc profiles, nice maps, detailed settings, interesting monster and location moves for the DM to make. As always, quality varies, and so there are some which are old d&d-style, and just assume that players will follow the obvious quest path.
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Aug 24, 2018 00:26
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Thank you both for clearing that up.
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Aug 24, 2018 11:50
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Here’s a dumb question: I’m mocking up a first draft of a system using the Monsterhearts guy’s simple template. In it he has you create character archetypes with short phrases summating what they do. My question is about character moves. Iirc from Apocalypse World, you’re given a list of moves to choose from as a player, but the template has players creating three of their own moves from the phrases. Are these just two different approaches to the material or am I missing something? The former puts more work on the designer (me) but seems less messy. I kept wanting to run a post-industrial “secret history” historical fantasy game in the Carnivale / Last Call vein but the vibe of Unknown Armies rubbed me the wrong way. Figured brewing my own PbtA was a surer bet and less messy (I’m sure I’ll be proven wrong there).
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Sep 4, 2018 20:36
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Basic Chunnel posted:Here’s a dumb question: I’m mocking up a first draft of a system using the Monsterhearts guy’s simple template. In it he has you create character archetypes with short phrases summating what they do. Simple World is intended to be built out collaboratively in play. If you don't want to do that, don't do that.
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Sep 4, 2018 20:44
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I always thought Act Under Fire was to just be capable of doing something in a dangerous situation, with nothing about that something succeeding or having good results.
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Sep 4, 2018 20:50
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hyphz posted:I always thought Act Under Fire was to just be capable of doing something in a dangerous situation, with nothing about that something succeeding or having good results.
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Sep 4, 2018 23:18
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A friend said he’d like to be in a campaign setting where fast food mascots like the Burger King control the land and the PCs are up-and-coming mascots trying to make a name for themselves in the fast food empire. PbtA seems like a great way to attempt this, but I don’t know which game would be the best for characters trying to claim power and territory while outmaneovering the Grimace and fleeing Colonel Sanders’ cavalry. Blades comes to mind, but would need a good amount of tweaking. Any suggestions?
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Sep 7, 2018 22:57
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BetterWeirdthanDead posted:A friend said he’d like to be in a campaign setting where fast food mascots like the Burger King control the land and the PCs are up-and-coming mascots trying to make a name for themselves in the fast food empire. Spirit of '77?
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Sep 7, 2018 23:48
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BetterWeirdthanDead posted:A friend said he’d like to be in a campaign setting where fast food mascots like the Burger King control the land and the PCs are up-and-coming mascots trying to make a name for themselves in the fast food empire. Apocalypse World seems like the best choice May I present Exhibit A 
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Sep 8, 2018 00:16
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Hello folks! It's been a hot minute since I posted about my PBTA hack in this thread, but I have some big news. Impulse Drive is live now on Kickstarter! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1743149756/impulse-drive Impulse Drive is a space opera roleplaying game about Misfits and Spaceships, using the Powered By The Apocalypse engine, popularized by games like Apocalypse World, Monsterhearts, Dungeon World, and Masks. Play as a crew of volatile, bombastic scoundrels and troublemakers as they navigate dangerous situations involving deadly environments, untrustworthy NPCs, and strange aliens. This campaign will raise the funds to pay some very skilled professionals familiar with RPG design and Kickstarter funded publishing and turn Impulse Drive into a fully realized Print on Demand book, printed and distributed through Drivethu RPG. Impulse Drive is rules complete. If you want to check the game out before backing, the Preview version of Impulse Drive is available through Drivethru now. This link will always have an art-free version of the most up to date rules available as Pay What You Want, so that people who cannot afford to buy the game can still play. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/190933/Impulse-Drive-Preview I also wanted to say thanks to all the folks who have given me feedback on Impulse Drive specifically, but also for the design discussion in this thread that helped develop the game. Thanks everybody!
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Sep 9, 2018 23:16
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madadric posted:Hello folks! It's been a hot minute since I posted about my PBTA hack in this thread, but I have some big news. Good luck to you, bro. I hope it all works out for you. Threw you 50 AUS for the hardcover. Hope you make your goal! I'd cross post this in the Kickstarter Thread. Also, apparently, 50 AUS is only 35 USD.
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Sep 10, 2018 02:39
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Covok posted:Good luck to you, bro. I hope it all works out for you. Threw you 50 AUS for the hardcover. Hope you make your goal! I'd cross post this in the Kickstarter Thread. Thanks for the backing and the advice! I'll throw it in there.
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Sep 10, 2018 03:12
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Hello, I have another question for the thread. How do you make PbtA characters unique? Taking AW as an example, the battlebabe playbook has a set of moves unique to it. But they're still going to be the same moves no matter which game the battlebabe appears in. So what makes the battlebabe I make and play separate and different from one anyone else makes and plays? Or is that lack of uniqueness the point?
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Sep 13, 2018 23:40
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OscarDiggs posted:Hello, I have another question for the thread. Moves, look, actions, crossbook moves, personality...
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Sep 13, 2018 23:51
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Golden Bee posted:Moves, look, actions, crossbook moves, personality... Moves are all the same surely? And actions come from moves. Now I've never played a game of AW in my life so if you tell me you can take move from other books at the start, I can believe you. My only PbtA experience is two and a half sessions ish of Masks, and with that you couldn't start with crossbook moves. Is personality that big of a differential when you've all got the same moveset? A battlebabe could do the thing angrily in one game and sadly in another, but it's ultimately the same thing. I have no idea what a battlebabe does, just that it exists.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:06
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OscarDiggs posted:
what.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:10
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Mr. Maltose posted:what. I mean, it's text so it's like I spoke to fast and you misheard me... Is battlebabe a poor example here? It's literally the only class I've heard of from AW.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:15
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