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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I mean I thought my question was kind of clear. What’s the difference between the ancient phalanx and a medieval/early modern pike wall?
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Aug 19, 2018 01:06
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Those tankette SPGs are pretty cute. 
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Aug 19, 2018 01:39
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Ensign Expendable posted:Semovente L40 da 47/32 I'd like to hear about these, please
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Aug 19, 2018 01:52
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HEY GUNS posted:i don't know a whole lot about greek combat so i can't help you very much Well neither do historians really.
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Aug 19, 2018 02:38
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Kafouille posted:What does he get wrong ? I jumped around a bit and found a bit where he omits quite a bit of important stuff, but he does explain the very basics of the Monroe effect, and that is the main idea of HEAT rounds, the liner is after all optional and not exactly universal during WWII, even if omitting it degrades performance pretty badly. It's not exactly in depth but it's reasonable given that it's really outside of the topic of his channel. In that recoilless AT rifle video he describes HEAT penetration as a thermal effect, which it is not. The liner only gets hot because it gets deformed by the explosion doing mechanical work on it, and it doesn’t reach a very high temperature at all relative to the melting point of the armor. The HEAT jet doesn’t melt through or burn through armor or anything like that, it’s just a large mechanical pressure exerted on a small section of armor which deforms plastically and yields.
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Aug 19, 2018 04:27
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I mean I thought my question was kind of clear. What’s the difference between the ancient phalanx and a medieval/early modern pike wall? Probs the biggest difference is that most Greek phalanxes were just city-state militias. There are medieval city-state militias too, but I guess you want to compare them to Hegel's guys? Mercenaries are professionals, they presumably train as a unit and poo poo. Ancient Greeks definitely didn't, because they all had day jobs. The Macedonians had a professional army, they had a formal system of officers for each "block" of phalangites. I've seen images which label individual layers of the unit as different ranks, but I can't find it now and it may have been a parade formation. Classical scholarship always seems to be in flux about the military. Also, theres like 1,000 years of Greek history before 200AD that isn't very uniform. By the post-Alexander era, the Greeks are forming lots of mercenary units themselves, they're just small and weak compared to big forces like Rome, or Parthia. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 05:47
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Phanatic posted:In that recoilless AT rifle video Oh duh, I was looking at the Bazooka video trying to find what you meant earlier and was pretty confused 
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Aug 19, 2018 08:13
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A while back, I was at a dinner with a very prominent Germanist and brought up that I'd just finished reading Tim Snyder's [i]Black Earth: Holocaust as History and Warning[i]. The Germanist was not a fan of Snyder's work, to say the least. What I'm wondering is whether any other good reads have been written recently in the field of comparative genocide studies, particularly readings which look at genocides or ethnic cleansings through lenses of either implementation science or systems dynamics.
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Aug 19, 2018 11:32
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So you're asking for a manual?
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Aug 19, 2018 11:37
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I sense a business opportunity for the Idiots Guide To: series.
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Aug 19, 2018 11:51
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Probs the biggest difference is that most Greek phalanxes were just city-state militias. There are medieval city-state militias too, but I guess you want to compare them to Hegel's guys? Mercenaries are professionals, they presumably train as a unit and poo poo. Ancient Greeks definitely didn't, because they all had day jobs. Herodotus mentions that the Spartans drilled enough that they could feign retreats and swing around to encircle over-extended enemies. Thucydides also talks about the fact that they are the best-trained and bravest of the Greeks. This is NOT to get all, uh, Spart-webo, however. The Spartans were by far more similar to the rest of the Greeks than different, and a vast majority of their time was spent directing slaves at agriculture, feasting, and playing games. They were not all HSLD spec-ops of the ancient world.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:09
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poisonpill posted:Spart-webo
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Aug 19, 2018 15:15
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Siivola posted:Molon Laboo There's another one that the 300 fans ruined. The Greek declension there is the subjunctive passive, which makes it kind of untranslatable into ENglish, but it's more "Well, then they may have them  " than "Grr, come and take it, boys!  ". I mean, the word "laconic" literally comes from the Spartan people's names (Lacademoneans), they were clever and poetic in their taciturnity.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:23
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I tried to find out what the original word for "If. " was, until I realized absolutely nobody would actually get it.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:28
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My Imaginary GF posted:A while back, I was at a dinner with a very prominent Germanist and brought up that I'd just finished reading Tim Snyder's Black Earth: Holocaust as History and Warning. The Germanist was not a fan of Snyder's work, to say the least. I don't know about that last bit, but Hitler's Beneficiaries goes deep on how the redistribution of Jewish property helped get buy in from the general population. Wages of destruction isn't narrowly about the Holocaust, but it goes hard into how the Nazi economy ran. The two compliment each other really well. Browning also gets into the how and why of the Holocaust coming about as a phenomena, which gets into implementation indirectly. A younger historian, Beorn, also has a pair of books that might be of use to you. The Holocaust in Eastern Europe is more of an overview, but he gets into the way that policies developed and changed over time. I haven't read this one yet, but its been well received. Beorn also has one on how the Wehrmacht, specifically, orchestrated its involvement. Marching into Darkness. That also might get at what you're wondering about. It's also a great slam dunk on the Clean Wehrmacht. Out of curiosity who were you chatting with?
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Aug 19, 2018 15:44
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Can you say what you mean by system dynamics and how that works? I ask because I'm thinking of doing my second big research project on early modern military/financial social networks.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:47
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poisonpill posted:There's another one that the 300 fans ruined. The Greek declension there is the subjunctive passive, which makes it kind of untranslatable into ENglish, but it's more "Well, then they may have them I first read it translated as "Come and get them.", which still works, and as I recall was even what they used in the movie, but was apparently to subtle for bros and rednecks to follow, so it morphed into "take".
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Aug 19, 2018 16:02
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Kafouille posted:The Sprut was designed with the intent of having as capable a tank as possible that could still be airdropped, it was built on a VDV requirement. It has no armor because it has to be carried by a plane, not because armor doesn't work. It's really quite similar to the Sheridan in concept even if the execution is substantially different. Just drop the armor from another plane, assemble/weld it on the ground :v Slim Jim Pickens posted:phalangites Is the 'G' pronounced like .gif or like .gif? HEY GUNS posted:Can you say what you mean by system dynamics and how that works? I ask because I'm thinking of doing my second big research project on early modern military/financial social networks. That sounds incredibly interesting. Corsair Pool Boy fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 17:08
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Well neither do historians really.
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Aug 19, 2018 17:18
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HEY GUNS posted:if there is a specific thing you want to know about i can tell you the pikes answer for that and someone else might be able to tell you the greek answer How does pikemans makes piking?
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Aug 19, 2018 17:27
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Corsair Pool Boy posted:How does pikemans makes piking?
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Aug 19, 2018 18:06
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Rule #1 of Pikeclub is don't talk about Pikeclub. Rule #2 is also own or bring a pike with you.
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Aug 19, 2018 19:23
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I have finally been released from the bad posting gulag. I really liked tank destroyer chat.
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Aug 19, 2018 19:34
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Who would make the pikes? Does your company or regiment sort of procure them and have a reserve or does each guy have to source his own? Do you have camp followers that make them? Do they haul the parts around and put them together as needed or do you have a wagon full of spares? Whatyou do if you're in a region without ash trees and you need more? Would most towns have a blacksmith or whatever that makes them? Like, I know they're solid and sturdy, but soldiers are pretty good at breaking stuff.
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Aug 19, 2018 19:51
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What are the key differences between a tank destroyer and a medieval/early modern arquebusier?
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Aug 19, 2018 20:03
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One destroys tanks, the other destroys tankards (of ale).
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Aug 19, 2018 20:50
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I mean I thought my question was kind of clear. What’s the difference between the ancient phalanx and a medieval/early modern pike wall? I would like to comment on this a bit, despite knowing practically nothing about either era. In my eyes the basic concept doesn't change much over time, that you have a bunch of guys with ridiculously long pointy sticks and you try to bring them at the enemy in a formation that strikes a compromise somewhere between shock power and maneuverability. What differs the most is everything else in the battlefield and how it reflects to pikeman equipment and tactics. The phalanx faced sling bullets and arrows, so they carried armour and shields. Early modern pikemen faced musket balls and you don't really have any meaningful protection against that. In the same vein cavalry, light infantry, archery and artillery had changed. So while in both eras the idea is to use a polearm to make shish-kebab of your opponent, the rest of the equation has changed and this forces smaller or greater changes on the pikemen. Especially when you look at the whole picture, not only the individual formation.
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Aug 19, 2018 21:12
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Corsair Pool Boy posted:Who would make the pikes? Does your company or regiment sort of procure them and have a reserve or does each guy have to source his own? Do you have camp followers that make them? Do they haul the parts around and put them together as needed or do you have a wagon full of spares? Whatyou do if you're in a region without ash trees and you need more? Would most towns have a blacksmith or whatever that makes them? Cuirassier companies have armorers but nobody else does, so I think the only thing that's getting repaired in the field is plate armor. But I actually know almost nothing about that. It's why I want my next project to be on fiscal/military stuff and supply, because I don't know as much as I want to now And they're not actually very sturdy! Modern ones are thicker than the originals (and heavier--sorry Siivola) so they won't break since paying for replacements is rear end. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 21:14
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HEY GUNS posted:In English records I've seen orders for pikes right next to orders for muskets, so the same people who make the firearms, or similar people. They would be made in batches and transported with the regiment. You source them like you source other weapons. The regiment you study - did they keep lots of spare weapons in the wagon train? I know actual combat was not a frequent thing like it is today, but if you got stuck into a siege or a series of meeting engagements or something, I would assume you have extra bows/pikes/muskets since repairing things on the spot wouldn't always be feasible - a pike square without pikes (or a pike for every other guy) would be pretty vulnerable to heavy cavalry. ONE MAN GETS THE PIKE, THE OTHER MAN GETS A PRAYER AND FOLLOWS HIM. WHEN THE MAN WITH THE PIKE GETS KILLED, THE MAN WHO FOLLOWS PICKS UP THE PIKE AND THRUSTS
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Aug 19, 2018 21:23
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Corsair Pool Boy posted:The regiment you study - did they keep lots of spare weapons in the wagon train? It's difficult to tell from sources relating to this regiment because the Swiss were angry about them going through Switzerland to get to/from Italy so while they were in Swiss territory all the weapons had to be in the wagons anyway edit: from things Gustavus Adolphus wrote I am pretty sure that at least some units traveled armed in case things might lead to a meeting engagement. The reason I know this is that most of the time only one musketeer out of every ten would have their match lit while traveling and lighting everyone else's took so long GA interspersed some archers with the rest of his missle troops. I still don't know about replacement equipment before battles though. (After battles you scavenge the field.) edit 2: When units start running out of money cavalrymen will pawn their pistols, but that's not their only weapon. When the regiment I study deserted they sold their weapons, but they were all leaving. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 21:37
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The Aerogavin was a good start, but we need to go deeper.
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Aug 19, 2018 22:14
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Ensign Expendable posted:The Aerogavin was a good start, but we need to go deeper. No VTOL capability? Not good enough for the marines
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Aug 19, 2018 22:21
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Fangz posted:No VTOL capability? Not good enough for the marines "In extended position, helicopter rotor may be attached" to the schnorkel.
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Aug 19, 2018 22:42
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Fangz posted:No VTOL capability? Not good enough for the marines It also needs at least six guns attached Ontos-style, and a bayonet mount.
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Aug 19, 2018 22:52
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HEY GUNS posted:I don't know, I hope so. Why'd they desert? Also, weren't your dudes Saxon? Why were they all the way out in Switzerland/Italy?
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Aug 19, 2018 22:55
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Corsair Pool Boy posted:Why'd they desert? Also, weren't your dudes Saxon? Why were they all the way out in Switzerland/Italy? This tiny offshoot of the 30yw ended in early 26, but their colonel didn't have enough money to dismiss them so they stayed in-country until mid 1627, when Wallenstein offered to bail them out if they'd enter Imperial service. But they'd had enough: while their officers were trying to take them north, half of them mutinied on the way through Switzerland, the other half near Ulm. All but six hundred of them walked off. Almost all of the stuff I've been talking about was going on in Lombardy and the Piedmont. Saxons were just the dudes involved. edit: This post only makes sense if I tell you that large chunks of northern Italy are part of the Spanish Empire, but Venice, Parma, and Savoy are allied with France HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 23:00
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13th KRRC War Diary, 19th August 1918 posted:A busy day was spent in reconnoitering in view of contemplated operations. Most of the officers and N.C.O's met the officers of a tanks Btn near HANNESCAMP for a discussion on the co-operation of infantry and tanks in the attack.        We've been at this for getting on for a year now and this is the first mention we've ever had of tanks. A bit of a reminder of where the battalion currently sits in the army structure - they're in the 111th Brigade, 37th Division, 4th Corps, 3rd Army.
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Aug 19, 2018 23:31
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HEY GUNS posted:this regiment was fighing for the king of spain, it was one of several German regiments in spanish service in1625. The Valtelline is a strategically significant mountain pass in Switzerland, and it's inhabited by both Protestants and Catholics. The Spanish finance/aid the Catholics, the french aid the Protestants. After a small upheaval Richelieu sent troops into the valleys which prompted the governor of Milan (part of the Spanish empire) to hire a bunch of German regiments, one of them my dudes. Ty, I'd just sorta assumed they were running around Germany. I know it happened and I know why, but it still amuses me when I hear about the French siding with the Protestants (and then the English with the Catholics).
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Aug 20, 2018 00:10
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Ensign Expendable posted:The Aerogavin was a good start, but we need to go deeper. A weapon to surpass METAL GEAR?!
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Aug 20, 2018 00:42
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Ensign Expendable posted:The Aerogavin was a good start, but we need to go deeper. 
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Aug 20, 2018 01:23
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