|
Jose posted:i was told i think its great because its good for london  Edit: That was a bad page snipe. This is my first election abroad and this is the Swedish Liberal message, it is extra bad. 
Dirk Pitt has issued a correction as of 20:38 on Aug 16, 2018 |
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
brits out
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
The Radicals, the Italian liberal center party, is all over the freedom of movement thing, to the point they're explicitly in favor of brain drain. They frame it in terms of individual freedom to pursuit opportunities, but I can't help but feel that it's a form of giving up on depressed countries and letting them get even worse. And that's why I didn't vote for them (not that anyone votes for them)
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 22:53
|
|
|
The reason that ending freedom of movement and abolishment of the EU is the domain of the right is that the mainstream left abandoned the workers in favour of identity based social democracy. When you are poor but the rich centre-left people are telling you to shut the gently caress up and keep doing what has led to your poverty while the far right is saying 'if we kick out all the foreigners it will become good again' why the gently caress do you think people go and vote for the people addressing their concerns, even if the solutions they propose won't work, have never worked and are loving horrifying. Fixing the problems with the EU starts with removing the German lunatics who think inflation is the most dangerous problem to ever occur and deliberately cause deflation by preference. The problem is there is literally no way to get rid of them because that's how the EU works.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 00:42
|
|
|
Prav posted:didn't we already have a thread for the british to be horrible in this is eurothread and brexit hasnt happened yet
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 01:01
|
|
|
mila kunis posted:this is eurothread and brexit hasnt happened yet the echr should protect us from coohoolin's posting then
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 01:21
|
|
|
Prav posted:the echr should protect us from coohoolin's posting then gently caress off my posting is decent
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 01:25
|
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:note if you talk about the brits in here you will be probated. this thread respects the democratic will of the british people to brexit
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 02:33
|
|
|
Nvm
twoday has issued a correction as of 11:16 on Aug 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
Often Abbreviated posted:So you're not going to ask any of them what they think of losing their language, then? They seem pretty happy to you, and it's not a big deal to you, so you can't possible understand how a people who had to smuggle books into their own country in order to keep their language alive might care about that? I immigrated to a country in the EU I wasn’t born in, learned the language and culture, and I’m happy I did. It’s made my life better not only materially but I also feel richer as a human being. And it goes the other way too, I know people from this country who hated it here, moved to South America, and say their life is better there. I know Brits who immigrated here and as soon as the Brexit vote happened they took the language exam needed to become naturalized here, because they value being able to live here and move around freely. Freedom of movement is something I treasure, as do my friends. Being an expat isn’t the same life as staying at home, but for some people, that’s what they want. While living here I have not only made friends with natives but with other expats in similar shoes. Because of that, I know people from countries all over the EU. In this way, moving to this country has made me connected to many others, through both experience and personal relations. This wouldn’t have been possible in the archaic walled-up Europe you dream about, but I’m extremely thankful that it is. Some of them moved here for economic opportunities but turned around and went home anyway, because they liked it better there and they were free to return. I’m not Polish, but I’m happy that there is a Polish store in this city where I can buy amazing pork and handmade pierogis and herbata, and I am happy that I went to Lithuania on vacation. And kids don’t have to lose their languages. I know a couple from 2 different EU countries who met here and had kids, and their kids speak 4 languages now (the mother’s, the father’s, the local one, and English which the parents use to communicate with each other.) Austerity is bullshit, I agree. Here, look at Portugal: http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/portugals-economic-recovery-how-much-came-from-ditching-austerity/ They rejected many suggested austerity proposals and their economy has been doing great. That, in part, because of investment plans implemented by the European Commission under Juncker in 2014. Pro-austerity isn’t the only force in the EU. Germany isn’t the only country that decides things in the EU. It’s not black and white; there are an astounding number of forces at play. Greece got hosed, sure, but look at some of the Eastern States: https://twitter.com/aleipold/status/1029328383967223808 twoday has issued a correction as of 04:31 on Aug 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 03:47
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:They frame it in terms of individual freedom to pursuit opportunities, They're right though? My country doesn't own me and I should be able to leave if I want to. Also, abolish immigration restrictions.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 03:59
|
|
|
Dirk Pitt posted:I'd propose the euro sucks and that because we live in a poo poo world with poo poo borders, sovereign states should have their own currencies they can control. The best thing the nordics have done is dodge the Euro. gently caress that poo poo. But you're way too busy blathering on with Tory propaganda. You're absofuckinglutely right the euro sucks and believe me I'd much rather be talking about that. Understanding the economic disaster area it has created is what convinced me the EU as a whole was bullshit. You don't have to take my word for it either, any economist who hasn't drank the neoliberal kool-aid will tell you it's a disaster and the ones who can connect economics back to politics can tell you it's a disaster by design. Unfortunately, posting on that subject in any detail tends to make certain people Extremely Not Mad, and attracts a great many posts along the lines of "tory racist boomer lol" and a fair few probations. You can see in this thread certain posters lining up to support austerity, brain drain, youth drain, rent extraction and disaster capitalism as Actually Good and Cool because this poo poo has broken people's brains. Take Freedom of Movement, as explained by this wonderful character: twoday posted:liberalism.txt Isn't the choice provided by Freedom of Movement wonderful? Isn't it so life-affirming and multicultural? Well, no. It's the exact same justification Americans use for wealth-gated education and healthcare. "People should have maximum choice in their healthcare provider/charter school!" as if the decision between paying $200,000 a year for diabetes medication and death is any kind of choice at all. Or the decision between staying in a poor country with no opportunities or fleeing to a rich one. If you starve someone for a month then offer them pissy cornflakes you don't get to pat yourself on the back that they "chose" to eat pissy cornflakes. People like twoday look at the trail of human wreckage left by Hurricane Disaster Capitalism as it stretches from the Baltic states, down to the Black Sea, where it turns a hard left and tears across the Mediterranean coast, and think "Oh good. Now some of these people can flee to my country and open a shop for me. Only the young, healthy ones, though". The Galaxy Brain take of "People should be able to live where they want" glides over the coercion inherent in the system like an oil slick. The idea that people might be interested in living someone other than the rich countries simply doesn't occur. That in a more equitable system people could actually live where they wanted without the threat of lifetime penury held over them by the financial class. You don't think maybe people in Poland or Lithuania might be curious to see what it's like to live in Greece? But it's funny, you don't see any Polish shops there. It must be because they "chose" to live in Britain. tl;dr: The systematic looting of the European periphery to enrich a tiny financial class and the forcing of tens of millions into grinding poverty and despair is not worth a slightly higher chance of Coohoolin getting his dick touched by a desperate Lithuanian. Often Abbreviated has issued a correction as of 19:34 on Aug 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 18:19
|
|
|
Lithuanian communities are widespread in Scotland dating back to the original emigrations to the USA- lots of them only got as far as Edinburgh. EDIT: Anyway, if you're really concerned about the way the EU deals with its periphery, which is a valid concern, Brexit is the worst way about it. The absolute shitshow of Brexit is making other Eurosceptic parties rethink their positions and rein in their calls for leaving. If Corbyn gets in, which is a growing probability, you've just cost the EU a left-wing government with a fair amount of economic and historic weight and presence that could have pushed for reform. As it stands, the EU in its status quo will get a support boost, and a Corbyn government will have no means to affect anything in how the EU is run. But I guess you get your white British communities back from "desperate Lithuanians" you idiot racist gently caress. Coohoolin has issued a correction as of 19:36 on Aug 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 19:24
|
|
|
The true solution is neither accepting neo-liberal policies leading to wealth transfer and brain drains, nor a return too old wall like nation borders. A Federalist Europe with common labor standards, immediate investment in the poorer periphery, ending austerity, EU wide minimum wages... The solution is to raise countries to the same level. Given that unlikely to happen given the current eu leadership, and with the rise of far right eu skeptic parties all over the union, the EU is going to die. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 19:44
|
|
|
White Rock posted:The true solution is neither accepting neo-liberal policies leading to wealth transfer and brain drains, nor a return too old wall like nation borders. I agree. White Rock posted:Given that unlikely to happen given the current eu leadership, and with the rise of far right eu skeptic parties all over the union, the EU is going to die. God willing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 19:46
|
|
|
Often Abbreviated posted:He's Right. Fun fact: People in the turbofucked austerity countries aren't looking up to Brexiteers with starry eyes, they're wondering why the spoiled rich baby with the special privileges is having a louder tantrum than any of them, and making an even worse mess of things in the process. Brexit Brit "Leftist": I know you shall follow my lead my dear wog comrades! Greece: Σάλτα και γαμήσου! Grape has issued a correction as of 20:02 on Aug 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 19:57
|
|
|
Grape posted:Fun fact: People in the turbofucked austerity countries aren't looking up to Brexiteers with starry eyes, they're wondering why the spoiled rich baby with the special privileges is having a louder tantrum than any of them, and making an even worse mess of things in the process. Yes?  What's your point, caller?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
Brexit is strengthening the EU status quo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 20:04
|
|
|
Often Abbreviated posted:Yes? People in the hosed countries simultaneously curse the EU/Germany, and also Brexit. Makes you think. Also Malta and Cyprus are insanely stoked to have the economically important British tourism/expat communities get torn asunder and messed up by Brexit. You are the true people's hero of the periphery.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 20:04
|
|
|
Why are you all talking about Brexit, I thought there was a rule about that in this thread? And how does everyone in Europe hating me make the EU any better?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 20:07
|
|
|
AlexanderCA posted:They're right though? Only if the individual should take priority over the family, extended family, community, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 20:07
|
|
|
The Baltic states had closed borders during Soviet days, as even moving within the USSR required a national passport, people were dreaming of living in Western Europe, or at least East Germany. The net effect of being part of the EU has increased standards of living in Eastern Europe, even with the migration you are so concerned about. Estonia in particular has become a tech hub. As economies improve economic migrants also return.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
twoday posted:The Baltic states had closed borders during Soviet days, as even moving within the USSR required a national passport, people were dreaming of living in Western Europe, or at least East Germany. The net effect of being part of the EU has increased standards of living in Eastern Europe, even with the migration you are so concerned about. Estonia in particular has become a tech hub. As economies improve economic migrants also return. You're deeply confused. I'll let someone else explain it because there seems to be some strange glitch at play when I explain it myself: White Rock posted:The true solution is neither accepting neo-liberal policies leading to wealth transfer and brain drains, nor a return too old wall like nation borders. edit: I didn't even notice you posted the exact same "Estonian Tech Boom" bullshit Coohoolin was posting yesterday! To recap: The Estonian economy is still smaller than it was pre 2007. They joined the EU in 2004. Their growth had gently caress all to do with the EU. Their stagnation since is entirely an EU product. Often Abbreviated has issued a correction as of 23:02 on Aug 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 22:44
|
|
|
twoday posted:The Baltic states had closed borders during Soviet days, as even moving within the USSR required a national passport, people were dreaming of living in Western Europe, or at least East Germany. The net effect of being part of the EU has increased standards of living in Eastern Europe, even with the migration you are so concerned about. Estonia in particular has become a tech hub. As economies improve economic migrants also return. They dont. they really really dont. oh boy , do they ever not return But never mind that free movement is basically a way for rich countries to get highly skilled professionals and cheap labour whitout having to pay for their upbringing, healthcare or education. Those southern and eastern countries they are all moochers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 23:14
|
|
|
twoday posted:The Baltic states had closed borders during Soviet days, as even moving within the USSR required a national passport, people were dreaming of living in Western Europe, or at least East Germany. The net effect of being part of the EU has increased standards of living in Eastern Europe, even with the migration you are so concerned about. Estonia in particular has become a tech hub. As economies improve economic migrants also return. i wouldn't hold up the baltic states as a model for anything. also every shitass podunk country/state/city is trying to market itself as a "tech hub" in this garbage era we live in mila kunis has issued a correction as of 23:32 on Aug 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 23:29
|
|
|
how do you improve your economy if all the people who are supposed to improve it have hosed off to britain or france or germany or wherever
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 23:30
|
|
|
not a cult posted:how do you improve your economy if all the people who are supposed to improve it have hosed off to britain or france or germany or wherever remittances and being tax dodging havens. note; this may not prevent finance capital from raping your country regardless. blyth had a good writeup on the baltics i'll try to find it
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
mila kunis posted:remittances and being tax dodging havens. note; this may not prevent finance capital from raping your country regardless. blyth had a good writeup on the baltics i'll try to find it here it is, warning: long https://pastebin.com/yRq95HNA
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 23:36
|
|
|
What does the acronym REBLL stand for?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 23:59
|
|
|
CountFosco posted:What does the acronym REBLL stand for? I'm guessing Romania Estonia Bulgaria Latvia Lithuania. A clean sweep from the Baltic to the Black seas. edit: Minus Belarus and Ukraine of course because they're not in the EU. Often Abbreviated has issued a correction as of 00:04 on Aug 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 00:01
|
|
|
Current UN secretary and world's most useless man Antonio Guterres oversaw the euro transition in portugal, as he was the PM at the time. When he signed all the paperwork and dotted all the i's , he famously said "blessed euro,we live and die by it." and everyone just assume he was being glib.But since he was part of the workgroup that was responsible for Portugal's EU membership bid since the 70's , you can bet your rear end he knew exactly what he was talking about.everyone inside knew, that the euro was a clusterfuck and that it would loving burn us alive if it ever went tits up, or even had a slight hickup. 2002 rolls around and our gdp growth flatlined, stuff that costed 25 cents in 2001 costed 50 cents by the end of 2002, while wages stayed the same. Someone made out like bandits. It just wasnt the little people. Look at this loving thing when 2002 rolls around  Euro shock was real, but while important countries like france and germany got to break the stability pact multiple times to adjust to it and never even got a slap on the wrist, plucky little portugal abided by all the rules, and got turbofucked in the aftermath of 2008. Meanwhile all the guys that were saying that the euro was a bad idea are ignored, because 1) lol its the commies saying it and 2) they have a annoying tendency to be right so lets ignore them while we stick our head in the sand and our thumbs up our rear end. Then 2008-2011 arrives, a poorly prepared country shits the bed through no fault of their own, and the guys we called for help, including the imf and the EU proceed to gently caress it a 1000 times worse because they are mouth breathing retards that cant even work an excel sheet gently caress the euro. gently caress the EU. gently caress these people. The guillotine is too kind for them. Antifa Poltergeist has issued a correction as of 00:11 on Aug 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 00:07
|
|
|
The impoverishment of Portugal is a small price to pay for the guarantee of the end of war in Europe. Persevere, brave Portuguese; know that through your suffering, a future of German tanks rolling into France is averted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 00:59
|
|
|
Antifa Poltergeist posted:gently caress the euro. gently caress the EU. gently caress these people. The guillotine is too kind for them. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 01:31
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Only if the individual should take priority over the family, extended family, community, etc. loving right it should. Where does this insane notion come from that people can't leave because their family might not like it? That's some mafia poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
not a cult posted:how do you improve your economy if all the people who are supposed to improve it have hosed off to britain or france or germany or wherever Clearly the freedom of movement granted by joining the EU encourages people to leave their countries, that's why non-EU countries such as Bosnia & Herzegovina, Moldova, Montenegro, Albania, and Macedonia don't suffer from this problem  
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 02:51
|
|
|
Antifa Poltergeist posted:Current UN secretary and world's most useless man Antonio Guterres oversaw the euro transition in portugal, as he was the PM at the time. When he signed all the paperwork and dotted all the i's , he famously said "blessed euro,we live and die by it." and everyone just assume he was being glib.But since he was part of the workgroup that was responsible for Portugal's EU membership bid since the 70's , you can bet your rear end he knew exactly what he was talking about.everyone inside knew, that the euro was a clusterfuck and that it would loving burn us alive if it ever went tits up, or even had a slight hickup. I think that the economic crisis proved that the euro was pushed too hard, far and wide and was a direct contributor to the economic problems in Greece, Spain, and Portugal, and it's bad that it is mandatory for all incoming countries to adopt it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 02:59
|
|
|
It's not mandatory. It has never been mandatory. Christ.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 03:06
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:It's not mandatory. It has never been mandatory. Christ. All EU members which have joined the bloc since the signing of the Maastricht treaty in 1992 are legally obliged to adopt the euro once they meet the criteria, since the terms of their accession treaties make the provisions on the euro binding on them. Christ. The 2018 Convergence Report: Review of Member States' progress towards euro adoption “All Member States, except the United Kingdom and Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. The UK and Denmark are therefore not covered by the report. Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-out arrangements in the Maastricht Treaty.” twoday has issued a correction as of 03:18 on Aug 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 03:09
|
|
|
If I were Scottish this would be of particular concern to me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 03:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:55 |
|
|
twoday posted:Clearly the freedom of movement granted by joining the EU encourages people to leave their countries, that's why non-EU countries such as Bosnia & Herzegovina, Moldova, Montenegro, Albania, and Macedonia don't suffer from this problem this would be a valid comment if I said or implied that EU membership was the sole reason for emigration but I didn't so you can gently caress off with your dumb pictures
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2018 03:24
|
|